The PGA of America

[mikpga]

Everybody's Impression

Not the PGA Tour, but the PGA of America...

What is everyone's impression of the professionals which make up the PGA of America?

What could improve?

Being a member, I am curious of everyone else's opinion / thoughts...

[ryanpgm]

Mike,

 

I also would like to hear some opinions about what people think about industry professional. What is your opinion about what the PGA as an organization does for it's members and is it really worth working towards becoming a member?

[samm980]

I'm looking forward to seeing where this topic goes.

[mikpga]

It should be a fun ride...

 

As a member, I have mixed feelings...

 

I would love to see a larger commitment to becoming more effective teachers to a wide variety of golfers...

 

I love this game, and the reason I became a member was to share my passion for the game with others...

 

1. Through instruction...

2. Through playing in local events and fundraisers...

3. Through conducting outings / tournaments...

4. Through providing quality and professional fitting services...

 

Do these four items represent everyone's image of the PGA of America?

[samm980]

It should be a fun ride...

 

As a member, I have mixed feelings...

 

I would love to see a larger commitment to becoming more effective teachers to a wide variety of golfers...

 

I love this game, and the reason I became a member was to share my passion for the game with others...

 

1. Through instruction...

2. Through playing in local events and fundraisers...

3. Through conducting outings / tournaments...

4. Through providing quality and professional fitting services...

 

Do these four items represent everyone's image of the PGA of America?

 

 

It depends on the support you get from your facility and it's also dependent on the Section you reside in. I can tell you that recently going from the Southern Texas to Northern Texas has been a night and day difference. I am friends with most of the folks at the STPGA offices but I consider them lacking in a number of departments.

[ryanpgm]

A PGA professional is only as good as his facility allows him to be. I have been employed at facilities where the freedoms allowed to employees were extraordinarily minimal and almost non-existant. I do not agree with many of the ways the PGA treats the members of this esteemed organization.

[samm980]

A PGA professional is only as good as his facility allows him to be. I have been employed at facilities where the freedoms allowed to employees were extraordinarily minimal and almost non-existant. I do not agree with many of the ways the PGA treats the members of this esteemed organization.

 

 

What are some of your beefs with National?

[ryanpgm]

First off is the non-profit organization claim, although I do not have any evidence to back this up, I strongly believe it. Next is the PAT. I think that there should be something similar to this that all PGA members have to pass every 5 years or so. One of the stigma's of being a professional is that everyone is a good player, although not true, I think that a golf professional should be able to break 80 on a regular basis. Next is the MSR hours is it not enough that recent members had to go through the GPTP program, now I have to get 18 MSR hours in under a year? Good lord, I just got my certification. Since I am on the GPTP rant, I will say, why don't they teach us something a little more useful that a golf professional may use. Instead of making us take electives such as: Golf Range Management or Golf Course Design, although beneficial to some members, not even close to all, make us study issues, such as Meteorology, or however you spell the study of weather. Also, on Level 2 there was a book, Business Communications, that was not tested on. Why make future professionals spend countless hours working on a book that they will not be tested over?

[pmas93]

OK, for us that have not gone through the PGA program, what are MSR hours????

 

As far as impressions of the PGA, I can only relate to the PGA members that I have come in contact with. Honestly, I have not found many of them to be "down to earth" people. Most I have had interaction with seemed to be "too good" to interact with the general golfing public. They seem to kiss the butt of members but if you weren't one of the well off members then they tend to act like they do not have time for you. I would say I have come in contact with approximatly 50-60 members on an individual basis on more than one occasion. I would say less than 10 did not come across this way. I have even asked some of my golf buddies before if they teach a class as part of the program of how to act snooty.

I have only had interactions with 3 LPGA certified teachers and all 3 were very personable and seemed like they were very down to earth and there for the golfer.

As far as playing abilities, I have seen those that are around par on their bad days and under par on good days. I have also seen those that are in the mid 80's on a consistent basis. I understand from being around the business for a while that in actuality a true club pro's job is 90-95% business and teaching and very very little actually playing, all depending as said before, on the club in which they are employed. The jobs that allow the pro to play allot are few and far between from what I have seen here in Georgia and the guys who have them don't give them up often.

 

To sum up, I would like to see more PGA members at local facilities that are interested or at least act like they are interested in the daily fee golfer.

Hope all of that makes sense and doesn't offend anyone here.

MM

[ryanpgm]

MSR Hours = Member Service Requirement Hours, sorry for the lack of explanation in my previous post. They basically are a requirement that all PGA members must obtain in order to maintain the good standing within the organization, i.e.; Play Golf America, Teaching seminars, PGA Merchandise Expo Attendance and other things. It varies how many members have to get, but it usually is around 24. As far as the attitude amongst the industry professionals, I completly agree with your assessment. The guys that want to service the dialy fee golfer are few and far between this day and age, people want to get into the private club sector and make more "contacts."

[drew123]

I for one hate the PGA of America. It is poorly run and needs to be improved. The Flagship operation in Port St. Lucie Florida is just terrible. It is a great place but run terribly. sorry but I really hate the PGA of America.

[RNF]

All the info you seek is out there, you just have to go after it.

 

PGALinks has bascially a free 12 credits in the online ed section, so MSR credits are no problem. I have 83 as we speak.

 

Mike, I think a good PGA member is also a good manager. At least in my experience they better be if they want to keep their job. Most of all they have to be a good communicator.

 

IMO it's naive to think you can get by without being a manager. As for Golf Course Design. I've opened 2 golf courses (working on my 3rd right now) and have remodeled one. I've worked with 4 different golf course architects - yes I think that's a pretty useful class. If you work at a golf course, someday you probably will go through at minimum a remodel. As for Golf Range Management; can you please explain to me how that course could not be useful to you in your career.

 

Think about it from the owners percpective for just one minute; I am intrusting you with my facility that I have $20m invested and you can't budget or manage. What kind of assest are you to him.

or

You just teach and have an opportunity to own the range; what management skills do you possess to operate a successful range?

 

As for studying Meteorology. One class is not going to do any good. It's a pretty in-depth science. Crap, here in TX the meteorologists can't predict the weather. And they've been studying for years! IMO we should have more in-depth studies in First Aid. That is something I have used. Again I have applied myself and gone on my own to learn more. It's a far more important class than any that is given. When you see a member drop on the range with a heart attack and a month later come back to thank you it is a statisfying feeling.

 

The PGA has most of the programs, you just have to apply yourself.

[RNF]

I for one hate the PGA of America. It is poorly run and needs to be improved. The Flagship operation in Port St. Lucie Florida is just terrible. It is a great place but run terribly. sorry but I really hate the PGA of America.

 

Can you be more specific as to why you hate the PGA?

 

How specifically is it "run terrible"?

 

 

 

Most "great places" I've been, have also been well managed. That's why I asked.

[TourPro]

I can't speak for the organization itself because I simply don't know much about how it is run, but I can speak to the professionals I have dealt with. As with any profession, you have the passionate and dedicated as well as those who give the profession a bad name. At my previous home course ( a private country club ) the head professional was one of the unfriendliest, most arrogant, least helpful people I have met in this industry. He was not a good player and probably knew less about fundamentals than I did. I have met several pro's like that at country clubs and public courses alike. They don't seem the least bit interested in helping you. My only complaint is these guys should be held accountable to be knowledgable and have some playing ability. I interviewed one instructor who claimed to be a scratch golfer only to find out he hadn't played to it in 7 or 8 years. The course I belong to now is just the opposite. The pro's are knowledgeable and helpful and have really supported me. They give a lot of time to members and our kids trying to grow the game. I guess where I am going with this is if you are going to be a professional, be professional. If you advertise it, be able to do it. If you are going to take a job at a club to help people, help them. Again, I am not making a blanket statement. I know most of you guys take your profession very seriously and I hope you are not offended by what I have said. My hat is off to you because I know the hours can be very long and it isn't the highest paying job in the world either.

[joesgonegolfing]

I have mixed emotions, I love to teach but feel very bogged down by the rest of it. Passing the PAT was exciting, but watching 50% of the guys fail an orientation quiz on the rules and membership was very disappointing...it was open book.

 

I think instruction and the running of the course should be separate functions AND should be able to earn PGA status independent of each other. You would have better guys with the mind to run the facility, but maybe don't play as well and the instructor segment that needs to be able to play/teach and run clinics.

 

My personal PGA Pro experiences:

 

Most of them have been of the "old stuffy" variety and they just aren't very nice. I watch too many of them belittle the poorer players.

 

The exception to this was the facility that truly separated the duties; nobody asked the GM how to get out of the sand, and nobody asked the Director of Instruction why the dues had to go up.

 

At 42, I am all for being well rounded, but the PGA lost my interest. My life time of running business's means nothing to them, they rather I learned Cart management. I'd rather spend my time trying to be the best instructor I can be.

 

 

Prediction: Golf Course Management companies are going to continue to hire business men to run their shops, not PGA professionals and organizations that train teachers will overrun the PGA.

 

Joe

[specialblend218]

I don't like the PGA of America but I do like the majority of PGA certified pro's. I don't like how many golf courses in my area hiring Business men to run the golf course instead of PGA Pro's. These business men are all about the bottom dollar and not for the good of the game. I think the PGA of America should try to do something to change this. I really don't know what they can do but I'm sure there is something.

[DemolitionMan]

Good topic. As an outsider, one has to wonder what exactly is the function of the PGA? Historically speaking, I can answer that question, but in today's world, just how relevant is the PGA in golf course management? The huge majority of PGA pros I have met....no way I would entrust them with a serious business function where significant dollars are at stake...most of the time they just don't have the necessary business experience. However, I understand the industry does not lend itself very well in getting good business experience.

 

As far as being people, it seems to me the nicer or more exclusive the daily fee or private course is, the bigger jerk the PGA Professional is. Although, my experience is that it depends on the introduction I get. Without naming names, at one top course I get introduced to the PGA Pro through one of their friends or contacts, and I am in the little club and all is cool. But I can walk into a nice course without an introduction and the PGA pro treats me like some schlep who is bothering him for the privilege of being at their course. I never get that. By and large, PGA pros need a better perspective. Working at the country club does not entitle you to act like one of the snobby members. Even the snobby members are not entitled, so when a $40K/yr sweater folder starts putting their nose in their air....anyways.

 

I wish the PGA would take more control of the game as it applies to the masses. The USGA is not going to do it. Instead of all this time/money being spent on silly programs/initiatives that accomplish more for advertising revenue of the media than actual improvements to the sport, the PGA membership needs to get out to the people and lend a hand. More of a grass roots effort needs to be made to improve golf at its core. For example, if the PGA could actually do something about pace of play and etiquette at the most microscopic level possible, the sport might actually grow.

 

All that being said, some of the coolest guys I know are PGA Pros.

[drew123]

I know several pros that live in Port St. Lucie and they agree with me.

 

MikPGA,

If you have ever been to the PGA Learning Center in Port St. Lucie, they have these big bins of golf balls that hold 11 thousand golf balls. There are about maybe 6-7 of these. I have been there at times when they were all empty. This was not once but has happened like 12-15 times. Another example is how they have the lights so thewy can stay open till (can't remember if it was 10 or 11PM) but they closed at 8PM. They also don't give the ptros living there discounts that are any good. For another example, they charge 10-15% over the MSRP for equipment. They wanted $165 for a Taylormade tp wedge when it first came out. the Titliest circa 62 were $375 when they came out. It is just ridiulous.

[mikpga]

I appreciate everyone's input...

 

I am very fortunate to be a member of the PGA...

 

I worked hard and definitely take pride in the logo...However...

 

I believe as members of the PGA we should be the 'experts' in...

 

Instruction, Fitting, Club Repair, Playing, Ambassador for the Game, etc...

 

Is this how the majority views their local PGA Professionals?

 

Somewhat related topic...

 

In a recent job bulletin for GolfTec through the PGA CareerLinks program...

 

GolfTec is seeking a PGA Teaching Professional for one of it's new locations...

 

College education is required / Teaching experience is preferred, but not necessary...

 

Why does that bother me?

[joesgonegolfing]

I appreciate everyone's input...

 

I am very fortunate to be a member of the PGA...

 

I worked hard and definitely take pride in the logo...However...

 

I believe as members of the PGA we should be the 'experts' in...

 

Instruction, Fitting, Club Repair, Playing, Ambassador for the Game, etc...

 

Is this how the majority views their local PGA Professionals?

 

Somewhat related topic...

 

In a recent job bulletin for GolfTec through the PGA CareerLinks program...

 

GolfTec is seeking a PGA Teaching Professional for one of it's new locations...

 

College education is required / Teaching experience is preferred, but not necessary...

 

Why does that bother me?

 

 

Congrats on being a member and thanks for posting this thread. I am not sure I will ever finish my course work as I just cannot stay interested in topics outside of teaching and clubs. I really feel I should be able to specialize and gain membership. In the end that is why I feel the PGA will lose out to somebody/organization that mobilizes that same sentiment.

 

 

That ad kills me.......

 

......a college degree makes you a better teacher than experience?

[specialblend218]

 

I believe as members of the PGA we should be the 'experts' in...

 

Instruction, Fitting, Club Repair, Playing, Ambassador for the Game, etc...

 

Is this how the majority views their local PGA Professionals?

 

 

That is not how I view most Pro's, but I feel that most are knowledgeable in one or two of categories and not all, this does disappoint me a little since many people will ask them for advice in an area they seem to have no clue about. But I still feel good about most Pro's since they seem to be fairly good people.

 

 

About the ad, that is how most of the job ads look around here. I'm not in the PGA program yet I know a few that are and a ton of people that work at courses. From what I have seen so far, if a course is looking for that type of person then they will get that person and the course will go downhill from there.

[ryanpgm]

Mike,

 

Maybe GolfTec wants to educate their new professional as to their style of teaching. I hope this isn't the cast, because every instructor should be different as there is no right or wrong way to swing the club. From one member to another, let me pose to you a question: Would you rather hire A) A 22 year old PGA member fresh out of college who graduated from a PGA accredited university, who has only had summer internship experience or B) A 24 year old Level 2 apprentice who has had 3 years experience and is working towards their membership? I guess the underlying theme to my statement is: Is the PGA/PGM program good for the business? Looking at my name, you have probably figured out that I am a PGM graduate from an undisclosed university; however it has been my experience to have more hurdles to be accepted into the organization as the majority of the members feel this was the "easy way" to obtain membership. This all being opposed to holding a full time job and then doing the course work along. Also, is it fair to advertise oneself as a PGA member without having any "real job experience" to back the certification up? Would like to hear your input and well as others on the above comments.

[theglide96]

I have been working towards membership for almost a year now. I, however I have worked in the business for about 5 years. I have worked for and with countless PGA members, and I have found that they are all different. Just like any business we have our share of a**holes. But the majority of the people I have worked with have been good, honest, and helpful pros.

 

As far as the PGM goes I totally agree with RNF. We have a saying at my current facility, "there are only two things we don't do here, we don't read minds, and we don't do weather." I think there is some wasteful areas of the PGM, but range managment is not one, check your local radar for weather.

 

Lastly, playing. I cant speak for everyone but I believe playing is all relative. I have only been playing golf for about 4 years, I can get around the course but I am not going to put up any amazing numbers, somedays I'm lucky if I break 85. However my boss is a natural he wont touch a club for three weeks and go out and shoot 68. It makes me jealous. I need to keep the swing grooved and hit balls everyday. Thats not going to happen!!!

 

I really like this thread and hope it continues in a positive direction.

[ryanpgm]

Golf Range Management is for free standing driving ranges, how does that benefit green grass facilitiy golf professionals? This choice of example may not be the best; however, you get my drift. Caddie Program Management, how will that benefit a golf professional at Dick's Sporting Goods? The PGA PGM program is way too generalized. It needs to be more in depth and specific to career paths. If one chooses to switch paths that is what the Certified professional program is for.

[theglide96]

I agree with what you are saying. The b.s. could be cut down. I decided to go the route of working and going through my levels rather than going to a PGM univ. I hated all the b.s. you had to go through in college and I wanted to just focus on golf, but I have found it hard to balance my time at work, as the only assistant, and keep up with my course work. The idea of having shorter more specific certfications sounds good to me. I also find the cost to be difficult to deal with. My club has helped with costs, but if it werent for their assistance and loyalty I would not be able to comfortably afford the checkpoints and books.

[spro]

My thoughts on the GPTP is that it gives a basic (extremely basic) foundation for the golf business. But, nothing will ever compare to on the job training. The reason that the majority of GPTP or PCM graduates aren't hired as head professionals is that the program does a poor job of preparing you for the responsibilities at most facilities. The program is out of date -- no email communication class, no web design class, no marketing or advertizing class.

 

I feel the program kind of tells you what needs to be done, but doesn't train you on how to do them.

 

Does anyone feel that the PGA of America admits too many people through the program - and that it could use more of a screening process, or selection process? Basically, if you have the money, you can get in the program -- you don't even have to pass your PAT first anymore.

[mikpga]

Seeking all constructive criticism and positive remarks as well...

[Night train]

I've been around golf for a long time, before most on this forum were born, and been around a lot of PGA Professionals. The vast majority are people of great integrity and they truly care about the game.

 

Todays members come out of the program with more training than ever before, they have the basic tools to help better the game. The system is not perfect but it is quite good and only those with true motivation will pass all three levels.

 

Most members are great people who care about the game........they truly make a difference. A tip of the cap to all of you!

[bschmedindeed]

I think this is a great topic guys, quick question though, i'm thinking about possibly getting into the pga, and I was almost ceratin you needed to take the PAT before you could start the book work. I thought I just read a couple stories up that you didn't need to take PAT first if you had the money. Is that true?thanks

[RNF]

I think this is a great topic guys, quick question though, i'm thinking about possibly getting into the pga, and I was almost ceratin you needed to take the PAT before you could start the book work. I thought I just read a couple stories up that you didn't need to take PAT first if you had the money. Is that true?thanks

 

That is true now. I think you have to pass it before you are allowed in to level III. I think there is some kind of "playing forum" or something like that as well that is designed to help with the individuals game improvement.

 

 

 

The thing is Ryan, you just never know what options come your way. It is part of the industry and gives you a small look at the basics of that facet. Same as golf course design. Will you ever design a golf hole?...maybe not, but maybe. A good friend of mine now owns his oen golf course in Maine and he designed 3 holes, wwhich allowed him to close three holes that forced his clients to cross a street. The main thing it did was open those three holes up as sellable single-family home sites. That'll keep his course open.

 

 

 

You just never know what opportunity will come your way.