right shoulder lower explanation w/ diagrams

[sblack5]

it certainly is. its actually how dan had me hitting chip shots in person. very little hinge and simply think to get the right shoulder down.

[Club junkie]

Hi sblack. In another thread you gave the OP a tip to try and get his left shoulder pointing at the ball in the backswing. Using this tip helped me get my right shoulder in a better position so I could make the downward right shoulder move in the downswing. Cheers.

[nevets88]

[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375356846' post='7581992']
it certainly is. its actually how dan had me hitting chip shots in person. very little hinge and simply think to get the right shoulder down.
[/quote]

When you do this drill, how much secondary axis tilt do you get?

[Yosef]

This is an awesome thread, thanks to SBlack and all who have contributed.

[sblack5]

[quote name='nevets88' timestamp='1375359490' post='7582168']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375356846' post='7581992']
it certainly is. its actually how dan had me hitting chip shots in person. very little hinge and simply think to get the right shoulder down.
[/quote]

When you do this drill, how much secondary axis tilt do you get?
[/quote]

not a ton.....my personal feel is that my weight is more on my left foot with my left hip and shoulder still inline and then without hinging much in the wrists, I hit the ball with my right lat muscle. its a very natural tilt honestly and its one of the easiest ways to get the whole concept

[sblack5]

glad that everyone is having success with it

[nevets88]

[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375367090' post='7582976']
[quote name='nevets88' timestamp='1375359490' post='7582168']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375356846' post='7581992']
it certainly is. its actually how dan had me hitting chip shots in person. very little hinge and simply think to get the right shoulder down.
[/quote]

When you do this drill, how much secondary axis tilt do you get?
[/quote]

not a ton.....my personal feel is that my weight is more on my left foot with my left hip and shoulder still inline and then without hinging much in the wrists, I hit the ball with my right lat muscle. its a very natural tilt honestly and its one of the easiest ways to get the whole concept
[/quote]

What are your thoughts for promoting secondary axis tilt? Monte in his video says I think leaving the upper body behind. Someone else suggested to me feeling like you're leaving the back facing the target.

From the down the line view, the more secondary axis tilt you have, the more you are leaning to the right for a righty, ie right shoulder closer to the ground, yes?

[joeunc]

[quote name='nevets88' timestamp='1375368088' post='7583094']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375367090' post='7582976']
[quote name='nevets88' timestamp='1375359490' post='7582168']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375356846' post='7581992']
it certainly is. its actually how dan had me hitting chip shots in person. very little hinge and simply think to get the right shoulder down.
[/quote]

When you do this drill, how much secondary axis tilt do you get?
[/quote]

not a ton.....my personal feel is that my weight is more on my left foot with my left hip and shoulder still inline and then without hinging much in the wrists, I hit the ball with my right lat muscle. its a very natural tilt honestly and its one of the easiest ways to get the whole concept
[/quote]

What are your thoughts for promoting secondary axis tilt? Monte in his video says I think leaving the upper body behind. Someone else suggested to me feeling like you're leaving the back facing the target.

From the down the line view, the more secondary axis tilt you have, the more you are leaning to the right for a righty, ie right shoulder closer to the ground, yes?
[/quote]

he replied to your question about tilt in chipping only I believe. Are you talking about secondary tilt for the full swing now?

thanks

[sblack5]

[quote name='nevets88' timestamp='1375368088' post='7583094']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375367090' post='7582976']
[quote name='nevets88' timestamp='1375359490' post='7582168']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375356846' post='7581992']
it certainly is. its actually how dan had me hitting chip shots in person. very little hinge and simply think to get the right shoulder down.
[/quote]

When you do this drill, how much secondary axis tilt do you get?
[/quote]

not a ton.....my personal feel is that my weight is more on my left foot with my left hip and shoulder still inline and then without hinging much in the wrists, I hit the ball with my right lat muscle. its a very natural tilt honestly and its one of the easiest ways to get the whole concept
[/quote]

What are your thoughts for promoting secondary axis tilt? Monte in his video says I think leaving the upper body behind. Someone else suggested to me feeling like you're leaving the back facing the target.

From the down the line view, the more secondary axis tilt you have, the more you are leaning to the right for a righty, ie right shoulder closer to the ground, yes?
[/quote]

yes because as you rotate thru the shot, secondary tilt becomes side bend

[Schnee]

Steven,

I just sent in another lesson to Dan, so he may give me more direction in this, but I'm really having trouble getting my hands forward enough. My shoulder action is good, but my hands go too far down and not enough forward, so my downswing is much too wide. I either catch it slightly thin, pull draw or push depending upon how i compensate. How in your opinion would I get more narrow and get my hands more forward. When my club is parallel to the ground on the downswing, my hands are at or wide of my back leg whereas dan wants me to get more toward my left...

[sblack5]

let him chime in first. I dont want to tell you something that may overcomplicate it when he will probably say something profoundly simple and it will click for you. if you get his response and are still having issue then I will help.

[joeunc]

[quote name='CSchnee' timestamp='1375376777' post='7584138']
Steven,

I just sent in another lesson to Dan, so he may give me more direction in this, but I'm really having trouble getting my hands forward enough. My shoulder action is good, but my hands go too far down and not enough forward, so my downswing is much too wide. I either catch it slightly thin, pull draw or push depending upon how i compensate. How in your opinion would I get more narrow and get my hands more forward. When my club is parallel to the ground on the downswing, my hands are at or wide of my back leg whereas dan wants me to get more toward my left...
[/quote]

Can you from the top of the backswing do nothing but think about moving the right shoulder down and forget the hands. Keep the hands the same distance from the shoulder that they were at the top.

As the right shoulder works down, the left side will begin to clear naturally, the left hip will work up and back away from the ball.

Whenever all I do is move the right shoulder down and not the hands my hands are at my left knee with club parallel and right elbow is in front of hip. Then as Steven says I throw the club down the fairway as hard as I can to release.

[sblack5]

Chris.... if you're way inside out like that, it may be that your hips are turning too steep going back and in tying to level out and correct themselves for balance sake thru impact they are causing your motion to be more vertical than you'd like. it would explain your ball flight

believe me, I've been there... its a pain but dan will fix it

[grizztrax]

[quote name='CSchnee' timestamp='1375376777' post='7584138']
Steven,

I just sent in another lesson to Dan, so he may give me more direction in this, but I'm really having trouble getting my hands forward enough. My shoulder action is good, but my hands go too far down and not enough forward, so my downswing is much too wide. I either catch it slightly thin, pull draw or push depending upon how i compensate. How in your opinion would I get more narrow and get my hands more forward. When my club is parallel to the ground on the downswing, my hands are at or wide of my back leg whereas dan wants me to get more toward my left...
[/quote]

There is a drill I have been doing to help with this, called chase the ball. When you are at the range, place a ball even or just outside of your left toe. When you make a swing and hit the ball, you will find that your hands have to chase it to the left to make contact. Hit a few this way, then go to your normal ball position and use that same feeling of chasing the ball with your hands. I think this promotes the feeling of "throwing the club down the fairway" as sblack has described. For me this has led to really consistent compression of the ball. I got this one off of the mygolfinstructor.com website that is pinned up top. Combining some of their drills with Dan's instruction has led to some breakthroughs for me.

[sblack5]

thats one dan prescribes as well and yes it should help the release feeling I'm talking about

[FairwaysToHeaven]

have to also comment and mention how much this thread has helped. struggled with ee for a while and working on getting the rt shoulder down along with it turning through the hitting zone has gave me new hope for game. i had previously eliminated ee but was coming out to in with my rt shoulder in attempt to stay down. now, my tee shots have done a 180. i'm hitting everything more solid and from the inside, and much straighter with occasional draw. i used to get by on several mishits off the tee where i lost distance. now i'm keeping it in the fairway and much straighter and finding myself pin high much more often. lost one left last night when my hips stalled, but ball striking was much improved. 2 over par on 9 and didn't make anything putting

only issue or miss i still have occasionally is feeling like clubhead doesn't get completely square at impact. not sure if i'm not releasing correctly, but miss is solid hit but pushed right or starts straight with slight fade. should i feel the back of left hand turning down near impact. not a flip, and realize that turn should square the face, just wondering if anyone has also dealt with this.

[Schnee]

Alright I'll wait to see what he says but that's makes sense about ignoring my hands. I think about their position waaaaay too much

[joeunc]

[quote name='CSchnee' timestamp='1375382894' post='7584980']
Alright I'll wait to see what he says but that's makes sense about ignoring my hands. I think about their position waaaaay too much
[/quote]

good luck!!!! Some more to what I was saying. If you can just go left shoulder down going back and right shoulder down coming down your hands will be in a great position when the club is parallel on the downswing given one big thing=-=-=-=-= The hands and and arms must stay in front of the chest/shirt buttons.
If the hands are stuck behind you from an improper backswing it's going to be tougher to get them in the right spot when that right shoulder goes down.
Same goes if there is not enough depth going back, then you will have issues with the right shoulder down and the proper positions.

If you can combine Monte's thread on a shorter "full turn" and the right shoulder down thought it should add up to one efficient golf swing.

[MizunoLaxer40]

just read through this entire thread in an effort to find a cure for all of my problems; including the shanks and EE. I think this could really be it for me. will update once I get back from the range in a few hours.

[grizztrax]

Just be ready for this to take some time to get down. I've been working on it for a couple weeks and have seen improvement, but I'm not quite there yet. Right shoulder still seems too high coming into impact. It is definitely better than where it was though.

[Schnee]

Okay here's my problem with the right shoulder move. When I do the move, even in slow motion, my hands are slightly outside the line when the club is parallel to the ground on the downswing. Is this something that will sort itself out in the full swing with time? Trying to do what Dan does in his right shoulder down video my hands aren't always square to the target line at parallel.

[HillbillyInBC]

[quote name='joeunc' timestamp='1375383400' post='7585022']
If you can combine Monte's thread on a shorter "full turn" and the right shoulder down thought it should add up to one efficient golf swing.
[/quote]
That's exactly what I've been working on this week. Good results at the local pitch-n-putt with my wedges on Tuesday (I played the last 11 in even par after getting these two factors dialed in; only missed two of the tiny greens and both misses were long). I'm planning to stop by the range this evening to have a go at the longer clubs.

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='CSchnee' timestamp='1375386399' post='7585408']
Okay here's my problem with the right shoulder move. When I do the move, even in slow motion, my hands are slightly outside the line when the club is parallel to the ground on the downswing. Is this something that will sort itself out in the full swing with time? Trying to do what Dan does in his right shoulder down video my hands aren't always square to the target line at parallel.
[/quote]

I'm a long way from an expert on such matters, but I did go to see Dan for a 3 day school last month and this thread is basically a reminder of what he was getting me to do.

With that said, it sounds to me a little bit like you are a little too upright. If you're not bent over enough, then the right shoulder down will go out too much and down not enough, pushing your hands out over the line. If you're bent over a little more, then you can turn your shoulders on plane with your spine and the right shoulder will move more downwards and keep your hands more inside (or less outside anyway).

Oh yes, and I'm going to make sure I don't miss any updates to this thread.

[MizunoLaxer40]

so after my first range session doing this I can definitely see improvement and can feel I'm on the right track. looking out video I can see that at impact I'm not nearly rotated through enough yet, aka my arms are firing through before my shoulder rotation finishes. Also my chicken wing seems to be here to stay for life.

should it feel like I'm focusing on nothing but the shoulders through the swing? like at the top of the backswing think of fire right shoulder down at ball and let everything else just come along? my lack of follow through rotation explains a lot, just can't seem to stop "under-rotating through" if that makes sense.

[tgss]

[quote name='MizunoLaxer40' timestamp='1375383735' post='7585062']
just read through this entire thread in an effort to find a cure for all of my problems; including the shanks and EE. I think this could really be it for me. will update once I get back from the range in a few hours.
[/quote]

If you are shanking simply hit balls with your feet together and feel like your head is staying in an imaginary circle...not bobbing up and down. Grerat drill and slowly start separating your feet as your ball striking improves.

[sblack5]

yeah....but you can still suck it way inside, have a high right shoulder and flip at the ball.....which still would equal a shank with that drill. I agree however that a lot of folks run out of range of motion because their feet are too wide

[MizunoLaxer40]

I'm willing to try anything at this point so I will give that drill a try. on video, should my shoulder plane on the backswing literally be pointing at the ball? how much above the ball is considered ok?

[Yosef]

Alright, so I went to the range and tried this out today for the first time. I read the whole thread last night.

First of all I felt kind of uncomfortable with the ball so forward and standing so far away from the ball than normal. Also, is your stance supposed to be pretty wide doing this move? I felt like I was naturally setting up way wider than usual.

Getting to the swing, I had a lot of really good irons and drivers. Straight striping them, so I know this works when done correctly. I also had a big two way miss going when it didn't go well. It would be a push "slice" more of a fade, or a pull draw?? I'm so confused how these two polar opposite misses could be coming.

Another miss I had about a third of the time was a really thin shot, I think this is coming from me not committing to really releasing the club.

Thanks again guys! I know this will take time. Also one more question, reverse K at set up is important for this move correct? What about with wedges? Reverse K for knockdown wedges as well?

Thanks!

[sblack5]

stance is heels no wider than your hips. yes, it does feel weird at first. the push slice and the pull draw are a similar miss actually. both on the same way too inside out path from turning your shoulders too steep in the downswing.

see Monte's article on what a real shoulder turn is. thread title !many of you wanted to see this" I believe. his bit about not rotating out of tilt is a huge help to the concept we are talking about here

[sblack5]

the thins are the same thing its just that you also backed out a little because the club got stuck