GolfWorld Article / PGA Membership

[ryanpgm]

smarshal75, all good points that you present and they are most cetainly appreciated. Now I am going to play the devil's advocate. If I have an I.Q. of just below 50 and am considered legally retarted and I score a 450 on the SAT, does Harvard let me in? Maybe not the best choice of example, but you get my point. If the do let Ryan in where does it stop? The way the world is today once you make provisions for one person to get in under special exemptions you tend to open yourself up to a whole bunch of issues. I do believe that this young man would truely be a tremendous asset to the PGA of America; however, if he can't make the requirements that the PGA has made special provisions specifically for him, do you honestly think that he should be granted membership? If you do feel that way, how do you think that other PGA professionals would feel who have worked hard to obtain membership? Just a few ideas and I'm interested to hear feedback.

[smarshal75]

Obviously we are pretty passionate in our positions on this issue. Which is good! It elicits many different perspectives. But I am going to keep coming hard at you guys ;)

 

In response to McDavis's comments regarding law suits. Seeking an interpretation or relief from the courts is a Constitutional right for everyone. If someone chooses to file a law suit it should not be considered trying to skirt the rules, but in fact having them clarified or enforced. Malicious or vexatious litigants, or other people who abuse the court, get there balls busted eventually. The court doesn't take lightly to those trying to take advantage of the system.

 

As to assertions that allowing Mr. Ely a pass on the PAT would start a waterfall of other requests for relief, it could happen, but most erroneous claims could be countered if you apply the principles of the ADA, especially mental deficiencies. In Mr. Ely's situation he is physically disabled, not mentally disabled. He has demonstrated the cognitive ability, via passing the PGA management courses, to perform the essential functions of running a golf operation. The PGA management courses and associated exams appear to be valid predictors of the knowledge, skills, and abilities needed to run a golf shop. On its face, the PAT does not appear to be valid predictor of how well a person will perform the functions of running a golf shop since it focuses on a physical ability that has little relevance to running a golf shop. That said, denying a physically disabled person membership based on physical test that has little relevance to the major functions of running a golf shop appears discriminatory. In this situation, an exemption from the PAT would be a reasonable accommodation for Mr. Ely since he has demonstrated he can perform the job requirements of a golf professional. If a mentally handicap person could not pass the PGA management exams they could be barred from entry since they have not demonstrated the ability to perform the essential functions of required in the golf profession.

 

In the example used by Ryanpgm, the courts would not be likely to force a school to accept someone with a severe mental disability. Why? The SAT has been proven to be a valid measure of the cognitive ability to perform at an academic level that is necessary to pass college level courses. Thus, a university can exclude those who do not meet a certain test level.

 

In any event Mr. Ely is in a tough situation, not only is he missing an arm, but should he file a lawsuit he would be blacklisted in the golf industry, whether he prevailed or not. He probably will not file an action for this reason alone. I am interested to hear from the PGA members if they would hire Mr. Ely as a head pro without PGA membership, bearing in mind he passed all PGA course requirements and is otherwise qualified by experience.

 

I would also ask how passing the PAT, other than being a requirement to achieve membership, correlates or predicts the cognitive ability to perform the essential tasks of running a golf shop (e.g., managing a play sheet, reconciling daily/monthly receipts, merchandising, human resources management, club fitting/maintenance, tournament bookings/mgmt., and so on)?

 

I don't see why other members of the PGA would feel slighted if a reasonable accommodation were granted to Mr. Ely. He has worked just as hard as any other member in passing the PGA course work. He has probably also worked much harder on his game. The guy broke eighty with one arm...damn near 8 out of 10 fully functioning golfers will never break 90 in their lifetime.

 

In the end, I would rather hire an employee with a physical disability that can run the golf shop, than the arrogant guy who thinks he has to much game to be working in club house.

 

As an aside, golf professionals, as generalists in many disciplines of business (e.g., human resources management), should have a basic understanding of ADA requirements and other equal employment opportunity statutes, especially if you are involved in the hiring, firing, or otherwise supervise employees. Don't rely on the HR Department. What you say or do in an interview, during a termination/promotion, or other management activity could have a significant impact on you and your club.

[ryanpgm]

Knowing the basic labor laws, i.e. OSHA requirements, ADA, EEOC, Child labor issues, etc.. are basic requirements that all PGA members must pass in order to obtain membership. As earlier stated, the Harvard example was not the best, but the point still got across. The PGA has made special exemptions for this young man in an effort to assist him in obtaining membership. He has failed, numerous times in his attempts. There is no limit to the number of times one can attempt the PAT, with that being said he has not been denied membership into the PGA, he just hasn't made the requirements. It is simple, if he passes he is in. I graduated from a PGA / PGM University and there are at least 4 people that I can think of who will never be members of the PGA, who would make outstanding ambassadors of the game, that will never have the opportunity as being labeled, PGA Professional. The PAT was implemented for a reason and it needs to remain that way. In my opinion it needs to be tougher. Would I hire a him as a head professional without a PGA Membership, no. Does this hamper his dreams/career, yes. This is a tough situation that will not be resolved without someone being offended and/or hurt. Let's keep this topic going.

[RNF]

IMO Ryan you answered your own question.

You said you feel he would be an asset to our organization.

 

I've worked hard to get to my position and I know you probably feel the same way. If Ryan Ely is going to be an assest to my organization - I want him in it. It remains to be seen if he will be an asset, I've never spoken to him, nor do I personally know anyone who has.

 

Bottom line for me is - if he's going to strengthen my organization, then I'm for him.

 

As mentioned earlier - what is a reasonable score for a player with one arm?

 

Does he use a prosthetic?

 

There is no way we as a membership can expect someone who is handicapped to play at the level of someone who is not. If you don't believe me, try just hitting balls from a wheelchair... and remember you are far stronger than the individual that is confined to the chair.

[mikpga]

Allow the membership to vote. ;)

[RNF]

That would be fine Mike, but as of right now, I know little about Ryan Ely.

 

As it stands, I only know that he has not passed his PAT, but seems otherwise qualified. For me to vote him in, IMO he would have to present his case to the membership.

 

I did find ou a bit about him.

http://www2.cybergolf.com/sites/courses/ha...5&page=5513

[smarshal75]

I understand there is tradition at stake here. I also understand the concerns about the prestige associated with PGA membership being diminished by making an exception. However, I still don't understand what purpose the PAT serves, other than a physical barrier to entry to PGA membership.

 

Before we go to arguments that a professional has to be able to play the game to teach the game, I must point out there are many great coaches who have never excelled in the sport in which they coach. Take for instance, Bill Walsh. He was never an accomplished football player, yet he is one of the greatest coaches in football. There are many other examples.

 

I think the PGA is smart enough to develop a test or some other form of assessment that takes into consideration people with life limiting disabilities, such as an amputee or paraplegic. Disabled people deserve the opportunity to achieve the same levels of success as people who are fully functioning.

[High Plains Driver]

Personally, if my I am taking lessons from a PGA Professional, I could care less what he shoots. I am interested in knowledge of the golf swing, how good/quick his eye is at spotting problems in my swing, effective communication of what the corrections are, and the ability and wisdom to help me make the necessary chages to my swing that will make it more technically sound.

 

I have taken lessons where I have been immensely impressed with the pro's knowledge AND abilty to communicate it, and I have taken lessons that were flat out a waste of time.

 

I'll go with a pro who can't break 90 due to a disability, but can help me improve over a guy who routinely shoots 63, but dosen't give a crap about my game or is just a very poor instructor anyday.

[proknows]

Please let's not jump to conclusions that a Professional who can play "does not care" or can't fix your golf swing. There are not many if any of the top teaching professionals in the country that do not or have not been able to play a respectable round. Playing and Teaching are the backbone of the PGA and many of us work hard to maintain our games and those of our students. Although I believe we should set parameters for calculating a yardage that would constitute a fair test for this young man, I think it is absurd to suggest that the PAT be waived for anyone. I hear a lot of people complain they are meeting Professionals that do not "care" about their games. Do this: Do Not Support their facility, because there are plenty of us who do care. Why should a physical handicap to pass the PAT be waived and where would we draw the line? No need for rude replies as I have a friend who plays that has one arm and I have no doubt could pass the PAT from the appropriate yardage. He routinely breaks 80 from the back tees and we play some challenging golf courses.

[WanderDukeCubs]

 

As a member of the PGA, how does our playing ability actually help us perform our day to day jobs?

 

Outside of being a full time instructor, which I am, what role does the PAT play?

 

 

Then why does the PGA require the PAT?

[proknows]

The foundation of our organization was to grow the game through playing and teaching. As with any Professional Organization there will be requirements for membership. We have no responsibility to make it easier for anyone to become a member, and in fact, it would diminish our association and the respect we garner. If anything the target score for the PAT should be lowered, not raised. Many professionals may feel that this would eliminate many from joining our membership. The number of members competing for the number of jobs available, just proves we have made it to easy to attain membership status. If they do not feel it is important to keep their games up to an acceptable level, I would suggest becoming club managers. Nobody cares is they can play! Back to the subject of the young man. Calculate a fair yardage based upon his disability. If he passes, welcome to the PGA of America. If not, I wish him the best.

[ryanpgm]

RNF, sorry did not specify what I meant by asset. Provided he can pass the PAT he will be a valuable member of the organization; however, my opinion will change if he is granted immediate membership priviledges.

[smarshal75]

The foundation of our organization was to grow the game through playing and teaching. As with any Professional Organization there will be requirements for membership. We have no responsibility to make it easier for anyone to become a member, and in fact, it would diminish our association and the respect we garner. If anything the target score for the PAT should be lowered, not raised. Many professionals may feel that this would eliminate many from joining our membership. The number of members competing for the number of jobs available, just proves we have made it to easy to attain membership status. If they do not feel it is important to keep their games up to an acceptable level, I would suggest becoming club managers. Nobody cares is they can play! Back to the subject of the young man. Calculate a fair yardage based upon his disability. If he passes, welcome to the PGA of America. If not, I wish him the best.

 

"The Interests of the PGA, USGA, and the Game of Golf

The decision in favor of Martin is in the best interests of the PGA,

the USGA, and the game of golf as a whole. Golf, unlike other sports,

has always carried a certain stigma as a game for white, upper-class

males. The expense and image as a game for the privileged, has

harmed its popularity in the past. However, other sports praise their

diversity as young athletes from all races and cultures have overcome

the odds, often going from poor to rich. Many of the greatest heroes in

sports are perceived as such, not necessarily for their athletic ability, but

because of their diversity. The average American can more easily

identify with these diverse athletes than they can with the many PGA

players coming from upper-class families and communities.197

A clear example is Tiger Woods, who has drawn attention and

attraction to the game of golf in an astounding and unprecedented

fashion. Even more than his success and ability, his diversity has

inspired many children and adults, from all ethnic backgrounds, to

follow and take up the game of golf. This has increased the popularity,

media attention, and advertising of the PGA and USGA more than

ever. It is in this context that allowing Casey Martin and Ford Olinger,

golfers who are different from most people because of their disabilities,

to play golf would benefit the PGA, USGA and the game of golf itself.

They are inspirational success stories—golfers who have overcome their

disabilities to compete with the best in the world. This is precisely what

brought so much media attention to these cases in the first place,

especially the Martin case. They are the type of people the public wants

to see; and they, like Tiger Woods, will help the PGA and USGA shed

the game’s for-privileged-only reputation, and make it just as enticing

and popular as other sports."

 

...U.S. Supreme Court Ruling; PGA Tour, Inc. v. Martin & Olinger v. USGA

 

I guess excluding an otherwise qualified, but disabled person, by virtue of a test that has little to no bearing on the ability to perform the duties of golf professional, is growing the game of golf.

[glcoach]

There is no way the PAT should be waived. Calculate a fair yardage and make him earn it like everybody else.

 

Even in public schools, a special ed kid has to EARN his/her grade, kids with disabilities are given nothing except the OPPORTUNITY to achieve. They set up requirements that they can perform to and are evaluated based on that.

 

The same should be true for this young man. There are many one armed golfers out there who are really good.

 

In whatever I've wanted to do I have had a "I will not be denied" attitude. To achieve real success in life no matter what that is the attitude you need. The guy has broken 80, so I have no doubt that if he worked at it he would have no problem passing the PAT at a fair yardage.