Lightweight Golf Shafts for the Senior or Slower-Swing-Speed Golfer

[James Thomas]

Gary, thank you so much for your excellent reviews and the updates. I've just discovered this thread today, and found it a very interesting read. I'm somewhat similar in age and swing speed. The results you got from the Big Bertha shocked me a bit, especially the spin you got relative to the other drivers you tested. I bought a BB 3 wood from Callaway Preowned recently, and my results have been fairly decent. Good enough that I almost pulled the trigger on the BB driver. Now I'm rethinking that move.

I play a ZL Encore 10.5 with a stock F3 shaft that I love. However, like most of us, I could use a bit more distance. Last December, I bought a Bio Cell with the stock Project X shaft, reg flex. I hit it significantly lower than my Encore, even when I adjust it up to 11.5. I don't have any Trackman data (closest fitters with one are 60 miles from me). On the course however, I seem to average maybe 5 yards more with the BC, but that lower flight concerns me greatly. Based on all you've written, I wonder if I might improve things if I put a Grafalloy Blue in my ZL Encore.

Thanks again for your wonderful reviews.

[garywrice]

[quote name='James Thomas' timestamp='1429993935' post='11440931']
Gary, thank you so much for your excellent reviews and the updates. I've just discovered this thread today, and found it a very interesting read. I'm somewhat similar in age and swing speed. The results you got from the Big Bertha shocked me a bit, especially the spin you got relative to the other drivers you tested. I bought a BB 3 wood from Callaway Preowned recently, and my results have been fairly decent. Good enough that I almost pulled the trigger on the BB driver. Now I'm rethinking that move.

I play a ZL Encore 10.5 with a stock F3 shaft that I love. However, like most of us, I could use a bit more distance. Last December, I bought a Bio Cell with the stock Project X shaft, reg flex. I hit it significantly lower than my Encore, even when I adjust it up to 11.5. I don't have any Trackman data (closest fitters with one are 60 miles from me). On the course however, I seem to average maybe 5 yards more with the BC, but that lower flight concerns me greatly. Based on all you've written, I wonder if I might improve things if I put a Grafalloy Blue in my ZL Encore.

Thanks again for your wonderful reviews.
[/quote]
James,

You are welcome. The process has been fun and why not share. I have been using the Miyazaki B Asha 3R in my Ping K15 and have been very happy. But the Miyazaki B Asha has been very hard to find. I contacted Golfworks and they sent me to Cleveland (who is the American distributor) and they said that they are not getting "many overseas shipments on this shaft"....so there you go.

However, Grafalloy has come out with a new Pro Launch Blue 45 for only $40 and I bought one just to have as a back up. Although I have not used it yet, I would definitely recommend this shaft as well. It was much straighter and slightly longer than any stock shafts I used. The Ping K15 has been such a good driver head for me but I would love to try the new Ping G30 SF Tec but the prices need to go down a bit before I pull the trigger on that one.

Aren't the Callaway X2 Hot fairway woods and hybrids nice clubs! They have been great for me with the Aldila Tour Blue shafts in them.

All the best

[WTN]

Thanks for creating this post and all that have chimed in. I have both the G25 in a 10.5 degree and 12 degree as well as the TFC189 in the Regular Soft (senior), Regular and Stiff. The Stiff came came as the original shaft with the G25 10.5, the G25 12 came with the Regular Soft and I bought the Regular. (Son gave me the G25 with the stiff shaft when I bought him the G30 LS Tec). So far I've settled for the 10.5 (-) and the Regular Soft. I'm 63 and swing speed averages mid to high 80's avg. 220 to 230 total distance. On occasion I'll hit a drive 250 with a swing speed registering mid-80 (Swing Speed Radar). It's my opinion that the [b]ball speed [/b]higher than normal and / or it's the ball being struck (at the range). What seems to be optimal for me is to take my stance with both lead and trail foot flared out. Then drop my trail foot slightly back to make sure I take my swing inside which helps my shoulders lined up slightly to the inside pathway. I keep my plane relatively flat and transition I my weigh back to trail foot and keep my swing under control by keeping my swing at 3/4 so I can hold the top of my swing with no tension (this is what causes problems) and then transition into the slot and make sure I get full extension. With all that being said and having a swing speed at mid-80's with a slight inside out swing path the ball launches at what I would say is a moderate launch angle. I am considering picking up the Graffaloy Pro Launch Blue 45 in a Regular Soft.

Keeping in mind what I have shared. Has anyone compared the stock Ping TFC189 Regular Soft (Senior) with the Pro Launch Blue 55 and 45 (Regular or Senior) and ascertained which provided a best characteristics. I believe the TFC189 Regular Soft has a mid-low kick point, hence I would like it to be the same with the appropriate Pro Launch Blue shaft.

[garywrice]

[center][b]Ping G30 vs. [/b][b]Ping[/b][b] K15 Driver TrackMan Comparison[/b][/center]


Ever since the Ping G30 driver has come out, I have wanted to try it out against my trusty Ping K15. It has the same SF Tec (Standard Flight Technology) features as the K15 but with turbolaters!!

The primary factor in the SF Tec is that more weight has been put in the heel of the to help avoid slicing and a straighter ball flight. My K15 has been a great driver as I have reported before (http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/955395-lightweight-golf-shafts-for-the-senior-or-slower-swing-speed-golfer/). I went through a variety of shafts and settled on the lightweight Miyazaki B Asha 3R with the K15 head. Also, the shaft was shortened to 44".

So, to compare the G30 against the K15, I had another Miyazaki shaft outfitted with the Ping G30 adapter. Also, I purchased a Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue 45 regular flex shaft to use as well (shortened to 44" as well). It was a favorite of mine prior to finding the Miyazaki.

Also, I had a regular flex and standard length (45") Ping TFC 419 shaft to compare as well. Here are the results from the TrackMan fitting on July 8, 2015. These are averages of 5 to 6 drives with each head and shaft.


[b][u]Club [/u] [/b] [b][u]Spin[/u] [u]ClubSpd[/u] [u]LnchAngle[/u] [u]BallSpeed[/u] [u]AttAngle[/u] [u]Smash[/u] [u]Yds[/u][/b]

[b]G30/Miyzki 2137 80.2 13.1 119 -4.2 1.48 202[/b]
[b]K15/Miyzki 1972 80.7 11.3 123.4 -4.5 1.53 211[/b]
[b]G30/Grffloy 2048 80.3 11.3 120.9 -4.2 1.51 208[/b]
[b]G30/TFC419 2300 81.4 14.4 117.7 -4.2 1.45 201[/b]


As I reviewed these figures, there were a couple of concerns that jumped out at me regarding their accuracy. First, the Smash factor averaged above 1.50. Secondly, the spin on my K15 was significantly lower than any other TrackMan testing in the past (800-900). Of course my attack angle is still in the negative numbers. This fitter was not as concerned because he said "several pro players are in the negative numbers. Bubba Watson is -7"! He felt with my swing speed, I was getting as much as I could from the driver and my dispersion was very good.

However, afterwards, I decided to write to TrackMan, Tom Wishon and the pro fitter about my concerns. Here are there comments:

[b]Tom Wishon[/b]: "Depending on how much downward your A of A is, your best launch angle should be in the area between 11 and 12 degs. Spin numbers can be suspect even with TrackMan when hitting range balls so I would not put too much credence in the spin numbers. Proof in the pudding is what does your ball flight look like outdoors when you do achieve an 11-12 launch angle. If the shot is not too high, if it is not a curving upward upshoot type flight shape, then you are fine. Another key output of TrackMan that is beneficial for driver fitting is the Angle of Descent. As long as it is not higher than 38* and not lower than 30* with the 11-12 launch angle, then you know you are getting the most from a combination of carry plus roll after landing.

While Trackman claims a +/-1 mph on both the ball speed and the clubhead speed, it can make an error here and there on either one or both of these. Technically any smash factor above 1.50 means that either, 1) the club speed and or ball speed have been read wrong, 2) the driver has a COR higher than the limit in the rules. Since most companies try very hard to not produce driver heads with higher than an 0.830 COR, it would seen the smash readings over 1.5 are an error in picking up the ball speed and or the club speed. But anything in the close proximity to 1.5 on a TrackMan after repeated hits means the driver head itself is about as optimized as it can be for COR. "

[b][u]TrackMan[/u][/b][b]: "[/b]In our software we have a tool called the "Optimizer" that will give you the feedback on every shot how optimized the numbers are based on your club speed and attack angle. You can also get the optimal values for your averages using this feature. Please ask your fitter the optimal numbers for your swing type based on our Optimizer.

The smash factor can go beyond 1.5 if you hit it slightly on the toe. We always measure the club speed in the centre of the club, and as the toe rotates faster then the centre, the ball speed will in relation to the speed of the centre of the club, be higher than 1.5."

[b]Pro Fitter: "[/b]Smash factors can go above 1.5 and spin rate could be affected by many factors. They are anomalies. As far as the balls are concerned Trackman was set for lol muted flight balls and it takes that into consideration when the ball is struck. That's why we hit more than 1 ball. Good luck hope it's going well. "

[b]Conclusion: [/b]Ultimately, I am staying with my Ping K15. With the Miyazaki B Asha shaft, it has been the best driver I have ever used and it seems that, despite the similar technology, the new Ping G30 cannot beat it in my hands.

[Manz60]

shaft weight/head weight: you want the weights to match your strength and weight feel preference. Do this and you'll achieve your best swing consistency, best swing tempo and a full release of the club - and from this comes your maximum swing speed and highest percentage of on-center hits...all without thinking about it.

Otherwise, a too heavy shaft will cause you to swing with excessive effort; too light shaft will most likely cause you to slow down your swing, both disrupting your tempo, timing and causing off-center hits.

There is no weight-o-meter, so the clubfitter will start using common sense principles: aggressive transitions/tempos (or shorter backswings) and physically stronger golfers (strength being least influential) require heavier shaft weight/head weight. Smoother transitions/tempo (or longer backswings), less physical strength require lighter shaft weight/head weight.


A competent clubfitter can do a lot while you hit warmup shots for him (multitasking), most of the work being done in his mind - evaluating your physical strength, evaluating your transition/tempo (ie how you use your strength), measure your swing speed and identify your release point. From this, the clubfitter can make a shaft weight and flex profile recommendation or pick candidate shafts as a starting point. Test clubs are then assembled to help assist the clubfitter find the best shaft weight and flex profile that suits you and your weight and flex feel preference.

The clubfitter will "work the extremes" of shaft weight, adding head weight a little bit at a time till the golfer declares, "just enough" or "feels just right" which also produces the best shot results. In the end, your confident you have the best shaft in your hands that satisfies both your prefences and playing goals.

Hope this helps
M60

[garywrice]

[center][b]Hybrid Update [/b][/center]

Went to Golfsmith to try out some Cleveland CG Black hybrids. I have been using their wedges lately and Golf Magazine highly rated their hybrids by their testers. I have been using the Callaway X2 Hot hybrids (5 and 6). They go very straight and are a very nice club. Why am I looking? Their look (swollen toe) does not inspire much confidence and I am always looking for a little more distance. The Cleveland hybrids are a little longer (1/2 to 3/4 inch) and have 1 degree less loft (24 on the 5 and 27 on the 6) than the Callways. The Clevelands are a bit heavier at D2 vs. D0 for the Callaways.

I was very pleasantly surprised on the results. I did not get all of the data as it could not be printed out but the Clevelands were longer, higher, more accurate, higher ball speed and more spin than the Callaways (3500 vs. 3100).

The averages distances (5 hits on each club) on the Cleveland 5 was was [b][u]11 yards longer[/u][/b] than the Callaways (169 yds vs.158) and the Cleveland 6 performed the same, [b][u]11 yards longer [/u][/b](158 vs. 147). Again, the dispersion was a bit tighter, higher flights and ball speed on the Cl;evelands. A winner all the way around.

So, I have now purchased a Cleveland CG Black 5 and 6 hybrid in regular flex and does it translate to the course? The answer is yes. I am not sure that it is a full 11 yards but they are longer and they go very straight. They have now made it to my bag and the Callaway hybrids are in the den.

[b]A caution: [/b]You might need to act fast to get these because it appears that Srixon will be changing Cleveland's line up and maybe just selling wedges with the Cleveland name. Golfsmith told me that they will no longer be carrying Cleveland clubs (except for wedges) and my local shop in Flint, Michigan (King Par) is phasing them out as well.

If you are seeking some hybrids to replace your long irons, you should consider the Cleveland CG Black hybrids if you can find them.

[trapsmv15]

Gary, this is an awesome thread and thanks for your updates. Yours are some of the most detailed and helpful posts, particularly for someone like me who is about your swing speed equal.

Did you find any issue with the gapping to your 7 iron from the new distances, or did the increased club length actually [i]solve[/i] a problem for you?

-Ryan

[garywrice]

[quote name='trapsmv15' timestamp='1444074025' post='12413750']
Gary, this is an awesome thread and thanks for your updates. Yours are some of the most detailed and helpful posts, particularly for someone like me who is about your swing speed equal.

Did you find any issue with the gapping to your 7 iron from the new distances, or did the increased club length actually [i]solve[/i] a problem for you?

-Ryan
[/quote]
Ha! Funny you should mention that Ryan,

At this point, this is what I am doing. The Callaway 6 hybrid seems to fit nicely between the Cleveland 6 and the Karsten 7 iron. So, I am going with that for right now. I did find that there was that gap and I was over-swinging on my 7 iron to make up the yardage. However, the Cleveland hybrids have really helped on the upper end of the yardage needs with the Cleveland 5 being much closer to the Callaway 9 wood.

Looking at your bag.....you wouldn't be a Tom Wishon fan, would you? He has personally answered a few questions I have had. What a wonderful resource and club maker.

Gary

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='garywrice' timestamp='1444230788' post='12422512'] [quote name='trapsmv15' timestamp='1444074025' post='12413750'] Gary, this is an awesome thread and thanks for your updates. Yours are some of the most detailed and helpful posts, particularly for someone like me who is about your swing speed equal. Did you find any issue with the gapping to your 7 iron from the new distances, or did the increased club length actually [i]solve[/i] a problem for you? -Ryan [/quote] Ha! Funny you should mention that Ryan, At this point, this is what I am doing. The Callaway 6 hybrid seems to fit nicely between the Cleveland 6 and the Karsten 7 iron. So, I am going with that for right now. I did find that there was that gap and I was over-swinging on my 7 iron to make up the yardage. However, the Cleveland hybrids have really helped on the upper end of the yardage needs with the Cleveland 5 being much closer to the Callaway 9 wood. Looking at your bag.....you wouldn't be a Tom Wishon fan, would you? He has personally answered a few questions I have had. What a wonderful resource and club maker. Gary [/quote]
Not sure what would make you say that I'm a fan of Mr. Wishon, Gary; I wonder if the neatly tucked Wishon head covers in my bag will give it away?

Really, though; you're absolutely right. He has answered a few of my question as well and is nothing short of a gentleman. I'm glad to see that the Callaway hybrid fits in between those yardages! With all that we invest into golf equipment, it's nice to be able to put to use something we already own!

I asked because I had a similar issue when playing TaylorMade: I had a Jetspeed 6 hybrid and a Speedblade 7 iron, but I had to add in a Speedblade 6 iron at the time to have consistent gaps. Fortunately with my Wishons, when I reshafted myself, I made sure to go about doing the hybrid it as Tom usually suggests - as a part of the iron set - so I used the same iron shaft and length progression. So my gaps are essentially 10 yards consistent from 4 hybrid to PW (with AW a little wider at 15 yards, and SW rarely full shots anyway). My 7 wood/4 wood gaps are a little wider too at about 15 yards because I fit those separately for length where the 7 wood is three inches longer than the 4 hybrid, which doesn't hurt me gap-wise at my slower swing speed.

Loving the bag setup you have right now, particularly with the X2 Hot woods. I find my 4 and 7 woods to be my favorite clubs in the bag. The only thing I'm wishing for now is to find a matching Wishon 5 hybrid somewhere, as my 5 iron borders on iffy for me with regards to consistency (but has gotten much better since I built it .75-1.00 inch short of standard. The forgiveness, accuracy, and height of hybrids for folks like us almost feels like cheating, to me anyway!

-Ryan

[Dave Ping]

Thanks so much for that phenomenal post. That is without a doubt one of the most detailed, practical yet scientific reviews I have ever read. I can totally identify with your quest to find that perfect lightweight shaft, and your love of the Ping K15 head. I share your obsession, and have similar characteristics(60, losing some distance, 7 handicap), 95 mph and dropping. I have owned some 150 drivers, including the K15 ( currently play the 3 wood with a callaway xhot shaft), have others in the mail. The past 2 days I have been looking at lightweight shafts on the net. Your review has made my hunt more clear now, and given me some ideas I hadn't considered. I was about to pick up a Miyazaki tomorrow, and will throw in a graffaloy blue ( I had a heavier one a few yrs back). If you get a chance try a cleveland monster driver with the stock fujikura fit on gold shaft with senior flex. I have talked 2 friends into these (12 degree senior) and although the model is 4-5 yrs old they have not changed to newer models despite trying many. I cannot improve my launch monitor numbers or actual playing results with any other driver so far (Monster draw 10.5 regular). I have been in numerous shops, have had at least 4 sales reps more or less guaranteeing they can put me in a longer club ((razr-fit, R1, cobra,etc), yet my monster is always straighter and longer (I am used to it). I have 6 of them with various shafts and lofts, but the stock ones cannot get kicked out . We'll see what this week brings.

 

Is the Cleveland Monster driver you refer to the same as the Cleveland HiBore xls Monster? Thanks, Dave

[garywrice]

Thanks so much for that phenomenal post. That is without a doubt one of the most detailed, practical yet scientific reviews I have ever read. I can totally identify with your quest to find that perfect lightweight shaft, and your love of the Ping K15 head. I share your obsession, and have similar characteristics(60, losing some distance, 7 handicap), 95 mph and dropping. I have owned some 150 drivers, including the K15 ( currently play the 3 wood with a callaway xhot shaft), have others in the mail. The past 2 days I have been looking at lightweight shafts on the net. Your review has made my hunt more clear now, and given me some ideas I hadn't considered. I was about to pick up a Miyazaki tomorrow, and will throw in a graffaloy blue ( I had a heavier one a few yrs back). If you get a chance try a cleveland monster driver with the stock fujikura fit on gold shaft with senior flex. I have talked 2 friends into these (12 degree senior) and although the model is 4-5 yrs old they have not changed to newer models despite trying many. I cannot improve my launch monitor numbers or actual playing results with any other driver so far (Monster draw 10.5 regular). I have been in numerous shops, have had at least 4 sales reps more or less guaranteeing they can put me in a longer club ((razr-fit, R1, cobra,etc), yet my monster is always straighter and longer (I am used to it). I have 6 of them with various shafts and lofts, but the stock ones cannot get kicked out . We'll see what this week brings.

 

Is the Cleveland Monster driver you refer to the same as the Cleveland HiBore xls Monster? Thanks, Dave

The Cleveland Monster and the Cleveland Monster Hibore are different versions. I never did find the regular Monster driver but did try the Hibore. I stayed with my Ping K15. It has been the best for me. I am, of course, curious to try the new Ping G driver as they have the SF Tec version in this driver. The G30 version was none better than the K15. I have 2 Ping K15s. One with the Miyazake B Asha 3R shaft and one with a Oban Devotion 04 regular shaft.

 

Gary

[Marand]

Wonderful thread, and timely too as I head into my golfing season. I'll be 75 in May, my swing speed is in the 80-85 mph range, so distance is an issue. Everybody, including the two local pros, tells me I have a good golf swing. Lovely to hear, but the ball isn't going anywhere. I'm mostly playing the Reds so I can have fun using every club in my bag.

 

I'm playing a 915D3, and hoped to bump the speed a bit by my lengthening my shaft to 47". Good principle, lousy execution, going with a Diamana S+ Blue 60 in stiff flex, probably playing ~65/66 grams. I don't hit that any farther than with my 51 gram 44.5" Diamana M Red 50. I have no idea of what I was thinking when I added weight and stiffness and lower launch profile to the equation. Simply brain dead, not even bright enough to ask one of my pros for advice.

 

Thinking maybe a hotter head would help I tested a few of the latest and greatest drivers last Saturday.

Callaway Great Big Bertha with the Aldila Rogue Silver 60

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 816 in a variety of shafts: Aldila Rogue Silver 60, Aldila Rogue I/0 60, Fujikura Speeder 565, and MRC Kuro Kage Black TiNi 50, and finally the Matrix Ozik 60X4 White Tie

Ping's G LS Tech, with the Alpha 55 shaft

Cobra's King Ltd, with the Aldila Rogue Black 60

 

All lovely club heads (really liked the Big Bertha Alpha 816) that I didn't hit any farther, or straighter, than I'm hitting my 915D3, regardless of shafts, although the Speeder 565, followed by the Rogue Silver 60, were probably my two favorites. Why would I buy another head when my 915D3 gives me the same distance and control? Beats me, I'll keep playing it.

 

So, to get more speed with my 915, I'm going to do what I should have done the first time; go lighter - under 50 grams, not heavier; I'll go for 47" again (I haven't had a problem with dispersion); it should have a high launching bend profile; and I'll go with a 'Lite' / 'Senior' flex. Importantly, I discussed it with my local Pro, who concurs. I don't have any illusions I'll suddenly be 30 yards longer, but adding 10-15 would be more than useful, maybe sending me back to the Whites.

 

Of course there's no place you can go to verify whether my choice is going to work out, nobody is stocking light weight 47" drivers along with a choice of flexes. It's going to be a gamble, but shafts are usually a whole lot cheaper than club heads.

 

My finalists are:

 

Fujikura Speeder Evolution 474, in R2 flex at 47 grams

Oban Kiyoshi Purple 45, in A flex at 48 grams

UST Mamiya ATTAS3 - 4, in R2 flex at 47 grams

 

Does anybody have any experience with any of these?

[garywrice]

Wonderful thread, and timely too as I head into my golfing season. I'll be 75 in May, my swing speed is in the 80-85 mph range, so distance is an issue. Everybody, including the two local pros, tells me I have a good golf swing. Lovely to hear, but the ball isn't going anywhere. I'm mostly playing the Reds so I can have fun using every club in my bag.

 

I'm playing a 915D3, and hoped to bump the speed a bit by my lengthening my shaft to 47". Good principle, lousy execution, going with a Diamana S+ Blue 60 in stiff flex, probably playing ~65/66 grams. I don't hit that any farther than with my 51 gram 44.5" Diamana M Red 50. I have no idea of what I was thinking when I added weight and stiffness and lower launch profile to the equation. Simply brain dead, not even bright enough to ask one of my pros for advice.

 

Thinking maybe a hotter head would help I tested a few of the latest and greatest drivers last Saturday.

Callaway Great Big Bertha with the Aldila Rogue Silver 60

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 816 in a variety of shafts: Aldila Rogue Silver 60, Aldila Rogue I/0 60, Fujikura Speeder 565, and MRC Kuro Kage Black TiNi 50, and finally the Matrix Ozik 60X4 White Tie

Ping's G LS Tech, with the Alpha 55 shaft

Cobra's King Ltd, with the Aldila Rogue Black 60

 

All lovely club heads (really liked the Big Bertha Alpha 816) that I didn't hit any farther, or straighter, than I'm hitting my 915D3, regardless of shafts, although the Speeder 565, followed by the Rogue Silver 60, were probably my two favorites. Why would I buy another head when my 915D3 gives me the same distance and control? Beats me, I'll keep playing it.

 

So, to get more speed with my 915, I'm going to do what I should have done the first time; go lighter - under 50 grams, not heavier; I'll go for 47" again (I haven't had a problem with dispersion); it should have a high launching bend profile; and I'll go with a 'Lite' / 'Senior' flex. Importantly, I discussed it with my local Pro, who concurs. I don't have any illusions I'll suddenly be 30 yards longer, but adding 10-15 would be more than useful, maybe sending me back to the Whites.

 

Of course there's no place you can go to verify whether my choice is going to work out, nobody is stocking light weight 47" drivers along with a choice of flexes. It's going to be a gamble, but shafts are usually a whole lot cheaper than club heads.

 

My finalists are:

 

Fujikura Speeder Evolution 474, in R2 flex at 47 grams

Oban Kiyoshi Purple 45, in A flex at 48 grams

UST Mamiya ATTAS3 - 4, in R2 flex at 47 grams

 

Does anybody have any experience with any of these?

Marand,

 

I am now using the Oban Devotion 04 in regular flex in my Ping K15 driver and it has displaced my Miyazaki B Asha 3r as my favorite shaft. It has been very stable and consistent plus light. Been very pleased with it. Have not used the Oban Kiyoshi but if it is anything like the Devotion, I would support that one. I would like to try the ATTAS but were too expensive. Have used the Speeder before in TaylorMade drivers and they were ok but did not stay with them.

 

Good Luck.

 

Gary

[Marand]

Marand,

 

I am now using the Oban Devotion 04 in regular flex in my Ping K15 driver and it has displaced my Miyazaki B Asha 3r as my favorite shaft. It has been very stable and consistent plus light. Been very pleased with it. Have not used the Oban Kiyoshi but if it is anything like the Devotion, I would support that one. I would like to try the ATTAS but were too expensive. Have used the Speeder before in TaylorMade drivers and they were ok but did not stay with them.

 

Good Luck.

 

Gary

Well, I pulled the trigger on the Fujikura Speeder Evolution 474, in R2 flex. Played my first 9 with it yesterday, and, it's fair to say, it was pretty ugly. I had great difficulty squaring the clubface, on the range before and on the course, and I certainly wasn't getting very much height - high launching it was not. Nor did any go very far. Part of it was rust, but not totally. I really didn't feel the club head and so had difficulty with putting a consistent swing on it. I was disappointed a bit in the 474 shaft's feedback, but that might just have been due to lousy swings. I used the 4 gram head weight for the 915 that Titleist put in my long shafted 66 gram Diamana when I ordered it.

 

Just to confirm where my swing is, today I played with my Diamana M+ Red 50 gr, which is 44.5", and hit the ball much much better. But, as before, even with a solid swing and flush hit, not very far.

 

So, I'm going to try a heavier weight in the clubhead, Titleist's 9 gram, with the Speeder 474, and see how it goes tomorrow. I'll experiment too with choking up a little if I still have trouble getting the club square. I'll give it a full test before declaring the experiment a bust. If it turns out to be one, I'll try the Oban Devotion 04 you're playing, but in a softer flex.

[Woodster6]

I am 77 years old and I use the Grafalloy Blue Pro Launch 65. I also swing with a back friendly Vertical Swing. 99% of my drives are

rocket straight with a little left to right spin (fade) per Jack Nicklaus. I use this shaft in all my woods. Using this combination shaft and Vertical swing, I now play a solid 38-42 strokes for 9 holes.......I recommend a vertical swing. The rotational swing is a back breaker and most rotational swingers will slice the ball. That alone tells me that rotational is a bad method.....So, if you want to enjoy golf as it should be, take my advise. Go BLUE

[garywrice]

I am 77 years old and I use the Grafalloy Blue Pro Launch 65. I also swing with a back friendly Vertical Swing. 99% of my drives are

rocket straight with a little left to right spin (fade) per Jack Nicklaus. I use this shaft in all my woods. Using this combination shaft and Vertical swing, I now play a solid 38-42 strokes for 9 holes.......I recommend a vertical swing. The rotational swing is a back breaker and most rotational swingers will slice the ball. That alone tells me that rotational is a bad method.....So, if you want to enjoy golf as it should be, take my advise. Go BLUE

Thanks for your info. At 77, you must be doing something right!

 

I have more of a rotational swing as I find the more vertical swing harder on my back to get my wrists and body through the swing. Although I do have more power with the vertical swing. Maybe I am doing it wrong but that has been my results with this swing.

 

The Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue is an excellent lightweight, inexpensive shaft that I used for a long time. A friend of mine purchased the K15 with the Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue 45 shaft and has really liked the club and shaft. I support your thoughts on these shafts. Thanks again.

[pmcuk]

 

......I recommend a vertical swing. The rotational swing is a back breaker and most rotational swingers will slice the ball. That alone tells me that rotational is a bad method.....

 

 

I didn't know anything about "Vertical Swing" but looked at this video on YT.

 

 

I've been having a lot of issues with flipping because I was doing a "bad" vertical swing, which is exactly as shown in the video. I started swinging better when I found I had to take away lower and flatter for the first part, like the guy shows. It really made a difference. "Vertical" isn't as vertical as it sounds.

[garywrice]

......I recommend a vertical swing. The rotational swing is a back breaker and most rotational swingers will slice the ball. That alone tells me that rotational is a bad method.....

 

 

I didn't know anything about "Vertical Swing" but looked at this video on YT.

 

 

I've been having a lot of issues with flipping because I was doing a "bad" vertical swing, which is exactly as shown in the video. I started swinging better when I found I had to take away lower and flatter for the first part, like the guy shows. It really made a difference. "Vertical" isn't as vertical as it sounds.

 

Interesting video. I have been trying to get my swing more vertical and "on plane", however, at 67, it is hard to "teach an old dog new tricks". Some of the difficulties have been: 1. harder on my back and 2. a tendency to swing across my body rather than out and through, thereby producing a very ugly slice. I can to remember to drop my arms rather than swinging my arms around and out. The new more vertical swing does provide more power and distance but less accuracy at this time. Maybe I can find a happy medium that will produce the results I want. At a 9 handicap, the old swing was not bad but would like to have a more conventional swing and hopefully a little more power with accuracy.

 

Thanks for the input.

[pmcuk]

 

 

Inbee Park - one of my total heroes. Love her whole game to bits. She's often cited as one of the "perfect" vertical swingers. Above is her swing in slow motion. Below with commentary:

 

 

[LaterOn61]

I may have missed it but were you using range balls or the balls you play? You are much better off testing this with a Foresight GC2 indoors where you can use your own balls to test. The second thing I would suggest is to balance the testing with some lessons to get the Angle of Attack to a positive number with a good Inside to Out path. That would help your swing and compliment the club testing.

[garywrice]

New Lightweight Driver Shaft for K15 head

 

I finally decided to try out another lightweight driver shaft on my K15 head. My current Oban Devotion 4R is an excellent shaft and I have still have a back up in the Miyazaki B Asha 3R but I saw a lightweight UST Mamiya Attas 3 in Regular flex (47 grams before cutting) on sale at $170 and decided to take the plunge. I have always wanted to try the Attas shaft but it was just too expensive. Plus, I found a new(er) K15 head in 12 degrees to put in it.

 

Got it installed at 45 inches and took it to the range. It has been in my bag ever since. Not that the other shafts are bad but this shaft feels so solid throughout the swing. I cannot say that I have gained extra yardage above the Oban because I have not tested on any equipment. However, when I hit it square, I really do believe it goes a few more yards than my Oban and Miyazaki drives. I know it is expensive but if you can afford this shaft, I recommend it highly.

[ironlix]

i am glad it worked out for you so well!

 

Recently i just broke the shaft of my trusted G15 12* driver in stock shaft regular flex. I had it shortened to 44" for accuracy and lead taped back to D0 and it has performed very well for me this year. 3 rounds under 80 when my handicap is 13.

 

Now i don't know what to do... For starter, i just ordered the Prolaunch Blue 45. Will see the results soon.

 

 

 

New Lightweight Driver Shaft for K15 head

 

I finally decided to try out another lightweight driver shaft on my K15 head. My current Oban Devotion 4R is an excellent shaft and I have still have a back up in the Miyazaki B Asha 3R but I saw a lightweight UST Mamiya Attas 3 in Regular flex (47 grams before cutting) on sale at $170 and decided to take the plunge. I have always wanted to try the Attas shaft but it was just too expensive. Plus, I found a new(er) K15 head in 12 degrees to put in it.

 

Got it installed at 45 inches and took it to the range. It has been in my bag ever since. Not that the other shafts are bad but this shaft feels so solid throughout the swing. I cannot say that I have gained extra yardage above the Oban because I have not tested on any equipment. However, when I hit it square, I really do believe it goes a few more yards than my Oban and Miyazaki drives. I know it is expensive but if you can afford this shaft, I recommend it highly.

[garywrice]

Transitioning to Graphite Shafted Irons

 

I have always hit my irons with regular steel shafts. In the beginning, I use to love rifle shafted irons (Titliest) and have changed to Ping. In my later years, I have used the G15, the G20 and now the Karsten 2014.

 

At 68, I have begun to notice some real jarring at the bottom with hitting these Ping CFS Distance steel shafts. Also, my swing is getting slower. With driver, it is 85 mph and with irons about 15-20 miles an hour slower.

 

So, I decided to get a fitting the other day to try some different irons and see if I should transition to graphite shafts and/or senior flex. Since my local golf shop (King Par) is closing in my area (Flint, Michigan), I went to Miles of Golf in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

 

I did not realize that the Trackman was not going to be used and another monitor called the Gamechanger was used. Afterward, the results did not show some data that would have been helpful but this was all that this monitor had. I spent $100 for the basic 1 hour fitting and to have Trackman would have cost $250.

 

I brought my Karsten 2014 irons to compare to any other irons that the fitter would provide. I told the fitter that I have always liked Ping irons but I use Callaway hybrids and fairway woods.

 

He watched and monitored my swing with the Karsten club and definitely recommended that I transition to graphite and senior flex. He felt I would gain yardage and experience less jarring with the clubs. Plus, he said that now was a good time because my "swing would not be getting any faster!". Thanks.....but accurate.

 

So, he brought me the Ping G 7 iron, the Callaway Steelhead 7 iron and the TaylorMade M2 7 iron in graphite senior flex to compare with my Ping Karsten 7 iron with regular steel shafts. During the session, he evaluated my swing and suggested that my clubs be slightly more upright. Those are included and here are the numbers on the clubs:

 

 

Club Ball Speed Lnch Angle Total Spin Carry Offline(+=rt)

 

M2 uprt 94.3 18 5178 124 (0.8)

M2 92.3 17.7 5740 119 .1

Steelhead 92.3 17.2 5731 117 (2.1)

Ping G up 90.7 19.6 6006 116 1.4

Karsten 90 18.5 5602 115 (1.3)

Ping G 89.8 17.7 6931 111 5.2

 

The fitter's recommendations were that the best "fit" for me would be the TaylorMade M2 irons. He felt they should be 1 degree upright and shortened a half an inch.

 

Personally, I was impressed with the M2 7 iron as well. It flew much higher despite having a lower loft than the others clubs (28.5 vs. 30 or 30.5) and they flew further. I would expect the distance on the flatter loft but I was quite impressed with the much higher loft.

 

I purchased the TaylorMade M2 clubs (6-SW) in senior flex and graphite (used) but in standard length and lie angle. I wanted to try them out with everything standard before any adjustments.....plus I got them about $250 cheaper than brand new.

 

I have been using them now for about 6 rounds and there are some adjustments. I have a tendency to pull these clubs a bit but they continue to fly high despite the lower loft. The jury is still out if they go any farther than the Ping Karstens that I have, but I am going to sell them and get adjusted to the graphite. We will see what happens over the next several months if I stay with these (will be playing in Florida).

 

Any other stories of transition to graphite are most welcome.

[pmcuk]

I just transitioned from 85-95g steel shafts to 60g senior graphite. I was hitting all over the place for 5 or 6 rounds, but it's getting more under control now. Ball goes much higher, and distance is improved. Every now and again I hook a ball left - can't feel the club in the backswing. What I ended up doing was just watching the front of the ball religiously and not moving my head, and just letting the backswing do whatever it wanted. This seems to work. I don't have much sensation in the backswing so it's a question of developing a swing and sticking to it regardless. I still play steel shafts in my 52 and 58 wedges.

[hackerboy]

Nothing new to add here except several times a year I end up re-reading this wonderful thread and getting motivated to try out some more ultralight shafts. Was wondering what if Gary or anyone had tried the new Grand Bassara or other ideas. Thanks.

[garywrice]

Nothing new to add here except several times a year I end up re-reading this wonderful thread and getting motivated to try out some more ultralight shafts. Was wondering what if Gary or anyone had tried the new Grand Bassara or other ideas. Thanks.

Glad you like it hackerboy. I noticed that Grand Bassara shaft reviewed on Russ Ryden's shaft site and got me to thinking about it. I am currently using the ATTAS 3 lightweight shaft in my Ping K15 and really like it. So, I have left the Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue 45, Miyazaki B Asha 3R (went here because I hit it further) and the Oban Devotion 4R (went here because the Miyazaki was a little bit too whippy) behind (all good shafts for me), I really like the firmness of the Attas3 light weight shaft (I left the Oban cuz the tip was thinner and, silly me, did not like the looks of it).

 

I just might try the Grand Bassara because I use the Callaway V series 3 and Heaven woods in my bag and they have the Bassara as their stock shaft....very light but firm (regular flex). The 3 wood is a little low trajectory but I hit it as good as I have ever hit a 3 wood. The Heavenwood is just great and between a 5 and 7 wood in distance with excellent height and direction. One of my best clubs.

 

Thanks for the compliment. Good Luck.

[hackerboy]

Thanks Gary. I keep looking for Attas 3 but they never seem to drop in price. I'm trying out a Bassara 42 tomorrow. One of my weekly foresome continues to blast his K15 farther than would seem possible by laws of physics. Wonder what the COR is on some of those. Look forward to your future posts.

[garywrice]

Lightweight driver shaft Update

Just wanted to send a short update on lightweight driver shafts. I bought a Mitsubishi Rayon Bassara Wyvern at 43 grams that has been just excellent combined with my Ping K15 head. I recommend it highly. Similar in feel to the Attas3 and very steady in the regular flex with my 85mph swing. I have started to play with it on a regular basis and the Attas3 is taking a time out. The Attas is an excellent shaft but a bit more pricey than the Wyvern if you can find one.

[garywrice]

Lightweight Driver Shaft Update #2 - I thought I would add to this piece because I found another reasonably affordable lightweight driver shaft that I like a great deal. Callaway Pre-Owned had some Mitsubishi Diamana M+ Green 40 shafts on sale for $79. I had been looking for another lightweight Mitsubishi Bassara Wyvern or W-series 43 gram shaft to insure that I had a back up for my current driver. I have not been able to find one and if one does pop up, it is $300. No thanks.

 

This Mitsubishi shaft is currently used in the Big Bertha Epic driver (with jailbreak technology) as one of their driver shaft options. So, I bought this in a regular flex to try out in a Ping K15 head. After it was installed, I went to the Golf Galaxy monitors and then to the range to compare the 2. I have really liked the Wyvern and it really seems to fit my swing. On the monitor, I actually hit one the furthest with the Diamana shaft (214 vs. 206 for the Wyvern). The range was hard to tell distances but Diamana definitely kept up with the Wyvern and felt very solid throughout the swing. Both drivers kept the ball in play consistently and with good distance. Again, my swing speed (at 69 years of age) is 82-85 mph at best.

 

So, now I have stayed with the Ping K15 all of these years because it is the straightest driver I have ever owned (a couple have been a bit longer....the Callaway GBB and the TM SLDR... but not as consistent directionally). After the Ping standard shaft, I have gone from the Grafalloy Blue 45 to the Miyazaki B Asha to the Oban Devotion to the Mamiya Attas 3 to the MR Wyvern. I used the Bassara shafts in my fairway woods as well and seem to match my swing. I still will keep a lookout for another Wyvern or W-series driver shaft but the Mitsubishi Diamana M+ Green seems to be an able substitute.

[garywrice]

Lightweight Driver Shaft update #3 - I am not sure that anyone is following this particular thread on lightweight driver shafts for senior golfers but I went for a driver fitting a couple of weeks ago and thought I would update the posting.

 

The reason I went for a fitting was there were some new drivers out that had a similar make up to the Ping K15 that I have been using for the past several years. Have tried a variety of drivers but none have been able to compare to the consistency, accuracy of my swing with this driver. I have put a Mitsubishi Grand Bassara 39 shaft in the Ping K15 head and it has become my driver for my bag. A very nice (but expensive) driver shaft.

 

Based on an article in a recent Golf Digest, the drivers that interested me were the Callaway Rogue Draw Driver, the TaylorMade M4 D type driver and, of course, the updated Ping G400 SFT to match against the Ping K15 with the Grand Bassara shaft. I went to Golf Galaxy because it was inexpensive ($30) and it would be applied toward the purchase of a new driver.

 

Of course, the big surprise for me was the reduction of my swing speed (I am 70). At the beginning of this post, it was about 85 mph but now it is at 76 mph. I struggle to get it to 200 yards on a good drive....no wonder. Anyway, here are the results with regular flex stock shafts (I like the regular flex because they do not feel as whippy as most senior driver shafts):

 

Ping K15 - Ball Speed: 110; Spin: 2652; Carry: 159; Total: 194

TM M2 D type - Ball Speed: 107; Spin: 2582; Carry: 152; Total: 188

Callaway Rogue Draw - Ball Speed: 110; Spin: 2007; Carry: 154; Total: 198

TM M4 D type - Ball Speed: 111; Spin: 2216; Carry: 155; Total: 202

Ping G400 SFT - Ball Speed: 110; Spin: 2773; Carry: 156; Total: 194

 

These are averages based on 5 best hits out of 7 each. There was no print out provided by Golf Galaxy so these are based on the rep listing what he thought was important. He said that there was not a big difference in dispersion on the drivers that one stood out. I got the most carry on my own driver but most overall yardage on the TM M4. I also liked the sound and feel of the TM M4 the best. So, I ordered the TM M4 D type with the Matrix White Tie 55 shaft to try out

 

After a few rounds, I did not like how the TM was performing. However, I had a lighter Mitsubishi Bassara E? 42 shaft in regular flex and I have been very pleased with the accuracy and yardage of the club with that shaft. I definitely would recommend it for those of us who have a tendency to go out to in on our swing and fade/slice. The heel of this club is very weighted and it does draw for me. Of course, my K15 will not be far away if the TM M4 d type misbehaves but it is in my bag for a while for now.

 

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.