The Biggest mistake people make when discussing hip turn of Hogan

 Harleyweedwhacks ·  
HarleyweedwhacksHarleyweedwhacks Members  152WRX Points: 0Handicap: 6Posts: 152
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In his five lessons, he discussed that the hips shouldn't turn as much as being taught in those days. However, people mistake this for restricting his hip turn. He did not ever restrict his hip turn. His shoulders started the motion, but as his shoulders went around, that pulled his hips with it. He had a full and free hip turn in his backswing, with a heel lift with the longer clubs. Look at video of him before his wreck, and you can obviously see that he allows the leading heel to rise with his driver and long woods and irons, as well as having a free hip turn.<br />
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People talk all the time about how his hip turn was restricted, but if he were to do this, he'd have back problems. Severe back problems, like today's modern player. I see many a college player with ice and heat on their backs, because they are told to restrict the hip turn. It's complete nonsense, and Hogan never did it.<br />
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If you're to emulate Hogan, turn your hips on the backswing. Yes, the shoulders outturn the hips, but in general the hips turn a good ways. And, anatomically (I know this, because I've studied how the body works), the leading heel should rise a bit on the backswing. Not a pivot of the heel, but through the knee flexing, the heel comes off the ground like a lift, rather than pivot.
Posted:
"I have one brief comment today, and there is no chance, we're all human beings here, and there's no chance humanly possible that Tiger woods isn't hurting his back with a swing like that...no way."--Colin Montgomerie
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  • ForewoodForewood MW2 Members  316WRX Points: 0Handicap: +2Posts: 316
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    I’m not so sure he started his takeaway with his shoulders. I believe the reason he was an advocate of the one piece take away was because he started the takeaway with his lower body which made hit upper body go along for the ride.
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  • AlexCzervicAlexCzervic Members  728WRX Points: 91Posts: 728 Golden Tee
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    What Hogan did is written in plain English in 5L. In other words, hands lead/direct the triangle(arms & shoulders), pivot accommodates. <br />
    <br />
    AC
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  • oscar@wrx[email protected] Members  504WRX Points: 0Posts: 504
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    What Hogan did is written in plain English in 5L. In other words, hands lead/direct the triangle(arms & shoulders), pivot accommodates. <br />
    <br />
    AC
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    Exactly. So why interpret the exact opposite?
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    "Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."
  • oscar@wrx[email protected] Members  504WRX Points: 0Posts: 504
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    What Hogan did is written in plain English in 5L. In other words, hands lead/direct the triangle(arms & shoulders), pivot accommodates. <br />
    <br />
    AC
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    Exactly. So why interpret the exact opposite?
    <br />
    His backsswing is very fast though. So the sequencing could look like something else
    Posted:
    "Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."
  • ctmason_98ctmason_98 TOTALLY outta the bag... Members  1832WRX Points: 105Handicap: BIGPosts: 1,832 Platinum Tees
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    I stil don’t understand why pinpointing what starts the swing matters. It can feel different for everyone. <br />
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    It seems to be a meaningless concept anyway. Yet there’s pages of discussion about how the hands not the arms or vice versa start the swing, especially when discussing MDLT.
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  • davep043davep043 Members  5035WRX Points: 2,245Handicap: 6.3Posts: 5,035 Titanium Tees
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    <br />
    What Hogan did is written in plain English in 5L. In other words, hands lead/direct the triangle(arms & shoulders), pivot accommodates. <br />
    <br />
    AC<br />
    <br />
    When Hogan wrote about his swing, he wrote about what he felt. While he knew more about his swing than most do, what he felt may not have been what he actually did. I've seen a few videos (sorry, can't locate them right now) that show that at least a few of the aspects of his actual swing were significantly different from what he recommended.
    Posted:

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  • AlexCzervicAlexCzervic Members  728WRX Points: 91Posts: 728 Golden Tee
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    Forget what it looks like, your kinematic mind will perform far better without any false conclusions from you. Right arm structure, think about moving hands, pivot accommodates. After some pivot training you’ll have an athletic, freewheeling swing, an idea in motion. <br />
    <br />
    Watch the Coleman video not the Ferrari. <br />
    />
    <br />
    AC
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  • WinKiePieWinKiePie Members  149WRX Points: 26Posts: 149 Fairways
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    i think the right knee kick in is how he restricts his hip turn. I don't think he intentionally tried to not turn his hip. That would be bad for his back.
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  • oscar@wrx[email protected] Members  504WRX Points: 0Posts: 504
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    WinKiePie wrote:
    i think the right knee kick in is how he restricts his hip turn. I don't think he intentionally tried to not turn his hip. That would be bad for his back.
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    I think he really actively restricts his hips with both right and left feet, but via what you said with weight or pressure on inside of right foot, knee and leg. If you restrict hips without this, your back would ache. I personally have tried restricting hips both with and without and my lower back had a painful episode without the inner right foot thing. As soon as I had it, no pain. This is even with active hip turn as told in 5L
    Posted:
    "Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."
  • WinKiePieWinKiePie Members  149WRX Points: 26Posts: 149 Fairways
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    <br />
    WinKiePie wrote:
    i think the right knee kick in is how he restricts his hip turn. I don't think he intentionally tried to not turn his hip. That would be bad for his back.
    <br />
    <br />
    I think he really actively restricts his hips with both right and left feet, but via what you said with weight or pressure on inside of right foot, knee and leg. If you restrict hips without this, your back would ache. I personally have tried restricting hips both with and without and my lower back had a painful episode without the inner right foot thing. As soon as I had it, no pain. This is even with active hip turn as told in 5L<br />
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    You are correct sir. I've tried it for myself. Hmm.. why is that? I have zero knowledge on bio-mechanics.
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  • HarleyweedwhacksHarleyweedwhacks Members  152WRX Points: 0Handicap: 6Posts: 152
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    Hip turn in my view should be free anyhow. Maybe, "passive", is the correct word for it.<br />
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    Hogan never restricted his turn, as he allows the leading heel to rise in the backswing. You can't do that unless your hips turn quite a bit. What I mean is that his hips were passive, and reacted to what he said was his shoulders pulling the hips around. I have the book, I know what he said.
    Posted:
    "I have one brief comment today, and there is no chance, we're all human beings here, and there's no chance humanly possible that Tiger woods isn't hurting his back with a swing like that...no way."--Colin Montgomerie
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  • alansmithdcalansmithdc Members  202WRX Points: 78Posts: 202 Fairways
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    I have made a discovery about Hogan's hip turn. I have googled the concept. The only reference I can find is a quote made by Jack Nicklaus. Jack did not fully explain the concept. Sadly, if a print it, I just know the onslaught of naysayers hits. So I recommend students study Nicklaus's hip motion.
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  • powerfade66powerfade66 Members  451WRX Points: 62Posts: 451 Greens
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    <br />
    I have made a discovery about Hogan's hip turn. I have googled the concept. The only reference I can find is a quote made by Jack Nicklaus. Jack did not fully explain the concept. Sadly, if a print it, I just know the onslaught of naysayers hits. So I recommend students study Nicklaus's hip motion.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    There are a lot of vague comments in this forum but that one is right up there.
    Posted:
  • alansmithdcalansmithdc Members  202WRX Points: 78Posts: 202 Fairways
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    Nickalus said to drive the right hip to the ball
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  • dcfasdcfas Capital Region, NY Members  1041WRX Points: 192Posts: 1,041 Platinum Tees
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    A question on this topic: when you drive the right hip to the ball do you feel that it is in initiating the ds? I.e., is this movement the first from the top of the bs?
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  • powerfade66powerfade66 Members  451WRX Points: 62Posts: 451 Greens
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    <br />
    Nickalus said to drive the right hip to the ball<br />
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    <br />
    Yes this one has been covered many times before. Hogan said he pushed off his right foot, ran his right knee at the ball etc etc.
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  • powerfade66powerfade66 Members  451WRX Points: 62Posts: 451 Greens
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    dcfas wrote:
    <br />
    A question on this topic: when you drive the right hip to the ball do you feel that it is in initiating the ds? I.e., is this movement the first from the top of the bs?<br />
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    Not in my opinion given he had his left heel off the ground at the top. The right hip starts to move left mid to late backswing to get into position but the drive or thrust comes later.
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  • alansmithdcalansmithdc Members  202WRX Points: 78Posts: 202 Fairways
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    There is something missing pm me and I'll share<br /><br />
    dcfas wrote:
    <br />
    A question on this topic: when you drive the right hip to the ball do you feel that it is in initiating the ds? I.e., is this movement the first from the top of the bs?<br />
    pm me
    Posted:
  • powerfade66powerfade66 Members  451WRX Points: 62Posts: 451 Greens
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    ffs. This forum really has lost it.
    Posted:

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