Tour Striker

Hi Martin.

I got your tour striker. Wonderful, wonderful (did I mention wonderful?) club!

I thought I had been hitting down pretty well but when I got your club I found out I could hit down even better. Gave me a great ball flight and additional distance. Hit a full large bucket with it. What a great feeling hitting the ball.

Although I had no problem hitting with the tour striker, what I did find out is that hitting my own clubs I initially didn't hit quite as well but much better than before. After some reflection, I realized that when I hit with the tour striker my primary focus was on leaning the shaft forward at impact and nothing else.

It is incredible just how important it is to get that forward lean in the shaft and really getting better mechanics to create power in the swing. Although I know I still have many swing faults, I can truthfully say your club has allowed me to feel so much more in the swing and I think as I improve my mechanics going forward I will really understand and feel changes.

As far as the video you sent to Jack I was wondering if you could clarify a couple of points for me.

1. How important (in your opinion) is it to swing down to the elbow plane?

2. If the shaft only gets downs to intersect the bicep is that good enough?

3. What is underplane (is it anything under the elbow plane) and how does this affect your ability to control the clubface?

I'm not sure I understand the elbow plane all that well so if I have parts wrong please excuse my ignorance. Your video was helpful but I would like to know how to apply the setup and backswing motion because I think my downswing is offplane and I would like to correct it.

Thanks,

Kelly

PS- my sister's boyfriend got the pro version and he is struggling with it. I am left handed and he is right handed so I may have to purchase the pro version for myself. Again, great product!

great questions.
i'm curious as well.

Tour Striker is an awesome training aid. There's a sandwedge coming soon too. I reviewed the pro version a while back [url="http://www.zenchili.com/2010/01/09/review-tour-striker-pro/"]here[/url].

Some great questions about the tour striker. I also have been having trouble striking down into the ball and leaving a divot in front. I received the tour striker this week and hit my first bucket of balls with it off a range mat. As mentioned above, I was also focusing on getting the left hand into impact position as I came through and I think it worked quite well. I have not yet tried it with my golf clubs on the course.

Question: Here is where I am having a MENTAL block with all of this. If you look at various videos - Tour Striker, Impact bag etc. - The idea seems to be that you get into your proper stance and takeaway position with the club and your hand just inside your left thigh area. Then when you swing through with the club you need to have a straight left wrist at impact which is considerably further forward that it was at address.
I used to take my address with the club forward ( similiar to where it would be at impact ) and then try to return it to that same spot. Everyone told me that I had my hands WAY to far forward at address and I am delofting the club. Now it seems that by pushing the hand to a straight left wrist at impact is doing the same thing. Why don't you just start out with your hand in impact position in the first place at address?
Am I the only one that can't get this through my thick head? What makes the difference?

Thanks and I am continuing to work with the Tour Striker and hope for good things.
Denny

I kind of struggled with that same setup issue.... and also with very inconsistent results. I've since switched to a traditional setup and am getting better results. While I'm no expert, I think setting up with "impact hands" caused issues throughout the whole swing. The impact position is a result of doing other things correctly and setting up with just the hands in that position will cause issues with the club face and plane, especially since you're most likely setting up with shoulders square and true impact has them open.

Completely player choice whether you want to set up with mid body hands or impact hands. Some people are more comfortable starting with a flat left wrist and bent right wrist (impact hands.) Some are more comfortable setting up with mid-body hands and getting to the proper impact position dynamically. Martin and Jeff do a great job of explaining and showing the difference...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9eJcFhM2Cw[/media]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB_TaBak7S4[/media]

I just wish the thing went on sale every once in a while :/

Thanks for the videos. That is very helpful. It did bother me, even with the tour striker, to think that I was delofting the club when I had my hands so far forward. I guess that this is the way it supposed to be.
Denny

[quote name='Denny62' date='04 March 2010 - 09:24 AM' timestamp='1267712667' post='2292436']
Some great questions about the tour striker. I also have been having trouble striking down into the ball and leaving a divot in front. I received the tour striker this week and hit my first bucket of balls with it off a range mat. As mentioned above, I was also focusing on getting the left hand into impact position as I came through and I think it worked quite well. I have not yet tried it with my golf clubs on the course.

Question: Here is where I am having a MENTAL block with all of this. If you look at various videos - Tour Striker, Impact bag etc. - The idea seems to be that you get into your proper stance and takeaway position with the club and your hand just inside your left thigh area. Then when you swing through with the club you need to have a straight left wrist at impact which is considerably further forward that it was at address.
I used to take my address with the club forward ( similiar to where it would be at impact ) and then try to return it to that same spot. Everyone told me that I had my hands WAY to far forward at address and I am delofting the club. Now it seems that by pushing the hand to a straight left wrist at impact is doing the same thing. Why don't you just start out with your hand in impact position in the first place at address?
Am I the only one that can't get this through my thick head? What makes the difference?

Thanks and I am continuing to work with the Tour Striker and hope for good things.
Denny
[/quote]



You guys have brought up a very important topic for a lot of golfers.

I used to setup with my hands way forward (impact position) and I used to hit the ball better. After I started to use slicefixers 9-3 drill I found I had trouble getting his quarter turn rotation in the backswing. I also found I was more upright in my backswing with the toe pointing more down towards the ground (closed I think) at the top.

So I moved my hands back a bit at address. I am still leaning the shaft a bit forward but not as much.

In my opinion (for what its worth), a lot of us higher handicap golfers are affected more by positions in our swings because we may not know really what our positions are during the swing and if we are doing something wrong when we correct one thing it may make things worse for the things we are doing wrong.

That's probably why we need another set of eyes to help us because we just aren't aware of the real problems in our swings.

[quote name='highergr0und' date='04 March 2010 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1267715102' post='2292501']
I kind of struggled with that same setup issue.... and also with very inconsistent results. I've since switched to a traditional setup and am getting better results. While I'm no expert, I think setting up with "impact hands" caused issues throughout the whole swing. The impact position is a result of doing other things correctly and setting up with just the hands in that position will cause issues with the club face and plane, especially since you're most likely setting up with shoulders square and true impact has them open.
[/quote]


Exactly my problem!


Here's something I forgot to mention about the tour striker.

When I was first trying to learn to hit down on the ball I put a ball back of center and tried to hit down with a wedge. All the time I was doing this I kept thinking how the heck am I going to hit down with a longer club and the ball more forward.

Now get this-

After hitting with the tour striker all I focused on was leaning the shaft forward at impact.

I put the ball forward in my stance and I found I could still hit down as long as I got the shaft leaning forward. The more lean, the better the shot.

Boy did I feel stupid. Here I thought I was getting pretty good at hitting down and to really hit down all I needed to do was lean the shaft forward.

That's what the tour striker really taught me.

After my first day with the tour striker I felt like going up to a brick wall and pounding my head against it. Wasted the better part of the past few years trying to figure out how to hit down on the ball.

"Hit Down"- maybe the single biggest cause of producing a mental picture that ends up with a scoop release because of a really steep downswing.

I agree with all the comments so far. Time will tell with me as I continue to use the tour striker. But the idea of hitting down on the ball ( in my mind at least ) is far different that what the tour striker is teaching me to do. If this works, I should be able to improve my ball striking significantly. That is of course, that I don't have a million other swing flaws.

does the TS come with drills as well as pre round drills?
what about drills with just the left hand?

Now I want one of these.... It sounds like it would complement my pure ball striker nicely. To think before this thread I thought I was finally done with golf toys....

[quote name='jacksonlui' date='04 March 2010 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1267725131' post='2292870']
does the TS come with drills as well as pre round drills?
what about drills with just the left hand?
[/quote]

There's a video but I think you would be helped more by slicefixer's 9-3 drill.

This might not be exactly correct but here is my take on hitting with the pivot and why it is so important.

If you get into preimpact position, clubshaft parallel to the ground, with your hands at your right pocket and your right hand facing out directly away from your body (90 degrees away from the target) you get that position that you often see in instruction.

From there you're told to rotate to square the clubface up.

I couldn't do that in a thousand years!

But if you rotate your hips 45 degrees from that position then you can get the club down to the ground and square up by continuing to rotate.

So I think the hip rotation starts earlier and there is more rotation than you think prior to impact.

Here's another part IMO. If you use your rotation to square the clubface up into impact it will help keep you from straightening your right arm at impact (or before). Then you can then straighten the arm through impact and hold the angle in your right wrist while keeping a flw and your flying wedge past impact. Then all you have to do is rotate the forearms to keep from flipping.

Now this may not be exactly right but its the closest I can get to explaining what has helped me to lean the shaft forward when using the tour striker. Kind of a pushing action to move the clubshaft (not the clubhead) forward through impact.

I hope to have a video up soon because I really can't see what I'm doing, and even if I could I'm not sure what I'm looking at anyway.

[quote name='highergr0und' date='04 March 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1267725714' post='2292889']
Now I want one of these.... It sounds like it would complement my pure ball striker nicely. To think before this thread I thought I was finally done with golf toys....
[/quote]


I keep telling myself the same thing with the golf training aids, still my curiosity always gets the best of me in these situations

I can't wait to get my Tour Striker Pro which I ordered two days ago - esp after reading Zen Chili's thoughts/review where he suggests that its ideal to use off "old school/non-forgiving" mats http://www.zenchili.com/2010/01/09/review-tour-striker-pro/.
What I do sometimes esp where the range has the newer bristled type mat to make it more challenging is place my ball in the "standing portion" of the mat rather than the "hitting portion".

Being here in the GWN there could still be several weeks before any grass is available so having the Striker in my bag for some early season mat work will be IDEAL.

[quote name='Kerry_Bunker' date='04 March 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1267727596' post='2292963']
[quote name='highergr0und' date='04 March 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1267725714' post='2292889']
Now I want one of these.... It sounds like it would complement my pure ball striker nicely. To think before this thread I thought I was finally done with golf toys....
[/quote]


I keep telling myself the same thing with the golf training aids, still my curiosity always gets the best of me in these situations

I can't wait to get my Tour Striker Pro which I ordered two days ago - esp after reading Zen Chili's thoughts/review where he suggests that its ideal to use off "old school/non-forgiving" mats [url="http://www.zenchili.com/2010/01/09/review-tour-striker-pro/."]http://www.zenchili....r-striker-pro/.[/url]
What I do sometimes esp where the range has the newer bristled type mat to make it more challenging is place my ball in the "standing portion" of the mat rather than the "hitting portion".

Being here in the GWN there could still be several weeks before any grass is available so having the Striker in my bag for some early season mat work will be IDEAL.
[/quote]


I too have tried many many ( and i would just like to repeat many!) training aids. The only two that have help me with my ball striking:

1. Pure Ball Striker

2. Tour Striker

Now I'm not saying that all of the other things are bad, I'm just saying:

First Thing First- Learn how to deliver the entire club (handle, shaft, head) correctly into impact.

IMO it makes the other aids, alignment, balance, power, swingplane etc useful.

I agree that getting the Tour Striker now is a good idea, at least for me. I don't like hitting off of mats and when the grass finally gets green and grows I move off the mats. The TS is designed for the mats so it is great now at this time of season.
I really believe, time will tell, that the TS will help my swing. I have the PBS but I still am not sure how that thing works. I have seen videos but still not sure I have the idea.

[quote name='yasu123' date='04 March 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1267721904' post='2292731']
[quote name='highergr0und' date='04 March 2010 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1267715102' post='2292501']
I kind of struggled with that same setup issue.... and also with very inconsistent results. I've since switched to a traditional setup and am getting better results. While I'm no expert, I think setting up with "impact hands" caused issues throughout the whole swing. The impact position is a result of doing other things correctly and setting up with just the hands in that position will cause issues with the club face and plane, especially since you're most likely setting up with shoulders square and true impact has them open.
[/quote]


Exactly my problem!


Here's something I forgot to mention about the tour striker.

When I was first trying to learn to hit down on the ball I put a ball back of center and tried to hit down with a wedge. All the time I was doing this I kept thinking how the heck am I going to hit down with a longer club and the ball more forward.

Now get this-

After hitting with the tour striker all I focused on was leaning the shaft forward at impact.

I put the ball forward in my stance and I found I could still hit down as long as I got the shaft leaning forward. The more lean, the better the shot.

Boy did I feel stupid. Here I thought I was getting pretty good at hitting down and to really hit down all I needed to do was lean the shaft forward.

That's what the tour striker really taught me.

After my first day with the tour striker I felt like going up to a brick wall and pounding my head against it. Wasted the better part of the past few years trying to figure out how to hit down on the ball.

"Hit Down"- maybe the single biggest cause of producing a mental picture that ends up with a scoop release because of a really steep downswing.
[/quote]

you nailed it! i need to follow the same advice... hitting down and steep are two entirely different concepts. the key would be hitting down but in a shallow descent that keeps/maintains the correct angles. this would also allow for the ball to be struck on the correct grooves. i would and have come in too steep - ball contact higher on the face.

guys... i think i am sold. tour striker in my future. makes perfect sense.

[quote name='Denny62' date='04 March 2010 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1267729066' post='2293018']
I agree that getting the Tour Striker now is a good idea, at least for me. I don't like hitting off of mats and when the grass finally gets green and grows I move off the mats. The TS is designed for the mats so it is great now at this time of season.
I really believe, time will tell, that the TS will help my swing. I have the PBS but I still am not sure how that thing works. I have seen videos but still not sure I have the idea.
[/quote]

I think, and I am sure Jeff will correct me if I'm wrong, that the PBS tells you if you are accelerating the clubshaft as opposed to decelerating.

Here's why (just my opinion).

To accelerate an object you must apply force. F= mass x acceleration

So if you have an object and you keep pushing it with force you keep increasing the speed. Once you stop applying force the object continues to move (linear momentum) an is slowed down by opposing forces (ie friction of the ground, air resistance etc.).

If you are applying force to the clubshaft you feel pressure in the forefinger against the pbs.

If you stop adding force (and thus stop accelerating the shaft) you lose the pressure in the forefinger against the pbs.

If you lose the pressure you have stopped applying force (stopped accelerating) and now the clubshaft and head are pulling the arms. The arms are creating resistance and slowing the entire club down and you get the clubhead moving ahead of the hands. Now you are decelerating and lose all of the real power of the swing.

(ducking my head now to avoid all the comments about how wrong I am...)

BTW the tour striker isn't necessarily designed for mats. It's actually design for dry firm turf that is closely mown. Fluffy lies, soft turf or the really nice mats like the Country Club Elite mats aren't firm enough for tour striker practice. Being in the Northeast, the grass usually doesn't firm up enough, so mats are a good substitute. In fact when you get really good with the tour striker you should be able to hit it well from a lie board. There is no forgiveness there. Either you strike it properly or you don't.

[quote name='zenchili' date='04 March 2010 - 02:13 PM' timestamp='1267729999' post='2293055']
BTW the tour striker isn't necessarily designed for mats. It's actually design for dry firm turf that is closely mown. Fluffy lies, soft turf or the really nice mats like the Country Club Elite mats aren't firm enough for tour striker practice. Being in the Northeast, the grass usually doesn't firm up enough, so mats are a good substitute. In fact when you get really good with the tour striker you should be able to hit it well from a lie board. There is no forgiveness there. Either you strike it properly or you don't.
[/quote]


That is really an important point, thanks.

I have one of those birdie hitting boards and I am hitting off of it. People at the range give me funny looks but the first few times I thumped the board!

Thanks Yasu. I believe that description of the PBS is as good as any I have heard. The first time I used it, it kept falling off. Maybe the lack of constant pressure was the reason. Anyway thanks. Back to the Tour Striker.

[quote name='swanry30' date='04 March 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1267729202' post='2293025']
[quote name='yasu123' date='04 March 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1267721904' post='2292731']
[quote name='highergr0und' date='04 March 2010 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1267715102' post='2292501']
I kind of struggled with that same setup issue.... and also with very inconsistent results. I've since switched to a traditional setup and am getting better results. While I'm no expert, I think setting up with "impact hands" caused issues throughout the whole swing. The impact position is a result of doing other things correctly and setting up with just the hands in that position will cause issues with the club face and plane, especially since you're most likely setting up with shoulders square and true impact has them open.
[/quote]


Exactly my problem!


Here's something I forgot to mention about the tour striker.

When I was first trying to learn to hit down on the ball I put a ball back of center and tried to hit down with a wedge. All the time I was doing this I kept thinking how the heck am I going to hit down with a longer club and the ball more forward.

Now get this-

After hitting with the tour striker all I focused on was leaning the shaft forward at impact.

I put the ball forward in my stance and I found I could still hit down as long as I got the shaft leaning forward. The more lean, the better the shot.

Boy did I feel stupid. Here I thought I was getting pretty good at hitting down and to really hit down all I needed to do was lean the shaft forward.

That's what the tour striker really taught me.

After my first day with the tour striker I felt like going up to a brick wall and pounding my head against it. Wasted the better part of the past few years trying to figure out how to hit down on the ball.

"Hit Down"- maybe the single biggest cause of producing a mental picture that ends up with a scoop release because of a really steep downswing.
[/quote]

you nailed it! i need to follow the same advice... hitting down and steep are two entirely different concepts. the key would be hitting down but in a shallow descent that keeps/maintains the correct angles. this would also allow for the ball to be struck on the correct grooves. i would and have come in too steep - ball contact higher on the face.

guys... i think i am sold. tour striker in my future. makes perfect sense.
[/quote]


I use to think lag was all about angles. I think it was Monte S. on one of his blogs where he talked about creating too much lag.

To me lag now equals acceleration through impact. My sister's boyfriend has great angles into impact but he times his flip at impact. Too early and he gets this flat low pull. The sound of impact is really different too, kind of a thump, hard to explain.

I think Jeff has it right. If you can feel the pressure you know you are applying force. Lose the feeling in your index finger and you are slowing your swing and letting the club move ahead of the swing.

[quote name='Denny62' date='04 March 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1267730812' post='2293084']
Thanks Yasu. I believe that description of the PBS is as good as any I have heard. The first time I used it, it kept falling off. Maybe the lack of constant pressure was the reason. Anyway thanks. Back to the Tour Striker.
[/quote]


Try the dragaway of the club on the takeaway and then floatload at the top into your transition.

I know a lot of people are against floatloading but I think it can be useful to those of us who get real rigid at the top and keep the wrists too firm at the top of the backswing.

Floatloading can give you a better idea of maintaining the lag where the clubhead stays way behind the hands throughout the entire swing.

Once you get that feeling you can back off and try to feel like you have to work the clubshaft back in the takeaway (as opposed to really dragging it away), and then feel the hands leading the shaft back down in the transition (as opposed to really creating a lot more angle in wrists).

This can help create a more dynamic transition, kinda like snapping a whip, throwing a baseball, skipping a rock etc. Of course those are probably more exaggerated motions than what you really need in the transition but you get the idea of the club always slightly behind the hands throughout the entire swing through impact.

I don't see how this is a training "aid". It's a *feedback* aid, but it certainly isn't going to force anyone to swing a particular way.

A training aid would be something like the SwingJacket, or the Medicus.

[quote name='larrybud' date='04 March 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1267733070' post='2293177']
I don't see how this is a training "aid". It's a *feedback* aid, but it certainly isn't going to force anyone to swing a particular way.

A training aid would be something like the SwingJacket, or the Medicus.
[/quote]

LOL, your right.

I have a medicus. It trained me how to manipulate the club to hit with my OTT, steep flip. I ingrained it really well.

Try hitting a tour striker without any forward shaft lean. You'll have to force yourself to lean the shaft or all of your feedback will be a numbing vibration in your hands, LOL!

Yasu, thanks for your ideas. Wow we have gone from the proper use of the tour striker and the PBS to something I have not heard of before and that is float loading. Maybe I should search for this but I don't have the slightest clue as to what that is. Can you give me some idea as to what that means?

[quote name='Denny62' date='04 March 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1267734931' post='2293225']
Yasu, thanks for your ideas. Wow we have gone from the proper use of the tour striker and the PBS to something I have not heard of before and that is float loading. Maybe I should search for this but I don't have the slightest clue as to what that is. Can you give me some idea as to what that means?
[/quote]

PM me and i can get your address and send you a video.

Some great information on Float Loading.

I love it, even employing the "feel" in basic motion.

http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/03/look-at-float-loading-10-19-b.html

Kevin

just a quick question- Is is possible to use really light grip pressure and still hit down on the ball? Still have forward shaft lean? Still have pressure in the right index finger?
When swinging well I have very light grip pressure and good tempo-BUT I am a FLIPPER!