A Question for Wilson Experts

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I've been vaguely pondering this set of irons on the Japanese Yahoo! Auction site:

https://page.auction...tion/f137736566 Scroll down for lots of pictures

 

I have a few sets of MacGregor irons and a couple of Eighties' Japanese iron sets, but no Wilson (or Hogan for that matter, but that's another story). When I started playing golf in the mid-Eighties as a junior, I remember picking up a Wilson Dynapower 6i for a couple of quid to practice with, and I with that in mind, I am gently considering a set.

 

The set in the above link looks really interesting: Staff Tour Blades in BeCu! But I can find nothing about such a set being made. I know they made BeCu wedges, but I haven't seen anything about a full set. Any possible hits on an internet search leads back to that set. Were they a one-off for a pro (AT serial = Asian Tour?), or a set of Chinese fakes. The latter seems unlikely if this was indeed a set made in the Eighties to compete with the Ping Eye2 BeCus. I really don't know.

 

For what it's worth, I probably won't bid on this set, as part of the reason I want to try a set of old Wilsons is to compare the forged feeling to my Macs. Buying a set of BeCus would kind of defeat that object, wouldn't it?

[birly-shirly]

 

For what it's worth, I probably won't bid on this set, as part of the reason I want to try a set of old Wilsons is to compare the forged feeling to my Macs. Buying a set of BeCus would kind of defeat that object, wouldn't it?

 

Agreed. But what you should really be doing is buying those, and then a set of Fg17s, and then you can make 2 comparisons!

 

My experience of Hogan copper wedges is that they actually feel harder than their steel equivalents - though I'm currently playing a copper 60* which I really like.

 

Just my opinion, but I think those look very, very cool. I don't think they could have been exactly a one-off - they'd have had to cast those and that wouldn't make sense without a minimum production run - but no doubt that was a very limited run. I've never seen anything like those before - so for sheer uniqueness, if you have an appetite for that sort of thing, I think those could be worth a go.

 

The copper wedges that I've acquired are all in pretty good nick. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I suspect that BeCu may be more resistant to bag chatter and wear than chrome plated forgings. The stampings on those Wilsons still look very crisp, though it would be nice to see pictures of the faces too.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

For what it's worth, I probably won't bid on this set, as part of the reason I want to try a set of old Wilsons is to compare the forged feeling to my Macs. Buying a set of BeCus would kind of defeat that object, wouldn't it?

 

Agreed. But what you should really be doing is buying those, and then a set of Fg17s, and then you can make 2 comparisons!

 

My experience of Hogan copper wedges is that they actually feel harder than their steel equivalents - though I'm currently playing a copper 60* which I really like.

 

Just my opinion, but I think those look very, very cool. I don't think they could have been exactly a one-off - they'd have had to cast those and that wouldn't make sense without a minimum production run - but no doubt that was a very limited run. I've never seen anything like those before - so for sheer uniqueness, if you have an appetite for that sort of thing, I think those could be worth a go.

 

The copper wedges that I've acquired are all in pretty good nick. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I suspect that BeCu may be more resistant to bag chatter and wear than chrome plated forgings. The stampings on those Wilsons still look very crisp, though it would be nice to see pictures of the faces too.

 

Well, after I’d just managed to talk myself out of bidding for them, that was a most unhelpful post! :taunt:

I know what you mean, though; they look very, very cool. I'll be honest: these BeCu irons really did pique my interest, but it's a fairly decent sum for a set I can't find anything about. As for other Wilson sets up for sale right now, I've found a pretty reasonable set of the Tour Blades with unknown shafts, and some decent looking Dynapowers shafted with S500 (!!). So there's other options out there.

And if anyone can chime in with information on Aluminium-shafted Haig Ultras, that would be also helpful. I've never played with aluminium shafts.

[birly-shirly]

I thought you might say that! But then, you know we don't come here to be weaned off the thirst!

 

I get the price thing, and they're clearly not just an idle curiosity buy. Hard to put a value on something that rare. Tour issue stuff aside, an off the top of my head list of the rare sets of irons that I think might carry a premium would be '58 Dynapowers, '67 VIPs, TN87s, Precisions and Personals. I've seen all of those sets come up on ebay more frequently than what you're looking at now. The trouble is, all those other sets also have a legit playing pedigree. The FG17s that those BeCus are patterned after obviously have that - but the spangly copper ones? Not easy to fix on a fair price, IMO.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I thought you might say that! But then, you know we don't come here to be weaned off the thirst!

 

I get the price thing, and they're clearly not just an idle curiosity buy. Hard to put a value on something that rare. Tour issue stuff aside, an off the top of my head list of the rare sets of irons that I think might carry a premium would be '58 Dynapowers, '67 VIPs, TN87s, Precisions and Personals. I've seen all of those sets come up on ebay more frequently than what you're looking at now. The trouble is, all those other sets also have a legit playing pedigree. The FG17s that those BeCus are patterned after obviously have that - but the spangly copper ones? Not easy to fix on a fair price, IMO.

 

I know, I know; I come here for validation, not censure.

And your comparison with the '58 Dynapowers, '67 VIPs and so on is very accurate. The problem with this set is that there is nothing--literally nothing--else to go on.

If I go for the glass half full approach, they are turbo-charged FG17s; if I go for the glass half-empty approach, they are FG17 knockoffs.

The other painful factor is that I quite like the shafts (FM 5.5), even though they are a little on the soft side. I'll hit the ball a bit too high with them, but they'll feel great ;)

[Swingingk]

I'm with Birly in that those irons look very, very cool. I watch for Wilson stuff all the time and those are the only becu Staff irons I have ever seen. Ever. Definitely super unique and rare. I'd love to try em' but at $350+ USD they're a tad pricey for me. For that kind of scratch I could get 5 or 6 full sets of vintage forged irons. As an admitted Classic Clubs Wrx'r I know which way I'd go. Expensive cool stuff is all over the place. Inexpensive cool stuff gives me the most satisfaction. ?

 

Ps: does anyone else think the stampings have a slightly different font style than the usual Tour Blades? Might just be me - my battery is almost dead and my screen is pretty dim.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I'm with Birly in that those irons look very, very cool. I watch for Wilson stuff all the time and those are the only becu Staff irons I have ever seen. Ever. Definitely super unique and rare. I'd love to try em' but at $350+ USD they're a tad pricey for me. For that kind of scratch I could get 5 or 6 full sets of vintage forged irons. As an admitted Classic Clubs Wrx'r I know which way I'd go. Expensive cool stuff is all over the place. Inexpensive cool stuff gives me the most satisfaction.

 

Ps: does anyone else think the stampings have a slightly different font style than the usual Tour Blades? Might just be me - my battery is almost dead and my screen is pretty dim.

 

To me, the font looked a bit like the '76 Tour Blade font, although the letters on the '76 are joined up.

[defender2803]

I don't trust those at all.

 

The chatter marks look like standard tour blade chatter...my BeCU wedges don't look like that nor do my Shamrocks. At the hosel and ferrule meeting spot I see some silver looking shine. Why aren't there like 50 bids on this? The color seems off from BeCu. The 4i is way off and looks spotty from grease and an oil can rub. When you shine copper it turns copper...not lighter brown.

 

Same guy on buyee...http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/f137736566 with better pics.

 

I can be completely wrong but you can also ask for additional info...may be hard to get a response since they are in Japan. The seller does have a bunch of other clubs so he may be reselling what he has received and not even know how to check. Then again they could be a one off...I highly doubt it though...but these clubs would be worth 10x. The only Wilson Staff Tour Blade in BeCu ever produced...you don't say? :P

 

After taxes and shipping going to be closer to $530.

 

If you want to try out BeCu there are other sets than just Ping for much cheaper. For that cost you could buy a nice set of FG59 and then throw out all your other clubs.

 

To me they look like FG-17's.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I don't trust those at all.

 

The chatter marks look like standard tour blade chatter...my BeCU wedges don't look like that nor do my Shamrocks. At the hosel and ferrule meeting spot I see some silver looking shine. Why aren't there like 50 bids on this? The color seems off from BeCu. The 4i is way off and looks spotty from grease and an oil can rub. When you shine copper it turns copper...not lighter brown.

 

Same guy on buyee...http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/f137736566 with better pics.

 

I can be completely wrong but you can also ask for additional info...may be hard to get a response since they are in Japan. The seller does have a bunch of other clubs so he may be reselling what he has received and not even know how to check. Then again they could be a one off...I highly doubt it though...but these clubs would be worth 10x. The only Wilson Staff Tour Blade in BeCu ever produced...you don't say? :P

 

After taxes and shipping going to be closer to $530.

 

If you want to try out BeCu there are other sets than just Ping for much cheaper. For that cost you could buy a nice set of FG59 and then throw out all your other clubs.

 

To me they look like FG-17's.

 

Now that's the sort of reply my wallet and wife were hoping for!

Very good point about the silver looking shine where the ferrule meets the hosel. I hadn't noticed that, but if they really are BeCu, then that shouldn't be there.

Also, what you said about their real value if they were the only BeCu set of Wilson Tour Blades is very true. This is what bothers me the most. There can't possibly be only one set in existence. I know Wilson had a custom workshop with different grinds available to order, but we're talking about making head from a completely different material. Doing that as a one-off seems highly unlikely.

Do you think the "BeCu" might be just some sort of finish added afterwards, with the "Beryllium Copper" also stamped on?

 

The lettering looks a bit like the Fg-17 font...but oddly different. More angular. The lettering on the soles looks good, though.

To be honest, I wasn't really on the lookout for BeCu irons specifically. I have an original Ping Eye2 BeCu lob wedge back in Britain, and I don't think it feels any better than my other clubs...probably harder, if anything.

 

I could send the seller a question (I'm in Japan, and can speak/write Japanese), but I doubt he/she will tell me much about the clubs. Most likely a guy making of extra cash with a net business.

 

Anyway, thanks for the comments and opinions, much appreciated! I'm leery of jumping on these; in a way, they're just too good to be true.

[birly-shirly]

No way I'm letting you off the hook on these!

 

The silver shine is just glare/reflection. I think the guy says, or at least google translation says, that the seller polished the 4 iron only - so it will look a bit different. And it's hard for my eyes to see the "Beryllium Copper" stamping as an aftermarket addition.

 

Copper heads do vary in colour. My Hogans aren't all the same. I have a Special 55 which looks the nicest - dark brown with age and shiny where there's ball wear. But the Special SI and 60 have different surface finishes - and the underlying colour of the metal looks different too. Only the 55 resembles how Pings seem to age. I've seen photos of copper Mizunos that appear lighter in colour, and IIRC, back in the day Burns was making copper headed irons that were also much lighter.

 

Re the Tour Blade stamping - check out the font on Fg49s.

 

I think the rarity of these is probably more consistent with them being a high-end limited release than a knock-off. If you were knocking off BeCu irons, I think you'd be copying Pings not Wilsons. The shafts would have been seen as an upgrade BITD, and the hosel knurling and ferrules all look too nicely done for fakes, IMO.

 

But yeah, they're not cheap and it's your money...just playing devil's advocate

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

So I've got the devil (Birly-Shirly) on one shoulder and the angel (defender2803) on the other right now!

 

The seller does indeed say that he polished the 4i up a bit, which is why it looks different. I do think the Beryllium Copper stamping is significant. I'm also not sure would would have tried to fake these back then, or why. The guy I asked at a secondhand shop did say that back in the day, Wilsons were about the most expensive imported clubs in Japan.

 

I might have to take one for the team here, but I'm pretty wary of them.

[birly-shirly]

That would be jolly sporting if you would!

 

Could you glean anything that would put your mind at rest if the seller is the original owner? He might or might not have receipt or documentation, but you might get enough information about the original purchase that would give you some level of comfort.

 

Level of risk also depends on the selling site. I think you'd have some recourse if you bought fake or counterfeit goods on ebay. It might be difficult to prove provenance here, but if they turned out to be steel heads painted a coppery colour, you'd have a clear case of misdescription and a refund. I'm afraid I don't know anything about buyer protection on Yahoo though.

[defender2803]

They do look like the FG49 tour blade. Lighting can have many effects.

 

Japan stuff I have bought has always been authentic...but I don't go for the super rare or expensive.

 

Of course if you buy them and find out they are real and decide you don't like them I am sure one of us will take them off your hands. :)

[Corgi]

I worked with a buyer at Oshman's Sporting Goods in the early 90's who had a set of Staff BeCu Tour Blades that a manufacturer in China made for him on a visit. They did it to prove they could make any type of club head we wanted. The heads were slightly smaller than his regular Staffs and they had to put graphite shafts in to keep the weight down because the heads were heavier than than normal. He called them the "God Rods". :-) They felt fine but I couldn't hit them with the graphite shafts. Way too flimsy feeling. Looked awesome however. His had the dark brownish copper hue like Ping BeCu heads.

[rex235]

Catchy-

 

Nice find!

 

These Staff Tour Blade irons have the same stampings as the FG-51 model shown in 1981, 82, and 83...

 

The BeCu Wedges didn't show up until the late '80s as a catalog item.

 

These BeCu Staff Tour Blade irons may have been a specific request from an Asian Tour player to the Wilson Tour Representative. (Joe Phillips on the PGA Tour)

 

Check what Asian/European Tour Players were playing Wilson Staff Irons/Wedges on those respective tours.

 

Good Luck.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Catchy-

 

Nice find!

 

These Staff Tour Blade irons have the same stampings as the FG-51 model shown in 1981, 82, and 83...

 

The BeCu Wedges didn't show up until the late '80s as a catalog item.

 

These BeCu Staff Tour Blade irons may have been a specific request from an Asian Tour player to the Wilson Tour Representative. (Joe Phillips on the PGA Tour)

 

Check what Asian/European Tour Players were playing Wilson Staff Irons/Wedges on those respective tours.

 

Good Luck.

 

Interesting, and thanks for the information. Sadly, I won't be able to bid on them for a while, because I have just spent some of my hard-earned yen on another nice find....hopefully I will be able to post pictures in a few days.

 

Incidentally, I did find another set of BeCu Staff on sale somewhere. They were much more beaten up, and may have in fact had carbon shafts; I don't remember exactly, but there was something about the shafts that put me off.