Monte and GG vs AMG - hand path on the downswing

[bogeypro]

Using pressure sensors, when in the ds does pressure really start getting left? Trying to figure out if I have to much or too little to rotate/external the leg most effectively

 

You are really going to have to get on bodytrak or a swing catalyst to really feel it yourself but you are starting to get pressure left before your backswing is finished. Mike granato had me lift my left foot up off the ground when I started my backswing and place it back down immediately this got my pressure left at the right time. It felt to me that my pressure was left by p3 in my backswing.

 

Padraig Harrington has been working with GG. If you watch his swing from the Czeck open, you’d see him doing this very thing.

[Hilts1969]

Most, if not all of the “down” for many good players, comes from regaining flexion and not from “dropping it in the slot.”

 

To quote Hedley Lamar, “I hate that cliche.”

 

So not feeling any down isn’t neccessarily a bad thing for me then monte?

[MonteScheinblum]

Most, if not all of the “down” for many good players, comes from regaining flexion and not from “dropping it in the slot.”

 

To quote Hedley Lamar, “I hate that cliche.”

 

So not feeling any down isn’t neccessarily a bad thing for me then monte?

 

Correct...not necessarily bad.

[Silky]

In a very technical since they are all correct. The hands do work towards the target line as they work down. The guys at AMG are correct though that there is more down than out in top players and most poor players move too much out and not enough down.

 

You are spot on. I think this video really is what matters more.

 

 

 

I started doing this instead of hips...big difference for me!!

 

Preconditions during transition before I rev up the pivot main engines (pelvis and torso rotations around the spine): right arm externally rotated and partially extended with right forearm perpendicular to the spine; weight sufficiently shifted leftward to bring the left hip inline with the left leg in flexion ready to extend.

 

The external rotation of the right arm would affix the right upperarm to the torso as part of the pivot, to be rotated together with the pivot and also very importantly would maintain the right tension and torsion in the transverse plane between the pivot and the arms.

 

The right forearm being perpendicular to the spine would provide the right geometry for the leverage in counterbalancing and counteracting between the left side of the upperbody and the hands and club.

 

The weight shift not only feeds the left hip to be propelled later by the left leg but also tilts the spine bringing the right forearm further down to the shaft plane and also prepares for the counterbalancing between the golfer and the flying club during follow through.

 

Once the preconditions are established the golfer can fully rotate the pelvis and then the torso to propel the hands and club.

 

That is my current understanding of Hogan's free ride down, Moe's Master Move, Moehogan's CW rotation of the right arm and how the hand path is determined during transition.

 

Just put this in google translate and my iPad exploded

 

 

Ha ha ha, real sorry. A picture really is really worth a thousand words. A video should be worth a hundred thousand words.

 

Please notice the motion of Hogan's right forearm.

 

[Hilts1969]

In a very technical since they are all correct. The hands do work towards the target line as they work down. The guys at AMG are correct though that there is more down than out in top players and most poor players move too much out and not enough down.

 

You are spot on. I think this video really is what matters more.

 

 

 

I started doing this instead of hips...big difference for me!!

 

Preconditions during transition before I rev up the pivot main engines (pelvis and torso rotations around the spine): right arm externally rotated and partially extended with right forearm perpendicular to the spine; weight sufficiently shifted leftward to bring the left hip inline with the left leg in flexion ready to extend.

 

The external rotation of the right arm would affix the right upperarm to the torso as part of the pivot, to be rotated together with the pivot and also very importantly would maintain the right tension and torsion in the transverse plane between the pivot and the arms.

 

The right forearm being perpendicular to the spine would provide the right geometry for the leverage in counterbalancing and counteracting between the left side of the upperbody and the hands and club.

 

The weight shift not only feeds the left hip to be propelled later by the left leg but also tilts the spine bringing the right forearm further down to the shaft plane and also prepares for the counterbalancing between the golfer and the flying club during follow through.

 

Once the preconditions are established the golfer can fully rotate the pelvis and then the torso to propel the hands and club.

 

That is my current understanding of Hogan's free ride down, Moe's Master Move, Moehogan's CW rotation of the right arm and how the hand path is determined during transition.

 

Just put this in google translate and my iPad exploded

 

 

Ha ha ha, real sorry. A picture really is really worth a thousand words. A video should be worth a hundred thousand words.

 

Please notice the motion of Hogan's right forearm.

 

 

Just kidding mate, that middle picture is pretty much what I’m feeling forward, out and high. He’s obviously stood up but I’m feeling that bent over

[NikeGolferTX]

It's less cut and dry than this is the way to fix everyone.

 

Some need more down, some need more out. Some need to keep left shoulder lower, some need to release left arm. Some need more secondary, some need less.

 

A guy that sees this video, that has a gap between is right elbow and torso at 6 and a path 5-10 right and thinks he needs more down. Dead. A guy who is badly OTT with his hand path that tries to release his left arm...worse than dead.

It' all about matchups.

 

Everyone is a case by case scenario and not one concept can apply to everyone.

[Hilts1969]

Is it possible to come from the inside but trackman numbers show a out to in swing

[golfarb1]

In a very technical since they are all correct. The hands do work towards the target line as they work down. The guys at AMG are correct though that there is more down than out in top players and most poor players move too much out and not enough down.

 

You are spot on. I think this video really is what matters more.

 

 

 

I started doing this instead of hips...big difference for me!!

 

Preconditions during transition before I rev up the pivot main engines (pelvis and torso rotations around the spine): right arm externally rotated and partially extended with right forearm perpendicular to the spine; weight sufficiently shifted leftward to bring the left hip inline with the left leg in flexion ready to extend.

 

The external rotation of the right arm would affix the right upperarm to the torso as part of the pivot, to be rotated together with the pivot and also very importantly would maintain the right tension and torsion in the transverse plane between the pivot and the arms.

 

The right forearm being perpendicular to the spine would provide the right geometry for the leverage in counterbalancing and counteracting between the left side of the upperbody and the hands and club.

 

The weight shift not only feeds the left hip to be propelled later by the left leg but also tilts the spine bringing the right forearm further down to the shaft plane and also prepares for the counterbalancing between the golfer and the flying club during follow through.

 

Once the preconditions are established the golfer can fully rotate the pelvis and then the torso to propel the hands and club.

 

That is my current understanding of Hogan's free ride down, Moe's Master Move, Moehogan's CW rotation of the right arm and how the hand path is determined during transition.

Some anatomical corrections

The pelvis for all intent and purposes can NOT ROTATE .The two sacroiliac joints (SI) in the pelvis connect the sacrum or lower triangular bone of the spine to the large bones of the pelvis.Theses two SI joints have very limited range of motion ~ 2-4 mm and this mainly happens during during walking

 

External right shoulder rotation rotates the humerus bone in the upper arm resulting in the right elbow moving out towards the target line

Right shoulder traverse adduction brings the right arm towards the torso.

[Silky]

In a very technical since they are all correct. The hands do work towards the target line as they work down. The guys at AMG are correct though that there is more down than out in top players and most poor players move too much out and not enough down.

 

You are spot on. I think this video really is what matters more.

 

 

 

I started doing this instead of hips...big difference for me!!

 

Preconditions during transition before I rev up the pivot main engines (pelvis and torso rotations around the spine): right arm externally rotated and partially extended with right forearm perpendicular to the spine; weight sufficiently shifted leftward to bring the left hip inline with the left leg in flexion ready to extend.

 

The external rotation of the right arm would affix the right upperarm to the torso as part of the pivot, to be rotated together with the pivot and also very importantly would maintain the right tension and torsion in the transverse plane between the pivot and the arms.

 

The right forearm being perpendicular to the spine would provide the right geometry for the leverage in counterbalancing and counteracting between the left side of the upperbody and the hands and club.

 

The weight shift not only feeds the left hip to be propelled later by the left leg but also tilts the spine bringing the right forearm further down to the shaft plane and also prepares for the counterbalancing between the golfer and the flying club during follow through.

 

Once the preconditions are established the golfer can fully rotate the pelvis and then the torso to propel the hands and club.

 

That is my current understanding of Hogan's free ride down, Moe's Master Move, Moehogan's CW rotation of the right arm and how the hand path is determined during transition.

Some anatomical corrections

The pelvis for all intent and purposes can NOT ROTATE .The two sacroiliac joints (SI) in the pelvis connect the sacrum or lower triangular bone of the spine to the large bones of the pelvis.Theses two SI joints have very limited range of motion ~ 2-4 mm and this mainly happens during during walking

 

External right shoulder rotation rotates the humerus bone in the upper arm resulting in the right elbow moving out towards the target line

Right shoulder traverse adduction brings the right arm towards the torso.

 

Thanks, I really suck at anatomy - bones and muscles.

By pelvis rotation, I meant as relative to the ground with angular momentum, not with respect to the lumbar spine.

[golfarb1]

In a very technical since they are all correct. The hands do work towards the target line as they work down. The guys at AMG are correct though that there is more down than out in top players and most poor players move too much out and not enough down.

 

You are spot on. I think this video really is what matters more.

 

 

 

I started doing this instead of hips...big difference for me!!

 

Preconditions during transition before I rev up the pivot main engines (pelvis and torso rotations around the spine): right arm externally rotated and partially extended with right forearm perpendicular to the spine; weight sufficiently shifted leftward to bring the left hip inline with the left leg in flexion ready to extend.

 

The external rotation of the right arm would affix the right upperarm to the torso as part of the pivot, to be rotated together with the pivot and also very importantly would maintain the right tension and torsion in the transverse plane between the pivot and the arms.

 

The right forearm being perpendicular to the spine would provide the right geometry for the leverage in counterbalancing and counteracting between the left side of the upperbody and the hands and club.

 

The weight shift not only feeds the left hip to be propelled later by the left leg but also tilts the spine bringing the right forearm further down to the shaft plane and also prepares for the counterbalancing between the golfer and the flying club during follow through.

 

Once the preconditions are established the golfer can fully rotate the pelvis and then the torso to propel the hands and club.

 

That is my current understanding of Hogan's free ride down, Moe's Master Move, Moehogan's CW rotation of the right arm and how the hand path is determined during transition.

Some anatomical corrections

The pelvis for all intent and purposes can NOT ROTATE .The two sacroiliac joints (SI) in the pelvis connect the sacrum or lower triangular bone of the spine to the large bones of the pelvis.Theses two SI joints have very limited range of motion ~ 2-4 mm and this mainly happens during during walking

 

External right shoulder rotation rotates the humerus bone in the upper arm resulting in the right elbow moving out towards the target line

Right shoulder traverse adduction brings the right arm towards the torso.

 

Thanks, I really suck at anatomy - bones and muscles.

By pelvis rotation, I meant as relative to the ground with angular momentum, not with respect to the lumbar spine.

Silky

I had no intention of singling you,so I apologize to you .

MOST instructors ,who should know better use the same incorrect language.

And it hardly ends at the two movements that I cited above.

 

Incorrectly used terms or even terms MADE UP by golf instructors can easily to lead to suggestions that are either anatomically impossible or are contrary to the ways that our bodies move.

An example of a made up golf term is " inclination to the ground" , a term that I never saw until I saw a video on youtube.Maybe the instructor knew what he meant ,but I did not even after studying the video.

Another more serious example,I have read numerous times is that the spine extends and flexes during the backswing and downswing.This violates a basic principle in spinal movement that " the spine is at its strongest .most stable and least susceptible to injury when it is NEITHER flexed NOR extended but in between" .But golf instructors persist in recommending movements that violate this basic principle.

[hafnia]

On 8/29/2018 at 8:17 PM, Hilts1969 said:

 

 

 

 

Anyone else work on this? What are the dangers I need to look out for?

 

As a golfer who has suffered pretty serious bouts of shanking this move has always scared me to death. I have only hit a few balls inside so far(no shanks) and am hitting the range tomorrow.

 

I presume getting hands deep on the backswing and holding back right hip and shoulder is key. I was trying the Bradley feeling of trying to get the hands right over the ball and was amazed I actually not the ball but I did. I hit a few on the thin side. Just wondering what to look out for.

 

If loads of golfers similar to me watched the 2 videos on this post and truly understood and tried them then they would be genuinely on their way......  we all probably get a few aha moments which fade to nothing.... this isn't one of them for me.

 

I'm notorious for fat shots, two way misses, a huge divot maker and not getting weight on front foot.....  @MonteScheinblum nails this.  I bought broomforce and no turn cast and I use the no turn when I'm completely lost in the middle of a round,  so this tells you how many different thoughts I've got in my head.  

 

The reality is I don't get my hands in front of me in my downswing and that is because the fear of shanking after having had them for near 2 years.  I now understand the skimming stone theory but for me the baseball swing more sense too.  Genuinely excited