No Laying Up 135 - Mark Broadie - Strokes Gained

stanger37 · April 26, 2018

Didnt see a topic on this podcast already, maybe looking wrong sections. But if you haven't listened to this podcast it is a pretty interesting listen. Delves into why FIR and GIR are misleading stats to a degree and how he came up with, and explains strokes gained. Which, if you are like me, I was always pretty confused when I saw those stats pop up just off of a drive on a par 4.

What I felt was the most interesting part and I see this debated in the equipment section once in a while, he brings up how shouldnt overspend on a putter and using the argument of, "its the most used club in the bag" isn't legitimate. Goes on to say that even at tour average from 8-30ft, it is a 2 putt from there. So if you are a tour pro and going against an amateur, would you rather face the amateur on the green only over 9 holes? or face them from like 200yd to the green? the tour pro will take the 200yd to the green everytime because amateur has a chance to make the 30ft putts where as put them 200yds out, the tour pro is so much more accurate, they'll win everytime.

stresses that working on accuracy from 200-150yds out is just as, if not more important, than working on your short game because that is where a lot of strokes are lost, where you may think you lose a lot on the green instead. I am a weekend golfer, I'll shoot 83-85 on a good day, 88-91 on a bad day. I always felt I lost strokes on the green but listening to this made me realize, how many greens am I hitting from 170 out to even give myself a 2-putt par chance? instead 2-putt for bogie and losing strokes.

Anywhos...enough of the ramble. It is a good quick 60 minute or so listen that is insightful on some stats and how they are generated.

WidespreadPanic · April 26, 2018

Great listen, and I fully agree. I can have a good round, sometimes great, even with a mediocre putter. If I'm hitting my irons well, I'll have a great round almost every time. I do think that chipping around the green and putts inside 6 feet are extremely important too though.

Santiago Golf · April 26, 2018

If you wanna get better you to get rid of penalty shots off the tee (this includes punch outs), almost always getting on the green in one from 75 yards and in, and getting rid of 3 putts and missing from inside 3 feet.

To get good, its getting better and better at ball striking. Getting your iron play better in going to help so much! If not about being able to shape shots and controlling trajs; it helps, but its a must. Most important thing is getting your miss irons to leave around the green, instead of way short and being able to control your distance.

Randy_Bobandy · April 26, 2018

So I'm currently reading Mark Broadie's book "Every Shot Counts" and the data that he provides validated a lot of what I was seeing in my game. All my best rounds have been when I hit driver straight and long (this also generally means I hit my irons straight), and don't miss short putts (inside 4 feet)

WidespreadPanic · April 26, 2018

4ft putts make or break a round.

There are so many things that can lead to a great round or a bad round, but I've started to think a lot more about my misses. I'm not going to hit every shot where I want, but managing those that I miss is huge. Missing in the right spot can save a lot of strokes.

bladehunter · April 26, 2018

I detest this topic. Not shot at anyone. But it takes it all folks. How many times have we seen Rory or Jordan prove this ? You can strike it perfectly. And you won’t win without birdie putts. Period. A stroke isn’t gained until the putt drops. And nobody hits it close enough to have enough gimmes to win.

Randy_Bobandy · April 26, 2018

I detest this topic. Not shot at anyone. But it takes it all folks. How many times have we seen Rory or Jordan prove this ? You can strike it perfectly. And you won't win without birdie putts. Period. A stroke isn't gained until the putt drops. And nobody hits it close enough to have enough gimmes to win.

You're missing the entire point that Broadie is making. Statistically, hitting it closer means that you have shorter putts, and over the course of an entire round you will drop a few more putts than you would if you were farther away. Speaking of Rory or Jordan "proving it", in Broadie's book he shows the strokes gained tee-to-green and strokes gained putting for all the tour winners since they started the stats. You can clearly see that there is a bias towards guys having more strokes gained tee-to-green than putting. Most of them were still gaining strokes on the greens, but they were clearly gaining MORE strokes tee-to-green.The takeaway from all this is that putting isn't quite as important as people have traditionally made it seem. Also, one of the bigger takeaways for me was how good amateurs can be at putting.

stanger37 · April 27, 2018

I detest this topic. Not shot at anyone. But it takes it all folks. How many times have we seen Rory or Jordan prove this ? You can strike it perfectly. And you won't win without birdie putts. Period. A stroke isn't gained until the putt drops. And nobody hits it close enough to have enough gimmes to win.

You're missing the entire point that Broadie is making. Statistically, hitting it closer means that you have shorter putts, and over the course of an entire round you will drop a few more putts than you would if you were farther away. Speaking of Rory or Jordan "proving it", in Broadie's book he shows the strokes gained tee-to-green and strokes gained putting for all the tour winners since they started the stats. You can clearly see that there is a bias towards guys having more strokes gained tee-to-green than putting. Most of them were still gaining strokes on the greens, but they were clearly gaining MORE strokes tee-to-green.The takeaway from all this is that putting isn't quite as important as people have traditionally made it seem. Also, one of the bigger takeaways for me was how good amateurs can be at putting.

I 100% agree it takes it all to win.

But if you aren't accurate from 150-200 yards, how many realistic birdie putts are you leaving yourself? that is the point of it all. If you are leaving it 35ft away just off the green on your 2nd into a par 4...chances are you are making 4-5. If you leave it 10-30ft away on that same shot, you are going to make a few birdies throughout the round. Leaving yourself 50-100yds on par 5s, long accurate 2nd shots, get you closer for chance at birdie. I believe that is his point. Still have to "putt for dough" but "driving it for show" leads to those putts.