General Question/Confusion

[bam3352]

All-

 

I don't ask many questions about equipment but need some help with my driver.  Over this offseason I made a conscious effort to hit more balls and do some light training to get my swing speed with the driver up a bit.  Last year I was in the 109-112 range. Ball speed basically straddled 160. Right now I'm between 115-118 and Ball speed is low 170's.  I have a mevo plus and use a trackman at my club 2-3 times a month so I know the swing speed and ball speeds are pretty accurate as they're verified by two different machines and the results on each are almost identical.  

 

The last time I was on the trackman the assistant pro was sitting there and said I am losing tons of distance because my launch angle is too high (about 16) and my spin is too high.  He said my angle of attack with the driver is too positive.  It's 2-3.  He says I need to be -1 to level.  This goes against everything I've read and worked on the past couple years.  My questions are as follows:

 

1.  For all you guys who really can hit it far, do you really not want a positive angle of attack with the driver?

 

2.  I agree that spin is an issue with more clubhead speed now.  Generally I am somewhere in the mid 3,000's.  What do I want to change first with my driver? Shaft of Loft? I am not a huge club changer.  Do I want to look at the shaft or loft first.  Right now I play a G400 LST 10 set on the big minus, which makes the loft 9.  Shaft is an AD-BB 6X.  

 

3.  Do I want to look at different shafts first or should I look for a G400 LST 8.5 degree head and see if that brings things down?  

 

4.  If it is a shaft issue, what would you guys recommend?  Before gaining extra club head speed the AD-BB was perfect.  I loved the feel and the flight was very good for me. Other shafts I've used are Oban Devotion 6 05, Speeder TS 6.3 and a non TS Motore Speeder 7.2 X that I liked but prefer the 60 gram range.  I tell you this because I don't like super still feeling shafts.  I don't like the Speeder TS .2 and did not like the Hazrdus Black Feel.  I'm considering AD-XC but open to recs.  

 

5.  I'd consider a newer Ping head but likely won't consider other manufacturers.  I've used ping drivers since the G25 and just prefer their look and feel.  I know they are not the longest out there but they generally work for me.  Anyone have any opinions if the G410 or 425 LS models are worth looking at as an upgrade?  It's a different adapter so there's that whole issue with less shafts to try with the newer heads as I already have a few.  

 

If my angle of attack is actually too positive, that's fine too.  Just means I need to change the swing a fair bit with just the driver.  

[BustedBogeyMachine]

1. Yes. 1-3* up is optimum. 

 

2. Go low/low. Old school ain’t bad. PX Black 7.0 is as stout and low spin as you can get. I’ll expand more...

 

3. Forget all that. You are coming in with the face open if you’re launching 16*. 

 

4. It’s not. If it is I’d go low/low. You shouldn’t launch at 16*. That’s a swing issue not an equipment problem. 

 

5. Your Asst Pro isn’t well studied. We should all strive to be 2-3* up. That’s awesome. Anyone suggesting you hit driver -1 into the ball isn’t fit to teach my dog (unless she’s hitting 5* down-she wouldn’t because I've taught her better). 

[Myherobobhope]

@BustedBogeyMachineis correct... no one in long drive has a negative angle of attack... if you are looking to truly optimize distance, a positive aoa is a good place to start. PGA guys have 0 or negative aoa because they aren’t optimizing distance over everything else... 

 

if you like ping, stay with ping. Get a low spin head if possible. Plenty of great shafts out there across the spectrum. I like the feel of the aldila silver... holds up when I go after it, doesn’t feel like rebar when I don’t. 
 

for me, finding the best shaft was just buying different shafts and trying them. I like 70+ shafts in X, so fitting carts aren’t awesome for me. Then never having midsize grips is also an issue.

 

i was around 115 last season, and am hoping to get over 120 this season through training. I use the fit for golf app. Highly recommend. 
 

i hurt my back in June and haven’t been able to chase distance since... it’s hopefully healed now, and I’ll have access to a launch monitor to see my swing numbers.

 

im happy to dig into swing numbers, and ball flight numbers if you want to post them...

 

generically, you want to be slightly in to out without a huge variance between face and path. The more then all curves, the less it travels down the course. Bubba is cool and all, but that 50 yards of movement could be energy used propelling the ball forward.

[BSTRONG1313]

I've been working on getting into long drive this winter. Club speed coming close to 130 now and ball speed is just to 190. 

 

If you want distance, you need to launch it high, many tour pros are negative into the ball but those ones aren't searching for distance. So like others have said, you are probably just fine on angle of attack. I'm actually a little little higher than you are. 

 

I'm curious what your dynamic loft is. Maybe you are increasing loft at impact which is creating extra spin. You want your angle of attack and dynamic loft to be as close as possible. On GCquad that's about 4-6 degrees of difference but trackman measures the club head differently so I'm not sure what a good number there is. This allows you to launch it high with low spin and you will also see ball speed increases. 

 

Loft and strike make the biggest dent in spin. Higher in the face decreases spin lower increases spin. I personally have never seen huge spin differences by changing shafts, but I know it makes a difference for some. 

 

I use a g410 lst as my gamer and it's great but I don't think its much better than g400. Ping's aren't the lowest spin heads out there but I'm not sure any driver and shaft combo is going to take you down to optimal spin from the mid 3000's. I would start by checking your dynamic loft. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by BSTRONG1313

[ElliotBradleyGolf]

Budget suggestion would be to ensure you're hitting just above the middle of the face to knock some of the spin off with gear effect. If that fails loft would be the obvious simple change.

[Tufph]

I would say the spin is the biggest issue. My ball speed is hovering around 165mph with 2000-2200 spin on good hits.

I'm a little guy and hit up almost +6°. I was spinning it around 2800-3300 and tried a boat load of shafts. What a waste of money that was. 

The best thing to kill spin for me was the club head. I've tried epic flash sz and game a g410 lst 9° turned down to 8. Ping was definitely more forgiving. The epic was really low spin for me.

 

Also @bstrong1313 is right on the money with checking your dynamic loft.

[BustedBogeyMachine]

On 3/2/2021 at 8:56 AM, BSTRONG1313 said:

I've been working on getting into long drive this winter. Club speed coming close to 130 now and ball speed is just to 190. 

 

 

 

I did the math, lol. It seemed low BS for CHS but you said getting close to 130. So 190 is about right. You should occasionally uncork one at 195 once you hit 130. 

 

You start getting into the 130’s and you need specialized gear. An old Brute LD driver at 4-5* loft would be a good cheap place to start. They’re stout. Haven’t had the best luck with their customer service but sometimes you get what you pay for. I got a 2.5* with a Spectre XXX flex shaft and a 3.5* with a XX flex shaft for about $60 each.  You’ll need to be hitting 5-6* up, and forget hitting a normal driver on the same range session. To different swings and two different mindsets. 

 

Damn. I’ve become the old guy that’s giving advice that can’t hit 120 CHS to save his life anymore. I am working out hardcore to build the explosion again after all the trauma. Once the body is in shape I am going to go into 3 months hardcore overspeed training. Probably spend this season somewhat frustrated and do the overspeed next winter after getting my body into shape. Like to at least get into the playing 120-125 range again. 

 

Golf is so so much easier for me with bomb and gouge. 

 

Theres a lot of better clubs out there than those old brutes. But they’ll get the job down and are a cheap date to see what you can hit. 

 

Upward angle of attack. If you’re down 2.5 on a 2.5* driver, ehhh. Not great, 🤣 

 

different mindset, different swing. If your hitting 130 and haven’t overspeed trained, do so. It’s a workout but it’s really easy. 

[BSTRONG1313]

5 minutes ago, BustedBogeyMachine said:

 

I did the math, lol. It seemed low BS for CHS but you said getting close to 130. So 190 is about right. You should occasionally uncork one at 195 once you hit 130. 

 

You start getting into the 130’s and you need specialized gear. An old Brute LD driver at 4-5* loft would be a good cheap place to start. They’re stout. Haven’t had the best luck with their customer service but sometimes you get what you pay for. I got a 2.5* with a Spectre XXX flex shaft and a 3.5* with a XX flex shaft for about $60 each.  You’ll need to be hitting 5-6* up, and forget hitting a normal driver on the same range session. To different swings and two different mindsets. 

 

Damn. I’ve become the old guy that’s giving advice that can’t hit 120 CHS to save his life anymore. I am working out hardcore to build the explosion again after all the trauma. Once the body is in shape I am going to go into 3 months hardcore overspeed training. Probably spend this season somewhat frustrated and do the overspeed next winter after getting my body into shape. Like to at least get into the playing 120-125 range again. 

 

Golf is so so much easier for me with bomb and gouge. 

 

Theres a lot of better clubs out there than those old brutes. But they’ll get the job down and are a cheap date to see what you can hit. 

 

Upward angle of attack. If you’re down 2.5 on a 2.5* driver, ehhh. Not great, 🤣 

 

different mindset, different swing. If your hitting 130 and haven’t overspeed trained, do so. It’s a workout but it’s really easy. 

 

Thanks Busted,

 

I have a callaway epic flash LD head I've just started to use. The 130 club head speed is from foresight which measures differently than trackman. So it's about 1.47 instead of 1.50 optimum smash at those speeds on foresight from what I've heard from other guys. The angle of attack is different between the two as well. Foresight I'm about 5* up which is about 3 on trackman. Was just helping the OP with his question. 

 

I've only been going for about 2 months and just started overspeed training and built my long drive club. I'm expecting CHS to be about 137 or so in about a month or two with the extra shaft length and some overspeed training. I hope I can get there to at least compete in the amatuer PLD events this year.