Easy swing technique for high handicap golfers ready to try something different

[iacas]

5 hours ago, BioG said:

But in various degrees don't you think? Like some of the images below.

 

I don't know what you're asking, and I'm not sure you do either.

 

Amateur golfers can turn, tilt, and extend, yes. I see them do it every day. Some over-do or under-do different parts of it, but they can basically all do it.

 

The S&T spectrum you posted is an extension spectrum, even though for the longest time (and maybe they still do) they talked about it as a left tilt spectrum, which it isn't.

[chipa]

Here is an excerpt from Ben Hogan's "5 Lessons the Modern Fundamentlas of Golf"

 

ABOVE ALL, HIS KNEES MUST BE PROPERLY FLEXED. THE LEGS MUST BE SUPPLE BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY MUST HAVE THIS LIVE TENSION. The rest of the body will pick up this athletic temper from the legs.

 

 

Here is a link from a Golfwrx thread that has the complete chapter apparently:

 

 

[Jeselnik]

12 hours ago, chipa said:

Here is an excerpt from Ben Hogan's "5 Lessons the Modern Fundamentlas of Golf"

 

ABOVE ALL, HIS KNEES MUST BE PROPERLY FLEXED. THE LEGS MUST BE SUPPLE BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY MUST HAVE THIS LIVE TENSION. The rest of the body will pick up this athletic temper from the legs.

 

 

Here is a link from a Golfwrx thread that has the complete chapter apparently:

 

 

You are promoting ground forces in the BS/DS.  Would do well to simultaneously promote spine mobility.  People lose mobility for various reasons, the majority can regain more than adequate amounts of mobility for golf.  Not going to write a book, avoid inflammatory foods and wake up the muscles of spine and shoulder blades with simple exercises.

 

Other fun stuff.  
http://www.theswingengineer.com/power_package.html

 

 

[chipa]

Here is another excerpt from page 71 of Ben Hogan's "5 Lessons the Modern Fundamentlas of Golf"

 

When you have this stored-up tension in the muscles between the hips and shoulders (and in the muscles of the thighs that work with the hips), you have something with which you can begin the downswing. (This tension will, in fact, automatically help to pull you down into the ball). As the hips turn back to the left, this turning motion increases their tension. It is this increased tension that unwinds the upper part of the body. It unwinds the shoulder, the arms and the hands in that order, the correct order. It helps the swing so much it makes it almost automatic.

 

 

It is clear that the when the legs and hips are able to load correctly the shoulders and back can also load correctly, thus obligating the golfer to release this tension in the legs and hips first at the start of the downswing. This is why almost every pro squats and drops their head significantly in reaction to the release of this tension, and not only that it's automatic as Ben Hogan points out.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by chipa

[iacas]

10 hours ago, BioG said:

When you say 'extension spectrum'

 

S&T folks used to produce "spectrums" or "ranges" of things. What you posted is an "extension spectrum" meaning the left image is the least extended and the right image is the most extended.

 

That's all I meant by "extension spectrum."

[chipa]

Good afternoon friends. I have an update. I bought an YUPITERU ATLAS GST-5GL based on reviews on Golfwrx and Youtube and am now able to confirm my clubhead speed. However, I still am strengthening my knees and because of that I can only swing about 10 times a day at home, more at the range for some reason.

 

Today I started at 102 mph with my 43" 3w and finished 10 swings later at almost 112 mph.

 

The good thing about our technique is it doesn't require a lot of practice swings to get to max clubhead speed and of course it is very simple once one learns the setup and takeaway sequence.

 

For those who would like to hit the ball as far as they are physically capable of I would recommend looking at my detailed posts. I can answer questions too. Very soon I will go to the range and try to break 120 with my driver and record it in slow motion with my iphone. The Yupertu measures ball speed as well so that should give one an idea of the impact efficiency.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by chipa

[chipa]

Please note that while my friend's (Javier) swing is a work in progress and doesn't have as vigorous leg action as he could he nonetheless reached 106 with his 44.5" driver with a natural draw flight.

 

Javier is busy in his family business so he is lucky to practice once a month. We will start practicing more and publish Javier's swing progression.

 

I feel like most adult men up to 40 should be able to reach 110 mph with their driver relatively easily and consistently with a natural draw flight. Those with more athletic ability and flexibility as well as swing discipline should be able to hit 130 + consistently.

Edited May 9, 2023 by chipa

[chipa]

"Shirtsleeve" swing technique:

1. Setup: Elbows bent forearms pressed together against shaft slightly forward of center with "Hogan" "active/flexed" leg tension left foot turned out slightly and the right leg slightly farther to the right - weight mostly on balls of feet butt of left hands sits on the top of the grip with very light grip.

2. Swing - W/o disturbing weight distribution of legs and feet lower hands while doing a forward press "swing trigger" then the left upper arm takes over on the backswing, it needs to go out in front of the body then back in front of the chest as the hands trace down initially then up to over the right shoulder "Torres". The goal is to not disturb the pressure of the feet during the initial takeaway.

 

Notes:

1. Only swing thought after swing trigger - extend left arm at shirt sleeve when reaching left hand over right shoulder "Shirtsleeve technique".

2. The upper left arm move "Shirtsleeve technique" can be practiced independently without a club, sitting down for instance

3. The correct feet tension can be felt by doing very short hops on the balls of the feet then holding the same feeling of pressure on the front of the feet and then taking three practice swings with the grip very loose in order to not disturb the same pressure on the feet and on the 3rd swing actively do the "Shirtsleeve" move. From there the swing should be done within a matter of seconds to not lose the feel of the legs resisting, this way this is not a learned technique as much as it is a setup technique.

Edited May 11, 2023 by chipa

[Nickc]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:01 AM, chipa said:

 

Good morning. The tension in the legs would be the same if you were taking small hops, or running in place or hopping from side to side a little. The real way to feel this is to do the practice swing as described and shown in the video. It should feel like the legs aren't moving but they will because it's flexible tension, not rigid.

 

In order for this to work the club must be gripped with the butt of the hand on the top of the grip and the arms rolled forward on the chest slightly so a connection is created between the arms and hands. The grip must be very light and its ok if the left hand opens on the backswing like Bobby Jones shows in his instructional videos. The point of the practice swing is to feel the legs and a tight grip will break that down easily.

Ok understand the idea of active legs to ensure momentum as with forward press.

but I still don't understand why you are using the word 'resisting'. If you are resisting you are resisting something so what are your legs resisting?

[Jeselnik]

14 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Ok understand the idea of active legs to ensure momentum as with forward press.

but I still don't understand why you are using the word 'resisting'. If you are resisting you are resisting something so what are your legs resisting?

He is probably using a delayed hip turn, shoulders pull hips, foot pressure and knee bend directs hips, this is for flexible people.  Guessing he’ll want to explore a standard hip turn in the future, easier on the legs and range of motion.  He’s learning, thinking, exploring which is cool.

 

JNIK

[RoyalTroon]

42 minutes ago, Jeselnik said:

 He’s learning, thinking, exploring which is cool.

 

It really is and that's awesome, and a sure sign of a relative newbie.  I think most pass through similar discovery portals when starting out and I hope chipa sticks around and posts some videos and other comments as I suspect as he learns more and more he will discard most of these early discoveries.   We start be adding things to the swing and as we become more proficient and experienced we start to take away, or discard most of those ideas, leaving us with our swing- credit to Mike Maves.   

[chipa]

2 hours ago, Nickc said:

Ok understand the idea of active legs to ensure momentum as with forward press.

but I still don't understand why you are using the word 'resisting'. If you are resisting you are resisting something so what are your legs resisting?

 

The feeling of resisting I am referring to would be as if you were standing at address and someone would stand between you and the ball and push your left shoulder in the opposite direction of the target, if your legs don't resist you would lose your balance or fall down.

 

My friend Javier struggles to get the feeling of the legs resisting but then again he only practices once a month so we have been coming up with different things to help him. In fact the prior example is exactly what I do with Javier to show him how to resist with the legs. In the beginning I would barely push him and he would lose his balance immediately. Later he learned to pull his right foot back a little and push back against my hands.

 

Also, taking 3 short hops before every swing and then the practice swing I discussed with the loose hands and the legs resisting as if someone was pushing on your left shoulder. Of equal importance to this technique is having the butt of the left hand on top of the grip and ensuring the left shoulder comes out then the upper left arm extends away from the body at the end of the practice swing. We call this practice swing "1-2-3 shirtsleeve" swing. Four swings in total, 3 w/o the left upper arm separating until the last one. Good luck.

[chipa]

3 hours ago, Jeselnik said:

He is probably using a delayed hip turn, shoulders pull hips, foot pressure and knee bend directs hips, this is for flexible people.  Guessing he’ll want to explore a standard hip turn in the future, easier on the legs and range of motion.  He’s learning, thinking, exploring which is cool.

 

JNIK

 

Our technique does delay the turning of the hips just as Couples, Furyk and Wolff do but it is not a mechanical technique rather a feeling of the legs resisting. Also, I have three fused vertebrae in my lower back in addition to being 57 which limits my flexibility. My friend Javier is 56 and has less flexibility that I do. I believe the left shoulder adduction and the butt of the left hand on top of the grip allow the correct muscles to be used in order to swing "around" the lower body.

 

As far as the standard takeaway turning the hips, this hurts me and Javier backs significantly as there is a period of no lower back tension as the weight shifts to the right side, then a lot of times the right leg doesn't resist as much. Our method holds our lower back in place and as a result we no longer have lower back pain.

 

Also, as a consequence we have learned this method easily generates high clubhead speed with the legs and efficient hand and arm mechanics making this possible.

Edited May 11, 2023 by chipa

[chipa]

8 hours ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

It really is and that's awesome, and a sure sign of a relative newbie.  I think most pass through similar discovery portals when starting out and I hope chipa sticks around and posts some videos and other comments as I suspect as he learns more and more he will discard most of these early discoveries.   We start be adding things to the swing and as we become more proficient and experienced we start to take away, or discard most of those ideas, leaving us with our swing- credit to Mike Maves.   

 

I have been trying to learn the golf swing since 1995 and we came up with this technique by trial and error mostly due to the significant lower back pain we had, after all we are in our late 50's.

 

I looked at Rocco Mediate's swing and learned about putting the weight on the balls of the feet. Then I learned about the left shoulder adduction watching Walter Hagen's swing, which is very similar to Rocco Mediates.

 

After that I learned from Couples and Wolff that the hips don't have to turn initially, and finally it was Mike Austin's(+Daly's) and Manuel de La Torres techniques that made it work, specifically Austin's method of gripping the club with the left shoulder adduction (Shirtsleeve technique) and Torres routing of the left hand to over the right shoulder (as opposed to staying down initially) that allowed us to swing around our lower body. The final piece - our "swing trigger" was copying John Daly's forward press, that has cured mine and Javier's flying right elbow and given us the efficient arm and hand swing we have striven for, ie a natural draw with no downswing thoughts.

Edited May 11, 2023 by chipa

[chipa]

Update - 115 mph max with 43" 3 wood and 126 mph 47.5" driver.

 

Here a couple of images of the radar. I was at 118 to 126 mph with the driver for a total of 15 range balls including warming up. I had not swung a driver in 30 days as my apartment is too small. the range balls are very old and beat up, thus the low smash factor.

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by chipa

[chipa]

Driver swing at 119 mph. This swing can be yours try it out for free. It may not be pretty but it is effective and easy on my back and knees, I'm 57. I've already posted the setup and takeaway info. Good luck

[vernon]

Wow!

 

Well done and good for you!

[chipa]

26 minutes ago, vernon said:

Wow!

 

Well done and good for you!

 

Thanks buddy!

[Nickc]

On 5/16/2023 at 1:40 AM, chipa said:

Driver swing at 119 mph. This swing can be yours try it out for free. It may not be pretty but it is effective and easy on my back and knees, I'm 57. I've already posted the setup and takeaway info. Good luck

Do you use the same technique throughout the bag?

[chipa]

3 hours ago, Nickc said:

Do you use the same technique throughout the bag?

 

Yes I do.

[chipa]

110-115 mph practice swing.

 

In this video I demonstrate the 3 short hops followed by very short jumping lunges that I do on the balls of my feet mostly, as you can see I'm quite comfortable and not tense.

 

I did two "1-2-3 Shirtsleeve" practice swings the first one at 110 mph and the second at 115. I maintain the same feel of the tension in the legs that I had during the hops. I do this before almost every swing, this way I don't have to depend so much on muscle memory.

 

Notice how my left arm turns over early and reaches(pushes) across the front of the body. The hands and arms start the swing with a forward press similar to the real swing and like the real swing the upper left arm takes over as it goes out and turns back across the body. With Mike Austin's grip and minimal leg tension it's impossible to go over the top as the left arm is extended across the body allowing the right arm to hit from the inside without trying. My friend Javier suffers from an over the top move as is natural but when he executes this technique correctly it goes away. In the classic over the top move the left upper arm is too far away from the body as the left shoulder has not adducted and not allows the left arm to back across the chest, this is eliminated with the Shirtsleeve technique. Javier's clubhead speed with a 45" driver is around 105 even though his legs resist only marginally and he does not always adduct his left shoulder enough, due to the tendency to use a left hand palm grip that is very tight.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by chipa

[Hawkeye77]

Yep, just like Hogan. 

[chipa]

Just now, Hawkeye77 said:

Yep, just like Hogan. 

 

I'm only trying to copy Hogan's leg tension.

[Carlito]

In Chipas practice routine  i can clearly see one of the most important skills in golf named "arm rotation".

Chapeau! Keep up the good work. 

[EagleAteBirdie]

Creating a swing idea thread on WRX is like walking into a lion's cage like this:

 

 

[chipa]

9 hours ago, Carlito said:

In Chipas practice routine  i can clearly see one of the most important skills in golf named "arm rotation".

Chapeau! Keep up the good work. 

 

That is a very good observation.

 

After doing the forward press I do rotate the hand and arm initially but from there I focus on my upper arm muscles taking over the backswing. What I have noticed is that when the left shoulder adducts the left hand, forearm and upper arm align naturally. This explains the widely varying takeaway techniques seen among pros, such as some pros actively rotating the left arm early to others very late in the backswing. The pros that rotate their left arm early generally get the back of the left hand flat, a clear sign the left shoulder is adducting. The golfers that go from the back of the left hand being cupped at address to being flat (or bowed) much later in the backswing will have a rapid transition from the back of the left hand being cupped to going flat due to the fact that the left shoulder is adducting at this point and the left arm is now extended away from the upper body.

 

At the top of all pros swing the left shoulder is adducted and the upper left arm is extended away from the body. The only difference is how each pro gets into this position during the backswing.

Edited May 25, 2023 by chipa