Passive Shallowing?

[Anthony Stevens]

 

I don't quite understand Dana Dahlquist at 11:10 when he says "the change of direction will make that [shallowing] happen".

 

Is it because the sum of the forces applied to the center of mass of the club just prior to transition are such that the club is going to HAVE to shallow if/when you change direction? (in a proper swing, anyway). Is it what Brendan alludes to a few seconds later when he says that (paraphrasing Milo Lines) deeper = shallower?

 

Does it depend on swing length? If the club shaft gets to parallel to the ground at the end of the backswing, then the COM is going down at that point, right? (?) Is it easier to shallow if the club COM is already descending vertically?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[glk]

Dr Kwon talks about shallowing relative to the functional swing plane - which is the measured motion of the club head between p6 and p8 - everyone moves the club head off the fsp during the backswing; it is a matter of how much and which direction - the more the club head moves away the more effort is required to have the ch get back onto the fsp - in his certification classes he has an entire discussion on the fsp and the three pattern - planar, spiral, and reverse spiral.     On his youtube site under the biomechanics playlist he has a video on the fsp if interested.    But he adovcates a motion that requires little separate arm motion etc to shallow which is what Dana is talking about and lots of tour pro's do - obviously not all with extremes on either end being folks like Rahm or Sergio and Wolff and Fuyrk.

 

Two videos on the topic - first is small discussion and second has Brendon doing a continuous swing drill that creates a more "on plane" motion with shallowing just "happening".  

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by glk

[golferdude54]

Shallowing comes from the combination of the front leg externally rotating and the back arm internally rotating. Look at Sam Snead’s front knee and back elbow when he transitioned.

[MonteScheinblum]

There’s an important factor being left out.

 

Most amateurs actively steepen feeling very powerful when the center of mass goes straight to the ball. 
 

So many resultant swing faults and setup issues abound and it becomes a snowball. 
 

Passive and automatic actions in the swing are wonderful, if you haven’t spent every swing of your life doing the opposite. 

[wagolfer7]

3 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

when the center of mass goes straight to the ball. 

Feels like this is hugely important for many amateurs to try to understand. 

[iacas]

32 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

Feels like this is hugely important for many amateurs to try to understand. 

 

Yes.

 

It has to go away from the ball AND the target.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, wagolfer7 said:

Feels like this is hugely important for many amateurs to try to understand. 

So many posts on this forum say, “That move shouldn’t be a conscious action.”  I have to laugh.  The people that say this don’t spend thousands of hours a year on the lesson tee and slagging swings.

 

Well, yea, walking with proper posture and gait shouldn’t be conscious.  People say throwing a ball doesn’t have conscious thoughts.  That’s true, especially for all

the people that walk like crap (me) and end up with joint replacements.  There’s a reason every high school, college and pro baseball and football teams have a coach specifically to help QB’s and pitchers to work on their mechanics.

 

The people that say a swing should be unconscious and automatic and should have no conscious efforts, have never spent any time on a tour range.  Yes, even Bubba, DJ and Boo have conscious efforts and the overwhelming majority have swing coaches and are constantly refining trying to stay in their lane.

 

Like everything else, people see so much paralysis by analysis, they think to gravitate to the other extreme of “swing your swing” and that’s just another bottom part of the parabolic curve.

 

 

[RoyalTroon]

A stroke, or a shot, is a blend of voluntary and involuntary control and striking a balance between the two, which can vary, is the acquired skill gained from experience.  Forget the center of mass crap- many have shallowing issues because they treat the club head as though it's the front-end of a golf club, it's not, the club head is the back end of a golf club. 

[Zitlow]

Shallowing is a link in the chain. 

 

 

 

[Anthony Stevens]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:38 AM, glk said:

Dr Kwon talks about shallowing relative to the functional swing plane - which is the measured motion of the club head between p6 and p8 - everyone moves the club head off the fsp during the backswing; it is a matter of how much and which direction - the more the club head moves away the more effort is required to have the ch get back onto the fsp - in his certification classes he has an entire discussion on the fsp and the three pattern - planar, spiral, and reverse spiral.     On his youtube site under the biomechanics playlist he has a video on the fsp if interested.    But he adovcates a motion that requires little separate arm motion etc to shallow which is what Dana is talking about and lots of tour pro's do - obviously not all with extremes on either end being folks like Rahm or Sergio and Wolff and Fuyrk.

 

Two videos on the topic - first is small discussion and second has Brendon doing a continuous swing drill that creates a more "on plane" motion with shallowing just "happening".  

 

 

 

Thanks for the links. I would love a more in-depth discussion of the "it just happens" discussion in the 2nd video at around 5:45. Just saying it happens is not too satisfying, lol.

[Jeselnik]

On 5/12/2023 at 12:04 PM, Anthony Stevens said:

 

I don't quite understand Dana Dahlquist at 11:10 when he says "the change of direction will make that [shallowing] happen".

 

Is it because the sum of the forces applied to the center of mass of the club just prior to transition are such that the club is going to HAVE to shallow if/when you change direction? (in a proper swing, anyway). Is it what Brendan alludes to a few seconds later when he says that (paraphrasing Milo Lines) deeper = shallower?

 

Does it depend on swing length? If the club shaft gets to parallel to the ground at the end of the backswing, then the COM is going down at that point, right? (?) Is it easier to shallow if the club COM is already descending vertically?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

If you satisfy your prereqs, then turn your hips correctly shallow will happen, it’s Hogans free ride that people who cant do it claim doesnt exist.  Left hand flexion is also auto.  Are there other ways to do it?  Sure are, hope you got talent and nerves of steel.

 

JNIK