2-man best ball strategic equipment placement.

[Augster]

2-man stroke play best ball. Short par 3 with bunkers on both sides of the green. 
 

My partner is in the right bunker. I move my push cart to the fringe on the left side of the green. 
 

Effectively, with this placement, if my partner hits a screamer, or just hits it with a little too much run on it, his ball may strike my bag/push cart and possibly stay out of the bunker on the left side of the green. 
 

Without penalties anymore for striking our own equipment, is this legal?

 

Pre-2019 it would be 2SP for striking a partner’s equipment. I can’t find anything in the ROG saying this placement is illegal. 
 

Thanks. 

 

[iacas]

You should look at the Clarification 11.2a/1 – Equipment Left in Position After Player Realizes It Could Be Helpful if the Ball Were to Hit It.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=interp&section=rule&rulenum=11&subrulenum=4

[antip]

First question to ask is what is the intent of the player placing the bag/push cart. Is it to try to assist the partner's shot if it comes on too strong? This is an integrity test. If the answer is yes, AND the stroke hits the object, the partner gets the penalty, not the player (player took an action in respect of the partner's ball). If the ball doesn't hit the object no penalty. (Question in referee's head - is it a logical/reasonable location to place the bag/push cart given position of player's ball, the next tee etc? If not, may need to ask why.)

 

If there is no intent, ie it is an innocent placement, then it is unlikely to be an issue unless it is clear that the partner can benefit from the positioning AND the partner is aware of this. In that scenario, then I think 11.2a/1's penalty would apply to the player IF the player does nothing about it AND the stroke subsequently hits the object. If there is no contact with the object, there is no penalty under 11.2.

[toc]

Cmon man, I feel dirty having just read that.

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, antip said:

First question to ask is what is the intent of the player placing the bag/push cart. Is it to try to assist the partner's shot if it comes on too strong? This is an integrity test. If the answer is yes, AND the stroke hits the object, the partner gets the penalty, not the player (player took an action in respect of the partner's ball). If the ball doesn't hit the object no penalty. 

 

 

It is interesting to acknowledge that  the outcome is different from a case where your ball is rolling downhill back towards you and you fix a divot on the route but the ball does not meet the divot and you get the penalty nonetheless. In both cases you are trying to influence the movement of a ball but in the OP case the ball is not yet moving while in the latter case it is.

[Augster]

Thanks for the help. 
 

So if I accidentally leave the push cart in a logical spot, which “could” stop my partners ball if he gets frisky, I must recognize this before he hits. If I recognize it before he hits, I have to call him off his shot and move it?

 

If I don’t recognize that the cart might help him, and I leave it, no penalty? 
 

Again, integrity and such. 
 

Wasn’t it a lot more black and white that when you hit your own, or your partner’s equipment, it’s a penalty stroke? It seems to me it’d be a lot easier to referee and would cut down on nonsense like I describe in the original post. 
 

Thanks all!

[antip]

5 hours ago, Augster said:

Thanks for the help. 
 

So if I accidentally leave the push cart in a logical spot, which “could” stop my partners ball if he gets frisky, I must recognize this before he hits. If I recognize it before he hits, I have to call him off his shot and move it?

 

If I don’t recognize that the cart might help him, and I leave it, no penalty? 
 

Again, integrity and such. 
 

Wasn’t it a lot more black and white that when you hit your own, or your partner’s equipment, it’s a penalty stroke? It seems to me it’d be a lot easier to referee and would cut down on nonsense like I describe in the original post. 
 

Thanks all!

For sure, always a penalty is easy to referee. But 2019 was about removing penalties that do not have clear justification.

 

If it is not intentional and is not close to the flag or in a likely supportive position, I don't see a reason to consider penalty even if contact occurs. 

[antip]

18 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

It is interesting to acknowledge that  the outcome is different from a case where your ball is rolling downhill back towards you and you fix a divot on the route but the ball does not meet the divot and you get the penalty nonetheless. In both cases you are trying to influence the movement of a ball but in the OP case the ball is not yet moving while in the latter case it is.

Yes, there is some nuance in comparing 11.2 and 11.3.