Is the MLM Pro 2 my best bet under a grand? Also hitting mat recc's?

[NorthTXGolf]

Used to have an original skytrak but had kids and had to take a break from golf so ended up selling it. Got back into golf and the best ive ever played was when I was practicing consistently with the skytrak. Don't want to spend a crazy amount on this.

 

Had been eyeing the MLM pro 2 and heard good things. Basically just want something that will be fairly accurate distance wise and spin wise. Mostly will be used as a driving range with maybe the occasional sim play.

 

I also had a fiberbuilt mat that I had purchased with my skytrak that I also sold. What is kind of the go to these days for a real-ish feeling?

 

Thanks!

[Triple Lindy]

First of all, the mat. Hard to go wrong with Fiberbuilt, especially if you liked it. Monster Mat gets good reviews, but I don’t have one. I’m still hitting off a cheap Amazon mat with one of those interlocking foam floor mats underneath.

 

As for the MLM2, yes, under $1k it’s probably the best thing going. It is very accurate. Just keep in mind that you’ll cross the $1k threshold in your 3rd year of ownership due to the $200 annual subscription. I purchased mine as an open box item from 2nd Swing for ~$500 and it came with a full warranty and 1st year free subscription.
 

The app is pretty pedestrian, but if you’re looking to measure swing metrics, it will suffice. I’m not much of a sim player, but from what I’ve played, it was fine. There’s already a thread that will give you some detailed reviews. Rapsodo recently added swing speed measurement without hitting a ball, which is nice. Hopefully, they’ll add club data (path/face).

 

As far as practicing goes, I agree 100% that having a convenient place to hit will help your game. It certainly has helped mine. But I don’t setup my LM every time I hit. I can tell what the ball is doing without it. I mostly use it to validate distances. 

 

If you also need a net, I highly recommend the Spornia SPG-8 XL. Unlike the Skytrak, you’ll need 8’ of ball flight. The SPG-8 provides plenty of height, allowing full 60° wedge shots without sending the ball over the net. It’s pricey, but was a great upgrade for me over a cheap 10x7 net.

[NorthTXGolf]

6 minutes ago, Triple Lindy said:

First of all, the mat. Hard to go wrong with Fiberbuilt, especially if you liked it. Monster Mat gets good reviews, but I don’t have one. I’m still hitting off a cheap Amazon mat with one of those interlocking foam floor mats underneath.

 

As for the MLM2, yes, under $1k it’s probably the best thing going. It is very accurate. Just keep in mind that you’ll cross the $1k threshold in your 3rd year of ownership due to the $200 annual subscription. I purchased mine as an open box item from 2nd Swing for ~$500 and it came with a full warranty and 1st year free subscription.
 

The app is pretty pedestrian, but if you’re looking to measure swing metrics, it will suffice. I’m not much of a sim player, but from what I’ve played, it was fine. There’s already a thread that will give you some detailed reviews. Rapsodo recently added swing speed measurement without hitting a ball, which is nice. Hopefully, they’ll add club data (path/face).

 

As far as practicing goes, I agree 100% that having a convenient place to hit will help your game. It certainly has helped mine. But I don’t setup my LM every time I hit. I can tell what the ball is doing without it. I mostly use it to validate distances. 

 

If you also need a net, I highly recommend the Spornia SPG-8 XL. Unlike the Skytrak, you’ll need 8’ of ball flight. The SPG-8 provides plenty of height, allowing full 60° wedge shots without sending the ball over the net. It’s pricey, but was a great upgrade for me over a cheap 10x7 net.

Awesome thanks for the info! Yeah im kind of trying to decide if I go with the MLM or something like a used Mevo+

 

Yeah definitely wouldn't be a take it with me everywhere I go sort of thing. Just for some fun practice at home with maybe the occasional sim play.

 

good rec on the net. I have a net but definitely wanting one with a little more coverage

[Triple Lindy]

I considered the Mevo+ but didn’t want to spend that much. I didn’t look at the used market. I had tried out Skytrak, Garmin and SC300i, each on a trial basis, and wanted that ability to return the product if I didn’t like it. 2nd Swing’s open box option came with a 60 day trial, just like their used club policy. That might be worth checking out for the Mevo+, and I’ve found their pricing competitive with eBay, especially when you factor in some of the exorbitant shipping costs.

 

If Rapsodo ever adds club data, I’ll be very happy with it. If they don’t, and they don’t upgrade the app experience, I’ll have to make a decision once my free subscription runs out at the end of this summer.

 

One other note - the MLM2 doesn’t need to be set as far behind the ball as units that only use radar for measuring. This is because Rapsodo is reading some of the measurements with the one of the two cameras. I know that the Mevo+ also has a camera, but I don’t know if it’s used exclusively for video capture or if it also captures ball data. The MLM2 can sit around 6’ behind the ball, whereas units like the Garmin R10 require around 8’. That may not be an issue for you, but my hitting area is on my decking around my pool. I can make a 16’ space work, but it’s tight based on the curved shape of the decking. The MLM2 fits the space better.

[_chris]

You can find a used OG Skytrak with the protective cover for as low as $600 but they average around 8. Depends on if you have the room to use it behind the ball. I prefer a monitor next to the ball. 

[vandyfan]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:11 PM, Triple Lindy said:

If you also need a net, I highly recommend the Spornia SPG-8 XL.

 

You don't fly over that net with a 60*? I was thinking I would need at least 9 feet to be sure on a 54*. That spornia would be much better than some of the options I was looking at in the 9-10 ft range. 

[Triple Lindy]

3 hours ago, vandyfan said:

 

You don't fly over that net with a 60*? I was thinking I would need at least 9 feet to be sure on a 54*. That spornia would be much better than some of the options I was looking at in the 9-10 ft range. 

No, I don’t, and I’ve taken full swings, which is something I rarely do with a 60° on the course. I’ve hit the canopy that extends forward many times, which kinda scares me, but I’ve gotten used to it. Spornia claims that the SPG-8 is 10’ high, but it’s not. Maybe they get a virtual 10’ because of the way the canopy extends forward, taking some of the height out of your shot.
 

I suspect if I was really trying and opened up, I could get a ball over the net. But I don’t try that on the course, so there’s no need for me to practice that shot. And if my practice shot is anything like an actual shot, I’d  probably skull it into the bottom of the net anyway.

[vandyfan]

18 hours ago, Triple Lindy said:

Spornia claims that the SPG-8 is 10’ high

 

 

 

Yep, for sure it is not. I saw a video of a 6'4" gentleman reaching up and touching the top, flat footed. Doesn't mean that it isn't enough but I would agree they are, at best, advertising an "effective" 10 ft net that is not actually 10 ft. The allure of the Spornia is good considering it would be this:

 

 

Instead of this:

 

One other question for you @Triple Lindy, if you don't mind, is your spornia set sagging to one side or the other yet? I saw that as a complaint from some people and/or is the roof attachment starting to sag?

Edited February 2 by vandyfan

[Triple Lindy]

7 hours ago, vandyfan said:

is your spornia set sagging to one side or the other yet? I saw that as a complaint from some people and/or is the roof attachment starting to sag?

No, but the side poles aren’t the strongest. The net will lean slightly to each side, depending on whether I pay attention when setting up. A slight push on one side fixes it, and it’s really not a big deal. It doesn’t make a difference other than visually. It is susceptible to wind, though. I’ve gotten to where I stake mine down with the guy lines almost every time I set up, which also eliminates the lean. Takes all of 1 minute. No issues at all with the roof attachment. The pole provides a lot of tension. I’m not sure how it would ever sag.

[vandyfan]

I did a side by side with my MLM2Pro vs Trackman this past week and, personally, I found the results very encouraging. Three things to point out: (1) This was indoors into a simulator screen and (2) I used the Callaway RPT Ball instead of the RCT ball and (3) I set the elevation at 500 feet on the Rapsodo since Nashville is about 500 ft above sea level (4) The Trackman was registering low spin and spin was italicized so I did not include it in this test, it did not seem reliable. I warmed up briefly and then decided to hit 3-5 shots with a 42* 9 iron (Ben Hogan PTxPro), a 32.5* 7 iron (TS1-IM) and my Mizuno ST-Z 230 Driver to see how the numbers, flight path, etc. lined up. Below, ORANGE is trackman and Red is Rapsodo MLM2Pro numbers...

Immediate thoughts: I was very impressed with the accuracy. I will post pictures below showing the most dramatic shot shapes and how close they were between the two. I think the RPT ball probably put the Trackman at a slight disadvantage but what I learned was something obvious LIGHTING MATTERS. I think the issues I am having at home at night, outdoors with short ball flights is probably due to low light. The yardages I am seeing here are more accurate (I wasn't really going all out at any of these). And I wasn't seeing any 145 yd carry 7 irons like I was previously. 

 

The Good: Ball Speed, Club Head Speed and Carry all impressed. They were within a few yards of each other every time. 
The Not as Good: Launch angle seemed to have a large delta between the two. If this is something you really care about it may be an issue. 
The N/A: Not being able to get real spin results off the trackman was frustrating/annoying. I guess that is down to the RPT ball OR something else that day. 

 

OKAY BUT SHOW ME THE SHOTS!

My two most "dramatic" shots, aka misses where I could see if the trackman and Rapsodo were registering the same path and curve were 

 

(1) Pull Draw/Hook 9 iron - my specialty

 

And a fade 7 iron: 

 

In summary: Did not have any shots that went opposite directions of each other or are any more different than these posted above. Very impressed with ball flight accuracy of this unit in good lighting. I think the Rapsodo MLM2Pro (like any radar unit) struggles in lower light environments. 

 

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, vandyfan said:

I did a side by side with my MLM2Pro vs Trackman this past week and, personally, I found the results very encouraging. Three things to point out: (1) This was indoors into a simulator screen and (2) I used the Callaway RPT Ball instead of the RCT ball and (3) I set the elevation at 500 feet on the Rapsodo since Nashville is about 500 ft above sea level (4) The Trackman was registering low spin and spin was italicized so I did not include it in this test, it did not seem reliable. I warmed up briefly and then decided to hit 3-5 shots with a 42* 9 iron (Ben Hogan PTxPro), a 32.5* 7 iron (TS1-IM) and my Mizuno ST-Z 230 Driver to see how the numbers, flight path, etc. lined up. Below, ORANGE is trackman and Red is Rapsodo MLM2Pro numbers...

 

Immediate thoughts: I was very impressed with the accuracy. I will post pictures below showing the most dramatic shot shapes and how close they were between the two. I think the RPT ball probably put the Trackman at a slight disadvantage but what I learned was something obvious LIGHTING MATTERS. I think the issues I am having at home at night, outdoors with short ball flights is probably due to low light. The yardages I am seeing here are more accurate (I wasn't really going all out at any of these). And I wasn't seeing any 145 yd carry 7 irons like I was previously. 

 

In summary: Did not have any shots that went opposite directions of each other or are any more different than these posted above. Very impressed with ball flight accuracy of this unit in good lighting. I think the Rapsodo MLM2Pro (like any radar unit) struggles in lower light environments. 

 

 

It may be something else other than lighting. The impact vision camera that the MLM2 uses to watch the dots to generate spin/axis metrics is an IR camera, so shouldn't be affected in low light situations. One of the ways you can tell is because the impact vision camera does not ever show the image being projected into an impact screen (non-IR light). 

 

When you're having issues with yours, what does the Impact Vision replays look like on those specific shots? If it's really really dark when you're taking these shots, it could maybe be kind of a variant of indoor-swing syndrome where you might just be subconsciously swinging slower because of the darkness and trying to stay stable? Personal anecdote, when I built my simulator, the first projector I got was a cheapo Chinese one that was very dim. I had to mostly turn off the lights to even see it on the screen. I definitely noticed degradation of my swing in such a dark environment, which is why I upgraded my projector. 

 

 

 

Edited February 7 by Simpsonia

[vandyfan]

@Simpsonia I actually have not yet used the impact vision feature. I went back and looked at my last range session and the pictures look like this.

[Simpsonia]

Yep, that's to be expected. IR camera working as intended there (it looks the exact same in a highly lit environment as well). My guess is that similar to indoor-swing syndrome, you might just be subconsciously slowing yourself down in a very dim/dark environment. 

[vandyfan]

@Simpsonia I have to credit you with a few things. That video is eye opening AND your comments made me go back and look at impact vision. For whatever reason, in the low light setup I am LIVING on the toe of my irons. Like every 3rd or 4th shot is toe side. So that is the most likely reason for the loss of ball speed, carry, etc. Thank you for solving this mystery for me where I wanted to blame the technology. The MLM2Pro continues to impress and I continue to be the weak link, haha. 

[golfpractitioner5]

@vandyfanhave you played any of the 30,000+ available simulation courses on the MLM2 pro? Currently, I’m aiming to go with the Skytrak plus in my simulator but have been intrigued with the MLM2 pro due to the availability of local courses I could play just on their simulation software. The one thing holding the MLM2 pro back for me at the moment is the need for specialty balls.

 

The price difference could make it worth it, too.

[Triple Lindy]

15 minutes ago, golfpractitioner5 said:

The one thing holding the MLM2 pro back for me at the moment is the need for specialty balls.

Don’t let that be a significant factor in your decision. You can get inexpensive stickers already set in the correct pattern that you can place on any ball. There are several YT videos that show how effective they are.

 

As far as the included sim courses go, they’re pretty good, especially since Rapsodo improved the elevation on them. I don’t play sim golf often, but I’ve played some of my local courses in prep for real rounds.

[golfpractitioner5]

9 minutes ago, Triple Lindy said:

Don’t let that be a significant factor in your decision. You can get inexpensive stickers already set in the correct pattern that you can place on any ball. There are several YT videos that show how effective they are.

 

As far as the included sim courses go, they’re pretty good, especially since Rapsodo improved the elevation on them. I don’t play sim golf often, but I’ve played some of my local courses in prep for real rounds.

The draw for me with it is the 30,000 courses because I’m the type guy that looks at a course the day before I play it to get my play strategy for each hole. I would imagine getting to play the actual simulated course the night before on simulation would be amazing.

 

i did see the stickers available. It’s, also, becoming less of an issue now that proV1 has the rpt in the standard and x model. I play a maxfli tour and find them to be very similar to the proV1.

[vandyfan]

@golfpractitioner5 My hitting area is setup outside so I get fairly spotty wifi out there (you have to be on wifi to play the courses I believe) -- so most every time I direct connect my phone to the MLM2Pro. I did play McCabe of all places on there (why I chose McCabe, I have no idea) one of the few times my wifi was stable and able to reach out there and the simulation is....underwhelming. They are working on elevation at the moment so McCabe was just a flat, low graphics course. It is accurate in the twists and turns of the course but, again, has no elevation for that one. Also, chipping is a bit of a challenge to figure out. I actually have ATT coming to my house on Saturday to switch me over to Fiber internet so I might be playing more often (supposedly 20x faster....we will see).

 

I must follow up those negatives with a few plugs/positives. The accuracy is very good for the cost of the unit. The range (95% of why I bought a sim) is excellent as are the metrics. The app interface is smooth and easy to work with. The impact vision that I scoffed at was shown to be very valuable to me by @Simpsonia. If you have the room for it and a net that is tall enough to catch a wedge from 9 feet away (probably need at least a ceiling or an 8 foot net), I highly recommend it even though my only other experience with a sim is Trackman. 

[Simpsonia]

2 hours ago, golfpractitioner5 said:

The draw for me with it is the 30,000 courses because I’m the type guy that looks at a course the day before I play it to get my play strategy for each hole. I would imagine getting to play the actual simulated course the night before on simulation would be amazing.

 

i did see the stickers available. It’s, also, becoming less of an issue now that proV1 has the rpt in the standard and x model. I play a maxfli tour and find them to be very similar to the proV1.

 

The 30,000 course catalog is pretty basic. It will get you pretty much the shape of the fairway, any hazards, and the approximate shape of the green. Beyond that it's incredibly limited. Elevation is in beta, but is still meh, though better than the completely flat version previously. Trees and other vegetation are mostly just gonna be a guess, and are typically much more sparse in the sim than in real life. So if you're ok with the sim just being a tool to learn fairway shape and hazard carries, then yeah it will work for that, but it's not a real sim experience where you're gonna have buddies over in the winter to play some sim golf. 

 

Edit: Elevation is gonna be limited to courses where they can get the LIDAR data from. I'll post a video of JLag's where he's testing the function on Augusta.

 

I hook my MLM2 up to GSPro for real sim golf. While there is no official connector, there is an incredible community that has hacked together an unofficial connector to GSPro. Now GSPro won't have the courses down the street from you (its catalog is about ~700ish courses now), but is pretty much considered the best sim golf software out there otherwise.

 

 

Edited February 8 by Simpsonia

[vandyfan]

After messing around with impact vision for about an hour last night I realized something that should have been fairly obvious (probably is obvious to you all). When hitting a 7 iron, pretty much any strike that has less than a 1.31 smash factor is far enough outside of the center (either toe side or heel side or high/low on the face) to materially effect distance. On some of these hollow body irons where the feedback isn't as good, it can be hard sometimes to "feel" a mild toe strike but smash factor gives it away. Flushed shots, for me, are closer to 1.37-1.39 (1.40 is my current record with a 7 iron) on the Rapsodo MLM2Pro. So now smash factor is one of my key metrics along with carry. 

 

Also, even though the MLM2Pro doesn't have all the club data, I think you can infer club path and face to path somewhat based on the impact vision and ultimate result of the shot. The shot tracking is consistent and accurate enough to recognize hooks, block, cuts, low, high, all that. Just really a fascinating piece of kit. 

Edited February 9 by vandyfan

[Triple Lindy]

1 hour ago, vandyfan said:

I think you can infer club path and face to path somewhat based on the impact vision and ultimate result of the shot. The shot tracking is consistent and accurate enough to recognize hooks, block, cuts, low, high, all that. Just really a fascinating piece of kit. 

I agree, but I’d prefer face/path data so that I can understand repetitive swing info as well as being able to see at a glance what happened, along with the other metrics. Needing to go into each shot and review video isn’t ideal, but it’s better than nothing. 
 

I like the impact vision combined with the down the line and face on view (requires your tablet/phone). I was able to pinpoint a specific thing to work on. Unfortunately, you can’t see them all at the same time, but you do get a comprehensive view of your swing.

 

Overall, I’m impressed with the MLM2. I’d like a better experience in the app, and am counting on Rapsodo to ultimately deliver that.

[Simpsonia]

Yeah, in the meantime you can kind of take your HLaunch as effectively your face to target (not path) and then kinda just internally estimate your path based on the magnitude of your spin axis. I'm sure there exist some algorithms out there to get closer estimates, but it's what I use. Like when working on numbers, I really try to keep my HLaunch below ~6*, and if I start seeing it creep up with a bigger draw, I can tell my path is getting too in to out. 

 

Not perfect and not precise, but it works for me in the meantime until club data does come along. 

[JoeyC1977]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:29 PM, _chris said:

You can find a used OG Skytrak with the protective cover for as low as $600 but they average around 8. Depends on if you have the room to use it behind the ball. I prefer a monitor next to the ball. 

I’d be curious how much thought anyone else put into this idea. Wonder how a sub $1k OG ST stacks up to the MLM2Pro. Considering the ST was $2k it seems like it should be the better buy at this price point but people seem really impressed with the MLM. 

[golfpractitioner5]

6 hours ago, JoeyC1977 said:

I’d be curious how much thought anyone else put into this idea. Wonder how a sub $1k OG ST stacks up to the MLM2Pro. Considering the ST was $2k it seems like it should be the better buy at this price point but people seem really impressed with the MLM. 

There are a few videos on YouTube that compared the two. It did really well if not a little better than the original skytrak as long as you use the RPT balls. The Skytrak+ comparison videos have given a slight edge to the Skytrak+.

[_chris]

4 hours ago, golfpractitioner5 said:

There are a few videos on YouTube that compared the two. It did really well if not a little better than the original skytrak as long as you use the RPT balls. The Skytrak+ comparison videos have given a slight edge to the Skytrak+.

I think at that point it just boils down to having the space to work with. I have the space, but preferred something right by the ball. 

[golfpractitioner5]

2 minutes ago, _chris said:

I think at that point it just boils down to having the space to work with. I have the space, but preferred something right by the ball. 

I’m in the process of putting together a garage simulator and just decided to go with the Skytrak+. The MLM2 Pro looks great, but I didn’t want to have to deal with issues that garage builds can have on radar based units like all the metal and concrete or the chance that fans or air conditioning would mess with it as the garage gets warm in the summer.

[_chris]

35 minutes ago, golfpractitioner5 said:

I’m in the process of putting together a garage simulator and just decided to go with the Skytrak+. The MLM2 Pro looks great, but I didn’t want to have to deal with issues that garage builds can have on radar based units like all the metal and concrete or the chance that fans or air conditioning would mess with it as the garage gets warm in the summer.

This is ultimately the reason I ditched the Garmin I started with. Every single environmental factor affects them. It was a pain. 

[golfpractitioner5]

1 hour ago, _chris said:

I think at that point it just boils down to having the space to work with. I have the space, but preferred something right by the ball. 

I'm with you on the right machine for the ball.  I tinker a lot and that, also, includes ball changes.  I didn't want to be limited to the RPT balls or having to put the stickers on other types of balls.  Also, I really like that Skytrak stuck with the original for 9 years before coming out with a new product.  It shows that they though thoroughly about what they were bringing to the market with the Skytrak+ as it wasn't just bringing something out to do it the way companies do with equipment or tech upgrades every year or two.

 

With that, I have heard mostly great things about the MLM2 Pro.

[Simpsonia]

12 hours ago, JoeyC1977 said:

I’d be curious how much thought anyone else put into this idea. Wonder how a sub $1k OG ST stacks up to the MLM2Pro. Considering the ST was $2k it seems like it should be the better buy at this price point but people seem really impressed with the MLM. 

It depends on some variables. The OG Skytrak is notoriously draw biased, it doesn't handle driver the best if you have high ball speeds, there is also some small repair/longevity issues on the laser curtain that triggers the CMOS sensors, it's also a bit more fiddly when it comes to setup (if you don't have a permanent sim setup).

 

MLM2 does use radar, but if I understand it, it's mostly for ball speed and as the launch trigger. I think everything else is calculated optically from the RPT ball, though radar may be for HLA and VLA too, not sure. That said, I have not had any issues whatsoever with a fan running in my garage with the MLM2. I also have an aluminum based ceiling covering (radiant heat barrier) which it has no issues with. It has been tested to be pretty much dead on accuracy wise with the GC4, not sure how that stacks up to the OG Skytrak, but I've been really happy with my MLM2. It does work better at the range, if you do ever get outside with the unit. OG Skytrak definitely suffers in the sunshine. Only downsides are the RPT balls and the $200/yr subscription, but I just consider that as deferred payment vs something like an Eye Mini or BLP. 

[_chris]

1 hour ago, Simpsonia said:

It depends on some variables. The OG Skytrak is notoriously draw biased, it doesn't handle driver the best if you have high ball speeds, 

 

Curious on what constitutes high. I don't have an issue put I peak at 165. I know many go much higher than that.