Questions on diy club adjustments, fittings, etc

[MannJ]

Let me start by saying I can’t really afford the level of fitting I would trust. I know that is the best route but it’s not currently an option. 

A little background:

I started playing again about 2 years ago, and bought some used irons online. I decided to cut these irons down myself by 3/8” (5’7” and wrist to floor about 31.5”) I ended doing this for the most part for every club I have purchased since then. I feel like this has worked out for me, because I think I am making good improvements considering the time I am able to invest.

I decided recently to purchase my first set of new irons because I found a pretty good deal and because I am really really enjoying the game and my progress. 

 

So the questions:

If the cutting off the 3/8” worked well enough, should I just hack away on the new irons or should I try to play the longer shafts?

 

Lie angle:

If I take the 3/8” off, will it be enough to somewhat satisfy what should probably be a 3 degree flattening of lie angle on the clubs?

 

Also on lie angle:

If most all players hands are slightly higher at impact (and I know ideally it would be very slight but it is what it is) shouldn’t lie angle be fitted to position at impact rather than angle at address? And if so wouldn’t that justify having the toe slightly higher than the heel at address?

 

Thank you for your time. 

[TKS]

4 hours ago, MannJ said:

Let me start by saying I can’t really afford the level of fitting I would trust. I know that is the best route but it’s not currently an option. 

A little background:

I started playing again about 2 years ago, and bought some used irons online. I decided to cut these irons down myself by 3/8” (5’7” and wrist to floor about 31.5”) I ended doing this for the most part for every club I have purchased since then. I feel like this has worked out for me, because I think I am making good improvements considering the time I am able to invest.

I decided recently to purchase my first set of new irons because I found a pretty good deal and because I am really really enjoying the game and my progress. 

 

So the questions:

If the cutting off the 3/8” worked well enough, should I just hack away on the new irons or should I try to play the longer shafts?

 

Lie angle:

If I take the 3/8” off, will it be enough to somewhat satisfy what should probably be a 3 degree flattening of lie angle on the clubs?

 

Also on lie angle:

If most all players hands are slightly higher at impact (and I know ideally it would be very slight but it is what it is) shouldn’t lie angle be fitted to position at impact rather than angle at address? And if so wouldn’t that justify having the toe slightly higher than the heel at address?

 

Thank you for your time. 

Lie angle at impact is correct, strikes with a vertical erasable marker line on the back of the ball will transfer to the face. If you have forged clubs, it will be easy for a shop to get them right and not too much $$.  Cast is another story, but doable. 

[TommyRam]

Well, I'm not a fitter by any means, but if the length works for you, and dispersion is in check, have at it. Do realize that swingweight of the original build would be grossly altered though, likely along with lie-angle. Better yet, just grip down on the clubs like you would if they were your intended length. That will give you closest simulation of what shorter will do with that set, before you just cut them. As for lie-angle, yes, it should be fit dynamically, not statically at adress. Your own testing with line-on-ball method will answer the question of correct lie-angle.

[Sp4zRX]

12 hours ago, MannJ said:

If the cutting off the 3/8” worked well enough, should I just hack away on the new irons or should I try to play the longer shafts?

There isn’t a standard for measuring club lengths. Not all companies use the same method for measuring length. Some use a 60° ruler, some with grips, some without, etc… 
 

In your situation I would first hit and play the new irons as they are. If you like them and hit them well then no change is needed. If feel you want to cut them, then first measure your other clubs total length (your method doesn’t matter, as long as you always measure consistently with yourself) then measure your new irons and mark where you would need to cut to get them to your preferred length. 
 

12 hours ago, MannJ said:

Lie angle:

If I take the 3/8” off, will it be enough to somewhat satisfy what should probably be a 3 degree flattening of lie angle on the clubs?

 

Also on lie angle:

If most all players hands are slightly higher at impact (and I know ideally it would be very slight but it is what it is) shouldn’t lie angle be fitted to position at impact rather than angle at address? And if so wouldn’t that justify having the toe slightly higher than the heel at address?

3° for 3/8th is way too much. For them to play similar at -3/8” as they did precut you might need 0.5° upright adjustment. You shouldn’t just adjust lie angle without testing. To determine the lie angle, go to the range with a sharpie or dry erase marker. 
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:19 AM by Sp4zRX

[MannJ]

I probably didn’t word that last part correctly, about shortening the club. 
Using a variety of online fitting tools I am directed in a general way to shorten the shaft .5” and flatten the lie 3 to 5 degrees. Both suggestions are variations on what is considered standard. 
I will certainly do the line test everyone suggested before doing anything, but I was wondering if shortening the shaft would in essence flatten the lie. So half inch short = how much flattering?

[Sp4zRX]

6 minutes ago, MannJ said:

I probably didn’t word that last part correctly, about shortening the club. 
Using a variety of online fitting tools I am directed in a general way to shorten the shaft .5” and flatten the lie 3 to 5 degrees. Both suggestions are variations on what is considered standard. 

There is no such thing as “standard”. Cutting a 1/2” off a club from one manufacturer might be “standard” for another company or it could mean 3/4” short vs another. 

 

But for sake of argument, if you shorten the club by a 1/2”, then you will effectively have a club that plays flatter. 
 

You can change the effective lie angle by changing the length of shaft or by bending. If you have to bend more than about 2° then you should probably be considering length a little more. 
 

Most OEMs have a 1/2” length progression between each iron with 0.5° progression with lie angles so you could say a 1/2” of length would correlate to playing 0.5° flatter but this doesn’t tell the whole story. As the clubs get longer more shaft droop comes into play which can effect the dynamic lie at impact. The only way to know the correct lie angle is to test each club individually. 

 

 

 

[MannJ]

I have one more question on this.

If I am striking the ball before the ground, then surely the ball is exiting the scene before the club hits the ground and is manipulated by the lie angle, correct?

So the only reason the lie angle would matter in this scenario is the amount of side spin caused by off level grooves?

 

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, MannJ said:

I have one more question on this.

If I am striking the ball before the ground, then surely the ball is exiting the scene before the club hits the ground and is manipulated by the lie angle, correct?

So the only reason the lie angle would matter in this scenario is the amount of side spin caused by off level grooves?

 

 

Correct, but there will be instances where you hit turf behind the ball.

 

I agree with checking lie before adjusting.  3/8" short should only be .5 degree at most, unless your natural swing deviates from robot "normal".  

 

I also agree with trying the clubs as is.  Unless they are longer than common stock, you may get along with them just fine.  

[MannJ]

When I got home from work I hit some balls into a net off of a carpet mat. With my current (old) clubs. A 2 iron standard length Mizuno 225 and my MP 15 6 iron and t22 wedge (both of which are 3/8 shorten than stock which I understand being a Mizuno at least the 6 iron might be shorter than average to begin with. All that being said I don’t think length of shaft plays into this a measurable amount for my purposes at least. The 2 iron has the same indications as the other 2. I even tried gripping all the way down near the shaft on the darkest red marks. I know the contact was a little all over the place, but the marks were surprisingly consistent. It appears to me 1 to 2 degrees flat would be ideal from this exercise. But, as said to me repeatedly here, I will play them completely as is for a bit. 

[MiloMalt]

Looks like you need maybe 1 degree more flatter than what those irons you hit are set at

 

Edit: got my uprights and flats mixed up

Edited yesterday at 08:21 AM by MiloMalt

[Sp4zRX]

It looks like 1° flat might be the way to go. I would start with just one or two clubs like just a 7i or a 9i & 5i and do the test again just to be sure it is the lie angle and not a swing fault. Sometimes a swing fault can keep you chasing lie angles because you just have a tendency to deliver either the toe or in your case the heel into the ground, no matter how flat you go. 
 

 

[MannJ]

4 minutes ago, Sp4zRX said:

It looks like 1° flat might be the way to go. I would start with just one or two clubs like just a 7i or a 9i & 5i and do the test again just to be sure it is the lie angle and not a swing fault. Sometimes a swing fault can keep you chasing lie angles because you just have a tendency to deliver either the toe or in your case the heel into the ground, no matter how flat you go. 
 

 

Thanks. I appreciate your help!