Rule question - unusual cart path situation

[matt33]

Not all that easy to describe, but here goes -

 

Ball is sitting just off the fairway in the rough. It so happens though that the cart path next to the ball is raised above ground (about a foot off the ground for about 15 feet so it looks like a small bridge even though there isnt a stream or water of any sorts under it).

 

Now the stance isn't impacted by the cart path/bridge, but the swing clearly is. The question is whether you are able to take relief without penalty? The ball was still well inside any stakes, as these were on the other side of the cart path

 

Thanks

Matt

[KevCarter]

Not all that easy to describe, but here goes -

 

Ball is sitting just off the fairway in the rough. It so happens though that the cart path next to the ball is raised above ground (about a foot off the ground for about 15 feet so it looks like a small bridge even though there isnt a stream or water of any sorts under it).

 

Now the stance isn't impacted by the cart path/bridge, but the swing clearly is. The question is whether you are able to take relief without penalty? The ball was still well inside any stakes, as these were on the other side of the cart path

 

Thanks

Matt

 

You bet. Free drop if the path interferes with stance or swing.

 

Kevin

[hbear]

Yup free drop.

[777twist]

Not all that easy to describe, but here goes -

 

Ball is sitting just off the fairway in the rough. It so happens though that the cart path next to the ball is raised above ground (about a foot off the ground for about 15 feet so it looks like a small bridge even though there isnt a stream or water of any sorts under it).

 

Now the stance isn't impacted by the cart path/bridge, but the swing clearly is. The question is whether you are able to take relief without penalty? The ball was still well inside any stakes, as these were on the other side of the cart path

 

Thanks

Matt

 

You bet. Free drop if the path interferes with stance or swing.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

Isn't more info needed to say "free drop?" Especially when he says "The ball was still well inside any stakes, as these were on the other side of the cart path"

 

What if the cart path curved around him, so dropping on that side of the path would only put the ball closer to the hole. Granted he didn't say this...but without a picture of what he's talking about, this is one rule that could go either way.

 

At Torry Pines, Tiger's stance was affected by a cart path, but to take his drop it would have put a tree in play. So he opted to play from the cart path.

 

Maybe the poster was looking for "if the cart path affects the swing, can you get a free drop" and maybe he wasn't so worried about whether a drop was possible or not. But I'm just pointing that out.

 

I guess you are both correct in that it is a "free drop" but can he take a free drop in the situation he's in...well, I guess that's the real question.

 

Twist

[hbear]

The drop point is nearest point of full relief + 1 club.

 

As his ball is not on the path but instead in the rough. His nearest point of full relief would be on the SAME side of his ball, not on the other side of the path.

 

Unless his ball is sitting in a jutting of a crazy shaped path that goes right around his ball...AND the ball happens to be exactly inbetween the pin and the path, I don't see how he wouldn't be able to easily find proper relief.

 

Full relief might be further from the hole...but you can always find it.

Especially in his example, as I don't believe you are able to drop in a hazard.

 

You might not want to take relief as it might put you in a terrible position. Dropping into hay comes to mind....but he does have that option in his example.

[KevCarter]

Not all that easy to describe, but here goes -

 

Ball is sitting just off the fairway in the rough. It so happens though that the cart path next to the ball is raised above ground (about a foot off the ground for about 15 feet so it looks like a small bridge even though there isnt a stream or water of any sorts under it).

 

Now the stance isn't impacted by the cart path/bridge, but the swing clearly is. The question is whether you are able to take relief without penalty? The ball was still well inside any stakes, as these were on the other side of the cart path

 

Thanks

Matt

 

You bet. Free drop if the path interferes with stance or swing.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

Isn't more info needed to say "free drop?" Especially when he says "The ball was still well inside any stakes, as these were on the other side of the cart path"

 

What if the cart path curved around him, so dropping on that side of the path would only put the ball closer to the hole. Granted he didn't say this...but without a picture of what he's talking about, this is one rule that could go either way.

 

At Torry Pines, Tiger's stance was affected by a cart path, but to take his drop it would have put a tree in play. So he opted to play from the cart path.

 

Maybe the poster was looking for "if the cart path affects the swing, can you get a free drop" and maybe he wasn't so worried about whether a drop was possible or not. But I'm just pointing that out.

 

I guess you are both correct in that it is a "free drop" but can he take a free drop in the situation he's in...well, I guess that's the real question.

 

Twist

 

The "real" question was answered. The answer will always be yes, he is entitled to a free drop. The location of that drop is another question. Yes, we would need a diagram for that. It is possible that the player would decide his best option is to play the ball as it lies. That does not change the answer that he is entitled to a free drop if the path interferes with his swing.

 

Kevin

[777twist]

The "real" question was answered. The answer will always be yes, he is entitled to a free drop. The location of that drop is another question. Yes, we would need a diagram for that. It is possible that the player would decide his best option is to play the ball as it lies. That does not change the answer that he is entitled to a free drop if the path interferes with his swing.

 

Kevin

 

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. People should load pictures or illustrations of the holes...it would really help.

 

When determining the nearest point of relief, ...well, first it can't be any closer to the hole no matter what right? So, say he has 2 feet to the right of where his ball is...then he can take 1 club length which would be half-moon-shaped on a line from hole to ball. So he could drop in there. But agian, if he only had two feet to the right, that's really his only "relief" option, even if it puts his stance on the path, or his swing near a tree, etc... Otherwise, he would have to play it from where it lies, or go back to the original spot he hit from plus one stroke... does that sound correct. (btw, forget his question... I'm using "his" but really it's a modification of what he said... just so I can get a clear picture of what I would be able to do in the same situation).

 

Twist

[KevCarter]

The "real" question was answered. The answer will always be yes, he is entitled to a free drop. The location of that drop is another question. Yes, we would need a diagram for that. It is possible that the player would decide his best option is to play the ball as it lies. That does not change the answer that he is entitled to a free drop if the path interferes with his swing.

 

Kevin

 

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. People should load pictures or illustrations of the holes...it would really help.

 

When determining the nearest point of relief, ...well, first it can't be any closer to the hole no matter what right? So, say he has 2 feet to the right of where his ball is...then he can take 1 club length which would be half-moon-shaped on a line from hole to ball. So he could drop in there. But agian, if he only had two feet to the right, that's really his only "relief" option, even if it puts his stance on the path, or his swing near a tree, etc... Otherwise, he would have to play it from where it lies, or go back to the original spot he hit from plus one stroke... does that sound correct. (btw, forget his question... I'm using "his" but really it's a modification of what he said... just so I can get a clear picture of what I would be able to do in the same situation).

 

Twist

 

Twist,

 

I'm not sure I am completely understanding your question. Just a couple of comments.

 

When taking relief, you must take complete relief. If you are still standing on the path you need to drop again.

 

24-2b summarizes the basics of how to take relief.

 

b. Relief

 

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction as follows:

 

(i) Through the Green:If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the immovable obstruction and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

 

 

Using this summary the nearest point of relief is an absolute, non debateable spot. If that spot puts you in tall weeds or behind a tree, so be it. You need to check out your options before you pick up your ball. You may wish to play it as it is...

 

Kevin

[hbear]

And to further complicate things.

You determine your nearest point of FULL relief, then you can drop anywhere within a club of that (no closer to the hole) and the ball can roll an additional 2 clubs from the point of drop (as long as it's no closer to the hole) and still be in play.

 

I wish the USGA still had those animations describing/showing proper drop/relief procedures.