Sevam's swing theory discussion thread

[Tiltswing]

Hi again Tiltswing

I guess I've been thinking about Hogan's swing for over thirty years.

The thing that always bothers me when someone claims to know Hogan's secret is that it looks and sounds like the blueprints for the space shuttle. Hogan descibed for us the events leading up to and then getting his idea. It sounds like it came to him in an instant. Something like the apple falling out of the tree and hitting you on the head. That's what is so appealing about Sevam's idea. I don't doubt that all the explanations of where Hogan was at what point in his swing are true. I just don't know if anyone can think about all that and still swing the club. The best part of Sevam's idea is how easy it is think of while swinging.

Moefan

 

 

This is an open forum and whatever Tilt and 8 have mentioned in this topic has been mainly very impressive swing analysis. I've learned a lot... BTW, Sevam asked for their swing opinions of his action earlier today.

 

If they are so impressive then they should start their own threads about their theory's. I will be happy to read them.

 

 

Jason, I'm sorry, but WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE ANY MORE POSTS ABOUT SEVAM/"THE MOVE." The marshal just said NOT to do that, so why do you keep telling us to?

 

PS: There are plenty of threads about TGM

[RJC59]

Hi again Tiltswing

I guess I've been thinking about Hogan's swing for over thirty years.

The thing that always bothers me when someone claims to know Hogan's secret is that it looks and sounds like the blueprints for the space shuttle. Hogan descibed for us the events leading up to and then getting his idea. It sounds like it came to him in an instant. Something like the apple falling out of the tree and hitting you on the head. That's what is so appealing about Sevam's idea. I don't doubt that all the explanations of where Hogan was at what point in his swing are true. I just don't know if anyone can think about all that and still swing the club. The best part of Sevam's idea is how easy it is think of while swinging.

Moefan

 

 

This is an open forum and whatever Tilt and 8 have mentioned in this topic has been mainly very impressive swing analysis. I've learned a lot... BTW, Sevam asked for their swing opinions of his action earlier today.

 

If they are so impressive then they should start their own threads about their theory's. I will be happy to read them.

 

 

Honestly its harder to read this thread when you're sitting here complaining and making it miserable for not just you but absolutely everybody.

 

If you don't like what they have to say, use your mouse and continue to press the scroll button until you have bypassed it. Sevam1 does a good job of explaining difficult things in laments terms, and i'm sure you have learned a lot from him as many have... If you want to continue to learn further then eventually you are going to have to understand the terms the other guys are using as well, because their information is also extremely valuable and can't be explained in any other way.

[sevam1]

Sevam in your opinion have you "cracked" Mr Hogan's Secret ?

 

The secret is that everything that Hogan ever uttered about the golfswing is true from the 1955 Life Magazine article to every word in 5 Lessons to his conversations with Seitz and Peper and Vasquez and Demaret and Williams and Bolt and Moe (yes he and Moe talked, Kelly Murray can confirm that) and Byrd and on and on was true. He never ever contradicted himself. In spite of all of the revision of his words you will find that they all hold true if you understand the context of his pivot. I have brought the pivot to the table for discussion. The pivot is what unlocks the balance of the equation. That is the secret. The Secret Is In The Dirt. The pivot is what Moe told me was made his action ridiculously consistent and was what united his action and Hogan's. A pivot that retained significant pressure in the right foot until the hands passed the trail foot was the key. I am explaining to you what I have learned and what I was told. I put it into practice and practicing stopped being fun so I stopped. Watch Hogan do his demonstration swing at the end of the Shell match with Snead and you will be able to visually see the pressure leave through the ball of the right foot in unison with his hands passing that foot. That is the precise moment and point in the sequence of motion where the leverage is lost in the right foot. That is when the angles change and that is the Whoosh and that is the Hogan sound. All of the other angles that you speak of are smoke and mirrors. Hogan hit off of the ball of the right foot and yes the mass chases the hips. Understand this and you will find that there are no contradictions in the rest of what Hogan said.

 

Sevam1

[Dariusz J.]

Gents, stop doing everything for Mike ! You start threads for him and you even title the threads for him.

IMHO, only stupid, arrogant and greedy for money and/or popularity man can say he knows Mr.Hogan "secret". Mike's job here is to discuss The Move, to help golfers, well, maybe to earn some money on this occassion, too. The Move is not a Mr.Hogan's secret, for God's sake, it MAY BE only one puzzle to the secret, and even this is only a supposition and not a fact since Mr.Hogan is in better world and cannot comment it.

Let Mike create the thread himself and let him name it himself. Let only him be responsible for what he writes. Then, we all can discuss Sevam's theories objectively. I rally hate books or threads containing the expression "Hogan's Secret" and find them simply ridiculous.

 

Just my 3 €cents, cheers.

[yahtzeeuk]

i believe the move helps me not get into a position over my right foot brace better if you will , thats help me tighten up sloppy movements away from address... certainly helped my ball striking..

 

take what you need for your swing at the end of the day.... is it a secret who knows, something id not thought of...

 

 

Sevams a good orator i like the vids... ive read slice's texarkana ... took what i needed from both and im very grateful

 

i like trying things out... but maybe something new next week , the discussion is good, but its not about sevams individual swing is it?

 

surely its about the techniques involved ..........sevam has hybrid of moe/ hogans influences...

 

jeez mine probably got more then 2.... does it make me look like hogan maybe / maybe not..

 

cheers

[Swoosh-Thud]

Tilt.

 

In Bob Torrence's book he talks about "heel to toe" and "toe to heel" players with respect to the divot patterns being 3 til 12 and 3 after 12 respectively. He goes on to say the heel to toers are body players and toe heelers armsy players and talks about path to impact, finishes etc.

 

Do you suppose that is where the "secret is in the dirt" came from as Hogan was a body player? And that the heel leading the toe prevents a hook?

[DemolitionMan]

tiltswing, eightiron and fcavallo....DO NOT post in this thread again. You will have your equal space soon.

[DemolitionMan]

No more Hogan debates in this thread.

 

I have created a Hogan secret thread for all of you to debate until your heart's content. Keep the debate out of this thread.

 

If any of you have a post in here that you feel belongs in the Hogan secret thread, I suggest you cut/paste it soon because I will be deleting it from here. In fact, you have until 10 pm pacific time tonight to copy it, becasue at that time I will be doing some clean up and removing all posts not relevant to the discussion of the sevam swing.

 

This thread will also be retitled. Any future posts that even look borderline a problem will be deleted without notice.

 

Thank you.

[fats]

This thread will also be retitled. Any future posts that even look borderline a problem will be deleted without notice.

 

Thank you.

 

 

"This thread will also be retitled"

 

Thank you very much :)

[AmenCorner]

A lot of these are MORAD swings and a lot of them are works in progress but I think they are all very fine golf swings that show the principles of a MORAD/S&T swing.

 

Tilt,

 

Came in late in this thread that is going to be shut down...?

 

Glad you put in the reference to morad.

 

The S&T is, as you know, not a cp pattern. Got confused when you enclosed a clip with some cp swings.

[Squish]

Too sad about the Monster thread, there was a lot knowledge being passed around.

For any swing style it is important to find your balance. To get the feeling you are ready to spring.

I post this.

 

 

When you address the ball, get your gluts (butt), overhanging your heels, by setting your tibias (shin bones)

vertical as you can.. This move will pull the kneecaps back, without locking them, allowing your shoulders to cantilever your butt.

You will feel Front to back balance so you can raise the toes. You will feel the weight on the heels to the balls of the feet balanced.

An alert balance. Teeter front to back to find the balance. Your shoulders will be over your toe line.

Hold this front to back balance throughout the shot.

This will prevent you from stopping your turn, standing up through impact, bringing the right shoulder around, and hooking.

You will feel more drop of the right shoulder, on the oblique plane, swinging out, at the ball as you turn.

It will increase the club head speed.

 

 

 

I think of the Number 4 at address.

Keep the tibias as vertical as you can.

[kevn357]

Too sad about the Monster thread, there was a lot knowledge being passed around.

For any swing style it is important to find your balance. To get the feeling you are ready to spring.

I post this.

 

 

When you address the ball, get your gluts (butt), overhanging your heels, by setting your tibias (shin bones)

vertical as you can.. This move will pull the kneecaps back, without locking them, allowing your shoulders to cantilever your butt.

You will feel Front to back balance so you can raise the toes. You will feel the weight on the heels to the balls of the feet balanced.

An alert balance. Teeter front to back to find the balance. Your shoulders will be over your toe line.

Hold this front to back balance throughout the shot.

This will prevent you from stopping your turn, standing up through impact, bringing the right shoulder around, and hooking.

You will feel more drop of the right shoulder, on the oblique plane, swinging out, at the ball as you turn.

It will increase the club head speed.

 

 

 

I think of the Number 4 at address.

Keep the tibias as vertical as you can.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. I never thought of keeping my shin bones vertical when I try to get my posture right. It feels great actually and I feel very balanced with a nice, ready stretch in my calf and hamstring muscles. I think that is the feeling I've been missing lately. Thanks a ton!

[Kumabjorn]

 

I think of the Number 4 at address.

Keep the tibias as vertical as you can.

 

That is an excellent mnemonic.

Bring a "carpenter's ruler" (the one you can fold in several sections) and build the 4, then you can have someone holding it up behind you when you address the ball. That should give you instant feedback.

 

Sir Squish!

 

As always; a gentleman and a scholar.

Sincerely, appreciated!

 

Kuma

[supermario428]

Sevam1, i have to say that your ideas have inspired me to again try and if not become, get as close to a scratchplayer i can get. =)

 

Would you say you are pushing off with your right side more than you are pulling with you leftside from the top on the downswing?

 

Would there be any benefit with being a leftside dominant player instead of a rightside player? I feel that when im using my leftside to "pull" rather using my right to push, i cant get the "move" to work. And of late been thinking of switching to the pulling action as i seem to get into the slot alot easier that way.

 

Best Regards from cold sweden =)

/Mario

[Squish]

Interesting. I never thought of keeping my shin bones vertical when I try to get my posture right. It feels great actually and I feel very balanced with a nice, ready stretch in my calf and hamstring muscles. I think that is the feeling I've been missing lately. Thanks a ton!

 

Yes Sir

 

This will help you stay grounded through the shot, to keep the right heel lower to the ground through impact, letting it evert.

The right heel must detach from the turf at start of the downswing so you can post to, re-attach the left heel.

The weight of the upper body, including the head never shifts laterally, it rotates around the top of the spine.

It is the COG that swings under the weight of the upper body.

That in place weight of the turning upper body is the what the ball of the right foot is feeling in the downswing, through impact.

 

Why the heels must detach is to let the hip of the opposite side rotate around and under the spine.

You accomplish this by simply flexing the knee.

That minor flexing action along with the clockwise everting of the right foot , as you post left by turning the right hip under the spine.

It is the raising (detaching) of the right heel that lets the hips swing laterally. It is the clockwise screwing of the right tibia and fibula,

that turns the right hip through.

 

It's a compound action.

 

Let the right heel raise a little at transition, even with pitches and chips, to release the right hip.

 

The right hip must lead at any cost from the top. Hogan says turn it!

If you do not detach the heel as you evert, the right shoulder will take over.

If you get up on your right toe, you simply turned the knee and not the hip...There is no power there.

 

This is why you see Hogans heel lifting, but the ball of the foot is attached.

It must evert, the finest players do it.

Tiger is doing this now..... leading with the right heel.

[sevam1]

Sevam1, i have to say that your ideas have inspired me to again try and if not become, get as close to a scratchplayer i can get. =)

 

Would you say you are pushing off with your right side more than you are pulling with you leftside from the top on the downswing?

 

Would there be any benefit with being a leftside dominant player instead of a rightside player? I feel that when im using my leftside to "pull" rather using my right to push, i cant get the "move" to work. And of late been thinking of switching to the pulling action as i seem to get into the slot alot easier that way.

 

Best Regards from cold sweden =)

/Mario

 

Golf is a two sided game. Both sides have a role to play. The swing is a series of pushes pollas and rotations that must be grounded. The thing to know is that the left side pulls best against some pressure in the ball of the right foot and the right side likewise is better able to push with the benfit of this same resistance. The hips lead and you swing off of the ball of the right foot into the left leg.

Keep it simple.

Sevam1

[type-Verplank-one]

Sevam, I'm only 14 years old, so I'm not really understanding all of these ideas you and others have. I have seen your videos. I've tried to understand what I can, and it must be a pleasure to watch you hit balls. You make it so easy, so simple it's ridiculous!!

[Arafel]

Too sad about the Monster thread, there was a lot knowledge being passed around.

For any swing style it is important to find your balance. To get the feeling you are ready to spring.

I post this.

 

 

When you address the ball, get your gluts (butt), overhanging your heels, by setting your tibias (shin bones)

vertical as you can.. This move will pull the kneecaps back, without locking them, allowing your shoulders to cantilever your butt.

You will feel Front to back balance so you can raise the toes. You will feel the weight on the heels to the balls of the feet balanced.

An alert balance. Teeter front to back to find the balance. Your shoulders will be over your toe line.

Hold this front to back balance throughout the shot.

This will prevent you from stopping your turn, standing up through impact, bringing the right shoulder around, and hooking.

You will feel more drop of the right shoulder, on the oblique plane, swinging out, at the ball as you turn.

It will increase the club head speed.

 

 

 

I think of the Number 4 at address.

Keep the tibias as vertical as you can.

 

Thanks Squish for posting this again. I remember the vertical tibias being the second best piece of advice in the monster thread other than the move itself.

 

I remember this helping me quite a bit but strangely I think I have gradually stopped doing it and have completely forgotten about it.

 

Hopefully by the time spring rolls around I will remember this agian. :rolleyes:

[Squish]

Too sad about the Monster thread, there was a lot knowledge being passed around.

For any swing style it is important to find your balance. To get the feeling you are ready to spring.

I post this.

 

 

When you address the ball, get your gluts (butt), overhanging your heels, by setting your tibias (shin bones)

vertical as you can.. This move will pull the kneecaps back, without locking them, allowing your shoulders to cantilever your butt.

You will feel Front to back balance so you can raise the toes. You will feel the weight on the heels to the balls of the feet balanced.

An alert balance. Teeter front to back to find the balance. Your shoulders will be over your toe line.

Hold this front to back balance throughout the shot.

This will prevent you from stopping your turn, standing up through impact, bringing the right shoulder around, and hooking.

You will feel more drop of the right shoulder, on the oblique plane, swinging out, at the ball as you turn.

It will increase the club head speed.

 

 

 

I think of the Number 4 at address.

Keep the tibias as vertical as you can.

 

Thanks Squish for posting this again. I remember the vertical tibias being the second best piece of advice in the monster thread other than the move itself.

 

I remember this helping me quite a bit but strangely I think I have gradually stopped doing it and have completely forgotten about it.

 

Hopefully by the time spring rolls around I will remember this agian. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks,

 

Do it at every address. Find your balance.

 

Think about it, if you are going to screw something in, you want the screw as perpendicular to the work as it can get.

 

Let the femur be at the angle.

The knee then can act as a universal socket joint extension.

 

The entire member of the leg will lean left with the turn of the hip through impact.

The foot will drag on the inside of the great toe as the hip continues to turn to finish.

 

 

 

I think the 4 thought is a nice addition.

[Robmc826]

Well today for the first time today i employed what ive been reading from the book. I am happy to say that my ball striking was much better. I was htting the ball much crisper. The problem that i was having was hitting pushes out to the right. If i could straighten it out, i would be ecstatic. I know there is something that im doing wrong that would cause this. I think it is a combination of an open clubface, and being to inside coming into the ball.

 

Robert

[Richie3Jack]

Well today for the first time today i employed what ive been reading from the book. I am happy to say that my ball striking was much better. I was htting the ball much crisper. The problem that i was having was hitting pushes out to the right. If i could straighten it out, i would be ecstatic. I know there is something that im doing wrong that would cause this. I think it is a combination of an open clubface, and being to inside coming into the ball.

 

Robert

 

 

Where I usually get in trouble using what's in the book is doing one of the following:

 

1) Getting weight on my toes --- if I'm doing that, I'll just get it so I can raise my toes off the ground.

 

2) Losing the torque on the inside of the right leg a little. I can lose it only a little and it can still effect my shot.

 

If I keep away from those two things, usually I just murder the ball.

 

 

 

 

3JACK

[Robmc826]

I will try that next time. I believe im feeling the sensation of the torque. It is just hard to tell. My impatience is what kills. I have to stick with it. Also is there a key to hitting the ball lower. It seems no matter what im a high ball hitter. I would really like to be able to have a more penetrating flight.

 

Robert

[Squish]

I will try that next time. I believe im feeling the sensation of the torque. It is just hard to tell. My impatience is what kills. I have to stick with it. Also is there a key to hitting the ball lower. It seems no matter what im a high ball hitter. I would really like to be able to have a more penetrating flight.

 

Robert

 

Yes

 

It sounds to me you are diagnosing your fault correctly.

 

When you torque the right femur and fibula from the top, let the right shoulder drop over the toe line as you clear the left hip.

Turn the hips, let the left shoulder rise up plane as the right hip comes out.

 

It sounds as you were dropping the right shoulder inside, below the shoulder plane. Don't stop the shoulders from turning.

They turn in conjunction with the hips, in a fearless manner.

 

By dropping inside you add more loft to the club in hand, and most certainly will high push as your swing path is too inside out.

 

Swing in a circle.

 

Let the right shoulder drop over the toe line and you will deloft for a lower trajectory, you will not pull.

[Richie3Jack]

What I found is that when I do the foot screw, it's very easy to get the big toe on the right foot to screw in and be the pressure point instead of the ball of the foot to be the pressure point. That gets weight on your toes. As Shawn Clement says (he doesn't use Sevam's method), the arches of your feet should feel like suction cups to the ground.

 

You should feel the torque easily when you screw the foot into the ground, it's just very easy to let it go a little when you get to the top of the swing, so it just takes some practice.

 

One thing I found with the 'secret' is that the thru pivot of the hips feels like it almost repels or "bounces off" the torque created on the inside of the right leg.

 

 

 

3JACK

[Robmc826]

So literally let my right shoulder go past my toes as i start my downswing? To get used to the screw action would actively making sure that it does not come up in the swing?

 

Robert

[Squish]

So literally let my right shoulder go past my toes as i start my downswing? To get used to the screw action would actively making sure that it does not come up in the swing?

 

Robert

 

Yes Sir

 

Like this:

 

[Robmc826]

I see what you meaan thank you very much for the illustration.

 

Robert

[Squish]

Sevam1, i have to say that your ideas have inspired me to again try and if not become, get as close to a scratchplayer i can get. =)

 

Would you say you are pushing off with your right side more than you are pulling with you leftside from the top on the downswing?

 

Would there be any benefit with being a leftside dominant player instead of a rightside player? I feel that when im using my leftside to "pull" rather using my right to push, i cant get the "move" to work. And of late been thinking of switching to the pulling action as i seem to get into the slot alot easier that way.

 

Best Regards from cold sweden =)

/Mario

 

Interesting

 

I stated on the Monster thread at the beginning, that when I had my 3 magic scratch rounds, (as a +15 capper) my only thought was inverting the left foot.

Rotating the tibia around the fibias clockwise, as I flexed the left knee to the top.

I pronated the left and supinated the right forearm in the classic Hogan manner to the top, cupping the left wrist.

The pulling pressure was still left due to the clockwise screwing, I backshifted into into and against the flexed left knee, letting the right leg sag, and did not let the flexed left break down.

 

From there I simply turned the left knee out as I everted the right foot, pulling the right side around, letting the torso swing the arms.

Every shot was a long fade, driver through wedge.

 

I learned this from a Bobby Jones sybervision vcr tape my lovely wife purchased the night before. As we were on vacation at the beach.

As I made this **** little movement with the the left foot. I thought of Hogan stating "The great players play from the ground up".

I practiced the foot work in front of the mirror at the condo, woke up and went to the course range with an eight iron, it worked perfectly.

I powered my entire motion around that inverting left foot. I muffed only one shot off the tee with a 2 Iron on a bet.

I had trouble in the sand The only time I went in, missing the green on a drive. I two putted the whole time.

 

I distinctly remember my release.

 

Yes you can clockwise invert the left foot and swing like a pro.

 

These were remarkable rounds witnessed by locals.

 

That was the secret for me.

[darpar]

Too sad about the Monster thread, there was a lot knowledge being passed around.

For any swing style it is important to find your balance. To get the feeling you are ready to spring.

I post this.

 

 

When you address the ball, get your gluts (butt), overhanging your heels, by setting your tibias (shin bones)

vertical as you can.. This move will pull the kneecaps back, without locking them, allowing your shoulders to cantilever your butt.

You will feel Front to back balance so you can raise the toes. You will feel the weight on the heels to the balls of the feet balanced.

An alert balance. Teeter front to back to find the balance. Your shoulders will be over your toe line.

Hold this front to back balance throughout the shot.

This will prevent you from stopping your turn, standing up through impact, bringing the right shoulder around, and hooking.

You will feel more drop of the right shoulder, on the oblique plane, swinging out, at the ball as you turn.

It will increase the club head speed.

 

 

 

I think of the Number 4 at address.

Keep the tibias as vertical as you can.

 

Thanks Squish for posting this again. I remember the vertical tibias being the second best piece of advice in the monster thread other than the move itself.

 

I remember this helping me quite a bit but strangely I think I have gradually stopped doing it and have completely forgotten about it.

 

Hopefully by the time spring rolls around I will remember this agian. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks,

 

Do it at every address. Find your balance.

 

Think about it, if you are going to screw something in, you want the screw as perpendicular to the work as it can get.

 

Let the femur be at the angle.

The knee then can act as a universal socket joint extension.

 

The entire member of the leg will lean left with the turn of the hip through impact.

The foot will drag on the inside of the great toe as the hip continues to turn to finish.

 

 

 

I think the 4 thought is a nice addition.

 

So in order to get the shins perpendicular,you'd have to use a pretty narrow stance,

correct?

Otherwise you'd have to stand kind of bowlegged.

[kevn357]

I will try that next time. I believe im feeling the sensation of the torque. It is just hard to tell. My impatience is what kills. I have to stick with it. Also is there a key to hitting the ball lower. It seems no matter what im a high ball hitter. I would really like to be able to have a more penetrating flight.

 

Robert

 

Yes

 

It sounds to me you are diagnosing your fault correctly.

 

When you torque the right femur and fibula from the top, let the right shoulder drop over the toe line as you clear the left hip.

Turn the hips, let the left shoulder rise up plane as the right hip comes out.

 

It sounds as you were dropping the right shoulder inside, below the shoulder plane. Don't stop the shoulders from turning.

They turn in conjunction with the hips, in a fearless manner.

 

By dropping inside you add more loft to the club in hand, and most certainly will high push as your swing path is too inside out.

 

Swing in a circle.

 

Let the right shoulder drop over the toe line and you will deloft for a lower trajectory, you will not pull.

 

 

 

 

Any tips on keeping your shoulders on plane? I don't see what you mean by the pictures above. I drop my right shoulder too much to start my downswing and my hips clear just fine but I tend to attack the ball way to far from the inside. Which leads to swinging dtl and occasional flips.

 

Also, stupid question but, what exactly is the shoulder plane? I see that term used in different ways.

 

Thanks for the help. Loved the #4 today. Bombed quite a few drives and really stayed in balance in spite of my release.