Sevam's swing theory discussion thread

[eightiron]

Slice varies the weight at set-up depending on the club. For a driver most of the weight on the right side.

 

 

Slice is right or should I say correct so no one gets confused. ;) As you narrow the stance and open the stance or conversely widen and close the stance you will find that the preset weight will favour one side or another. This is really just a matter of balance. So as you move through the bag the ratios of weight right and left will change. We may disagree about how much is right or left in terms of degree, but the fundamental principles of it are clear. How you apply this is just another matter and whether you preset weight or move it dynamically is a matter of technique.

 

Although I see the merits of the Stack and Tilt method. I also see some limitations. A complete golfer probably will have elements of S&T in the short irons using the right leg primarily as a brace on certain shots but will have a more right side orientation as he/she moves through the bag finally reaching the driver. To me a complete golfer will understand elements of both ends of the spectrum.

 

Sevam1

 

Not sure if you were implying it or not, but slice doesn't teach stack and tilt.

 

 

Sorry. I thought everyone knew that Slicefixer did not teach S&T. He and I both share the same cocerns about its' limitations is what I was trying to say.

 

Sevam1

 

 

And can you enlighten us all on these limitations since all the different windows the can be hit within the pattern

 

The primary limitations that concern me pertain to adjusting the method to suit various lie conditions. How adaptable is a lead leg single pivot point focus to say uphill lie conditions or certain side hill lies as well. There are also some limitations that people encounter with respect to distance. I am not saying that S&T does not yield results distance wise that are sufficient to compete. Clearly there are pros winning using the method, but you have to be one hell of a specimen to bomb it with that method. I cannot deny that the method is extremely accurate either for those who can master it. Every method has its strengths and weaknesses. Knowing them is of course part of course management and the art of playing golf.

 

Sevam1

 

Why would uphill lie or sidehill lie make a difference? Why do you think the main focus is the lead leg singlepivot?

[DemolitionMan]

I was an early contributor and admirer of the original thread. I think it lost the plot about 70 pages in, then regained some footing a little later only to become a 10 car pile up at the end there. But man what fun we had... :friends:

 

I would like to see this thread remain open. In light of DemoMan's Choice above (keep this or the e-book thread) I have something to say. It's going to sound a little harsh, so I must preface it. I greatly respect all of the teaching pros who are giving their time here on the boards. The brilliance of this place over any other I've seen is that the Agendas are all about helping and learning. Sevam1 lives up to this ethic as well or better than anyone here. However, the longer that a thread like the one devoted to the e-book stays open with a lot of active participation by Sevam1 in that thread...well, my humble opinion is that the appearance of this board's superb ethic starts to cross a line. I think the same is true, to a degree, with the pure ball striking gizmo. I understand that the teaching pros are in business for business. However, I really feel that the great ethic of this board is starting to reach a point that we should be open and chat about where it's going. My two cents.

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

I say this jokingly, but it is true. The e-book thread wouldn't have normally gone on as long as it did, but sevam's rabid fans are fast and relentless. By the time we get around to it, it looks like we (golfwrx) are endorsing a product, but really we're just slow to moderate sometimes. Or a thread looks okay at first, you go to bed, then the next day it's a rah-rah fest. ;)

 

Regardless, point is taken, and all members here should feel assured that GolfWRX is not endorsing one swing theory over another, we are not trying to let one member drum up business while stopping another. It is our goal to evenly apply policy, ask any member looking to make a buck to become a sponsor and operate within those guidelines, and generally keep the peace. We're human, the swing forum is not exactly any of our favorites, so sometimes we're a little slow to see what's going on in here. But when it is brought to light, we do fall back on our overall principles. Again, if anyone sees it differently or if we are lagging, then hit the violation button and we'll look into it.

 

With the many swing theories out there and their proponents, we are trying to keep the forum a little more tidy by heading towards a one theory proponent / one open thread for questions approach. This way all members can see choices, they can see debates, they leaders have their soap box, and it's all in one place. Hopefully in the end, all members see the popularity of one thread over another is driven by members, not GolfWRX policy.

 

Happy New Year.

 

Now I think there will be a Daly thread or two or three heating up somewhere......

[sevam1]

 

Why would uphill lie or sidehill lie make a difference? Why do you think the main focus is the lead leg singlepivot?

 

My impression may be wrong but I thought that on the backswing the spine maintains a targetward lean with the right leg basically forming a post to support that lean from behind. On the down swing the move is left with the left leg essentially pushing upward from the ground so that you are delivering the club solidly from on top of the forward foot. I may have this description a little wrong, but with the movements that I have seen described I am having trouble figuring out how to work with the left foot above the right to any major degree. It just seems like that vertical thrust from the lead leg is necessay and that it would be difficult to execute from an uphill lie.

 

If I've got the motion wrong an explanation would be great.

 

Sevam1

[Poke]

They are, indeed, more alike than different, though! :)

 

 

Nope. Not even close.

 

<snip>

 

There's nothing wrong with a Ballard like swing and DTL release though. Absolutely nothing, but there is a better mousetrap.

I'm pretty sure the poster I quoted and myself see some differences, just not as many as you apparently do. Capture Sevam's swing at the top and he is nowhere near being stacked on top of the right leg.

 

I don't appreciate the twist of the tone and spirit of my post (as I thought was evidenced by the exclamation point and smilie), but it is what it is and differences are realized.

 

While the detractors may or may not be right about the location of the secret(s) or breaking down photos of individual swings, they completely miss the point of conversation we are having in these threads. Sevam1 never claims to swing like Hogan, he does a Hogan imitation that has more of a low-left release, he does a Moe imitation that is even more dtl than Frank’s post shows, he or someone else, I can’t remember, coined his swing a Moegan. What he claims and what I among others here have found extremely effective is that the move is a common denominator to their swings and can be used as a base for a variety of others: the rest depends on our idiosyncrasies and ability to dig dirt. The move pre-sets and automates a turn into the right hip (varying degrees of severity of this can be chosen) and if maintained through transition automates the cog shift back to the left. It is even a common denominator in Squish’s (who graciously gave us the term eversion and a bio-mechanical explanation for it) Mike Austin based swing theory. I believe, a subtle version of it can help power a S&T/Morad swing: it keeps your hips working dtl the line until the club reaches the impact zone, take a look at some of the pros you use it or Mike McNary’s swing and how they delay the hips from opening and leverage the inside of the right foot through impact.

 

 

Personally, I was working on Slice’s theory and not getting it until I learned about the move. Now my stock drill for warming up or as a touchstone when I’m struggling is my own version of Slice’s 9/3 (reverse K, left hip stays over the right foot) with a heavy dose of right foot pre-torque as a brace and when swing well at the range can effectively experiment with a variety of backswings, pivots and releases all based off the move.

[sevam1]

Hey Sevam,

 

With S&T the spine isn't supposed to be leaning left at the top, that would look like Couples/Nicklaus/Monty, this picture shows that pretty well:

 

This picture is NOT S&T it's a Couples/Monty pivot.

 

 

This is what the S&T spine angle should look like at the top:

 

 

Tiger's spine angle is exactly what S&T should be like.

 

Not sure what you mean by a vertical thrust of the left leg, from the top, weight is just supposed to go left like any other swing method. Hope this helps.

 

I wasn't meaning from the top. I was talking about on the downswing moving throught he ball. I'll look at what you are saying but it looks to me that eveyone using this action stands up through the ball.

 

Looking at Tiger it doesn't seem like the kind of lean I have seen demonstrated when people are talking about S&T. Are the other pictures and descriptions of this exagerrating the positons to illustrate something? I'm not sure where Stack and Tilt starts and where a more traditional motion begins.

 

Sevam1

[sevam1]

Hey Sevam,

 

With S&T the spine isn't supposed to be leaning left at the top, that would look like Couples/Nicklaus/Monty, this picture shows that pretty well:

 

This picture is NOT S&T it's a Couples/Monty pivot.

 

 

This is what the S&T spine angle should look like at the top:

 

 

Tiger's spine angle is exactly what S&T should be like.

 

Not sure what you mean by a vertical thrust of the left leg, from the top, weight is just supposed to go left like any other swing method. Hope this helps.

 

Tiger got that lower cog more forward and hips more shut off coming down ( delayed a bit longer ) and thats Hogan..so how come the move don't make this happen for you Sevam?

 

eightiron,

 

I will try to see if we filmed anything from behind like this during the summer and I will have a look at it and see what the differences are and get back to you.

 

Sevam1

[sevam1]

Hey Sevam,

 

With S&T the spine isn't supposed to be leaning left at the top, that would look like Couples/Nicklaus/Monty, this picture shows that pretty well:

 

This picture is NOT S&T it's a Couples/Monty pivot.

 

 

This is what the S&T spine angle should look like at the top:

 

 

Tiger's spine angle is exactly what S&T should be like.

 

Not sure what you mean by a vertical thrust of the left leg, from the top, weight is just supposed to go left like any other swing method. Hope this helps.

 

I wasn't meaning from the top. I was talking about on the downswing moving throught he ball. I'll look at what you are saying but it looks to me that eveyone using this action stands up through the ball.

 

Looking at Tiger it doesn't seem like the kind of lean I have seen demonstrated when people are talking about S&T. Are the other pictures and descriptions of this exagerrating the positons to illustrate something? I'm not sure where Stack and Tilt starts and where a more traditional motion begins.

 

Sevam1

 

Sevam,

 

This is an exaggeration:

 

 

None of them are actually in that position when playing, it is meant to show a feel. Tiger's spine angle is exactly what they're looking for, VERTICAL, not tilted left. I have worked with both S&T and MORAD instructors, so trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

 

I don't see a "stand-up": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf-4HExppFk . Like every other good ball striker he releases his flex from the waist through impact, so did Hogan. But you can see that Badds is still tilted towards the target line into the finish (side-bend). So this "stand-up" action is not unique.

 

I'd say Hogan has way more "stand-up" in his swing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J53J7D0QPmw

 

I would like to see some more S&T swings face on. Can you post some youtube links to some decent examples?

 

Sevam1

[sevam1]

Hey Sevam,

 

With S&T the spine isn't supposed to be leaning left at the top, that would look like Couples/Nicklaus/Monty, this picture shows that pretty well:

 

This picture is NOT S&T it's a Couples/Monty pivot.

 

 

This is what the S&T spine angle should look like at the top:

 

 

Tiger's spine angle is exactly what S&T should be like.

 

Not sure what you mean by a vertical thrust of the left leg, from the top, weight is just supposed to go left like any other swing method. Hope this helps.

 

Tiger got that lower cog more forward and hips more shut off coming down ( delayed a bit longer ) and thats Hogan..so how come the move don't make this happen for you Sevam?

 

eightiron,

 

I will try to see if we filmed anything from behind like this during the summer and I will have a look at it and see what the differences are and get back to you.

 

Sevam1

 

You really do still believe you have Hogan's pivot/secret? Its kind of obvious the pivot is way to much sway to it ...so how can the whole feet screwing be the Secret?

 

Well. It has as much sway as I want to put into it. If I want to hit the ball further I move the hips further and faster. That's how I control my wedge distances also so I kind of don't get the point. I control the clubhead speed with the feet and the hips. I did a video on the Navel which was about just that. If you want to bomb it you do it by moving the center further and faster. If you want to just hit it regular it's a little tighter. You make a little move but it's all the same move.

 

Sevam1

[RJC59]

Well, educate us then :)

 

 

 

shifting weight past the instep of the right foot, without rotation of the hip joints....

 

 

usually looking like so....

 

 

 

 

 

Sevam does not sway, he quite simply just gets momentum going hard into the right instep as his first move, that way it relays back as soon as possible to get his naval moving left. Even though he talks about the feeling of being on his right side through the downswing, its impossible to know where in actuality you are in .02 of a second.. our feet and brain are too far apart and our nervous system is simply too slow.... Note how his left hip is over his downswing pivot point by the time his backswing is finished. If anything all he feels compression/leverage with the ground in his right foot throughout the swing, and it is being misconstrued as weight. This is something that someone who sways absolutely cannot have.

[RJC59]

I think a lot of you guys who blew their wallets on lessons from ill-informed teachers (like 95% of todays golfers) are misunderstanding what a "sway" is.

 

 

RJC59, I'm not really sure what you mean by this. How's about this I won't use the term "sway." I'll say Sevam has significantly more backwards shifting of his COGs than Hogan which moves low-point around and can make consistent, solid contact difficult.

 

 

 

I won't disagree that it is moving his low point around a tiny bit, but the benefits from doing this outweigh the possibility of chunking/thinning any shots, for the most part the average player will have contact problems just out of lack of coordination, but for the better player with good coordination and feel, contact is not a problem, and the result is not so much changing the low point and risking a mishit, but actually changing the shot shape and speed of the club head.. so you can sort of feel the effort your putting into the shot better by the amount of momentum your putting into the right instep..

 

just my opinion though

[RJC59]

the last thing i want to do is teach golf. most of you guys know a lot more than I do. I'm just going by what works for me.

 

tournament golf is where my heart is

 

 

Tell you what...Then IMOP you will succeed...Just get equipment that is better than you are and setup so it eases your worry about going left. I like your power...good luck to you...once you have a fine swing like yours, equipment is what allows you to rock and roll, and there is some great stuff out there...Nike looks extremely good for 2009.

 

 

thank you for the kind words. I've never talked to you but know your place in this forum, so it means a lot coming from someone that accomplished.

 

I knew absolutely nothing about equipment until about a month ago when i started working at nevada bobs.. I can understand how much of a difference maker it really is now. I'm playing with 4 year old mizuno mp 37s with no grooves left, a x stiff driver, but a regular to stiff 3 wood, two putters in the bag, and an assortment of wedges with no grooves left.. Not one club fitted for me almost all different brands... I'm going to get fit and man up and buy some new irons. I'm not a fan of nike, but Callaway also looks good for 09.

[sevam1]

Hey Sevam,

 

With S&T the spine isn't supposed to be leaning left at the top, that would look like Couples/Nicklaus/Monty, this picture shows that pretty well:

 

This picture is NOT S&T it's a Couples/Monty pivot.

 

 

This is what the S&T spine angle should look like at the top:

 

 

Tiger's spine angle is exactly what S&T should be like.

 

Not sure what you mean by a vertical thrust of the left leg, from the top, weight is just supposed to go left like any other swing method. Hope this helps.

 

I wasn't meaning from the top. I was talking about on the downswing moving throught he ball. I'll look at what you are saying but it looks to me that eveyone using this action stands up through the ball.

 

Looking at Tiger it doesn't seem like the kind of lean I have seen demonstrated when people are talking about S&T. Are the other pictures and descriptions of this exagerrating the positons to illustrate something? I'm not sure where Stack and Tilt starts and where a more traditional motion begins.

 

Sevam1

 

Sevam,

 

This is an exaggeration:

 

 

None of them are actually in that position when playing, it is meant to show a feel. Tiger's spine angle is exactly what they're looking for, VERTICAL, not tilted left. I have worked with both S&T and MORAD instructors, so trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

 

I don't see a "stand-up": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf-4HExppFk . Like every other good ball striker he releases his flex from the waist through impact, so did Hogan. But you can see that Badds is still tilted towards the target line into the finish (side-bend). So this "stand-up" action is not unique.

 

I'd say Hogan has way more "stand-up" in his swing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J53J7D0QPmw

 

I would like to see some more S&T swings face on. Can you post some youtube links to some decent examples?

 

Sevam1

 

No problem Sevam, here you go:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSlVXmqp8QU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTx8lSWBb6c...re=channel_page

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgbubywoLCw

 

(this one starts DTL and shifts to Face on)

 

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z264/Da...nt=clarkcor.flv

 

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z264/Da...addieViewWi.flv

 

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z264/Da...baddscaddie.flv

 

Well. I have looked at the swings and I will say this as compliments. They are smooth, round, centered and efficient. I am not here to knock anybody's method. Now as far as the limitations regarding difficulties adjusting to certain lie conditions I will take that back because these swings are not the swings that I am seeing illustated in the pictures like the one you posted of Baddely which is him posing an exxagerated position that he actually does not get into in the actual swing. I think that these types of photo's would mislead others about the technique.

 

Now onto the swings in those videos. They look basically like a swing I worked on a long time ago and dropped not because it was unsound but rather because for me personally it couldn't stand up to the long walk. The one from the practice tee to the first tee and it had nothing to do with the mechanics of the swing. It is not a deficiency in the technique but had to do with my mind and my temperment.

 

When I get excited I get quick. I can't help it. It is just what happens to me. An action that smooth and sequenced I could never manage in a competitive situation and I found that out a long time ago. Others with either the right temperment, or the temperment for more practice than I am capable of now or just very big cajons will manage it fine.

 

You've all watched my videos. Do you hear my temperment in those videos. You hear me getting fast talking to the Cameraman. Do you think in a million years that I could fashion a smooth action like in those McNary videos that would hold up for 10 minutes away from the practice range with my temperment? Not gonna happen. I could and have done work on a move like that but with me it gets left on the practice tee.

 

The way I managed pressure was through my hands and the clubhead. I built a swing that reacted positively to firm grip pressure. When I get excited I squeeze harder and make a small adjustment for some lost distance I lose 5 yards but it actually goes straighter. Most swings when you squeeze harder it all goes for a dump.

 

Now I could start preset a little more right or with my feet a little closer together, but closer together will not work for me because my shoulders are very wide so I would have balance issues. The little move right also puts the early speed into that clubhead that I can react to on the backswing. I need that speed and to feel the pull of the clubhead. That move right is also now a bit of a trigger move for me like Snead and Player did with their little forward press. Moe wanted to make golf as close to a reaction sport as he could. That's why he hit em so quick. Even putts. "miss em quick" is what he said.

 

I am going to Florida at the end of January and hopefully I can get to a range and put a varietyof things on tape that we can talk about.

 

Sevam1

[xiaoxiong]

Well. I have looked at the swings and I will say this as compliments. They are smooth, round, centered and efficient. I am not here to knock anybody's method. Now as far as the limitations regarding difficulties adjusting to certain lie conditions I will take that back because these swings are not the swings that I am seeing illustated in the pictures like the one you posted of Baddely which is him posing an exxagerated position that he actually does not get into in the actual swing. I think that these types of photo's would mislead others about the technique.

 

Now onto the swings in those videos. They look basically like a swing I worked on a long time ago and dropped not because it was unsound but rather because for me personally it couldn't stand up to the long walk. The one from the practice tee to the first tee and it had nothing to do with the mechanics of the swing. It is not a deficiency in the technique but had to do with my mind and my temperment.

 

When I get excited I get quick. I can't help it. It is just what happens to me. An action that smooth and sequenced I could never manage in a competitive situation and I found that out a long time ago. Others with either the right temperment, or the temperment for more practice than I am capable of now or just very big cajons will manage it fine.

 

You've all watched my videos. Do you hear my temperment in those videos. You hear me getting fast talking to the Cameraman. Do you think in a million years that I could fashion a smooth action like in those McNary videos that would hold up for 10 minutes away from the practice range with my temperment? Not gonna happen. I could and have done work on a move like that but with me it gets left on the practice tee.

 

The way I managed pressure was through my hands and the clubhead. I built a swing that reacted positively to firm grip pressure. When I get excited I squeeze harder and make a small adjustment for some lost distance I lose 5 yards but it actually goes straighter. Most swings when you squeeze harder it all goes for a dump.

 

Now I could start preset a little more right or with my feet a little closer together, but closer together will not work for me because my shoulders are very wide so I would have balance issues. The little move right also puts the early speed into that clubhead that I can react to on the backswing. I need that speed and to feel the pull of the clubhead. That move right is also now a bit of a trigger move for me like Snead and Player did with their little forward press. Moe wanted to make golf as close to a reaction sport as he could. That's why he hit em so quick. Even putts. "miss em quick" is what he said.

 

I am going to Florida at the end of January and hopefully I can get to a range and put a varietyof things on tape that we can talk about.

 

Sevam1

 

Mike, those words are soooooo true. Ultimately one need find a type of swing work for HIM and fits HIS temperament under the gun!!!

 

Happy New Year, all golf nuts!!!

 

Cheers,

[martinez]

Tilt...I like that Clark Corbett guy...pretty neat swing...especially like impact zone and through...what he does is what I'm working on...it really makes sense to me...I like the balance of the action.

 

He looks like a striker. I'm going out on a limb and say he'd strike it well using any and all methods that held any merit at all. Not knocking S+T as I believe my swing has somehow gone more that way recently without any knowledge of the method or access to what it is all about. I have been and am in the wilderness.

 

I believe that if Sevam1 played full time competitively he would tighten up his "move" away from the target while retaining the essence of his "move". I thought the same thing when I first saw it, but I have personally been impressed equally with his theory side of things. I don't have to agree with everything someone says and can still be impressed with their passion in their beliefs.

 

What a strange game where I can agree with and be impressed by one man, yet agree almost entirely with one of his biggest detractors.

 

It's very easy for strikers to discover things, secrets.....The real test comes in the heat of tournament play. I think I've found my secret (have had many but none that continuously have me improving everyday for 6 months like this one), will know for sure in a year or two.

[sevam1]

Tilt...I like that Clark Corbett guy...pretty neat swing...especially like impact zone and through...what he does is what I'm working on...it really makes sense to me...I like the balance of the action.

 

He looks like a striker. I'm going out on a limb and say he'd strike it well using any and all methods that held any merit at all. Not knocking S+T as I believe my swing has somehow gone more that way recently without any knowledge of the method or access to what it is all about. I have been and am in the wilderness.

 

I believe that if Sevam1 played full time competitively he would tighten up his "move" away from the target while retaining the essence of his "move". I thought the same thing when I first saw it, but I have personally been impressed equally with his theory side of things. I don't have to agree with everything someone says and can still be impressed with their passion in their beliefs.

 

What a strange game where I can agree with and be impressed by one man, yet agree almost entirely with one of his biggest detractors.

 

It's very easy for strikers to discover things, secrets.....The real test comes in the heat of tournament play. I think I've found my secret (have had many but none that continuously have me improving everyday for 6 months like this one), will know for sure in a year or two.

 

Martinez,

 

Things may be tightening up sooner rather than later. After 10 years I am dusting off the clubs. I am going to be dropping the 40 lbs of beer and cheese that surrounds my middle and I am going to try to reel back the clock to 1998 when I really had it together.

 

My 9 year old says that he wants to play so I will be getting into it again.

 

As of tomorrow morning I am officially back in training.

 

Step 1. The Requisite Strength. I am meeting with a personal trainer tomorrow.

 

 

Happy New Year Everybody.

 

Sevam1

[moefan]

Hi Sevam

Could you tell me where (in what book? ) Hogan says he Harleyed it.

Moefan

[sevam1]

Hi Sevam

Could you tell me where (in what book? ) Hogan says he Harleyed it.

Moefan

 

Like the others, Payne used a folded-over towel to field the balls, usually after the first or second bounce, and to wipe them clean before returning them to the bag. "Frankly, it was a little boring. But then after he had hit four or five drives to me at about 250 yards, the next one looked as if it went straight up in the air. I said, 'Alright! He skied one! He's human,' and I ran in a few steps. But then I saw he hadn't skied it at all, he had just hit one on a different trajectory. The ball sailed way over my head, by at least twenty yards. He told me later he had just 'Harleyed' it—given it a little more gas."

 

I have a print article. Here it is reprinted on the web.

 

http://www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/art...s/the-hogan-way

 

Sevam1

[fats]

Hi Sevam

Could you tell me where (in what book? ) Hogan says he Harleyed it.

Moefan

 

 

*Harleyed it* in tour talk means turned his right hand over ...usually means a big hook...most use the term indicating they hooked it in the deep stuff like the 72nd hole at the US Open at the Olympic Club when Hogan Harleyed one and made double bogie. As in Harley Davidson Motorcycles.

[sevam1]

 

All of Hogan's cogs move forward to the left..watch how late the 2nd tilt happens..belt buckle at impact is so far forward..is the move doing this ??

 

I can't find anything film from the behind me. I don't know exactly what you are looking for. I cut some stuff out of the Navel video that's on YouTube because I put that stupid thing on to show where the center went. The shots are of the top and just as the hands pass the right leg. That is when the mass start to shoot into into the left leg. Thebelt buckle tells the story of what the hips ar doing I think. That's the white thing I strapped on.

 

I don't know what if this is related to what you are talking about or not but here it is.

 

Sevam1

[sevam1]

You convinced this guy so he changed his swing...LOL

 

 

I would guess he improved.

Sevam1

[puttmaster]

Sorry Mr Puttmaster i have no swings available for you to view..I take it you don't like my analysis? Just stating what i see...I have a question mark on the "move" creating these differences compared to Mr Hogan

 

??? Not sure how you gathered that from my post. Rather, I was looking to see your swing action in order to have a frame of reference for your comments and analysis. Thanks...puttmaster

[sevam1]

 

All of Hogan's cogs move forward to the left..watch how late the 2nd tilt happens..belt buckle at impact is so far forward..is the move doing this ??

 

I can't find anything film from the behind me. I don't know exactly what you are looking for. I cut some stuff out of the Navel video that's on YouTube because I put that stupid thing on to show where the center went. The shot are of the top and just as the hands pass the right leg. That is when the mass start to shoot into into the left leg. Thebelt buckle tells the story of what the hips ar doing I think. That's the white thing I strapped on.

 

I don't know what if this is related to what you are talking about or not but here it is.

 

Sevam1

 

 

3 cog's are Tailbone/Upper spine/Head ..Hogan's are way more forward and left post secret ( or as people are looking at your pictures ..to the right )..Hogan moves the Tailbone forward early in the backswing ..then upper center in transition ..then the head..to release point ( your second pic is this spot) ..then creates 2nd tilt while the Tailbone releases

 

The key maybe in how Hogan gets that 2nd Tilt after being so "On top of it" so to speak...Texan Golf touched on this with the right wrist bend and flat lie angles of the clubs...maybe..or could well be his right elbow supinating all the way down from end top to impact..plus just staring at the ball from release point

 

Coming into impact you are gone already...right shoulder his hanging back and under..your hips have lost the rotational speed from the cog ( hips) being to far back and you proceed to flip the club and release way right ..

 

Imop

 

eightiron,

 

I added the next pic. I need to know what I need to do to stop the insidious flip that has inflitratrated my action while I took those 9 years off and got fat. Any recs? What can I do to get my hands ahead at impact with the back of the left wrist facing the target while also still maintaining some cup in the right wrist through the impact zone. I need to know. I am going to try to play again in 2009. It is almost day 1. I need to know.

 

Sevam1

[sevam1]

 

All of Hogan's cogs move forward to the left..watch how late the 2nd tilt happens..belt buckle at impact is so far forward..is the move doing this ??

 

I can't find anything film from the behind me. I don't know exactly what you are looking for. I cut some stuff out of the Navel video that's on YouTube because I put that stupid thing on to show where the center went. The shot are of the top and just as the hands pass the right leg. That is when the mass start to shoot into into the left leg. Thebelt buckle tells the story of what the hips ar doing I think. That's the white thing I strapped on.

 

I don't know what if this is related to what you are talking about or not but here it is.

 

Sevam1

 

 

3 cog's are Tailbone/Upper spine/Head ..Hogan's are way more forward and left post secret ( or as people are looking at your pictures ..to the right )..Hogan moves the Tailbone forward early in the backswing ..then upper center in transition ..then the head..to release point ( your second pic is this spot) ..then creates 2nd tilt while the Tailbone releases

 

The key maybe in how Hogan gets that 2nd Tilt after being so "On top of it" so to speak...Texan Golf touched on this with the right wrist bend and flat lie angles of the clubs...maybe..or could well be his right elbow supinating all the way down from end top to impact..plus just staring at the ball from release point

 

Coming into impact you are gone already...right shoulder his hanging back and under..your hips have lost the rotational speed from the cog ( hips) being to far back and you proceed to flip the club and release way right ..

 

Imop

 

eightiron,

 

I added the next pic. I need to know what I need to do to stop the insidious flip that has inflitratrated my action while I took those 9 years off and got fat. Any recs? What can a do to get my hands ahead at impact with the back of the left wrist facing the target while also still maintaining some cup in the right wrist through the impact zone. I need to know. I am going to try to play again in 2009. It is almost day 1. I need to know.

 

Sevam1

 

Its not a flip release ..i just used that term for people to understand ..but its a rapidly closing clubface which is evident in the DTL footage..which Hogan avoided post secret even when hitting a draw

In my opinion its your right shoulder function and the fact that your shoulders /hip slants are to flat on the backswing end top compared to Hogan so you initial acceleration is from a "low right shoulder" and not forward enough..imop

 

I feel better. I thought you were accusing me of what Terrible Tommy Bolt called "Flippy Wristed Kids Stuff." Whew.

 

Sevam1

[moefan]

Hi Sevam

Thanks for responding to my question.

The reason I asked about Harleying is because I am watching a video right now that also makes a motorcycle reference. ( He used Honda ) This is my guess as to what they're talking about. Take a club and hold it at the top of your backswing. Now slowly turn your right hand exactly like you are revving up a motorcycle. Here's what I see happening.

 

1 Left wrist goes from cup to bow

2 Right wrist goes to cup

3 Both wrists **** more

4 Right elbow goes into a leading position and gets more on plane

5 Feels like dropping the club onto a little flatter plane

6 Right shoulder feels pushed back a little to help prevent coming over the top

 

Like I say I'm just guessing.

This is for anyones comment.

Moefan

[edville]

I got a great drill I made up for flipping...I call it the marsh-mellow drill!!!

 

I took and old irons and took it to my friend to weld a nail dead square in the middle of the face where I want to hit the ball. The nail sticks out about 2 inches maybe 2 1/2, I lay the big marsh-mellows down and try to thread the middle to my middle nail. If you make a little fire close to where you are doing this you can even roast them..lol Good Drill though.

 

I wrote this before I saw your last post Sevam1, I don't thing you are flipping at all if you are releasing at the ball then you need to hold the right elboy back longer by increasing right should movement out toward the ball while the hands stay low and around.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vPFf7I00zM

 

When I played baseball they called that move 'stepping into the bucket'

[Geo]

Just a reminder for those of you who were too busy to read half way through the first page, but felt impressed to add their non-contributory comments upwards of 15 times today alone:

 

Just so we are all clear.

 

1. Original Poster's do not own the topic to the point that they can have it shutdown/deleted whenever they feel like it. They certainly can make the request, and we'll consider it on a case by case basis. The original thread was shutdown because there was just too much bickering and members did not do a good job of policing themselves and getting back on topic.

 

2. This thread will be locked too if there is too much bickering and insults traded that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Yes, threads do sometimes evolve to other topics than the original, and if that's what the masses want, fine, but name calling is not a topic.

 

3. Surprisingly, when the last thread got out of hand, no one hit the violation button and reported it...until it got really out of hand a week later, then reports trickled in. If you want the thread to stay alive, then use the violation button if a few select members get out of control.

 

4. I notice we have this thread, and the Sevam buy his e-book thread going on at the same time. Choose one thread to ask sevam questions and discuss his ideas. Keep one thread going, not two...or three...or four. We really don't want to merge threads, it gets messy, but we'll do it if we must. So again, choose one thread, let the others die out.

 

5. A few members who posted many insults in the last thread got off easy, but it works both ways. While hardly any formal warnings were sent out, it was noted who seemed to have a problem maintaining the peace. These few members will not be allowed to bring down another thread. I think you know who you are, so without naming names or getting into a big debate, be warned now, you are on a very short leash.

 

6. One of these days, a condensed version of the 124 page thread without the name calling may show up at top along with our other permanent topics. It's going to take awhile to sort through. A lot of valuable information was shared/discussed, it shouldn't go without some credit. In the meantime, enjoy this thread, keep the peace, and it will stay unlocked for a long, long time.

 

Thank you for the cooperation.

[kevn357]

I keep flipping at impact now and it feels like I drop my right shoulder a ton and get underneath. I also can't keep my right heel down before impact when I try my hardest. Any ideas? I had a huge instant benefit with the move for several months but now my game is crap. Some days I get it back but I don't know why. Thanks and happy and new year everyone.

[RJC59]

the "harley move" as alluded to earlier seems to make so much sense in written word. But when I try to act it out in a golf swing, it doesnt seem to do much that i would consider beneficial. certainly doesnt seem something that would create more speed or more consistent contact... it really just replicates a look to hogan's swing seen clearest here:

 

 

 

[RJC59]

also, can somebody point me to a video that was Pre Accident but post swing change where he "woke up one mornin and had an idea" "n it worked like a charm" .. i think it was 48 or 49? i forget. (for those that say the secret was practicing hard, and thats what he meant by the secrets in the dirt, that kinda knocks that idea out of the water).

 

 

Also can someone explain to my Why his foot consistently slides about 4 inches.. what exactly is pulling his leg and why? show me the root cause.. you guys are good at this stuff.

[sevam1]

I keep flipping at impact now and it feels like I drop my right shoulder a ton and get underneath. I also can't keep my right heel down before impact when I try my hardest. Any ideas? I had a huge instant benefit with the move for several months but now my game is crap. Some days I get it back but I don't know why. Thanks and happy and new year everyone.

 

The right heel has to come up at some point. A conscious effort to keep it down while you are moving targetward is not something you should be doing. Be a little mindfull of your grip. Sometimes just making sure you ave some pressure in the left hand pink throughout is enough to firm up the hands through the ball.

 

Sevam1