Gripe...All member events are handicapped...arghh

[odshot68]

I joined a club this year and all but the club championships are handicapped. I started the year as a 1.9 but don't really have a chance to complete because they do a handicapped best ball 2-3 man teams. The winning scores are 12 under or so. Being that I get 1 a side I have no chance whatsoever. I hate this..it would be better to flight it then no handicap. So to combat this I have decided to not play as good and post higher scores on my off days. Even the couples club championship is handicapped...WTF. I feel like I need to get my handicap up to a 6 to be fair in these....

[goinglow72]

You should always post your "off days" scores as well. That whats wrong with most handicaps systems at private clubs...the members ALWAYS fudge their handicap.

[Wardell Stone]

Handicaps are the worst thing that happens to a golf club, most players have no incentive to improve. BUT, to me you don't want to go down the road of manipulating your handicap. Don't fall to the level of those who pad their handicap to win 10 bucks a week.

[BugsyinNC]

So if and when you win something at your club, how do you think you will feel looking your fellow members in the eye knowing you are a sandbagger. Do you have any self respect?

We have some sandbaggers at my club and everyone knows who they are and no one will play with them anymore. Is this really the path you want to take?

Recommend you get on the competition committee and get some of the formats changed.

[againstthegrain]

Oh please I'll trade my 14 for your 1.9 any day, any time. I put all my rounds in and then I only get 90% of my cap, wtf is that. The % reduction doesn't begin to take effect essentially till your 5 or more because of rounding. Then you don't have to play from the tips making it even easier in club events. Don't have a chance......you're kidding right?

 

"No incentive to improve" that's BS. Who cares about any tx that's handicapped or any minor little bet on weekends.....I want to play better and I'm working hard at it.

[odshot68]

You should always post your "off days" scores as well. That whats wrong with most handicaps systems at private clubs...the members ALWAYS fudge their handicap.

just to be clear..I have never lied about any scores..I won't cheat either..I'm just getting a lot of rounds in quickly...trying to hit a number or different shots into greens that I wouldn't do if gambling or in a tourney. So I'm not sandbagging just working on my game and my scores are a little higher...Is that cheating???

[Jakkels]

I agree. I am so tired of playing in medal / IPS comps, playing to HC or better (35 - 38 points IPS) and not even being close to being within the top 25. Seen some guys at my club playing of 18 - 24 HC and coming in on 79 gross. Ave winning IPS score is useally around 42 points. The Handicap system in the UK is so flaud, you only need about 3 - 5 score cards to get a handicap and only comp scores are entered for HC - no casual play scores.

 

When I was still living in South Africa we had to enter at least 10 score cards before our handicaps were calculated. Most golf clubs are linked via computer smart card systems. So every time you play a round your card gets swiped and it register that you are playing. It then forces you to enter a score after the round or else a course par is entered (if you don't enter a score within 3 days). The system also keeps your last 12 rounds played and uses the best 8 to calculate your HC every month. If you play at another course they can also see your playing history i.e. last 12 rounds played, current HC and projected HC for new month.

[Rolex]

I understand (and share) your frustration about handicaps and your situation at your club. I don't think you're going to get it changed within your lifetime, so maybe another tack is needed? You might want to consider your club rounds as practice and your truly competitive rounds are played at local and state amateur events outside of your club?

[odshot68]

I understand (and share) your frustration about handicaps and your situation at your club. I don't think you're going to get it changed within your lifetime, so maybe another tack is needed? You might want to consider your club rounds as practice and your truly competitive rounds are played at local and state amateur events outside of your club?

Its funny some players have 12 handicaps and shoot a 79...I would have to shoot a 65 to have a chance...not possible. I'm not going to change the rules at a club. So I may lay up quite a bit so I can try to hit a 15 yard cut or draw from 200 yards away. I know this will help my game in the long run..or I may try the miracle shot versus the safe shot and will be penalized more when I don't pull it off. I don't consider this cheating because I always post my actual score..but I just don't play like I would in a tournament. Is that cheating?? I don't think so.

[PGAPankey]

I'm just getting a lot of rounds in quickly...trying to hit a number or different shots into greens that I wouldn't do if gambling or in a tourney. So I'm not sandbagging just working on my game and my scores are a little higher...Is that cheating???

 

 

Well, technically you are required by the USGA to post all of your rounds regardless if you are trying shots that you wouldn’t normally. I wouldn’t necessarily say that you are cheating if you don’t but you are WELL WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS to post a score that might be higher than if you were really just trying to go low.

[odshot68]

another question to ponder..if you play at a very hard club then you play elsewhere at a much easier club but the slope is similar...do you have to post the away score (I know you should...but do you have to because its an away course thats much easier)

[tjgus25]

First off every round you play by the rules of golf should be entered for handicap!!!

If you are going out with the mindset of practicing shots and not trying to score and you enter that score yes you are sandbagging. nothing makes me more upset then members coming in complaining about how their handicap is to low but they only hand in there lowest scores. and then club championship time comes and they shoot in the 80's. not saying you are one of these just you got on a topic that annoys me alot.

rant over.

 

now as for your problem. as a 2 handicap in a better ball situation you should be an A player and be paired with a higher handicap player as well. in a well run better ball tournament you should never be giving up more then 2 or 3 shots to any other A player.

 

also side note handicaps are a not an average score it is attested to your ability to score which people often think that it is what they "average"

[odshot68]

now as for your problem. as a 2 handicap in a better ball situation you should be an A player and be paired with a higher handicap player as well. in a well run better ball tournament you should never be giving up more then 2 or 3 shots to any other A player.

 

also side note handicaps are a not an average score it is attested to your ability to score which people often think that it is what they "average"

 

there are not many low handicappers at my club...maybe 3-4 under a 6. Most players are 8-20. They try to put one A, B, and C player together..but since there are so few A players...its mostly B and C players...so I have to give up anywhere from 8-10 strokes to them.

 

BTW, I know how a handicap is made, its based on the top 10 of 20 scores then averaged and multiplied by a number (just less than 1) . I realize its based on potential but you should be able to shoot within 1-2 strokes of your handicap 75% of your time...unless your having a slump or can't handle pressure

[tjgus25]

ok now i can see your complant better now being a 2 and having to give 8 shots to another.

 

As a scratch i know it is hard to give everyone in the world shots (figure of speech not actually giving shots to everyone haha) and it is more likely for a 13 handicap to shot a 79 then it is for a 2 handicap to should a 68. but over the course of the year if you played a 12 handicap everytime out you would beat him 2 out of 3 times so the system isnt all that bad.

[odshot68]

ok now i can see your grip better now being a 2 and having to give 8 shots to another.

 

As a scratch i know it is hard to give everyone in the world shots (figure of speech not actually giving shots to everyone haha) and it is more likely for a 13 handicap to shot a 79 then it is for a 2 handicap to should a 68. but over the course of the year if you played a 12 handicap everytime out you would beat him 2 out of 3 times so the system isnt all that bad.

I agree, in a heads up match its fine..but the trouble is when they become a 3-4 man team best ball and you are not getting any strokes...you have no chance whatsoever. You actually hinder your own team because you can't really help them. Sorry to gripe.....

[PGAPankey]

another question to ponder..if you play at a very hard club then you play elsewhere at a much easier club but the slope is similar...do you have to post the away score (I know you should...but do you have to because its an away course thats much easier)

 

 

 

As per USGA guidelines you have to post your scores unless A. You play less than 13 holes. B. If you play in a competition that limits the number of clubs used. C. Play and 18 hole course less than 3000 yds. D. When a majority of hole aren't played under USGA rules. E. The course you are playing is in an "Inactive Season". These are the only times when you do not post your scores.

 

Sandbagging is an epidemic. It will always go on because there are always going to be people who would rather win a $2 Nassau than be honest. With that said, I think there is a difference between sandbagging and forgetting to post a score every now and then. Imo, a sandbagger is someone who does not post scores or posts higher scores with the intent of manipulating there handicap. Now im not advocating not posting scores but I think there is a difference between a 10 hcp who forgets to post an 82 and a 10 who doesn’t post a 73 because it will lower his hcp.

[stage1350]

When I belonged to a club, most every event had a flight for gross and net scores. The low gross was always the top prize.

 

See if you can institute something similar at your club. It will bring out more low HC players in the tournament.

[odshot68]

When I belonged to a club, most every event had a flight for gross and net scores. The low gross was always the top prize.

 

See if you can institute something similar at your club. It will bring out more low HC players in the tournament.

I think thats a great idea..My concern is that there are very few low handicaps out there..so a lot of the members would complain about it. From my point of view, if I played and lost to a better player...it would motivate me to get better so I could beat him. I think a gross and a net would be the perfect solution. In golf, we shouldn't be penalized for getting better. We have paid our dues and have hit countless balls, chips, and putts to get where we are at. I have been on the other side of things...it takes hard work and time.

[teejaywhy]

When I belonged to a club, most every event had a flight for gross and net scores. The low gross was always the top prize.

 

See if you can institute something similar at your club. It will bring out more low HC players in the tournament.

I think thats a great idea..My concern is that there are very few low handicaps out there..so a lot of the members would complain about it. From my point of view, if I played and lost to a better player...it would motivate me to get better so I could beat him. I think a gross and a net would be the perfect solution. In golf, we shouldn't be penalized for getting better. We have paid our dues and have hit countless balls, chips, and putts to get where we are at. I have been on the other side of things...it takes hard work and time.

 

Volunteer for the competition committee and work it from the inside. You have to play it politically, can't just barge in as the new guy and demand change. But change comes from new people with new ideas. Lobby the other members one by one and get them to see things from your point of view. Most of the clubs I've played in have gross and net games. If you can shoot the low gross and win the club championship, that would have to be far more satisfying than winning some net team best ball.

 

For sure, declaring an intention to inflate your handicap is the wrong way to approach it.

[ballshagger]

Skill over handicap any day of the week.

[TheF5key]

While I think I understand where this is coming from, from a mid-capper's perspective I love to have a near-scratch A player on my team in a best ball competition. Surely if you're a 1.9 you're capable of making some birdies and tough pars and contributing to the team's success. No, you're not the guy making 5 for net 3, but if you make a routine par on the par 3s where your teammates aren't getting a stroke you *are* helping.

 

Any format is going to be imperfect. Is an 8 or 12 cap going to want to play you straight up gross? Probably not any more than you want to play team best ball with strokes. You're not always going to win. You're not always going to be competitive - especially in a team game. But won't you feel better if you're always trying to play your best?

 

I think the advice about trying to tweak the events and working from the inside is spot on. Low gross/low net. See if you can have some individual stroke play events flighted by handicap and played gross. We have a match play event where one bracket is gross, one is handicapped. Shoot for more choices rather than trying to force us hacks to play your game and everybody will have more fun.

[SpartyOn1982]

I was playing in our club championship a couple years back and it was a two day event flighted after the 1st day so that people were paired with those in the same scoring category in day two. It was a handicapped based scoring and I was shooting at an 8 hdcp at the time. Well day two comes and I am paired with a 11 year old kid! Why you ask? Because I had shot pretty well on day 1 and the apparently the kid shot OK (somewhere in the high 90's or low 100's) and had a 40-50 handicap! No joke! I was a little irritated to say the least.

They should have had a flight for children because there was quite a few of them (4 to 5 I believe)

I haven't been a member since that ordeal, and from what I hear they still do that same stuff to this day.

[robs4golf]

I joined a club this year and all but the club championships are handicapped. I started the year as a 1.9 but don't really have a chance to complete because they do a handicapped best ball 2-3 man teams. The winning scores are 12 under or so. Being that I get 1 a side I have no chance whatsoever. I hate this..it would be better to flight it then no handicap. So to combat this I have decided to not play as good and post higher scores on my off days. Even the couples club championship is handicapped...WTF. I feel like I need to get my handicap up to a 6 to be fair in these....

 

Um......I don't understand what you're complaining about - because the majority of tournaments, club or otherwise, are aimed at the majority of golfers (i.e. lesser-skilled players, those that have higher handicaps). Without the higher-cappers there would be NO tournaments!!!

 

And now you're considering SANDBAGGING ??????

[odshot68]

I joined a club this year and all but the club championships are handicapped. I started the year as a 1.9 but don't really have a chance to complete because they do a handicapped best ball 2-3 man teams. The winning scores are 12 under or so. Being that I get 1 a side I have no chance whatsoever. I hate this..it would be better to flight it then no handicap. So to combat this I have decided to not play as good and post higher scores on my off days. Even the couples club championship is handicapped...WTF. I feel like I need to get my handicap up to a 6 to be fair in these....

 

Um......I don't understand what you're complaining about - because the majority of tournaments, club or otherwise, are aimed at the majority of golfers (i.e. lesser-skilled players, those that have higher handicaps). Without the higher-cappers there would be NO tournaments!!!

 

And now you're considering SANDBAGGING ??????

What motivates a higher handicap to get better? Sick of losing... I haven't cheated nor can I be accused of it. I think net and gross scores is the only answer.

[odshot68]

I was playing in our club championship a couple years back and it was a two day event flighted after the 1st day so that people were paired with those in the same scoring category in day two. It was a handicapped based scoring and I was shooting at an 8 hdcp at the time. Well day two comes and I am paired with a 11 year old kid! Why you ask? Because I had shot pretty well on day 1 and the apparently the kid shot OK (somewhere in the high 90's or low 100's) and had a 40-50 handicap! No joke! I was a little irritated to say the least.

They should have had a flight for children because there was quite a few of them (4 to 5 I believe)

I haven't been a member since that ordeal, and from what I hear they still do that same stuff to this day.

Another crappy way to run a golf tournament...especially a club championship. So STATE!!! I don't blame you for not going back..you in lansing?

[SpartyOn1982]

I was playing in our club championship a couple years back and it was a two day event flighted after the 1st day so that people were paired with those in the same scoring category in day two. It was a handicapped based scoring and I was shooting at an 8 hdcp at the time. Well day two comes and I am paired with a 11 year old kid! Why you ask? Because I had shot pretty well on day 1 and the apparently the kid shot OK (somewhere in the high 90's or low 100's) and had a 40-50 handicap! No joke! I was a little irritated to say the least.

They should have had a flight for children because there was quite a few of them (4 to 5 I believe)

I haven't been a member since that ordeal, and from what I hear they still do that same stuff to this day.

Another crappy way to run a golf tournament...especially a club championship. So STATE!!! I don't blame you for not going back..you in lansing?

 

Yes sir, from a small town but now live in the Lansing area.

[robs4golf]

What motivates a higher handicap to get better? Sick of losing... I haven't cheated nor can I be accused of it.

 

 

To an extent you have when you said - "I know this will help my game in the long run..or I may try the miracle shot versus the safe shot and will be penalized more when I don't pull it off. I don't consider this cheating because I always post my actual score..but I just don't play like I would in a tournament. Is that cheating?? I don't think so."

 

The whole concept of having a handicap is that it allows a lesser player to compete head-to-head with better players. Would you think it fair if you had to play "gross" against Tiger???

 

 

As I suggested earlier - keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of "club" tournaments are aimed at the overwhelming majority of golfers (not you). And thus you find yourself in a very small group of said membership, and having tournaments aimed toward your idea of what you would like would leave you with very few of your fellow members showing up.

 

Honestly, what you're proposing is what USED to be done back in the good old days - but then again back in those days the only tourney used to be the annual club championships, a tourney won by the better golfer(s) at clubs. The "other" tournaments were designed (and have become vogue) with the other lesser-skilled players in mind, because they NEVER (then or now) have a chance competing against better players head-to-head.

 

How do you think someone like myself feels. As a 50-something year old 6-'cap I don't stand a chance against the young bucks with the flat bellies and strong backs, yet I get my clock cleaned in the handicap events too because I get next to nothing and give up a shot a hole to some of my hack buddies.

 

 

Just the way it is.....

[RichB]

just to be clear..I have never lied about any scores..I won't cheat either..I'm just getting a lot of rounds in quickly...trying to hit a number or different shots into greens that I wouldn't do if gambling or in a tourney. So I'm not sandbagging just working on my game and my scores are a little higher...Is that cheating???

 

All rounds played under the rules of golf must be posted.

I know that you've heard this over and over.

But, if you are truly working on shots you would not normally play, in an effort to improve

your game...then do that. Drop extra balls, change your lie (you don't have to improve it)...

try anything and everything, if it is an effort to improve. Decide you are going to do this

BEFORE you tee off on your first hole. This is now PRACTICE, on a course.

This is NOT a score that gets posted. You cannot change your mind...if you decide to play the first

straight, just to get out of sight of the clubhouse before dropping balls, and you eagle the 1st.

It's a PRACTICE session, not a round of golf. Same thing goes for declaring a practice session

when in the middle of a garbage round...nope, too late...it's a post-able round.

Some may disagree, but I just don't think every time you're on a golf course has to be

for a *stipulated round of golf*.

 

If you do what it seems to me you are doing, just trying to execute low percentage shots

during your round...that's golf. That's dumb golf. That's MY game. :) (but I do it in tourneys, too :russian_roulette: )

But those scores count, and those scores WILL be higher than your norm.

Those rounds will properly label you a sandbagger.

[hef63303]

You could have a scratch tournament and have 3 people play in it. When you join a club, you have to expect a lot of handicap tournaments because that is what increases participation.

[manicgolf]

In my opinion, sandbagging has become so rampant over the past 10 years, that it is placing serious jeopardy to the whole system.

For the most part, I refuse to play club competions anymore because of the net prize structure. It has encouraged the worst in people to emerge, and tournament entries are down at most clubs I know of.

The crux of the matter (imo) is that regular or routine scores are no longer entered by a "committee" from signed scorecards. Therefore there is no verification of who is scoring what because people enter their own scores into a computer.

Then again, a club handicap committee without a spine is the best enabler.

It is really crappy to enter a dozen competions a year for a dozen years, shoot within 1 or 2 shots of handicap, (over or under), and lose everyone of them by anywhere from 6 to 12 shots each time.

12 and 14 handicappers can not consistently shoot net 62 - 66. The USGA handicap committee has recognized this and has produced a paper on the odds of people with a legitimate handicap shooting 1, 2, 3, or 4 strokes under. At 4, odds are better of winning a lottery.

 

So now, for the most part, ( the odd team play competion excepted) I just play golf for excersise and the pleasure of being out in nature. It makes me :)