Rules Interpreting - Need Help

amtrac24 · June 15, 2009

Hey All,

Last round we got into a few issues where everyone in my group had a different opinion on the ruling.

This is more for handicap rounds rather then a ruling in a tournament.

1. On some of the county courses (muni's) there are sections where there is no grass. Just plain dirt. Basically it would be like hitting your ball from the home plate area in baseball. Because this problem only exists on bad / cheap courses does the player get relief if his ball is on a dirt patch? Can you give him the "ground under repair" ruling?

There is no ground under repair markings. Does the player does get penalized bc the course is mis managed and can't grow grass in certain spots.

2. Par 3 - Ball gets hit over the green to the rough. Rain from the night before has soaked the rough. When you walk to your ball the ground squushes around. If you take a divot you will basically get soaked and full of mud. Ball is not plugged though. The ball's lie is fine. Does a player get relief to a section of the rough that is not flooded. (Ground was soaked and almost flooded as opposed to just wet)

3. How does everyone play the lost ball issue. For us that don't have caddies, there have been times where you take an iron and hit it x amount of yards into the rough. You never are able to find your ball when you walk up.

The correct ruling is you walk back to where you hit your ball and rehit with a stroke penalty. Obviously this isnt the PGA tour and you can't do that unless no one is behind you. Does everyone just drop from where you think the ball landed and give your self a stroke penalty? (or 2)

Thanks for your help in advance guys.

klaymon · June 15, 2009

1) Unless it is specifically marked as Ground Under Repair, you have to suck it up and hit it.

2) No relief.

3) Hit a provisional before you go look for your first shot.

OpusX20 · June 16, 2009

Hey All,

Last round we got into a few issues where everyone in my group had a different opinion on the ruling.
This is more for handicap rounds rather then a ruling in a tournament.

1. On some of the county courses (muni's) there are sections where there is no grass. Just plain dirt. Basically it would be like hitting your ball from the home plate area in baseball. Because this problem only exists on bad / cheap courses does the player get relief if his ball is on a dirt patch? Can you give him the "ground under repair" ruling?
There is no ground under repair markings. Does the player does get penalized bc the course is mis managed and can't grow grass in certain spots.

2. Par 3 - Ball gets hit over the green to the rough. Rain from the night before has soaked the rough. When you walk to your ball the ground squushes around. If you take a divot you will basically get soaked and full of mud. Ball is not plugged though. The ball's lie is fine. Does a player get relief to a section of the rough that is not flooded. (Ground was soaked and almost flooded as opposed to just wet)

3. How does everyone play the lost ball issue. For us that don't have caddies, there have been times where you take an iron and hit it x amount of yards into the rough. You never are able to find your ball when you walk up.
The correct ruling is you walk back to where you hit your ball and rehit with a stroke penalty. Obviously this isnt the PGA tour and you can't do that unless no one is behind you. Does everyone just drop from where you think the ball landed and give your self a stroke penalty? (or 2)

Thanks for your help in advance guys.

Number 1 - Play it as it lies, unless it is marked as Ground Under. (I actually love hitting off those lies. It's very easy to work the ball and make solid contact.)

Number 2 - Play it as it lies, unless there is actually visible water around your ball or feet. If there is casual water, you get 1 club length from your nearest point of relief with no penalty.

Number 3 - If you think your first ball might be lost, you may play a provisional ball before you leave the teeing area. If you find your first one you play it, if you don't you play the provisional. Otherwise, if you get up there and it's lost, yes you have to go back to re-tee. Having said that, when I'm playing a casual round I would never walk back to the tee. It takes too long and slows down play.

amtrac24 · June 16, 2009

Thanks for ur help guys

Double Gee · June 16, 2009

1) must be marked as GUR - however, check the local rules before your play and they may have that particular type of ground shown as a drop without it being marked

2) if water is visible when your weight is applied, then you take a free drop from the nearest point of 'dryness' not nearer the hole, then within a one club length drop

3) Provisional from the tee ... but if it is a friendly 4 ball with friends, why not make a rule amongst yourselves that you can drop with a penalty shot applied. We do tha at our club in friendly games to avoid slow play.

teejaywhy · June 16, 2009

#2 and #3 are clearly defined in the rules.

As to #1 - This is golf. It is a game with good breaks and bad breaks. It is played outdoors in a variety of terrain and conditions. There is no expectation of a perfect lie everytime you hit the ball. Learn to hit shots from bad lies and it will make you a better golfer.

There is a basic principle that can be applied whenever in doubt about the rules. "Play the ball as it lies and play the course as you find it."

amtrac24 · June 21, 2009

#2 issue. Just watching the US open. They were interviewing Jacobson??? They showed his foot in one of the fairways where water would come up as soon as he put his foot down. The person interviewing him asked what would be the ruling. He said the player would get full relief....

Is he wrong?

Mainlinegolfer · June 21, 2009

It's all in the USGA Rules of Golf: http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14253

b. Relief

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an abnormal ground condition as follows:

(i)Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the condition and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

Abnormal Ground Conditions

An "abnormal ground condition" is any casual water, ground under repair or hole, cast or runway on the course made by a burrowing animal, a reptile or a bird.

Casual Water

"Casual water" is any temporary accumulation of water on the course that is not in a water hazard and is visible before or after the player takes his stance. Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player. Manufactured ice is an obstruction. Dew and frost are not casual water.

A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water.

limpwrist · June 24, 2009

#2 issue. Just watching the US open. They were interviewing Jacobson??? They showed his foot in one of the fairways where water would come up as soon as he put his foot down. The person interviewing him asked what would be the ruling. He said the player would get full relief....

Is he wrong?

Mainlinegolfer quoted the applicable rule, but in laymen's terms, no, he is not wrong. If water is visible after the player takes his stance (i.e. water that rises up under the weight of the player) is considered casual water (abnormal ground condition) that interferes with the player's stance. Thus he is afforded relief without penalty.

Just to clarify for the OP as well, the player would get relief if water is visible when the player took his stance to hit the shot in scenario two despite the fact that he was in the rough. Also, mud is not casual water. The only place you can't get relief from casual water is in a water hazard, in which case it would obviously not be casual water.

mihi4 · July 1, 2009

3) Provisional from the tee ... but if it is a friendly 4 ball with friends, why not make a rule amongst yourselves that you can drop with a penalty shot applied. We do tha at our club in friendly games to avoid slow play.

I would take at least 2 penalty strokes, since you'll make at least your 3rd stroke near your actual position, if you go back and hit the ball with stroke and distance.

greetings

michi