Hogan's hips

[dap]

Here is the study I am talking about.It was done using Japanese tour players and high handicappers to establish the difference in weight shift between good and poor players.

The results will surprise some people.

http://www.asbweb.org/conferences/2003/pdfs/136.pdf

[dap]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285146514' post='2708251']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1285143211' post='2708240']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285140165' post='2708218']
Dariusz,
Here is a picture of Norman on these scales, and I believe this shows that it is not posed. And it clearly shows more weight on the right at impact, in fact 66% and he had 95% on the right at the top of the backswing.
I think this article is from the 80's by the look of it.
As I have said before the science is a little beyond me, but I would have thought dynamic weight with regard the swing would only be effective for split seconds.
Anyway an interesting article, which did tend to change my opinion quite a bit on what was actually happening in the swing.
As I have said, I have doubts about the whole principle of left pivot points. Its sometimes useful to explore and question current theory as I am sure you have.
[/quote]


I wouldn't get to into those findings being accurate , however Greg Norman was prone to being way more inside and underneath ( in to out) than the man this forum is about
[/quote]


Yes, I realise that Norman's swing was different, and I was just trying to illustrate to Dariusz that the measurements were not posed.
Mind you Norman was regarded as by far the best driver of his era, and probably would compare very favourably to the statistics today.
IMO, nowadays the courses have been adapted to the big business of the manufacturers to sell more equipment. But thats another subject.

But anyway, back to dynamic weight shift.
The article used, indicates that high speed photography were used. I guess if there were dynamic weights present they would show up as bounces on analogue scales quite well. There was no mention of this that I can remember. Kostis did talk about the fact that he thought that there were more weight going to the left side of the spine rather than foot measurements. I am not disagreeing with that theory, but am not sure.

Yes I understand that with dynamic weight there will be a fractional lag when comparing to static weight.
Perhaps somebody could explain how much, and relate this to these statistics so that I can make a more informed decision as to what is actually happening.

The problem we will have with regard comparing with Hogan, as we do not, and I guess will not ever have dynamic or static weight statistics for him.

By the way this particular article is a remake of weight shift testing from the swings in 1962, including Gardner Dickinson, where there was even less weight on the left through impact than 1989.
[/quote]
It takes about 0.25 seconds or thereabouts to reach impact from the top.It would take at least that amount of time before the analogue scales could react.

One thing is for certain.There is no way playing pros will have 60% or more of their weight on the right foot at impact.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285154767' post='2708292']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285146514' post='2708251']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1285143211' post='2708240']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285140165' post='2708218']
Dariusz,
Here is a picture of Norman on these scales, and I believe this shows that it is not posed. And it clearly shows more weight on the right at impact, in fact 66% and he had 95% on the right at the top of the backswing.
I think this article is from the 80's by the look of it.
As I have said before the science is a little beyond me, but I would have thought dynamic weight with regard the swing would only be effective for split seconds.
Anyway an interesting article, which did tend to change my opinion quite a bit on what was actually happening in the swing.
As I have said, I have doubts about the whole principle of left pivot points. Its sometimes useful to explore and question current theory as I am sure you have.
[/quote]


I wouldn't get to into those findings being accurate , however Greg Norman was prone to being way more inside and underneath ( in to out) than the man this forum is about
[/quote]


Yes, I realise that Norman's swing was different, and I was just trying to illustrate to Dariusz that the measurements were not posed.
Mind you Norman was regarded as by far the best driver of his era, and probably would compare very favourably to the statistics today.
IMO, nowadays the courses have been adapted to the big business of the manufacturers to sell more equipment. But thats another subject.

But anyway, back to dynamic weight shift.
The article used, indicates that high speed photography were used. I guess if there were dynamic weights present they would show up as bounces on analogue scales quite well. There was no mention of this that I can remember. Kostis did talk about the fact that he thought that there were more weight going to the left side of the spine rather than foot measurements. I am not disagreeing with that theory, but am not sure.

Yes I understand that with dynamic weight there will be a fractional lag when comparing to static weight.
Perhaps somebody could explain how much, and relate this to these statistics so that I can make a more informed decision as to what is actually happening.

The problem we will have with regard comparing with Hogan, as we do not, and I guess will not ever have dynamic or static weight statistics for him.

By the way this particular article is a remake of weight shift testing from the swings in 1962, including Gardner Dickinson, where there was even less weight on the left through impact than 1989.
[/quote]
It takes about 0.25 seconds or thereabouts to reach impact from the top.It would take at least that amount of time before the analogue scales could react.

One thing is for certain.There is no way playing pros will have 60% or more of their weight on the right foot at impact.
[/quote]

And I would not question that the weight clearly moves almost entirely onto the left foot. I think all studies show this, but its the speed of shift that is in question. Many would say the weight shift to the left is pretty much complete by mid downswing, then rotation occurs. I just have my doubts, even with Hogan.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285153983' post='2708287']
Here is the study I am talking about.It was done using Japanese tour players and high handicappers to establish the difference in weight shift between good and poor players.

The results will surprise some people.

[url="http://www.asbweb.org/conferences/2003/pdfs/136.pdf"]http://www.asbweb.or...03/pdfs/136.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

he weight transfer pattern during the golf swing was measured using a custom designed portable [b]force platform[/b] (Kyowa-Dengyo, Tokyo, Japan). This platform system consisted of two separate footplates synchronized with a video camcorder, by which vertical ground reaction force (VGRF) was measured for each force plate. The VGRF data was collected at 1000Hz, while the associated video data was recorded at[b] 30 fields per second.[/b] The camcorder was positioned perpendicular to the subject’s frontal plane of motion and was used to identify the specific events during the swing.




Small scientist inside of me finds some "not so good" points of that research.




Force is not weight!

One can add pressure on the plate even without shifting weight. That is IMO one big reason for whole myth of weight shift starting the dsw.




30 fps is unfortunately not enough to point out anything about the swing.




We have here 170fps cameras and it takes 2-3 frames to come from the waist high (club head) to impact. So in timescale its about 0,015 seconds. And if reading from video, it seems clearly that all good players are mainly on right side on that waist high position. With that 30fps video club head is moving almost one meter between the frames.




Anyway I think weight distribution is totally wrong term when trying to find actions in golf swing. Pressure is much more relevant ant that can be measured with nowadays technology. Unfortunately I don't got that kind of possibility for the moment.

[Dariusz J.]

Gents, again, dynamic weight is something different than a static one. While it is quite probable that the static weight numbers can even favour rear side (say, if we freeze momentarily a golfer at impact (getting rid of his dynamism) he would prolly fall onto his rear side.
However, as Dap said, there is no possibility that the dynamic weight numbers do not favour the lead foot [b]considerably[/b] when talking about both downswing as well as the impact zone. I do not of a swing methodology that would not suggest (re)planting the lead foot, crushing the can, etc. Unless...we measure these players who jump and lift their lead foot at the very moment of impact as a result of kinetics - it may appear in an extreme case of a measurement that there is 0% of weight on the lead foot...LOL.

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1285156030' post='2708306']
Force is not weight!
[/quote]

No. Weight is exactly a force. Mass x gravity. When utilizing the kinetic energy produced by the body during the golf swing the weight either can increase or decrease depending on if the energy helps the gravity or diminish its impact. Only the mass is stable.

Cheers

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285157436' post='2708320']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1285156030' post='2708306']
Force is not weight!
[/quote]

No. Weight is exactly a force. Mass x gravity. When utilizing the kinetic energy produced by the body during the golf swing the weight either can increase or decrease depending on if the energy helps the gravity or diminish its impact. Only the mass is stable.

Cheers
[/quote]

Maybe I put it out badly. What I meant that You can create force agains the plate without moving or shifting Your weight. Just straighten Your left knee and there is force against the plate/ ground even that You stay on same position. Actually in many cases Your [s]weight[/s] mass goes to the right when You push down with the left.

So when measuring those we should be talking about pressure, because it tells more about muscular action. Maybe... there is still possibility to go wrong.

edit: made a small correction

[Matt1960]

I would fully accept that you can fool an analogue weighing scales by putting pressure on one or both pads. However, what baffles me is for how long the human body can keep this dynamic force going into the pads. Surely there must be a time element.
If this is so, then why did the results that I showed from1989 not show this on anybody. There did not seem to be any discrepancy in the total weight of the player to the left and right foot at any time in the swing. Why?

[dap]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1285156030' post='2708306']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285153983' post='2708287']
Here is the study I am talking about.It was done using Japanese tour players and high handicappers to establish the difference in weight shift between good and poor players.

The results will surprise some people.

[url="http://www.asbweb.org/conferences/2003/pdfs/136.pdf"]http://www.asbweb.or...03/pdfs/136.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

he weight transfer pattern during the golf swing was measured using a custom designed portable [b]force platform[/b] (Kyowa-Dengyo, Tokyo, Japan). This platform system consisted of two separate footplates synchronized with a video camcorder, by which vertical ground reaction force (VGRF) was measured for each force plate. The VGRF data was collected at 1000Hz, while the associated video data was recorded at[b] 30 fields per second.[/b] The camcorder was positioned perpendicular to the subject’s frontal plane of motion and was used to identify the specific events during the swing.




Small scientist inside of me finds some "not so good" points of that research.




Force is not weight!

One can add pressure on the plate even without shifting weight. That is IMO one big reason for whole myth of weight shift starting the dsw.




30 fps is unfortunately not enough to point out anything about the swing.




We have here 170fps cameras and it takes 2-3 frames to come from the waist high (club head) to impact. So in timescale its about 0,015 seconds. And if reading from video, it seems clearly that all good players are mainly on right side on that waist high position. With that 30fps video club head is moving almost one meter between the frames.




Anyway I think weight distribution is totally wrong term when trying to find actions in golf swing. Pressure is much more relevant ant that can be measured with nowadays technology. Unfortunately I don't got that kind of possibility for the moment.
[/quote]

That study of course is not perfect.They could have used a larger sample of golfers as well but I am sure you will admit it is far more accurate than using 2 analogue mechanical scales.I think the results would be far closer to the truth in the study I posted.

[dap]

Also there was another test that came to the same conclusion.At impact,the weight(force,loading or whatever you want to call it) showed around 75% of weight on the lead foot.

I think the actual weight figure is irrelevant.We just want the percentage.No point or need to make it more complicated than that just to learn how to swing a club.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285164676' post='2708472']
Also there was another test that came to the same conclusion.At impact,the weight(force,loading or whatever you want to call it) showed around 75% of weight on the lead foot.

I think the actual weight figure is irrelevant.We just want the percentage.No point or need to make it more complicated than that just to learn how to swing a club.
[/quote]


For me that is relevant in many cases.

I've noticed that many people who has been told to shift their weight to the left has taken it totally wrong. They really move their body to the left. If we teachers understand the correct happenings there, we could use better terms and put it out differently. Like I said before, pushing down with the left leg, puts more pressure on the plate and that shows the weight shift. That's not correct. People can move the mass of the body to the right and still get more pressure under left foot.

For better players I see footwork really important and hard to learn. It's really not only right and left, but many pressure points under feet and they change a lot during the swing. That's important to understand, because one uses totally different muscles with different pressure points. After transition the pressure of the rear foot moves from heel toward the big toe and the right foot rolls to that way and keeps up the possibility to strain.

[Matt1960]

But, if we go back a while, when I was talking about pivot points. How would this relate to getting to the so called left pivot point. There seemed to be talk of getting the weight left so that the left hip had stability to be able rotate around. The talk was that the shift had to happen by mid downswing.
It was this that decided me to question weight distribution.
I am getting quite confused about the whole thing now.

[chris_golf]

Pressure... Weight... I can´t believe that there are no better studies...

I can´t find it now - but I was reading a study where the golfer had at impact 400 pounds pressure under his left foot for 0,05 seconds...
This would be the double of his body weight and this sounds realistic to propel a golfball 300 yards....

But his weight was where??? or the pressure was where???
[attachment=659764:golf-weight.jpg]

This is one of my favourite pictures of this golfer - sure a weightscale would messure 90 percent on his right foot - but....
[attachment=659766:jackkstack.jpg]

maybe the pressure is right and his weight is left???

Hopefully someone can enlighten me, too.

Chris

[dap]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1285170837' post='2708660']
Pressure... Weight... I can´t believe that there are no better studies...

I can´t find it now - but I was reading a study where the golfer had at impact 400 pounds pressure under his left foot for 0,05 seconds...
This would be the double of his body weight and this sounds realistic to propel a golfball 300 yards....

But his weight was where??? or the pressure was where???
[attachment=659764:golf-weight.jpg]

This is one of my favourite pictures of this golfer - sure a weightscale would messure 90 percent on his right foot - but....
[attachment=659766:jackkstack.jpg]

maybe the pressure is right and his weight is left???

Hopefully someone can enlighten me, too.

Chris
[/quote]
I have also read that there was a biomechanic study on the Japanese pro golfer Hidemichi Tanaka to find out how he could generate his high clubhead speed in spite of his small stature.It found that he generated ground reaction forces equal to 184% of his body weight.

Now weight is simply mass times gravity.This force will not change unless we go to the moon.During the swing we add ground reaction forces on top of the force of our weight.I am assuming(I could be wrong) that when they do those weight shift studies,ground reaction forces are ignored or cancelled out to arrive at the real weight shift.

[Matt1960]

And I can quite see that it is possible to put pressure through one or both feet that will be way in excess of the weight of the person.
I am not concerned with this at the moment. What I dont understand is for how long can a person swinging a golf club keep the excess pressure on. If it is a fraction of a second (maybe at impact) then that does not explain the body motion and more gradual weight shift during the downswing.
In fact, if you wanted to maximise the dynamic pressure of the left foot at impact, would you not want to keep all your weight away from it until impact?

[chris_golf]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285179079' post='2708867']
And I can quite see that it is possible to put pressure through one or both feet that will be way in excess of the weight of the person.
I am not concerned with this at the moment. What I dont understand is for how long can a person swinging a golf club keep the excess pressure on. If it is a fraction of a second (maybe at impact) then that does not explain the body motion and more gradual weight shift during the downswing.
[b]In fact, if you wanted to maximise the dynamic pressure of the left foot at impact, would you not want to keep all your weight away from it until impact?[/b]
[/quote]

You would want most of the weight before impact left to exceed it at impact...

I think if you want to excess your weight you would need to expand your spine (pelvis release...lol-tailbone release) to create pressure downwards and at the
same moment straigten somehow your knees with upward pressure (compressing up and down) - like in a jump. To aply this in golf you would need a new side tilt to the right to maintain your high...
The only system who discribes this procedure are the s+t guys, other systems never mention this move.
Tiger did it with his squad move downwards before impact and then he jumps up ...


There are PGA Pros who straighten both knees totally at impact to use groundforces and if you look at 10 year old kids who are hitting it 220 yards you would observe
that they literally jump up at impact intentionally....

How this movements propel the Hips and pelvis, I can just imagine...

How Mr. Hogan did it, I don´t know but for sure he used groundforces:
[attachment=659826:Mr. Hogan after impact.jpg]

Chris

P.S. I read somewhere that good S+T players have at the top of there backswing visually 80 percent left, but pressure plates atested that they had
60 -70 % pressure on the right foot - hmmm maybe they have to explain this more in detail to us.

[dap]

When Hidemichi Tanaka was tested,he had 184% of his body weight at impact.Seventy seven percent of that was on the left foot.

When they test using pressure plates,the weight of the player and ground reaction forces are both taken into account.

This result is consistent with other studies showing around 75% of the total force is on the lead foot at impact.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1285181976' post='2708934']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285179079' post='2708867']
And I can quite see that it is possible to put pressure through one or both feet that will be way in excess of the weight of the person.
I am not concerned with this at the moment. What I dont understand is for how long can a person swinging a golf club keep the excess pressure on. If it is a fraction of a second (maybe at impact) then that does not explain the body motion and more gradual weight shift during the downswing.
[b]In fact, if you wanted to maximise the dynamic pressure of the left foot at impact, would you not want to keep all your weight away from it until impact?[/b]
[/quote]

You would want most of the weight before impact left to exceed it at impact...


[/quote]


I have been thinking about this, and am not sure.
If I stood on some bathroom scales on my left leg only. Then suddenly tried to increase the dynamic weight further by pushing up with the muscles in the leg, would this be greater or lesser than if I were not on the scales at all then jumped on the scales with my left leg?
Is this analogy different to what we are trying to achieve?
If the weight were on the left leg very early in the downswing, would this inhibit the rotation of the hips or increase it?

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285184024' post='2708994']I have been thinking about this, and am not sure.
If I stood on some bathroom scales on my left leg only. Then suddenly tried to increase the dynamic weight further by pushing up with the muscles in the leg, would this be greater or lesser than if I were not on the scales at all then jumped on the scales with my left leg?
Is this analogy different to what we are trying to achieve?
If the weight were on the left leg very early in the downswing, would this inhibit the rotation of the hips or increase it?
[/quote]

Matt, I believe you will be interested in reading this:

[attachment=659908:Jumping on a scale.pdf]

The example of jumping up vertically, however, is different than our golf reality because during the golf swing motion there is a strong inclination to move targetwise (there always is a linear part in the swing) hence the dynamic weight must go per se closer to the lead foot creating axis of downswing rotation near the lead hip. BTW, the sooner the dynamic weight goes to the lead side and establishes there = the sooner the axis is created = the sooner the pure rotation phase can start = the better for consistency and repeatability for obvious reasons.

Cheers

[dap]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285190959' post='2709152']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285184024' post='2708994']I have been thinking about this, and am not sure.
If I stood on some bathroom scales on my left leg only. Then suddenly tried to increase the dynamic weight further by pushing up with the muscles in the leg, would this be greater or lesser than if I were not on the scales at all then jumped on the scales with my left leg?
Is this analogy different to what we are trying to achieve?
If the weight were on the left leg very early in the downswing, would this inhibit the rotation of the hips or increase it?
[/quote]

Matt, I believe you will be interested in reading this:

[attachment=659908:Jumping on a scale.pdf]

The example of jumping up vertically, however, is different than our golf reality because during the golf swing motion there is a strong inclination to move targetwise (there always is a linear part in the swing) hence the dynamic weight must go per se closer to the lead foot creating axis of downswing rotation near the lead hip. BTW, the sooner the dynamic weight goes to the lead side and establishes there = the sooner the axis is created = the sooner the pure rotation phase can start = the better for consistency and repeatability for obvious reasons.

Cheers
[/quote]
The biomechanic study on Tanaka showed that during the swing,his body weight varied from 52% to 184%....yes,he was 52% of his bodyweight halfway into his DOWNSWING.At this point the ratio was roughly 50/50 on each foot.

This study showed that weight transfer to the lead foot is very late and very violent.Tanaka is 5'6" and weigh 130lbs but is a very long hitter.

I also think more advanced studies using force plates will blow up a few SnT principals.This idea of keeping weight on the left foot during the swing might be a fallacy even though it may look like it to the naked eye.The force plates won't lie though.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285190959' post='2709152']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285184024' post='2708994']I have been thinking about this, and am not sure.
If I stood on some bathroom scales on my left leg only. Then suddenly tried to increase the dynamic weight further by pushing up with the muscles in the leg, would this be greater or lesser than if I were not on the scales at all then jumped on the scales with my left leg?
Is this analogy different to what we are trying to achieve?
If the weight were on the left leg very early in the downswing, would this inhibit the rotation of the hips or increase it?
[/quote]

Matt, I believe you will be interested in reading this:

[attachment=659908:Jumping on a scale.pdf]

The example of jumping up vertically, however, is different than our golf reality because during the golf swing motion there is a strong inclination to move targetwise (there always is a linear part in the swing) hence the dynamic weight must go per se closer to the lead foot creating axis of downswing rotation near the lead hip. BTW, the sooner the dynamic weight goes to the lead side and establishes there = the sooner the axis is created = the sooner the pure rotation phase can start = the better for consistency and repeatability for obvious reasons.

Cheers
[/quote]

Dariusz,
Thank you for the article, which I do understand a little.
But what I find confusing is this axis business. We have all been told for many years by the golfing world that the swing has an axis of right hip and left hip and I am not saying this is wrong, just questioning this.
I can rotate my hips just as fast if not faster with my weight evenly spread between my feet. I think because I am able to use pushing and pulling forces through both legs equally.
One of the things that I notice with Hogan, is that his right heel does not want to immediately come off the ground and stays low to the ground till impact. If his weight were entirely on his left side before impact, I feel that this would tend to pull the heel up earlier. The fact it stays low seems to indicate a fair bit of weight on the right till impact, to me.
But is rotation better somehow with one axis, rather than two? The hips are ball and socket joints and I would have thought will easily rotate together whilst moving laterally.

[Dariusz J.]

Matt,
Rear heel cannot turn out and go up - and instead stays down (albeit not on the ground especially with longer clubs) when the rear hip joint motion is correct, i.e. it never comes closer to the ball. It's not because there is a lot of weight remaining on it. Tush line losers will have difficulties in keeping the heel down exactly because their pelvis area movement is incorrect. That's why a very important visualization of biokinetically correct hip joints motions is a vizualization of an eccentric wheel.
As regards axis of rotation of both hip joints - there can be only one axis of rotation - only its allocation can change. I believe you think about a scenario of placing the axis of rotation between them and make them both rotate in the same time. Well, it will severely impact what happens with femur bones and, consequently, whole legs. Lead leg would go rapidly to the rear and straighten immediately while the rear one would go the opposite thing with all negative consequences.

Cheers

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285233010' post='2710011']
when the rear hip joint motion is correct, i.e. it never comes closer to the ball.
[/quote]

are you saying hogans right hip didn't get closer to the ball, or is this communication breakdown, or ssome anti hump visualization tip ?

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1285235058' post='2710019']are you saying hogans right hip didn't get closer to the ball, or is this communication breakdown, or ssome anti hump visualization tip ?
[/quote]

It surely can be a great visualization/thought/tip for tush line losers if one like to use conscious thoughts during the motion.
But it is also what happens in reality: rear hip joint never goes closer to the ball than it was established at address until the late downswing part (when the rotation around the lead side axis ultimately opening hips and, simultaneously, brings the rear hip closer to the ball-target line). What is most important - the rear hip joint must not come closer to the ball during the transition in the area while it really moves linearily targetwise.

Cheers

[JOEGOLFWRX]

communication breakdown then, thought you were prescribing something totally different, im guessing 'linearly targetwise' is a loose description also.

[Matt1960]

Dariusz,
Yes thats very interesting information.
And one of the real differences in Hogans right hip motion that I have studied is the fact that the right hip stays very much away from the ball, and much more than most players. So this I completely agree with.
But is this particular motion controlled by the right or left side?

[TeeAce]

When talking about forces and left side movement, I just found a fresh Video of Long Driving European master, Iiro Savinko.

[url="http://www.iltasanomat.fi/videot/urheilu/2254017"]video[/url]

Sorry guys it's only in finnish, but Video is still the same. They said those shots went little bit over 350 meters (385 yds)

No.. I don't say one should hit like that on the course

[Matt1960]

An interesting action.
I see the left leg pull back after impact. But he looks to me not to have as much weight left at impact as Hogan.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285241286' post='2710070']
Dariusz,
Yes thats very interesting information.
And one of the real differences in Hogans right hip motion that I have studied is the fact that the right hip stays very much away from the ball, and much more than most players. So this I completely agree with.
But is this particular motion controlled by the right or left side?
[/quote]

IMO, it is automated and unconscious motion that happens thanks to special stance he used/invented (diagonal stance) plus properly directed effects of torques (firm rear side and swinging sequentially from the ground up). In short, using Chris' words - an effect of a setup dependent action.

Cheers

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285255830' post='2710419']
An interesting action.
I see the left leg pull back after impact. But he looks to me not to have as much weight left at impact as Hogan.
[/quote]

Nothing to do with Hogan, but something in this thread. Remember that what we see, has started much earlier.