Hogan's hips

[Matt1960]

[quote name='BigTexGolfer' timestamp='1282617032' post='2658140']
How do you prevent the hips from overrotating? I think my main problem is in my setup, with my right hip actually being higher than my left (right handed player). Looks like the angle of my hips is ange slightly left, while my spine is angle somewhat right to nearly exactly verticle. On my backswing my left knee caves in and I have a reverse hip pivot. Not sure if this is all of the problem or just part of it. Here is a view of it:


[url="http://www.swingacademy.com/videoPlayer.aspx?id=7491"]http://www.swingacad...er.aspx?id=7491[/url]


What do you think?
[/quote]

I think part of the problem here is that you are rotating around the centre or even front of the body. this type of motion will always push the spine laterally toward the target on the backswing.
You need to learn how to rotate around the spine more, which then forces the mass of your body onto the right hip on the backswing.
For this you have to remember that your spine is on your back and not in the centre of your body.
Try this:
Take your address position and with your rear end/spine touching the corner of a wall/door jam or even better the corner of a kitchen worktop/countertop. Then swing back and rotate your lower body whilst keeping the spine touching this corner. Your body mass will automatically move over the right hip and your right butt cheek will also move slightly deeper (which nearly all great golfers do).
Hope this helps.

[supercharger]

If you lead with the hips such as hogan the left side will be dominating due to being pulled around by the hips. Once the hips have rotated far enough ccw to seperate and throw the arms and hands to the right of the target line then the right side takes over. If one slides the hips linear and level as 99% of all golfers due they will stall and the right will have to catch up forcing the right to be the dominating force earlier. I think as much or more power can be generated this way but controlling it is harder than the way hogan did with much less stress on the left knee, hip and spine.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='supercharger' timestamp='1284347610' post='2693428']
If you lead with the hips such as hogan the left side will be dominating due to being pulled around by the hips. Once the hips have rotated far enough ccw to seperate and throw the arms and hands to the right of the target line then the right side takes over. If one slides the hips linear and level as 99% of all golfers due they will stall and the right will have to catch up forcing the right to be the dominating force earlier. I think as much or more power can be generated this way but controlling it is harder than the way hogan did with much less stress on the left knee, hip and spine.
[/quote]

But why cannot the right hip/leg provide a lot of the rotational speed through pushing?
It surely does not necessarily mean a stall or a slide.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1284884114' post='2704018']
[quote name='supercharger' timestamp='1284347610' post='2693428']
If you lead with the hips such as hogan the left side will be dominating due to being pulled around by the hips. Once the hips have rotated far enough ccw to seperate and throw the arms and hands to the right of the target line then the right side takes over. If one slides the hips linear and level as 99% of all golfers due they will stall and the right will have to catch up forcing the right to be the dominating force earlier. I think as much or more power can be generated this way but controlling it is harder than the way hogan did with much less stress on the left knee, hip and spine.
[/quote]

But why cannot the right hip/leg provide a lot of the rotational speed through pushing?
It surely does not necessarily mean a stall or a slide.
[/quote]

In biomechanical way and with laws of physic there is no pulling action, because it can't exist when fixed point is missing from that side. There is only pushing motions coming up from the ground. Left leg is pushing left hip away from the target and right side is pushing toward the target. That is obvious when You just rotate some object between Your hands.

When those forces are not equal, object will move to another position.

What player feels to do is something different and also to find out real direction of those pushing forces to get rotation done with the right way, but those both forces has to be there and based to the fixed point to support them.

Why did Hogan had that extra spike on his right shoe?

[Matt1960]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1284886474' post='2704027']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1284884114' post='2704018']
[quote name='supercharger' timestamp='1284347610' post='2693428']
If you lead with the hips such as hogan the left side will be dominating due to being pulled around by the hips. Once the hips have rotated far enough ccw to seperate and throw the arms and hands to the right of the target line then the right side takes over. If one slides the hips linear and level as 99% of all golfers due they will stall and the right will have to catch up forcing the right to be the dominating force earlier. I think as much or more power can be generated this way but controlling it is harder than the way hogan did with much less stress on the left knee, hip and spine.
[/quote]

But why cannot the right hip/leg provide a lot of the rotational speed through pushing?
It surely does not necessarily mean a stall or a slide.
[/quote]

In biomechanical way and with laws of physic there is no pulling action, because it can't exist when fixed point is missing from that side. There is only pushing motions coming up from the ground. Left leg is pushing left hip away from the target and right side is pushing toward the target. That is obvious when You just rotate some object between Your hands.

When those forces are not equal, object will move to another position.

What player feels to do is something different and also to find out real direction of those pushing forces to get rotation done with the right way, but those both forces has to be there and based to the fixed point to support them.

Why did Hogan had that extra spike on his right shoe?



[/quote]

Yes that sounds logical to me, but Hogan makes his lateral movement and probably some of the weight shift at the end of the backswing and in transition, so this would indicate a more one sided push from the right at this time. It would be very difficult to pull from the left when less weight is on the left I would have thought.
But what I see is the right hip moving much further than the left from the top. This should indicate much more pushing from the right, and may be why he had the extra spike.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1284886474' post='2704027']
In biomechanical way and with laws of physic there is no pulling action, because it can't exist when fixed point is missing from that side. There is only pushing motions coming up from the ground. Left leg is pushing left hip away from the target and right side is pushing toward the target. That is obvious when You just rotate some object between Your hands.

When those forces are not equal, object will move to another position.

What player feels to do is something different and also to find out real direction of those pushing forces to get rotation done with the right way, but those both forces has to be there and based to the fixed point to support them.

Why did Hogan had that extra spike on his right shoe?
[/quote]

Good post. With an additional spike he wanted to be sure that the rear side was very firm from the ground up. The rear side is like a catapult for the lead side equipped with torques in the joints that meet their natural limits.

Cheers

[supercharger]

We are talking about he hips just to clarify. The hips are the power release engine. If the upper body is rotated to its max and the lower body feet and legs are grounded and or stressed to their max this creates and elastic tension due to muscle, tendon, and bone limits. As the body reaches this point, any squatting tightens or adds to this energy. The left hip will be the fulcrum point along with the first energy source to start the ccw rotation. The first thing to move is the cog which is the hips which is also the intersection of opposing rotational forces. If you are not feeling the left hip and lats leading the downswing one cannot understand what i am talking about. The pencil between the hands is apples to oranges. Pull on rotation and the stroke will be much longer and create more energy as compared to pushing on an arc to create energy.

[dap]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1284913561' post='2704265']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1284886474' post='2704027']
In biomechanical way and with laws of physic there is no pulling action, because it can't exist when fixed point is missing from that side. There is only pushing motions coming up from the ground. Left leg is pushing left hip away from the target and right side is pushing toward the target. That is obvious when You just rotate some object between Your hands.

When those forces are not equal, object will move to another position.

What player feels to do is something different and also to find out real direction of those pushing forces to get rotation done with the right way, but those both forces has to be there and based to the fixed point to support them.

Why did Hogan had that extra spike on his right shoe?
[/quote]

Good post. With an additional spike he wanted to be sure that the rear side was very firm from the ground up. The rear side is like a catapult for the lead side equipped with torques in the joints that meet their natural limits.

Cheers
[/quote]
Has this extra spike been proven or is it just another Hogan myth?

Hogan did not have his right foot that well planted especially with the most dynamic club in the bag..the driver.

A combination of his wide stance and heavy lateral move resulted in Hogan dragging his right foot along the ground closer to the left foot on the downswing.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='supercharger' timestamp='1285038124' post='2706455']
We are talking about he hips just to clarify. The hips are the power release engine. If the upper body is rotated to its max and the lower body feet and legs are grounded and or stressed to their max this creates and elastic tension due to muscle, tendon, and bone limits. As the body reaches this point, any squatting tightens or adds to this energy. The left hip will be the fulcrum point along with the first energy source to start the ccw rotation. The first thing to move is the cog which is the hips which is also the intersection of opposing rotational forces. If you are not feeling the left hip and lats leading the downswing one cannot understand what i am talking about. The pencil between the hands is apples to oranges. Pull on rotation and the stroke will be much longer and create more energy as compared to pushing on an arc to create energy.
[/quote]

I'm not sure if I get You right, but if I did, I want You to make one simple test. Lift Your left foot off the ground and try to rotate Your hips by pulling rotation move. How far You hit with that?

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285039468' post='2706485']

Has this extra spike been proven or is it just another Hogan myth?

Hogan did not have his right foot that well planted especially with the most dynamic club in the bag..the driver.

A combination of his wide stance and heavy lateral move resulted in Hogan dragging his right foot along the ground closer to the left foot on the downswing.
[/quote]

I would say proven and second... yes it was well planted. But only from the point of that extra spike and toward the toes from there.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285039468' post='2706485']Hogan did not have his right foot that well planted especially with the most dynamic club in the bag..the driver.

[/quote]

The extra spike was most useful to enlarge friction rate while approaching and during transition when the biggest torques took place - not in the delivery phase.

Cheers

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285051720' post='2706631']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285039468' post='2706485']Hogan did not have his right foot that well planted especially with the most dynamic club in the bag..the driver.

[/quote]

The extra spike was most useful to enlarge friction rate while approaching and during transition when the biggest torques took place - not in the delivery phase.

Cheers
[/quote]



I see it differently.

When measuring hips rotation speed with good ball strikers and "not so good" there is a huge different how it acts at impact zone and after it. Best strikers I have measured can really come through the impact with rotation and their right knee moves differently. In hi speed video can also be seen, that they have much more "loading" on that extra spike position when coming to impact. I don't have device to measure the pressure change under right foot during the swing, but as discussed with players those better ones also feel they are using their toes and leg through the impact.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='supercharger' timestamp='1285038124' post='2706455']
We are talking about he hips just to clarify. The hips are the power release engine. If the upper body is rotated to its max and the lower body feet and legs are grounded and or stressed to their max this creates and elastic tension due to muscle, tendon, and bone limits. As the body reaches this point, any squatting tightens or adds to this energy. The left hip will be the fulcrum point along with the first energy source to start the ccw rotation. The first thing to move is the cog which is the hips which is also the intersection of opposing rotational forces. If you are not feeling the left hip and lats leading the downswing one cannot understand what i am talking about. The pencil between the hands is apples to oranges. Pull on rotation and the stroke will be much longer and create more energy as compared to pushing on an arc to create energy.
[/quote]


I have uncertainties about this. Does the left hip really become the fulcrum point?
What I notice with Hogan and with others is that the left hip continues to rotate and get deeper at impact. It is moving continuously (not much) and is not completely stable.
The right hip is much more mobile than the left though as it has much further to move than the left. This is why I feel that a pushing motion from the right is a must.
I would also note that the hips slow down at impact, which I guess is facilitating the release of the upper body through impact and by mid followthough, the hips and shoulders line up square to each other. If the hips were not very open at impact , then the shoulders would be more likely to line up with them earlier and some upper body speed through impact would be lost.
I am not sure about the weight distribution at impact either. My feeling is that more weight is on the right at impact than we currently think, but the weight is shifting very left for the followthrough, which is when Hogan slides his right foot. I dont think the extra spike has anything to do with minimising sliding, but more to do with the pushing in the downswing.
I have wondered if the most stable element which could be seen as the fulcrum is the lower spine. This seems very stable to me as the hips seem to rotate around this point more than the hips. Can this not be so?

[dap]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1285054168' post='2706640']
[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285051720' post='2706631']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285039468' post='2706485']Hogan did not have his right foot that well planted especially with the most dynamic club in the bag..the driver.

[/quote]

The extra spike was most useful to enlarge friction rate while approaching and during transition when the biggest torques took place - not in the delivery phase.

Cheers
[/quote]



I see it differently.

When measuring hips rotation speed with good ball strikers and "not so good" there is a huge different how it acts at impact zone and after it. Best strikers I have measured can really come through the impact with rotation and their right knee moves differently. In hi speed video can also be seen, that they have much more "loading" on that extra spike position when coming to impact. I don't have device to measure the pressure change under right foot during the swing, but as discussed with players those better ones also feel they are using their toes and leg through the impact.
[/quote]
I have seen a weight shift study on pro golfers using pressure plates synchronised with high speed video that shows maximum loading on the right foot occurs at a point just before the top of the backswing.This loading reduces substantially during the downswing.The feel may be different but this is the real.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1285054168' post='2706640']

I see it differently.

When measuring hips rotation speed with good ball strikers and "not so good" there is a huge different how it acts at impact zone and after it. Best strikers I have measured can really come through the impact with rotation and their right knee moves differently. In hi speed video can also be seen, that they have much more "loading" on that extra spike position when coming to impact. I don't have device to measure the pressure change under right foot during the swing, but as discussed with players those better ones also feel they are using their toes and leg through the impact.
[/quote]

Very good point as well. Tere is a indeed pressure point located exactly in the area of the balls of the rear foot and certainly it is in use approaching impact. However, the transition is the phase while the biggest torques act.
It is a pity that you do not possess a device measuring "dynamic weight" since a lot could be proven, I guess.

Cheers

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285055636' post='2706649']
I have uncertainties about this. Does the left hip really become the fulcrum point?
What I notice with Hogan and with others is that the left hip continues to rotate and get deeper at impact. It is moving continuously (not much) and is not completely stable.
The right hip is much more mobile than the left though as it has much further to move than the left. This is why I feel that a pushing motion from the right is a must.
I would also note that the hips slow down at impact, which I guess is facilitating the release of the upper body through impact and by mid followthough, the hips and shoulders line up square to each other. If the hips were not very open at impact , then the shoulders would be more likely to line up with them earlier and some upper body speed through impact would be lost.
I am not sure about the weight distribution at impact either. My feeling is that more weight is on the right at impact than we currently think, but the weight is shifting very left for the followthrough, which is when Hogan slides his right foot. I dont think the extra spike has anything to do with minimising sliding, but more to do with the pushing in the downswing.
I have wondered if the most stable element which could be seen as the fulcrum is the lower spine. This seems very stable to me as the hips seem to rotate around this point more than the hips. Can this not be so?
[/quote]

Well,the fulcrum point is definitely closer to the lead hip for the following reasons:
- famous "Wiberg angle"; the hips are much closer to the centre of pelvis than we think and the hip joint isn't just over the femur bone;
- the vast majority of the "dynamic weight" is on the lead side;
- if we assume that the second part of the downswing (at least, preferably it is sooner) consists of pure rotation there is no weight shift between the mid-downswing and the follow through phases as regards allowing for changing fulcrum points; what eventually is different is vanishing pressure of the rear foot causing the drag at the end.
Lastly, there is a very famous case of Hogan's rear foot [b]sliding[/b] at 18th at Olympic in 1955 (that eventually allowed the play off and Hogan lost his 5th US Open title that he practically had already); his foot slided in the wet ground; therefore, I guess it was not uncommon knowledge for someone who relied so much on torques that he needs some additional assecurance from such accidents.

Cheers

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285065310' post='2706688']

It is a pity that you do not possess a device measuring "dynamic weight" since a lot could be proven, I guess.


[/quote]

I try to get this [url="http://www.scienceandmotion.com/minicms/zeigseite.php?filename=balancelab_uebersicht&navid=118&node=117:118&lang=en"]device[/url] to test as those people are back in europe and have a discussion about those measurements they have done. On the demo I couldn't really find out how well it gives information about pressure points of the foot.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1285066738' post='2706694']
I try to get this [url="http://www.scienceandmotion.com/minicms/zeigseite.php?filename=balancelab_uebersicht&navid=118&node=117:118&lang=en"]device[/url]
[/quote]

fugly swing, look at a [url="http://www.quintic.com/members_forum/consultancy/Hitec.htm"]multiple major winner[/url] with sneed/hogan influence, counterfall forward, catch the post, rotate like taz and extend.

[supercharger]

Standing on either the left or right foot only while swinging proves nothing. We are talking about hogan and his hips. Both legs are needed for support, leverage and balance. Bring in some dynamic torque, squat and linear weight transfer and yes I will hit much further because the left side starts the downswing due to being closest to the center of rotation and in the direction the work is going to be performed. Use just a stick in this motion, and then try it with the right. You will have to manufacture force if you do not use the left side. As far as the weight of the left foot goes, one can see it being used to max out rotational limit of the left knee and then causing the left leg to straighten and the hip to rise and turn ccw. I am not saying the right side is passive by any means, I simply believe the left leads and has more influence in the rotation. Just look how long his left arm is straight. The big muscles of the back near the spine which happen to be nearest our vertical axis are the ones that can perform the work the fastest and easiest to rotate the the upper body of arms, hands, club in that order.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285065310' post='2706688']
Well,the fulcrum point is definitely closer to the lead hip for the following reasons:
- famous "Wiberg angle"; the hips are much closer to the centre of pelvis than we think and the hip joint isn't just over the femur bone;
- the vast majority of the "dynamic weight" is on the lead side;
- if we assume that the second part of the downswing (at least, preferably it is sooner) consists of pure rotation there is no weight shift between the mid-downswing and the follow through phases as regards allowing for changing fulcrum points; what eventually is different is vanishing pressure of the rear foot causing the drag at the end.
Lastly, there is a very famous case of Hogan's rear foot [b]sliding[/b] at 18th at Olympic in 1955 (that eventually allowed the play off and Hogan lost his 5th US Open title that he practically had already); his foot slided in the wet ground; therefore, I guess it was not uncommon knowledge for someone who relied so much on torques that he needs some additional assecurance from such accidents.

Cheers
[/quote]

Thank you Dariusz,
And yes I understand the anatomy of the hips and the hip balls and pelvic sockets are aften about half the width of the outside of the hips.
I also understand Dynamic weight a little, and I would describe this as when you jump up and land on some bathroom scales, they will show an exagerated weight for a split second.
I would accept there would be some dynamic weight movement in the golf swing, but I would have thought this would only last fractions of a second before real weight shift happens.
But what you are describing is that the weight shift has almost completely gone over to the left before any rotation of the hips (dynamic or static).
I cannot disprove this with Hogan, but I have seen measurements taken at impact with many top golfers, and very few have more weight on the left at impact. Was Hogan very different to others in this respect?

I also guess that his right foot slide was greater in the longer clubs than the shorter ones, as his stance was not only wider, but his right foot was back somewhat meaning that when he did get all his weight left in the followthrough, his right foot would need to slide.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285101165' post='2707427']
Thank you Dariusz,
And yes I understand the anatomy of the hips and the hip balls and pelvic sockets are aften about half the width of the outside of the hips.
I also understand Dynamic weight a little, and I would describe this as when you jump up and land on some bathroom scales, they will show an exagerated weight for a split second.
I would accept there would be some dynamic weight movement in the golf swing, but I would have thought this would only last fractions of a second before real weight shift happens.
But what you are describing is that the weight shift has almost completely gone over to the left before any rotation of the hips (dynamic or static).
I cannot disprove this with Hogan, but I have seen measurements taken at impact with many top golfers, and very few have more weight on the left at impact. Was Hogan very different to others in this respect?

I also guess that his right foot slide was greater in the longer clubs than the shorter ones, as his stance was not only wider, but his right foot was back somewhat meaning that when he did get all his weight left in the followthrough, his right foot would need to slide.
[/quote]

Matt, are you sure that the measurements you saw did not refer to the actual weight dispersion (static) and not dynamic one ? Hogan clearly said he felt (and the "dynamic weight" is equal to feel of pressure, IMO) 90% of it on his lead leg.
We had a discussion on this topic on the Manzella forum not so long time ago and, judging from posts, it is a confusing topic since the majority of people are clueless here.

Good remarks in the rest of the post. Good read.

Cheers

[Matt1960]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285103964' post='2707497']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285101165' post='2707427']
Thank you Dariusz,
And yes I understand the anatomy of the hips and the hip balls and pelvic sockets are aften about half the width of the outside of the hips.
I also understand Dynamic weight a little, and I would describe this as when you jump up and land on some bathroom scales, they will show an exagerated weight for a split second.
I would accept there would be some dynamic weight movement in the golf swing, but I would have thought this would only last fractions of a second before real weight shift happens.
But what you are describing is that the weight shift has almost completely gone over to the left before any rotation of the hips (dynamic or static).
I cannot disprove this with Hogan, but I have seen measurements taken at impact with many top golfers, and very few have more weight on the left at impact. Was Hogan very different to others in this respect?

I also guess that his right foot slide was greater in the longer clubs than the shorter ones, as his stance was not only wider, but his right foot was back somewhat meaning that when he did get all his weight left in the followthrough, his right foot would need to slide.
[/quote]

Matt, are you sure that the measurements you saw did not refer to the actual weight dispersion (static) and not dynamic one ? Hogan clearly said he felt (and the "dynamic weight" is equal to feel of pressure, IMO) 90% of it on his lead leg.
We had a discussion on this topic on the Manzella forum not so long time ago and, judging from posts, it is a confusing topic since the majority of people are clueless here.

Good remarks in the rest of the post. Good read.

Cheers
[/quote]
Dariusz,
I believe so. This was measured with scales on each leg, where the total reading was the same as their body weight.
I am sure you must have seen this article, but it was a real eye opener to me.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285105646' post='2707533']
[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285103964' post='2707497']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285101165' post='2707427']
Thank you Dariusz,
And yes I understand the anatomy of the hips and the hip balls and pelvic sockets are aften about half the width of the outside of the hips.
I also understand Dynamic weight a little, and I would describe this as when you jump up and land on some bathroom scales, they will show an exagerated weight for a split second.
I would accept there would be some dynamic weight movement in the golf swing, but I would have thought this would only last fractions of a second before real weight shift happens.
But what you are describing is that the weight shift has almost completely gone over to the left before any rotation of the hips (dynamic or static).
I cannot disprove this with Hogan, but I have seen measurements taken at impact with many top golfers, and very few have more weight on the left at impact. Was Hogan very different to others in this respect?

I also guess that his right foot slide was greater in the longer clubs than the shorter ones, as his stance was not only wider, but his right foot was back somewhat meaning that when he did get all his weight left in the followthrough, his right foot would need to slide.
[/quote]

Matt, are you sure that the measurements you saw did not refer to the actual weight dispersion (static) and not dynamic one ? Hogan clearly said he felt (and the "dynamic weight" is equal to feel of pressure, IMO) 90% of it on his lead leg.
We had a discussion on this topic on the Manzella forum not so long time ago and, judging from posts, it is a confusing topic since the majority of people are clueless here.

Good remarks in the rest of the post. Good read.

Cheers
[/quote]
Dariusz,
I believe so. This was measured with scales on each leg, where the total reading was the same as their body weight.
I am sure you must have seen this article, but it was a real eye opener to me.
[/quote]

Dariusz
To me this shows that the weight for the majority is very mobile and that the shift is not complete until much later than we have been led to believe.
Although an old article, I doubt that much has changed.

[Dariusz J.]

Matt, I haven't seen these tables before. One thing is very weird here - namely, the sum of lead side weight and rear side weight is equal to the total mass of a golfer, which suggests static weight measured - which would be possible only with posed body positions.
As we both now, dynamic weight would make the scales show increased weight.

Cheers

[dap]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285105646' post='2707533']
[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1285103964' post='2707497']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285101165' post='2707427']
Thank you Dariusz,
And yes I understand the anatomy of the hips and the hip balls and pelvic sockets are aften about half the width of the outside of the hips.
I also understand Dynamic weight a little, and I would describe this as when you jump up and land on some bathroom scales, they will show an exagerated weight for a split second.
I would accept there would be some dynamic weight movement in the golf swing, but I would have thought this would only last fractions of a second before real weight shift happens.
But what you are describing is that the weight shift has almost completely gone over to the left before any rotation of the hips (dynamic or static).
I cannot disprove this with Hogan, but I have seen measurements taken at impact with many top golfers, and very few have more weight on the left at impact. Was Hogan very different to others in this respect?

I also guess that his right foot slide was greater in the longer clubs than the shorter ones, as his stance was not only wider, but his right foot was back somewhat meaning that when he did get all his weight left in the followthrough, his right foot would need to slide.
[/quote]

Matt, are you sure that the measurements you saw did not refer to the actual weight dispersion (static) and not dynamic one ? Hogan clearly said he felt (and the "dynamic weight" is equal to feel of pressure, IMO) 90% of it on his lead leg.
We had a discussion on this topic on the Manzella forum not so long time ago and, judging from posts, it is a confusing topic since the majority of people are clueless here.

Good remarks in the rest of the post. Good read.

Cheers
[/quote]
Dariusz,
I believe so. This was measured with scales on each leg, where the total reading was the same as their body weight.
I am sure you must have seen this article, but it was a real eye opener to me.
[/quote]
Using analogue scales will not cut it.There is lag in the readings as it takes time for the indicator to move.There is no way there is that much weight on the right foot at impact.

I have seen studies using proper setup force plates time synchronised with video that shows around 75% weight on the lead foot at impact for touring pros.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1285128302' post='2708104']
There is no way there is that much weight on the right foot at impact.


[/quote]


Yes there is. Stay behind the ball

[Matt1960]

Dariusz,
Here is a picture of Norman on these scales, and I believe this shows that it is not posed. And it clearly shows more weight on the right at impact, in fact 66% and he had 95% on the right at the top of the backswing.
I think this article is from the 80's by the look of it.
As I have said before the science is a little beyond me, but I would have thought dynamic weight with regard the swing would only be effective for split seconds.
Anyway an interesting article, which did tend to change my opinion quite a bit on what was actually happening in the swing.
As I have said, I have doubts about the whole principle of left pivot points. Its sometimes useful to explore and question current theory as I am sure you have.

[Matt1960]

Just found the details of the article.
Golf Digest April 1989.
Sure, I know some will say analogue scales are not accurate etc, with measuring dynamic weight, but I think they do a good enough job.

[dap]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285141495' post='2708231']
Just found the details of the article.
Golf Digest April 1989.
Sure, I know some will say analogue scales are not accurate etc, with measuring dynamic weight, but I think they do a good enough job.
[/quote]
They don't do a good enough job apparently.Force plates synchronised with high speed video do not match those results.

Analogue scales simply do not react quick enough for the purpose intended.The indicated weight lags well behind real time.

[eightiron]

[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285140165' post='2708218']
Dariusz,
Here is a picture of Norman on these scales, and I believe this shows that it is not posed. And it clearly shows more weight on the right at impact, in fact 66% and he had 95% on the right at the top of the backswing.
I think this article is from the 80's by the look of it.
As I have said before the science is a little beyond me, but I would have thought dynamic weight with regard the swing would only be effective for split seconds.
Anyway an interesting article, which did tend to change my opinion quite a bit on what was actually happening in the swing.
As I have said, I have doubts about the whole principle of left pivot points. Its sometimes useful to explore and question current theory as I am sure you have.
[/quote]


I wouldn't get to into those findings being accurate , however Greg Norman was prone to being way more inside and underneath ( in to out) than the man this forum is about

[Matt1960]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1285143211' post='2708240']
[quote name='Matt1960' timestamp='1285140165' post='2708218']
Dariusz,
Here is a picture of Norman on these scales, and I believe this shows that it is not posed. And it clearly shows more weight on the right at impact, in fact 66% and he had 95% on the right at the top of the backswing.
I think this article is from the 80's by the look of it.
As I have said before the science is a little beyond me, but I would have thought dynamic weight with regard the swing would only be effective for split seconds.
Anyway an interesting article, which did tend to change my opinion quite a bit on what was actually happening in the swing.
As I have said, I have doubts about the whole principle of left pivot points. Its sometimes useful to explore and question current theory as I am sure you have.
[/quote]


I wouldn't get to into those findings being accurate , however Greg Norman was prone to being way more inside and underneath ( in to out) than the man this forum is about
[/quote]


Yes, I realise that Norman's swing was different, and I was just trying to illustrate to Dariusz that the measurements were not posed.
Mind you Norman was regarded as by far the best driver of his era, and probably would compare very favourably to the statistics today.
IMO, nowadays the courses have been adapted to the big business of the manufacturers to sell more equipment. But thats another subject.

But anyway, back to dynamic weight shift.
The article used, indicates that high speed photography were used. I guess if there were dynamic weights present they would show up as bounces on analogue scales quite well. There was no mention of this that I can remember. Kostis did talk about the fact that he thought that there were more weight going to the left side of the spine rather than foot measurements. I am not disagreeing with that theory, but am not sure.

Yes I understand that with dynamic weight there will be a fractional lag when comparing to static weight.
Perhaps somebody could explain how much, and relate this to these statistics so that I can make a more informed decision as to what is actually happening.

The problem we will have with regard comparing with Hogan, as we do not, and I guess will not ever have dynamic or static weight statistics for him.

By the way this particular article is a remake of weight shift testing from the swings in 1962, including Gardner Dickinson, where there was even less weight on the left through impact than 1989.