Shanks - simply too close to ball?

GorlamiGreens · May 2

Going through a swing change and have been struggling with the shanks. My instructor wants my spine angle to be anywhere from 150-155 degrees so I have been conscious of trying to keep back of armpits over knee caps over balls of feet. Looking at video, it seems like my arms have nowhere to go and thus the shanks. I realize I dump my angles and cast, but are the shanks simply being too close to the ball or is there another culprit? Thank you in advance!

TheDeanAbides · May 2

You seem to know your goals, so what do you see here?

GorlamiGreens · May 2

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You seem to know your goals, so what do you see here?

Head moving off the ball, trail knee moving towards ball, trail foot lifting off ground are the three things that stand out most.

TheDeanAbides · May 2

12 minutes ago, GorlamiGreens said:

Head moving off the ball, trail knee moving towards ball, trail foot lifting off ground are the three things that stand out most.

Why is the trail knee moving towards the ball? What would prevent that and give you enough room to enter the hitting area correctly?

Edited May 2 by TheDeanAbides

GorlamiGreens · May 2

8 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Why is the trail knee moving towards the ball? What would prevent that and give you enough room to enter the hitting area correctly?

Not properly utilizing the ground with my trail foot would be my guess - but honestly not sure what the root cause is here.

TheDeanAbides · May 2

2 minutes ago, GorlamiGreens said:

Not properly utilizing the ground with my trail foot would be my guess - but honestly not sure what the root cause is here.

See the edit. Attached a video.

GorlamiGreens · May 2

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

See the edit. Attached a video.

Cool thank you - this makes sense. More so keeping the hips/butt back is the feeling. I suspect this will also allow my trail foot to stay planted for longer.

TheDeanAbides · May 2

29 minutes ago, GorlamiGreens said:

Cool thank you - this makes sense. More so keeping the hips/butt back is the feeling. I suspect this will also allow my trail foot to stay planted for longer.

Bingo

Valtiel · May 2

In addition to what @TheDeanAbides accurately pointed out here, your hands are also getting very deep in the backswing and then are getting left up there far too long which is compounding the depth/space problem:|

This would be a pretty "standard" length backswing overall.

But you continue deeper and further behind you in a way that starts to demand more and more hand speed to achieve the necessary "getting your arms back in front of you" that you need to stay in sequence and deliver the club consistently and neutrally.

And this is where it really compounds, because your hands are VERY slow and quiet here. They passively drop behind you as your right leg shoots forward like Dean pointed out, and here you have a very simply physics problem; arms stuck behind, leg moving forward, where do my hands even go now? From this position you'll see a pros hands moving WAY faster and more out in front of the body.

You get totally stuck here as you're feeling; hands way behind your body, right leg in the way.

This forces you to swing out to the right, creating a sort of last second in to out path, and critically even here your hands are *very* quiet. You seem to almost be making no attempt to use them to save anything. The right hand doesn't chase and turn the club over, it's a very "I have no wrists" kind of release through the ball which loops back around to how quiet your hands were coming down. It feels like somewhere along the line you heard a "leave the hands up and keep them quiet" sort of instruction sound byte and took it to an extreme coupled with a damaging lower body move.

So in addition to what Dean prescribed, you also need to tighten up your backswing length and get your hands WAY faster and more active in the swing. You're a prime candidate for Padraig's Wrist Drill lesson combined with the lower stuff above.

Edited May 2 by Valtiel

TheDeanAbides · May 2

6 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

In addition to what @TheDeanAbides accurately pointed out here, your hands are also getting very deep in the backswing and then are getting left up there far too long which is compounding the depth/space problem:|

This would be a pretty "standard" length backswing overall.

But you continue deeper and further behind you in a way that starts to demand more and more hand speed to achieve the necessary "getting your arms back in front of you" that you need to stay in sequence and deliver the club consistently and neutrally.

And this is where it really compounds, because your hands are VERY slow and quiet here. They passively drop behind you as your right leg shoots forward like Dean pointed out, and here you have a very simply physics problem; arms stuck behind, leg moving forward, where do my hands even go now? From this position you'll see a pros hands moving WAY faster and more out in front of the body.

You get totally stuck here as you're feeling; hands way behind your body, right leg in the way.

This forces you to swing out to the right, creating a sort of last second in to out path, and critically even here your hands are *very* quiet. You seem to almost be making to attempt to use them to save anything. The right hand doesn't chase and turn the club over, it's a very "I have no wrists" kind of release through the ball which loops back around to how quiet your hands were coming down. It feels like somewhere along the line you heard a "leave the hands up and keep them quiet" sort of instruction sound byte and took it to an extreme coupled with a damaging lower body move.

So in addition to what Dean prescribed, you also need to tighten up your backswing length and get your hands WAY faster and more active in the swing. You're a prime candidate for Padraig's Wrist Drill lesson combined with the lower stuff above.

Spot on. I sound like a broken record talking about that, so I left it for you. 🤣

ac6 · May 2

In addition to the moves @TheDeanAbides and @Valtiel have noted above, you do also appear to be standing very close to the ball with a very curved upper back (so your true spine angle is actually the yellow line below). This isn't a swing fault in itself but it does appear to be a compensation you're making to reach the ball since your club looks to be soled slightly heel-up. I'd think trying to stand an inch or two further away and lifting your head to straighten the upper back would help make additional space for you to come from the inside, but then your club wouldn't reach the ground. Are you tall and are these clubs standard loft/lie?

GorlamiGreens · May 3

20 hours ago, Valtiel said:

In addition to what @TheDeanAbides accurately pointed out here, your hands are also getting very deep in the backswing and then are getting left up there far too long which is compounding the depth/space problem:|

This would be a pretty "standard" length backswing overall.

But you continue deeper and further behind you in a way that starts to demand more and more hand speed to achieve the necessary "getting your arms back in front of you" that you need to stay in sequence and deliver the club consistently and neutrally.

And this is where it really compounds, because your hands are VERY slow and quiet here. They passively drop behind you as your right leg shoots forward like Dean pointed out, and here you have a very simply physics problem; arms stuck behind, leg moving forward, where do my hands even go now? From this position you'll see a pros hands moving WAY faster and more out in front of the body.

You get totally stuck here as you're feeling; hands way behind your body, right leg in the way.

This forces you to swing out to the right, creating a sort of last second in to out path, and critically even here your hands are *very* quiet. You seem to almost be making no attempt to use them to save anything. The right hand doesn't chase and turn the club over, it's a very "I have no wrists" kind of release through the ball which loops back around to how quiet your hands were coming down. It feels like somewhere along the line you heard a "leave the hands up and keep them quiet" sort of instruction sound byte and took it to an extreme coupled with a damaging lower body move.

So in addition to what Dean prescribed, you also need to tighten up your backswing length and get your hands WAY faster and more active in the swing. You're a prime candidate for Padraig's Wrist Drill lesson combined with the lower stuff above.

Thank you for the thorough breakdown here. All makes sense. In the first clip that would be “standard” backswing length, should I be more vertical there or is that fine depth?

GorlamiGreens · May 3

16 hours ago, ac6 said:

In addition to the moves @TheDeanAbides and @Valtiel have noted above, you do also appear to be standing very close to the ball with a very curved upper back (so your true spine angle is actually the yellow line below). This isn't a swing fault in itself but it does appear to be a compensation you're making to reach the ball since your club looks to be soled slightly heel-up. I'd think trying to stand an inch or two further away and lifting your head to straighten the upper back would help make additional space for you to come from the inside, but then your club wouldn't reach the ground. Are you tall and are these clubs standard loft/lie?

I am 6’4, my clubs are an inch extended. I have always struggled to get into a comfy position at address. I realize here watching the clips that I have an inch or so of grip to work with.

The yellow line true spine angle is alarming.