Another Yank moving to England looking for a Golf Club

[67VIP]

I played another local course for the first time today, Thetford Golf Club. It was a nice enough course, sort of like Woodhall Spa in appearance but without the 12 foot deep bunkers. But I'll be damned if I did not run into the second a** clown member of a british course i've played in the past month. Thetford is 6800+ from the whites and 6600+ from the yellows...not alot of difference, in fact why have two sets of tees so close together? Any how I started on the yellows and moved back to the whites on a few holes as the tees were quite a bit out of position according to the scorecard. While I'm waiting to tee off on the sixth hole a supposed member walks over and says "excuse me--you have to play from the yellow tees." I said what's the difference...they were maybe 12 yards apart, and said member replies "it's the rules of the club, white tees are for members only." I told him fine and moved up, but to me that was just a crass move on his part....simply an attempt to embarrass me in front of my wife for his foursome's amusement.

I have played well over a 100 rounds in the 18 months I've been over here at probably 40 courses...and I've been told what tees to play twice--Ely City Golf Club and Thetford Golf Club. Where I come from, you pay the green fee--you bite off as much as you think you can chew. Add to it on American courses the back tees are either gold, blue, or black...depending on how many sets of tees there are--i've seen seven...try figuring that out! White tees are always the forward men's tees, but needless to say a good walk was spoiled. I still played half decent on a course I've never seen before, but the whole thing reminded me very much of some of the snotty members at my father's old club--the kind you'd like to wrap a 1 iron around. However; I did run into another member who asked how my round was going, etc and when he found out I was stationed at Mildenhall he said I should come over more often...I got the feeling the club might be trying to recruit/welcome new members from the bases nearby. I would very much like to join a british club but people like that are a real turnoff...makes me wonder if they're constipated and the only thing they have to look forward to is their next bowel movement.

Funny thing is, the big name courses where you might expect to be told where/when/how/why to play never say a word except have a good time/enjoy the course...places like Woburn, London Golf Club, Celtic Manor, Woodhall Spa, The Belfry, The Grove, Woodbridge, Ipswich, Forest of Arden, Sheringham & Royal Cromer.

[Sean25rp]

Hey VIP, sorry to hear you've run into a few plonkers! Sadly they exist at clubs all over the world so don't be put off joining a club. I agree that if you've paid your green fee and are competent enough you should be able to play the whites.

Keep us posted about your escapades, I enjoy hearing about all the courses you've played.

[67VIP]

Thanks Sean, part of my irritation yesterday might stem from the fact all my golf buds are at a three day Ryder Cup match at Old Thorns...and somehow I was left of the 14 man team. I'm not particularly fond of the course at Old Thorns--it's alittle too contrived for my taste, but the hotel/food/staff are wonderful. ...and everybody likes a three day drunk mixed with a few rounds of golf every now and again. In fact I carry a flask with 12 year old Jameson's Irish Whiskey in my golf bag just to remind myself that every round is supposed to be fun. Works most of the time.

[67VIP]

Made my second visit to Forest of Arden. Played the Arden course for the second time and it was in much better condition than the first visit last year. The course was very wet from an overnite soaking, but much more lush and green than I remember. The biggest surprise was how fast and smooth the greens were...the fastest I have played in quite some time. I three putted five of the first six holes, which killed me as my ball striking was pretty much on. The best part of the Arden course is the back nine, well worth a visit for those nine holes alone. There are a few good ones on the front, but the back is stellar. Stopped by The Belfry to look for a gift and noticed that both the Brabazon and PGA National courses looked to be in great shape as well.

[67VIP]

I played two very different club matches this weekend, managed to win both my matches and my club won both as well...and when I say different, I mean night and day.

The first; on Saturday, was against Links Golf Club in Newmarket. What an incredible fun lot they are! We play them twice a year/home and away. I've been priviledged to play all four over the last two years and it has been an absolute blast. Don't get me wrong they want to win as badly as we do, but it is done in a gentlemanly manner...with a fine meal, spirits, and unbelieveably great comraderie. Add to it Saturday was a beautiful day for the most part, and my opponents this year entertained my partner and I all the way around their very fine course and then had us laughing so hard over dinner and drinks I thought I was going to wet my pants. His story about a loo in Chicago's O'Hare airport on a layover...you just had to be there...win or lose it was a great day! I'm already looking forward to our matches next year. We are going to treat them to American steaks, ribs, and brisket...hopefully none of them will have a heart attack at dinner.

The second on Sunday was against Menzies Cambridge--fairly tough course. They have beaten us; more like stomped, the last three matches that I played in plus more I'm told. We were treated to a very nice breakfast and then met up with our opponents and eventually tee'd off. My partner and I are three up after three holes......drum roll please....after putting out for the win on three, I'm approached by one of my opponents and informed I mis-marked my ball. Didn't attempt to charge me a penalty--just alittle gamesmanship. I was told I marked my ball to the side when moving it for a players putting line, but marked it in front when I put it back. I honestly don't remember, but it couldn't have been more that a half inch difference on a five foot putt. So....I just happened to be using a large coin from The Belfry that had The Brabazon and Ryder Cup flag logos on it. I used the point of the flag as my aim point the rest of the way around, and then proceeded to do my best damn Jack Nicklaus impersonation I possibly could and hit some really inspiring iron shots, including 2 cracking fairway bunker shots from 165 and 175 yards. I shot 38 on the front from the tips, but the weather and 5 hr + round got to me on the back and i didn't play quite as well. I had done most of the damage on the first 12 holes, but my partner saved the day on the last 6 with three crucial putts for a half and then one for the outright win on 18 to put them away for good 2 up. We shook hands all around, but that was one of the hardest matches I had ever played. We were never comfortable on a lead--even when 3 up, and I didn't have a whole lot to say to one player in particular other than good shot, when necessary. We won the club match 7 to 1; which was terrific, but I was not in the mood to hang around afterwards for a drink. I was already two hours late finishing, the wife was ticked off I was gone all day two days in a row, etc, etc...so turned in our card/spoke with fellow team members for a minute and split. Probably not the coolest thing to have done, but I live with four other family members and have to keep the peace somehow. I need another weekend just to wind down.

[67VIP]

Visited Colne Valley a week ago, what a nice track! Could have done without the mud...cold, silky, sticky, crappy stuff I'm still scraping off. The course has some really interesting holes and I'd love to go back when it's warmer AND drier. I did manage to birdie 11, 12, 13...my putter was on fire on the back nine as I made two 15 footers to save par on 14 & 15. However; I did have six double bogies to go with my four birdies to make for a roller coaster round and final score of 82. The Colchester area has three nice courses within 10 miles of each other in Colne Valley, Braintree, & Stoke By Nayland.

[Sean25rp]

Stoke by Nayland is always well rated. Sadly the weather will only get worse for us here from now on I suspect. Played last weekend in gloriously sunny but cold conditions. Probably one of the last few dry and cheery rounds of the year if I had to guess. Keep us updated.

[67VIP]

So now that it's December and the weather's looking grim I found myself thinking about where I've been this year and where I want to go next year. I think we started at Felixstowe, Ufford Park, Royal Cromer (3x), Stoke By Nayland Gainsborough(2x) Constable (2x), The Belfrey PGA (2x), Forest of Arden - Arden Course, Woodhall Spa (2x), London Golf Club International Course, Gog Magog Old Course (2x) & Wandlebury (2x), Wensum Valley Golf Club, Sprowston Manor, Menzies Cambridge (6x), Links Newmarket (2x), Colne Valley, Cambridge Meridian, Braintree, Bedford Golf Club, Thetford Golf Club, and the highlights of the year...Sunningdale Old Course, Woburn Marquess (2x) & Duke courses.

Now for next year I WILL some how, someway play Notts and Sherwood Forest Golf Clubs, and I'd like another round at The Grove as well. Those I can do by myself if necessary...I'm not shy about bagging a course on my own. My group is mumbling about Scotland...we'll see if they actually pull the trigger. If that were to happen (St. Andrews was the mentioned target area)...I would like to play the Old Course, Castle Course, and Kingsbarn for sure, beyond that I don't know except for...Troon, Turnberry, Gleaneagles...probably a pipe dream.

[compton1977]

[sup]I think that The Grove has a special deal on over the winter, i read somewhere 70 quid for the day or something like that. That is looking quite tempting to me, though winter is looking pretty bleak in the UK![/sup]

[67VIP]

[quote name='compton1977' timestamp='1354893552' post='6032667']
[sup]I think that The Grove has a special deal on over the winter, i read somewhere 70 quid for the day or something like that. That is looking quite tempting to me, though winter is looking pretty bleak in the UK![/sup]
[/quote]

I called them on Tues morning and the only deal they had is 95 pounds. Their website now states that "special offers" are from April to Oct. They are not even offering Open Fairways members any breaks, business must be booming.

Can add a few more visits to the ever growing list of courses played: The Bedford Golf Club, The Essex Golf and Country Club, and Stowmarket Golf Club. Bedford was a nice/challenging track, just alittle rough around the edges conditioning wise. Essex was the same but in better condition, although soaking wet the day we went. Stowmarket was a much shorter track but the hills made up for that, and it was easily the most picturesque and best conditioned of the three (I was amazed they had been able to cut the grass on the fairways and greens), but again so much water on parts of the course you could almost water ski. I am so ready for the rain, clouds, and cold tempatures to give way to spring...but winter hasn't really started yet so I hear.

[Sean25rp]

Weather has been shocking here I agree! This is the first Xmas in a while that I've had a decent amount of time off for and I've not been able to get out on the course much due to closure/conditions. Gutting. Have been down the range a fair bit though but it's not the same. We need to get through Jan and Feb before we see much improvement I'm afraid. March is usually pretty good for golf though. Hope you continue to tick the courses off the list!

[67VIP]

Well...I finally am going to Scotland! My group is heading to St Andrews in early May and the plan is to play 36 holes a day for three days plus one extra round for me on the day of arrival. We're getting the three day ticket for unlimited golf and are anticipating playing the new course, juilee course, castle course and hopefully the old course if the ballot works in our favor. We are also going to attempt to play Gleneagles while we are there since it's only 45 miles away (either King's or Centennary). I might try and sneak on Carnoustie the first day if weather is favorable and there is an opening, if not I may head over to Kingsbarn...but I really don't want to pay that greenfee. If luck smiles on us and we can get our tee times/courses lined up I'd really like to spend the day at the castle course and play it 2x. Everyone I've talked to says it's phenomenal. We'll see how it all plays out in just about a month.

[67VIP]

Knocked off another bucket list course today, went and visited Stoke Park to play the Colt-Alison course. I was able to get on for 75 pds, which is way over priced. I can't imagine anybody actually paying the 150 pds they ask for...it is not worth it by any stretch. The greens were good, especially considering the harsh winter we had, fairways not bad, but everything else was in poor shape. Some holes are interesting, some are quite bland. Overall I'd say it was a major disappointment. How it's rated in the UK's top 100 I'll never know. I've played courses that aren't ranked that were more interesting and less expensive. They do seem to have a lot of play, I've been on the property twice and both times there was a large crowd waiting to tee off...must have a pretty good size membership. I played fairly well, high winds and all, and managed to come up with a 79...even impressed myself with a 250 yard - three iron tee shot on 17 (I love MacGregor...forgot how pure forged VIPs are). I also went and played Abridge Golf Club in Essex this past Friday, that was a beast. Tough walk and tough weather conditions, but the course was a lot of fun...our group was even dumb enough to play it from the whites at 6700 yards in 30 mph winds and below 40 degree temps. I'd like to try that one again under better weather conditions.

[yorkshiregolf]

If you get chance to come to Yorkshire, try;
Ganton - my favourite course of all time. Past host of Ryder cup and walker cup

Moortown in Leeds -another Ryder cup venue

Moor allerton in Leeds

Fulford in York - pretty good but gets repetitive

[67VIP]

I just came back from St Andrews today. Spent the past 4 days there and it was a mixture of fun and colossal waste of money! Played the Eden Course on arrival and it was a lovely track and shot a very nice 77. Next morning played the Jubilee Course and a combination of poor play, dislike of the course, and a pulled muscle in my chest around my rib cage trashed the morning. Went to Gleneagles in the afternoon to play the PGA Centenary Course and had to walk off the course after nine holes because I couldn't swing the club, much less hit the ball. Gleneagles is gorgeous, but should have played The Kings Course. PGA was an Americanized course in the same vein as the 2010 at Celtic Manor. Found out the same afternoon I got on the ballot for the Old Course Friday at 1650...after the day's disaster I was in no mood to spend another 150 pounds to chip and putt my way around, so gave my spot to another member of our group...he had the time of his life. Went back out on Friday morning to The Castle Course and it was incredibly beautiful...but the greens are just stupid. Still, managed to play all the way around and enjoyed it immensely despite shooting 91...way too many putts and some bad shots here and there due to rib injury. Played the New Course in the afternoon and it was lovely, really enjoyed that course as well and played better in some rough weather at the start/finish of the round. However; I dinged the rib muscle further with two shots from heavy rough on 16. Did not play Saturday morning as our group was heading to Carnoustie to play the championship course in the afternoon. I made it thru the second hole before having to walk off again...could not effectively swing the club. All our golf was prepaid, so I absolutely flushed 85 pounds down the toilet at Gleneagles and another 150 at Carnoustie. I had planned this trip months ago and saved money for six months for this trip and the whole thing went completely in the crapper. I am now the proud owner of the most expensive set of yardage books and logo balls in the history of the game. I really wanted to toss every souvenir out the window on the way home but decided to keep it as a reminder not to do something like this again. Gleneagles, Carnoustie, both required full payment at the time of booking and if you can't play you are SOL. I'm disappointed I couldn't play, but I'm very angry about the money. It was ridiculous to try and play 7 rounds in 3.5 days, plus Carnoustie was supposed to be an alternate if the Old Course ballot didn't work out...but it got booked without prior discussion by our group and so I was on the hook. We didn't have time to do anything besides eat/golf/eat/golf/eat-drink. I would have liked to wander around St Andrews some but didn't work out...no time. If I were ever to go back (it would have to be mighty cold somewhere...) I would only play one round a day if I was going off site (including Castle Course), but I could comfortably play 36 holes for two days on the Eden/New/Old courses as they are easy to walk. Can't believe this turned out that bad...all I can think about is what a total waste of money the whole trip was.

[67VIP]

Well....now that I've calmed down a little and had time to reflect...plus had some assistance from a local pro who helped me get a full refund from Carnoustie, I've had a slight change of heart in regard to the above mentioned trip. The trip overall was fun, great group of guys, awesome food & atmosphere. We each had our own courses we either liked or disliked, but everyone had more likes than dislikes. I will say that I'd do the trip again but plan it much differently. The three day ticket is a fantastic deal at St Andrews Links and that's a no brainer for a return engagement, I'd also go back to Gleneagles for the Kings Course (major oversight on my part as Gleneagles was my bright idea in the first place), and I'd love to play Kingsbarn. Whether I'd pony up for the Old Course would probably be a spur of the moment decision. Carnoustie I'd probably pass on as I wasn't interested in the course to start with. I'd definitely like a couple of shots at The Castle Course and could easily play the Eden and New courses all day long, plus play The Dukes once. But my biggest regret was not having time to walk around St Andrews and visit some shops and restaurants in a leisurely manner...have to fix that next time.

[67VIP]

Went back and played Sunningdale Golf Club yesterday...ran around the New Course in three hours flat, shot 77, and had the course all to myself! Combined with the beautiful weather yesterday how cool was that? I think I liked the New Course better than the Old, just seemed like a better routing and the par 3s were even more spectacular. Plus, even though the course is a 6400 yard par 70 there are three par 5s and five par 3s! made for a great round on a very interesting/historic course.

[67VIP]

I think I have found a course that's harder to walk than the 2010 at Celtic Manor. Played Brocket Hall Palmerston Course yesterday afternoon and i have to be a foot shorter. 7000+ yards long, incredibly hilly, and 8 holes with between 100-300 yards from the green to the next tee...I'm so stiff and sore I can hardly walk. Gorgeous track and it was fun, but the walk just wore me out and my game went in the toilet on the back nine. I did shoot 39 on the front from a mixture of white/yellow tees, and hit a 6 iron stiff on the 204 yard par three 14th. I may not be able to play again until I figure out where my legs have gone.

[67VIP]

Finally went back to The Grove for a second visit this past Sunday and what a day! The golf course is in fantastic condition and my playing partner and I had a great round of golf. i shot 80 which was 11 shots better than the first visit, but the maddening thing is I cheated myself out of two birdies on par fives by chipping instead of putting from just off the green...which would have given me a 78. i guess I should learn to go with my instincts. Add to it Philly Mick bagged the Open at Muirfield and it truly made for a great day of golf.

[67VIP]

Went and played The Hertfordshire Golf Club near Broxbourne last Saturday, turned out to be a pretty neat course. 6250 yard/Par 70 Jack Nicklaus II design with a little bit of roll, a handfull of tee shots thru narrow tree lined chutes, reasonably generous fairways/fantastic greens, and at the end of the day a score card that said 74 with three 3 putts, two duffed chips, and a double bogey on the 185 yard par three 18th after dumping my tee shot in the water. Weather was fairly decent too, but did have a pretty good breeze...close to 25 mph at one point. Playing a practice round at Braintree Golf Club on Sunday in preparation for an upcoming match there, hopefully will play better than last year. That was not a good day, my swing looked like an orangatang in a bar fight, inside a phone booth. Started playing blades again early this year and it has really helped my ball striking...thank you MacGregor for creating the VIP 1025m.

[slalomdude]

I know at the clubs i was a member at, playing from the white tees would get me in big trouble even as a member. White tees are not really supposed to be another set of tees , like in the US. They are the competition tees and only to be used on competition day. They may only be 5 yards further back, but limited use ensures they are kept in good condition for comps.

[67VIP]

That doesn't really make sense to me. Most tee boxes don't get a lot of wear and tear except for the par three boxes, and most of the courses I've played over here are VERY short compared to the courses in the U.S. A lot of these courses are 5900 to 6100 yards from the yellow tees...in the U.S. that falls within the distance for the ladies/seniors tees...I'm not going to pay money to play any course from that distance. Where I come from if you pay the green fee, you play from what ever tee box you want as long as you maintain pace of play. Most golfers will move up a set of tees if they are having a lot of difficulty playing from too far back on a big course...me included. I did that at the 2010 at Celtic Manor and a few other places. The guys I got paired with wanted to play from 7100 yards in 35 mph winds...I hung on for six holes and told them I was moving up to the 6600 yard tees and had no problems from there in, even drove the green on the 15th(?).

I am a 5 handicapper, can still hit the ball 260-280 off the tee, and reach most of the par 5s I see over here in two...my problems are around the green. I have difficulty putting on courses with very fast greens, and my chipping and sand play can be spotty at times. Every three foot putt I miss or duffed pitch/chip counts the same as a 280 yard drive...useless if you don't finish off the hole properly. I think Sunningdale and St Andrews have the best way of handling the tee/handicap issue...the starter at Sunningdale asks you your handicap and in my case I was told I could play the whites...which I jumped on. Didn't ask to see my handicap card, which I brought with me just in case--shot 81 on the Old Course and 77 on the New Course. At St Andrews they don't even ask except at the Castle Course and Old Course. Play from wherever as long as you maintain pace of play.

I intensely dislike being told what tees I can play AFTER my money has been taken...or by a club member who appears out of thin air on the 8th tee or so when I'm playing well and seemingly for his own amusement tells me I have to move up. But my personal favorite is the old guy in his 60s at Bury St Edmunds who on my sixth visit told me I had to play from tees of the day (yellow) as we were waiting to tee off on the first...never mind that I had played the previous five times from the whites. I'm 50 and reached the 510 yard par five first hole in two (yeah he pissed me off), then watched this old dude playing from the same tees as me take three shots to reach every par four on the front nine. He couldn't hit it more than 190 yards off the tee, but he sure made an effort to impact my round. I was sorely tempted to tell him to move up to the ladies tees but managed to keep my mouth shut. I am proud of myself that I have behaved in a civilized manner, even when faced with boorish/insulting behavior from strangers at a few courses over here...but that is not the norm. 99.9% of the people I've met on the courses in the UK couldn't have been any nicer or welcoming (Royal Cromer and Woburn come immediately to mind). If that incident had happened in the US I'd have told that guy to do something anatomically impossible, or if I was really in a devilish mood would have starting landing my drives consistently 20 yards behind him on every hole as well as hitting the greens as soon as he cleared the greenside bunkers. I learned a few tricks as a teenager at my father's club...back then the older members of the club HATED to let anybody play through, much less a kid playing by himself (singles have no status on the course young man!). I also learned how to tell the difference between a sandbagger and a guy with a vanity handicap, too.

The problem with golf in the US is pace of play and excessive expense. Too many courses charge way too much money for a typical round and it takes entirely too long to play. My average round over here is about three hours; a shade over two on my home course (when by myself) and about three to three and a half on the UK courses I visit. The worst thing that ever happened to US golf is the invention of the golf cart (buggie). There was no such thing as a four hour round until that thing came along. I also suspect the real reason for the Tee It Forward movement in the US is pace of play. Entirely too many four hour plus rounds.

[jay65]

[quote name='67VIP' timestamp='1379407950' post='7864261']
That doesn't really make sense to me. Most tee boxes don't get a lot of wear and tear except for the par three boxes, and most of the courses I've played over here are VERY short compared to the courses in the U.S. A lot of these courses are 5900 to 6100 yards from the yellow tees...in the U.S. that falls within the distance for the ladies/seniors tees...I'm not going to pay money to play any course from that distance. Where I come from if you pay the green fee, you play from what ever tee box you want as long as you maintain pace of play. Most golfers will move up a set of tees if they are having a lot of difficulty playing from too far back on a big course...me included. I did that at the 2010 at Celtic Manor and a few other places. The guys I got paired with wanted to play from 7100 yards in 35 mph winds...I hung on for six holes and told them I was moving up to the 6600 yard tees and had no problems from there in, even drove the green on the 15th(?).

I am a 5 handicapper, can still hit the ball 260-280 off the tee, and reach most of the par 5s I see over here in two...my problems are around the green. I have difficulty putting on courses with very fast greens, and my chipping and sand play can be spotty at times. Every three foot putt I miss or duffed pitch/chip counts the same as a 280 yard drive...useless if you don't finish off the hole properly. I think Sunningdale and St Andrews have the best way of handling the tee/handicap issue...the starter at Sunningdale asks you your handicap and in my case I was told I could play the whites...which I jumped on. Didn't ask to see my handicap card, which I brought with me just in case--shot 81 on the Old Course and 77 on the New Course. At St Andrews they don't even ask except at the Castle Course and Old Course. Play from wherever as long as you maintain pace of play.

I intensely dislike being told what tees I can play AFTER my money has been taken...or by a club member who appears out of thin air on the 8th tee or so when I'm playing well and seemingly for his own amusement tells me I have to move up. But my personal favorite is the old guy in his 60s at Bury St Edmunds who on my sixth visit told me I had to play from tees of the day (yellow) as we were waiting to tee off on the first...never mind that I had played the previous five times from the whites. I'm 50 and reached the 510 yard par five first hole in two (yeah he pissed me off), then watched this old dude playing from the same tees as me take three shots to reach every par four on the front nine. He couldn't hit it more than 190 yards off the tee, but he sure made an effort to impact my round. I was sorely tempted to tell him to move up to the ladies tees but managed to keep my mouth shut. I am proud of myself that I have behaved in a civilized manner, even when faced with boorish/insulting behavior from strangers at a few courses over here...but that is not the norm. 99.9% of the people I've met on the courses in the UK couldn't have been any nicer or welcoming (Royal Cromer and Woburn come immediately to mind). If that incident had happened in the US I'd have told that guy to do something anatomically impossible, or if I was really in a devilish mood would have starting landing my drives consistently 20 yards behind him on every hole as well as hitting the greens as soon as he cleared the greenside bunkers. I learned a few tricks as a teenager at my father's club...back then the older members of the club HATED to let anybody play through, much less a kid playing by himself (singles have no status on the course young man!). I also learned how to tell the difference between a sandbagger and a guy with a vanity handicap, too.

The problem with golf in the US is pace of play and excessive expense. Too many courses charge way too much money for a typical round and it takes entirely too long to play. My average round over here is about three hours; a shade over two on my home course (when by myself) and about three to three and a half on the UK courses I visit. The worst thing that ever happened to US golf is the invention of the golf cart (buggie). There was no such thing as a four hour round until that thing came along. I also suspect the real reason for the Tee It Forward movement in the US is pace of play. Entirely too many four hour plus rounds.
[/quote]

Have you been up to Ayrshire, Scotland yet, during your time over here?

[67VIP]

[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1379412978' post='7864321']
[quote name='67VIP' timestamp='1379407950' post='7864261']
That doesn't really make sense to me. Most tee boxes don't get a lot of wear and tear except for the par three boxes, and most of the courses I've played over here are VERY short compared to the courses in the U.S. A lot of these courses are 5900 to 6100 yards from the yellow tees...in the U.S. that falls within the distance for the ladies/seniors tees...I'm not going to pay money to play any course from that distance. Where I come from if you pay the green fee, you play from what ever tee box you want as long as you maintain pace of play. Most golfers will move up a set of tees if they are having a lot of difficulty playing from too far back on a big course...me included. I did that at the 2010 at Celtic Manor and a few other places. The guys I got paired with wanted to play from 7100 yards in 35 mph winds...I hung on for six holes and told them I was moving up to the 6600 yard tees and had no problems from there in, even drove the green on the 15th(?).

I am a 5 handicapper, can still hit the ball 260-280 off the tee, and reach most of the par 5s I see over here in two...my problems are around the green. I have difficulty putting on courses with very fast greens, and my chipping and sand play can be spotty at times. Every three foot putt I miss or duffed pitch/chip counts the same as a 280 yard drive...useless if you don't finish off the hole properly. I think Sunningdale and St Andrews have the best way of handling the tee/handicap issue...the starter at Sunningdale asks you your handicap and in my case I was told I could play the whites...which I jumped on. Didn't ask to see my handicap card, which I brought with me just in case--shot 81 on the Old Course and 77 on the New Course. At St Andrews they don't even ask except at the Castle Course and Old Course. Play from wherever as long as you maintain pace of play.

I intensely dislike being told what tees I can play AFTER my money has been taken...or by a club member who appears out of thin air on the 8th tee or so when I'm playing well and seemingly for his own amusement tells me I have to move up. But my personal favorite is the old guy in his 60s at Bury St Edmunds who on my sixth visit told me I had to play from tees of the day (yellow) as we were waiting to tee off on the first...never mind that I had played the previous five times from the whites. I'm 50 and reached the 510 yard par five first hole in two (yeah he pissed me off), then watched this old dude playing from the same tees as me take three shots to reach every par four on the front nine. He couldn't hit it more than 190 yards off the tee, but he sure made an effort to impact my round. I was sorely tempted to tell him to move up to the ladies tees but managed to keep my mouth shut. I am proud of myself that I have behaved in a civilized manner, even when faced with boorish/insulting behavior from strangers at a few courses over here...but that is not the norm. 99.9% of the people I've met on the courses in the UK couldn't have been any nicer or welcoming (Royal Cromer and Woburn come immediately to mind). If that incident had happened in the US I'd have told that guy to do something anatomically impossible, or if I was really in a devilish mood would have starting landing my drives consistently 20 yards behind him on every hole as well as hitting the greens as soon as he cleared the greenside bunkers. I learned a few tricks as a teenager at my father's club...back then the older members of the club HATED to let anybody play through, much less a kid playing by himself (singles have no status on the course young man!). I also learned how to tell the difference between a sandbagger and a guy with a vanity handicap, too.

The problem with golf in the US is pace of play and excessive expense. Too many courses charge way too much money for a typical round and it takes entirely too long to play. My average round over here is about three hours; a shade over two on my home course (when by myself) and about three to three and a half on the UK courses I visit. The worst thing that ever happened to US golf is the invention of the golf cart (buggie). There was no such thing as a four hour round until that thing came along. I also suspect the real reason for the Tee It Forward movement in the US is pace of play. Entirely too many four hour plus rounds.
[/quote]

Have you been up to Ayrshire, Scotland yet, during your time over here?
[/quote]

Is that where Turnberry is? I went to St Andrews in May for my first visit to Scotland and can't wait to go back! One of my golf buddies went to Turnberry recently and said it was the best of the Scottish courses he's seen so far...and this dude has played most if not all of the Open rota courses this year. Wish I could do that. I'm going back to Woburn for the Dukes and Marquess on the 18th of Oct with breakfast and lunch thrown in...looking forward to that very much as Woburn is one of my personal favorites over here. They also have Wells Bombadier on tap so I'll be able to enjoy a pint or three of Bedford's finest while I'm there.

[jay65]

[quote name='67VIP' timestamp='1379449556' post='7867463']
[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1379412978' post='7864321']
[quote name='67VIP' timestamp='1379407950' post='7864261']
That doesn't really make sense to me. Most tee boxes don't get a lot of wear and tear except for the par three boxes, and most of the courses I've played over here are VERY short compared to the courses in the U.S. A lot of these courses are 5900 to 6100 yards from the yellow tees...in the U.S. that falls within the distance for the ladies/seniors tees...I'm not going to pay money to play any course from that distance. Where I come from if you pay the green fee, you play from what ever tee box you want as long as you maintain pace of play. Most golfers will move up a set of tees if they are having a lot of difficulty playing from too far back on a big course...me included. I did that at the 2010 at Celtic Manor and a few other places. The guys I got paired with wanted to play from 7100 yards in 35 mph winds...I hung on for six holes and told them I was moving up to the 6600 yard tees and had no problems from there in, even drove the green on the 15th(?).

I am a 5 handicapper, can still hit the ball 260-280 off the tee, and reach most of the par 5s I see over here in two...my problems are around the green. I have difficulty putting on courses with very fast greens, and my chipping and sand play can be spotty at times. Every three foot putt I miss or duffed pitch/chip counts the same as a 280 yard drive...useless if you don't finish off the hole properly. I think Sunningdale and St Andrews have the best way of handling the tee/handicap issue...the starter at Sunningdale asks you your handicap and in my case I was told I could play the whites...which I jumped on. Didn't ask to see my handicap card, which I brought with me just in case--shot 81 on the Old Course and 77 on the New Course. At St Andrews they don't even ask except at the Castle Course and Old Course. Play from wherever as long as you maintain pace of play.

I intensely dislike being told what tees I can play AFTER my money has been taken...or by a club member who appears out of thin air on the 8th tee or so when I'm playing well and seemingly for his own amusement tells me I have to move up. But my personal favorite is the old guy in his 60s at Bury St Edmunds who on my sixth visit told me I had to play from tees of the day (yellow) as we were waiting to tee off on the first...never mind that I had played the previous five times from the whites. I'm 50 and reached the 510 yard par five first hole in two (yeah he pissed me off), then watched this old dude playing from the same tees as me take three shots to reach every par four on the front nine. He couldn't hit it more than 190 yards off the tee, but he sure made an effort to impact my round. I was sorely tempted to tell him to move up to the ladies tees but managed to keep my mouth shut. I am proud of myself that I have behaved in a civilized manner, even when faced with boorish/insulting behavior from strangers at a few courses over here...but that is not the norm. 99.9% of the people I've met on the courses in the UK couldn't have been any nicer or welcoming (Royal Cromer and Woburn come immediately to mind). If that incident had happened in the US I'd have told that guy to do something anatomically impossible, or if I was really in a devilish mood would have starting landing my drives consistently 20 yards behind him on every hole as well as hitting the greens as soon as he cleared the greenside bunkers. I learned a few tricks as a teenager at my father's club...back then the older members of the club HATED to let anybody play through, much less a kid playing by himself (singles have no status on the course young man!). I also learned how to tell the difference between a sandbagger and a guy with a vanity handicap, too.

The problem with golf in the US is pace of play and excessive expense. Too many courses charge way too much money for a typical round and it takes entirely too long to play. My average round over here is about three hours; a shade over two on my home course (when by myself) and about three to three and a half on the UK courses I visit. The worst thing that ever happened to US golf is the invention of the golf cart (buggie). There was no such thing as a four hour round until that thing came along. I also suspect the real reason for the Tee It Forward movement in the US is pace of play. Entirely too many four hour plus rounds.
[/quote]

Have you been up to Ayrshire, Scotland yet, during your time over here?
[/quote]

Is that where Turnberry is? I went to St Andrews in May for my first visit to Scotland and can't wait to go back! One of my golf buddies went to Turnberry recently and said it was the best of the Scottish courses he's seen so far...and this dude has played most if not all of the Open rota courses this year. Wish I could do that. I'm going back to Woburn for the Dukes and Marquess on the 18th of Oct with breakfast and lunch thrown in...looking forward to that very much as Woburn is one of my personal favorites over here. They also have Wells Bombadier on tap so I'll be able to enjoy a pint or three of Bedford's finest while I'm there.
[/quote]

Yes Turnberry is South Ayrshire. It's really funny how different peoples perspectives are so polarizing. I've played Turnberry 3 times, and each time I've been underwhelmed. Sure, it's got 6 really good holes between 6 and 12, but in my opinion, the rest is pretty mediochre, and the condition of the course on one of the occasions I played there was nothing short of scandalous, huge divots all over the fairways, Greens were slow and bumpy in comparison to many other Links Courses in the area. Sure the Green staff were doing their level best to sort the fairways out, but its a thankless task and almost impossible to conquer, when so many holiday golfers play there. For me, it was like a cattle market, not a great experience at all. Western Gailes is pretty cool Golf Course, Prestwick is always fun, and Kilmarnock Barassie is a really solid Golf Course. But the most underrated Course I know up there is Dundonald Links. Its in far better condition than Turnberry, the fairways are in great nick, Greens are true and quick, and the Green complexes offer great design and a real Test. If you ever get the chance to go up there, don't miss out on playing Dundonald, it would certainly be top of my personal list.

[67VIP]

I can understand that, Gleneagles PGA Centennary was not in that great of shape when we played it in May, I really messed up not getting our group on the King's course instead. Add to it that it seemed an awful lot like the 2010 at Celtic Manor...I don't think the staff there is all that impressed with it either. I saw Panmure Golf Club on the way over to Carnoustie and wish we had time to go play it, especially now that I've finished reading Ben Hogan's biography and found that's where he practiced prior to the Open at Carnoustie in 1953. So much history over here, and the courses are not cookie cutter repetitive by any means. If I won the lottery I'd be the most useless human being on the planet...I'd spend the rest of my life playing one course after the other from one end of the Uk to the other.

[jay65]

[quote name='67VIP' timestamp='1379505668' post='7870471']
I can understand that, Gleneagles PGA Centennary was not in that great of shape when we played it in May, I really messed up not getting our group on the King's course instead. Add to it that it seemed an awful lot like the 2010 at Celtic Manor...I don't think the staff there is all that impressed with it either. I saw Panmure Golf Club on the way over to Carnoustie and wish we had time to go play it, especially now that I've finished reading Ben Hogan's biography and found that's where he practiced prior to the Open at Carnoustie in 1953. So much history over here, and the courses are not cookie cutter repetitive by any means. If I won the lottery I'd be the most useless human being on the planet...I'd spend the rest of my life playing one course after the other from one end of the Uk to the other.
[/quote]

How very true! Panmure is a cracking track. I'd heard some stories about the Courses at Gleneagles too actually. And like you, although I live in Scotland, I would still like to have more time to play some fantastic tracks up here. I could spend the rest of my life just going around playing all that the game has to offer in Scotland alone. Hope you continue to sample some of the Courses the UK has to offer and that you have more positive experiences, its always nice to hear.

[67VIP]

Played Braintree Golf Club again a week ago getting ready for our match there this coming Saturday. Short, but tough golf course...6200 yard par 70. Front nine is a par 34 with no par 5s, and not a single par 4 over 395 yards...yet position off the tee is EVERYTHING. Small, fast greens don't make it any easier, either. Shot 81 with consecutive birdies on the back nine, but the damage was done on the front...8 over with too many missed greens, three putts, & no par saves. Tried to save it on the back but couldn't get it done.

Went Saturday to what I think is a relatively new course in Hertfordshire called Chesfield Downs Golf Club and got on for only 20 quid. Great 6600 yard par 71 track in excellent condition with fantastic greens. Thank goodness I brought two putters as the greens were faster than I expected but I seemed to have figured it out on the third hole after I went to the lighter flat stick. Shot 39/38 for a 77 with two birdies and had a great conversation with the two twenty-something guys I got paired with...British girls in general and Nigella Lawson in particular. Can't repeat any of it, but it was hilarious.

[attachment=1887027:nigella-lawson-2013.jpg]

[67VIP]

Played two matches in the past couple of weeks; went to Braintree Golf Club for their International Day match, and had our second match of the year against Links Golf Club in Newmarket...blessed with great weather and pairings on both days. Standing in the parking lot at Braintree I honestly was not sure I was going to have 11 golfers show up for the match, I had a great deal of difficulty getting a full compliment of players as most of our primaries were at another match...fortunately for me they did and had a great time as well. I don't know what I would have said to Braintree's captain if I wound up with a team of six or so players and a handfull of no-shows...having everybody show up on time seemed to relax me and as acting captain (our club doesn't actually have one) I was paired with the other team's captains and as all were a bit older than me I was able to just finally chill and enjoy the round. That resulted in one of the best ball striking and putting rounds I've had in some time...a 76 with a 35 on the front nine. if I hadn't gotten alittle greedy on the back nine and went for the driver a few times I would have gone much lower--that's one course where you can leave the driver at home and throw in another hybrid/iron/wedge.

Links Golf Club in Newmarket is a more formal match we play, and usually we have people standing in line to try and get in; however, this time I had people decline or continually drop out until the night before the match...I was about to pull my hair out as this had turned into a classic case of the three guys named everybody, somebody, and nobody. Everybody thought somebody was putting this together, when in fact absolutely nobody did until a week before the match--when I stepped in...again...you'd have thought I learned something from the week before. We all arrived at the club, checked in, paired up...but I was so wound up if you stuck me with a straight pin I'd have probably landed on the moon. I grabbed a damn big bottle of Old Speckled Hen, not knowing it had more alcohol in it than my normal fare, to try and wind down before we started...not a good idea--I can drink or play golf, can't do both. Needless to say my equilibrium was a tad off as I sprayed the ball all over the place on five of the first seven holes, fortunately this was match play and my partner kept us in until I woke up/sobered up about the time we neared the turn and I came home in a crisp 37 with embarrassment averted. The thing of it was; I had shot 77 the day before in a practice round on this very same course in 25 mph winds, now on a day with ideal conditions I blow up on the front nine and the only thing that saved me was pride and a clear head on the back. I love this game...it giveth and it taketh in somewhat measured doses...most of the time anyways.

[67VIP]

Finally got on at the Notts Golf Club near Mansfield. Great course, but had to be the longest/wettest slog of my 35 year golf habit. Greens were unbelievably dry and fast considering it had rained for five days straight. The course is similar to Woodhall Spa, Sunningdale, and Woodbridge but considerably longer at 7300 yards. It also has more elevation and roll to it as well. A little too far away to make as a regular stop, but it'd be a great place to play on the way to St Andrews, etc. Went and looked at Sherwood Forest Golf Club while I was there and seemed like an equally enjoyable course too, just wish I had the time and energy to play have played it.