Squish n turn

[megaprimatus]

Flopper,

We should be careful not to go to explore the golf swing too far on our own without a guide. We might get lost. We could easily become the proverbial blind leading the blind. A little exploration? Well, Heck. Nothing wrong that.

Here are some of my recent thoughts on pendulums and tempo. A pendulum of a certain length has a certain tempo. The arc length of this pendulum can be longer or shorter, but the tempo remains the same. The Grand Master mentions this.

However. Pendulums of different lengths do have different tempos.

The question becomes, does the pendulum swing of a person's sacrum override the potential tempo difference when considering different club lengths?

[Squish]

[quote name='megaprimatus' timestamp='1336103101' post='4845226']


As you may have read, Squish has got me thinking about the existence of the lead angle inherent in a golf club. Odd, but there seems to be little mention of it anywhere. Mike Austin discusses the concept, but inquiring minds remain interested. I started sniffing around the internet looking for clubmaking literature. Clubmakers seem very aware of your second cousin, J. Victor East. Apparently, Bobby Jones trusted him to make some of his more important clubs.

[/quote]
Might want to try lean angle.
This guy knows about it.

Most every golfer I have ever met wants to improve or play better golf. Yeah they may be duffers, golfers with handicaps, but they still long to improve their golf swing, shoot lower scores and reduce their handicap. One goal we all have is to hit the ball crisply, making pure contact allows for better ball flight and distance control.

Some may choose to take golf lessons from a pro but more and more ambitious golfers are turning to the Internet with its wealth of resources to gather the information they need to improve their golf game. Articles like this, e-books and videos can all be found here on the net to help the struggling golfer played better golf.

One key step in the learning process is to understand how the club design dictates how we should swing the club. Proper use of the golf club will make a huge improvement in your ball striking without having to change your grip, address position or swing.

From the driver to the putter every club has these elements. To play better golf needs to fully understand how to apply these elements while using the golf club. So much of the frustration high handicappers experience comes from working against these design elements rather than with them.

To use the club effectively requires a good understanding of the key design elements built into every club by the engineers. These elements are shaft lean, lie angle and center of gravity.

Let's look at shaft lean now.

[b][u]Shaft Lean[/u][/b]

This may be the most important design element of the three. Clubs are built so that the shaft leans forward (toward the target) when properly soled.

Experiment by placing a short iron on a table or counter top. Notice that when the sole is placed flat on the surface of the table that the shaft leans forward past the clubhead.

That angle is the secret to hit crisp, clean golf shots. When the club impacts the ball with the shaft at that angle it creates maximum compression of the golf ball creating perfect launch characteristics of spin rate and launch angle.

You'll feel that perfect impact in your hands, hear that familiar click and then watch the classic ball flight. The pure golf shot is such a thing of beauty, don't you agree?

Next, while still using that club on the table, lean the shaft back until it is vertical. Take special notice of the leading edge of the clubhead. It has lifted up off the table hasn't it? Now the clubface is at a flatter angle to the table. How will those changes affect your golf shot? With the leading edge lifted up like that it becomes easier to blade the ball at impact. The flatter angle with throw the ball higher in the air than designed.

Now move the shaft back a bit further. Now it is leaning away from the target, the leading edge is sticking way up off the table and the clubface has flattened out even more. This exaggerates the affects mentioned with a vertical shaft.

Here is the shocker for you. Most high handicappers strike the ball with the shaft leaning backwards rather than forward as it was designed! Yes, that last position on the table top I showed you is the most common found in amateurs.

The real secret to hitting crisp, clean golf shots is to strike the ball with the shaft leaning forward at impact. This promotes the all important descending blow required to produce those perfect, pure golf shots.

Apply this new knowledge to your golf swing and watch how fast you go from duffer to player.


Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/4078353

[Squish]

Again, but it is more precise than that.

[attachment=1149128:Untitled1.png]

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='megaprimatus' timestamp='1336135024' post='4846572']
Flopper,

We should be careful not to go to explore the golf swing too far on our own without a guide. We might get lost. We could easily become the proverbial blind leading the blind. A little exploration? Well, Heck. Nothing wrong that.

Here are some of my recent thoughts on pendulums and tempo. A pendulum of a certain length has a certain tempo. The arc length of this pendulum can be longer or shorter, but the tempo remains the same. The Grand Master mentions this.

However. Pendulums of different lengths do have different tempos.

The question becomes, does the pendulum swing of a person's sacrum override the potential tempo difference when considering different club lengths?
[/quote]

You can feel the difference when you practiced enough, it might not be seen on video.
Your able to take note of subtle differences which we call feel.
Motion trough space that belongs to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equilibrioception"]Equilibrioception[/url]ie timing and tempo.
The body isn't just the spine or the arms or hands, legs and knee and ankle joints also, every pro golfer has a proper sequence of release where the body moves trough each and every time in sequence, once they go outside that sequence they hit bad shots.
why practice tempo are to make sure your able to hit consistent golf shots.
if your able to do that you play good golf no matter the handicap.

Criteria I use are ball impact and ball flight with swing to target.
I am currently doing draw/fade and tempo within the pivot which still is work in progress. I find to much "technique" and technical facts will screw a motion up for most.

me hitting a 7i still not proper pivot but getting there.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoBdsFbiVU8[/media]

[Squish]

[quote name='flopper' timestamp='1336140237' post='4847118']


me hitting a 7i still not proper pivot but getting there.

[/quote]

Nice!,
Powerful.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='Squish' timestamp='1336141026' post='4847204']


Nice!,
Powerful.
[/quote]

Thx, went outside back yard close by, hit my PW 140y carry at 60 tempo for me.
cold and windy still snow here and there here. (Likely to be 150 during summer or so)
overall ball striking was better and pivot has improved, Sunday next range session.
2-3 weeks before courses opens here.(maybe more)
I am happy with the work I done after 5 months, feels that I am able to control where the ball ends up most of the time now. Never been this straight even with short pitches.

Thx for the foot set up also btw sq.

[Squish]

Cool,
A tiny setup adjustment can have a great effect.

[attachment=1149176:QL Crunch.png]

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='Squish' timestamp='1336144823' post='4847630']
Cool,
A tiny setup adjustment can have a great effect.

[attachment=1149176:QL Crunch.png]
[/quote]

Hopefully even better next time.
Found a better reference for the down swing pivot today which should improve stuff.

[vision541]

Hi Sir Squish.....shaft lean....terrific...something I have always known but never actually paid any attention, and I am sure that I have been increasing loft on most of my shots. This has been encouraged inadvertantly I believe by the concept of a single ball position which I have mostly adhered to. When I now set up with the lean edge in mind I feel like I am playing the ball way back from where I have usually played. But I have to keep in mind that the shaft is aligned off the left ear, as a constant. Do I have that right?quote name='Squish' timestamp='1336139758' post='4847086']


[attachment=1149128:Untitled1.png]
[/quote]

[vision541]

As I re-read my comment, I believe I should have said that my left hand is aligned off my left ear, not my clubshaft.

[vision541]

Hi again.....

just so inviting to be able to ask questions to you Sir....

have you posted anything on the short game....ie chipping, sand shots...if not...who is your go to guy....

[Squish]

[quote name='vision541' timestamp='1336151710' post='4848444']
Hi Sir Squish.....shaft lean....terrific...something I have always known but never actually paid any attention, and I am sure that I have been increasing loft on most of my shots. This has been encouraged inadvertantly I believe by the concept of a single ball position which I have mostly adhered to. When I now set up with the lean edge in mind I feel like I am playing the ball way back from where I have usually played. But I have to keep in mind that the shaft is aligned off the left ear, as a constant. Do I have that right?quote name='Squish' timestamp='1336139758' post='4847086']

[/quote]

Yes left ear or left eye.

Just index the left grip incrementally stronger going back.

[j victor west]

[quote name='megaprimatus' timestamp='1336103101' post='4845226']
[quote name='j victor west' timestamp='1335582448' post='4804146']
Hello Mr. Squish.

...I just read some of Haney's book. He said the first change Tiger accepted was the grip change to a more palmy "Moe Norman" one. If true, do you think he got the fatter grips? I agree the right trigger finger is wired directly to the brain. Thanks for taking so much time with this thread Mr. Squish. It seems the "sound" is the tale of the tape around here.
[/quote]

Mr. West,

As you may have read, Squish has got me thinking about the existence of the lead angle inherent in a golf club. Odd, but there seems to be little mention of it anywhere. Mike Austin discusses the concept, but inquiring minds remain interested. I started sniffing around the internet looking for clubmaking literature. Clubmakers seem very aware of your second cousin, J. Victor East. Apparently, Bobby Jones trusted him to make some of his more important clubs.

With a certain curiosity, I visited my local library in search of books written by your cousin. The library had a copy of East's book, "Better Golf in 5 Minutes." I started reading the book in search of additional mention of the lead angle. There was some reference regarding the different angles associated with golf clubs, but no discussion of the lead angle. I noticed the following pictures and thought about your recent comments concerning Moe Norman:
[/quote]

Thanks for those pics, Mr. Mega. Squish has always emphasized that the grip is the key. Your perfect swing can fall apart suddenly with grip anxiety. I've been sticking with the Moehold...real palmy and only shank when my minds elsewhere. Which leads to a hugely grateful nod to Sir Flopper. We can talk about the 12 levers, physics lessons and relative atmospheric conditions...as we have...but Flopper's observation of "3. awareness of what the body does as it moves trough space." is a gem. The hair on the back of my neck is still rigid.

Squish..the tutorial on equipment was wonderful. A circle within a circle within a circle can make you dizzy.

[megaprimatus]

[quote name='flopper' timestamp='1336142730' post='4847398']
Thx, went outside back yard close by, hit my PW 140y carry at 60 tempo for me.
[/quote]

Flopper,

I must admit, you've got style. Thanks for all the information and thoughts on tempo. Everyone appreciates your participation here. Just to be clear, when you mention "60 tempo," is this what you are referring to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHwt-IOQ1nE

[megaprimatus]

Mr. West,

 

According to the promotional text printed on the inside cover of "Better Golf in 5 Minutes," a premise of the book addresses "...how club design can help you to play better golf." J Victor East includes the following illustration deep within the pages.

 

[megaprimatus]

...After careful consideration and partial digestion of some of the information presented here by our honored host, I wonder if a small revision might be made to the illustration shared by your second cousin.

 

 

 

 

[Breeves85]

[quote name='flopper' timestamp='1336145397' post='4847698']
[quote name='Squish' timestamp='1336144823' post='4847630']
Cool,
A tiny setup adjustment can have a great effect.

[attachment=1149176:QL Crunch.png]
[/quote]

Hopefully even better next time.
Found a better reference for the down swing pivot today which should improve stuff.
[/quote]

Hey Robert, lookin good man. I am struggling with my draw and fade. How are you doing it? I couldn't do what DJ was saying do to draw or fade it.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='megaprimatus' timestamp='1336184652' post='4852040']


Flopper,

I must admit, you've got style. Thanks for all the information and thoughts on tempo. Everyone appreciates your participation here. Just to be clear, when you mention "60 tempo," is this what you are referring to?


[/quote]

Tempo is this,
make one swing at full swing with balance. Then make one all out loosing balance slightly. that is 100.
make a slower one so slow your body goes out of sync then name that slower tempo (x)
then speed up the sequence in the middle of those two (50).
Once your swing, you will find where your tempo is perfect at your current level, its like it clicks due to it feels to slow but the ball flies with [b][color="#FF0000"]good contact.[/color][/b]
so you try, 30, 40, 45, 60, 63, until you find one that works for you, whatever its called and number, its about sequence of events. (timing)
Tempo for you in other words is a internal feel or sensation where your body moves in sequence creating the timing for the event which is highly dependent on your skill level. yes, tempo will shift with clubs and also once your skill level increases.

[i]Its not rocket science, tempo is a internal feel for how your body moves in sequence to deliver a club head properly to a ball. [/i]

How important is tempo?
Its the key to distance control, tis the key to consistency, its so important but people dont practice it and then they hit all over the course. I spent 5 months practicing it daily.

[quote name='Breeves85' timestamp='1336194951' post='4852868']

Hey Robert, lookin good man. I am struggling with my draw and fade. How are you doing it? I couldn't do what DJ was saying do to draw or fade it.
[/quote]

My normal shot is a draw with irons.
Closed stance.
Hitting a fade I go inside out with the arms.(holding off)
(My feel)

suggestion,
setup, normally, do proper tempo and decide you will do a 4 yard draw with 7i.
Hit shots until your able to do it.
Once you start being able to hit that draw take note what your body does to do it.
Then, do the same for a 4 yard fade.
Once you start being able to hit that fade take note what your body does to do it.
Target, fade or draw and tempo.

To say and do and follow a instruction is not always the best bet, especially if you cant do it. Hit enough shots you will be able to do it by creating your own feel for such shots. If you cant do it, you lack feel. Building it will take some time. [you will likely adjust stuff when trying to hit that draw/fade until it happens]

[megaprimatus]

[quote name='j victor west' timestamp='1336171087' post='4850748']
...A circle within a circle within a circle can make you dizzy.
[/quote]

The third circle is where the devil lives.

[megaprimatus]

So,

Professor Squish,

let's mount up those pygmy ponies and go back to the land of mental floss - the curious state of Montana.

It has been established that the driver (and some fairway woods) have negative lead angles.

These clubs mostly belong in Persimmon County.

That's where they thrive.

On the other hand, typical irons have positive lead angles.

They mostly belong in Iron County.

So, I suppose, if one were to take a typical iron and place it in Persimmon County, it might look like this:

 

 

 

 

(Mmm… seems like a potential event where form might fight function.)

[megaprimatus]

Squish,

Have you ever seen a set of irons made like this?

 

[Squish]

Yes,

Hybrid irons.

Play the ball ahead, with the hands and butt of the club pointing at your zipper vs the hip.
Hands in iron county.
Also good off the fairway bunkers.


[attachment=1152444:hybrid irons.png]

[marte]

..."Hybrid irons.

Play the ball ahead, with the hands and butt of the club pointing at your zipper vs the hip."...

Squish...Is this how to play regular hybrids like Adams a7os 2, 3, 4, 5 hybrids? Been hitting mine off the heel a lot.

Thanks

[megaprimatus]

Yes,

 

Hybrid irons.

 

Play the ball ahead, with the hands and butt of the club pointing at your zipper vs the hip.

Hands in iron county.

Also good off the fairway bunkers.

 

 

Hybrid irons with negative lead angles, huh? Very interesting. I suppose that one could conclude that equipment design does indeed change over the years.

 

Squish, you last entry prompted me to carefully check a practice wedge bequeathed to me. The wedge appears to be a pitching wedge made by Northwestern. I placed the sole of the club flat on my desktop to study the lead angle. Check it out…

 

 

Makes me wonder what the rest of the set looks like?

[megaprimatus]

Zero camber on the sole. Dead flat.

 

[RBImGuy]

clubs had different loft and angle in the old days.
the manufacturer changed it so you as an amateur could believe you hit it longer than the guys.
Today you hit bazookas where you once used a 22mm rifle.

removing the lower body from the swing allowed a steeper approach than before which change the angle of the sole.
(not a good change)

[Squish]

[quote name='megaprimatus' timestamp='1336442828' post='4869362']
Makes me wonder what the rest of the set looks like?
[/quote]


Northwestern wedge, the clubhead would be in hands country.
Dead on line.

Another Northwestern offering.

[attachment=1153862:northwestern specialty club.jpg]

[Squish]

[quote name='marte' timestamp='1336413757' post='4866218']
..."Hybrid irons.

Play the ball ahead, with the hands and butt of the club pointing at your zipper vs the hip."...

Squish...Is this how to play regular hybrids like Adams a7os 2, 3, 4, 5 hybrids? Been hitting mine off the heel a lot.

Thanks
[/quote]

Hi marte,

Just sole it flat and play the hands just inside the left hip for all clubs.
Where the butt points will dictate opposite the ball/clubhead ahead or behind placement.
Thing is to keep the hands at a constant position in space.
Don't want to change the hands arm position from club to club,
as that will force one to change the timing of the swing.

You set the [b]timing[/b] for the swing via positioning the body members at address. Constant.
A good [b]balance[/b], a well positioned set up, will enable one to achieve a more efficient[b] tempo[/b] or speed.
Fast or slow, it must have a rhythm.

If you are hitting off the heel, it likely means you are off balance.
It means you are out of position/ timing at some point.
Flopper has the right idea in that you can find a sweet spot, where by increasing or decreasing tempo.

But my rule is, if one is a once a week or once a month player, they should favor playing
with the weight more to the heels for balance, that tipping point.
Draw the right kneecap in and back as you turn to the top, and the left in and back at the return, so you can get the
extension you need through impact.
The knees work toward each other, they come out only slightly, barely crossing the toe line if you are balanced dynamically through out the swing.

Like this, you can't hump or sway if you keep those tibia's vertical.
You can only turn and swing back through the ball. It allows one to maintain the forward inclination that was set at address.
The front to back sagittal balance, the rump vs the shoulders.
Jack Grout had Nicklaus roll his ankles to encourage a turn and a swing.

The feet and tibia's dictate where the knees and hips are positioned/ timed, throughout the swing.

[j victor west]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkTHwazAbTw&feature=related"]breaking glass[/url]

Somehow, I missed this until now. Long, but worth it. A prime example of squish n stand.

[megaprimatus]

[quote name='Squish' timestamp='1336474352' post='4870822']
[quote name='megaprimatus' timestamp='1336442828' post='4869362']
Makes me wonder what the rest of the set looks like?
[/quote]


Northwestern wedge, the clubhead would be in hands country.
Dead on line.

Another Northwestern offering.

[attachment=1153862:northwestern specialty club.jpg]
[/quote]



Cool specialty club. Interesting bidirectional functionality. Interesting also because the lead angle on this club must be zero. I sorta' like the design of both of these Northwestern clubs.

This whole design concept of lead angles remains interesting. I wonder… Do putters have lead angles of zero? I mean, I wonder if Bobby Locke's putter had a lead angle of zero?


[attachment=1157250:locke1.jpg]


[attachment=1157252:locke2.jpg]





[url="http://www.thegolfauction.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=3240"]http://www.thegolfau...aspx?lotid=3240[/url]