First time seeing my swing...

[EagleThr33]

First off, I'll apologize for the poor angles, quality, etc of these videos. I just used my phone and didn't have great places to set it.

 

Second of all, this is the first time I've ever seen video of my swing and I know it's not pretty. I really started playing more golf around 4 years ago, so it took a while before I saw more than the occasional snapshot mid swing from golf vacations. There are some things in the videos I knew I did, like being a little too quick with tempo and my big left knee bend/collapse on my back swing (I think this comes from my years of playing baseball). I knew that my alignment at setup tended to be a little right, but I didn't realize how much that was the case until I saw the videos.

 

So I know my swing is (MUCH) less than perfect, but I'd love to hear what the rest of you think or what my main focus points need to be for improvement.

 

 

Driver Swings:

 

Hyrbrid:

[EagleThr33]

2 more videos, that wouldn't embed in the first post...

8 Iron:
[color=#444444][size=2][left]http://youtu.be/iNYQzv8c9V4[/left][/size][/color]

[left]Wedge:[/left]
[color=#444444][size=2][left]http://youtu.be/d8fU-4OyLtU[/left][/size][/color]

[kellygreen]

You are being WAY too hard on yourself. I see far more RIGHT with your swing that I see wrong with it. (Granted the two videos in your first post didn't come through, and I'm only going off the two DTL vids in your second post). I'm not suprised that you were a former baseball player, because you are clearly a good athlete...and frankly your swing looks better than the first time this former college baseball player saw his swing on video some 15 years ago.

Here are the problems I see.

1. The first part of your backswing is a bit too flat, and too much "inside". IOW, you are swinging too much AROUND your body, and then lifting your arms up to set the club up on plane. A VERY common problem among new players, and especially those who have played baseball.

2. Your downswing motion is a MIXTURE of two different ways of swinging the club and releasing the club. EITHER way (alone) is fine...as long as you build the rest of your swing around it. But mixing the two tends to cause timing and directional problems.

3. Your arms (especially) on the downswing are working too independantly of your body's rotation. In golf terms, you are losing "connection".

Everything else I see are pretty common---simple to fix---problems that are common to relatively new players. But your overall motion is very athletic and very powerful. A lot of good, raw material for any teaching pro to work with in shaping a good swing.

What I would suggest is that you get a copy of Jim Hardy's book "The Plane Truth for Golfers". Although I disagree with some of his teaching methods, he does a very good job of explaining---in simple, straight-forward terms---the two basic ways of swinging a golf club. Plus the different set of swing feels and fundamentals that go along with them. Players who tend to mix elements of the two different swings togther either play BAD golf (if they are not-so-good athletes) or play inconsistent golf (if they are good athletes).

He calls them "one-plane" and "two-plane" swings. Based upon the relationship of the left arm to the line connecting the shoulders at the top of the swing. In "one-plane" swings, the arms tend to work more AROUND the body. So the left arm is close to being parallel to the line connecting the shoulders. That "around and up" motion in your backswing puts you in a position at the top that is more typical of one-plane swings (though that is not the most fundamentally sound way to get there.) Then they move through the ball, while rotating their body and arms through the ball. [b][i]It feels a lot like hitting a low fastball with a baseball swing. [/i][/b]

In "two-plane" swings the arms and the body work differently. The arms swing the club up and down..while the body rotates to provide the "around" component to the swing. As result the shoulders turn on a flatter (more parallel to the ground) plane, and the arms work up. So the hands and club tend to get higher and more behind the head at the top of the swing...and there is a sizeable angle between the left-arm and the line connecting the shoulders. On the downswing the arms swing the club straight down, while the body shifts the weight forwards, and then rotates to support the motion of the arms.

In baseball terms the feel is more like a 3/4 underarm THROWING motion. Like the old submarine sinkerballer, Dan Quissenberry, or the throws that middle infielders will make to one another to get the first leg of a double-play.

Your downswing contains a lot of elements of this kind of motion. Which is fine by itself. It is a very reasonable way to play golf. The problem is that your backswing puts your club out of position in order to make this kind of downswing efficiently. The club is too far around your body, so the club is still ("stuck") behind you coming down and through impact. This causes alot of the not-so-fundamental things you see in your downswing. You have to stand up out of the shot somewhat to create room for your arms to swing. Your club is coming too-inside-out, and with the face open, into impact...and you have to rotate that face square in the last couple of feet of the swing. A move that is very difficult to time consistently. So I bet that you fight a LOT of directional problems...and play a lot of "Army golf" (left, left, left, right, left.) With alternating blocks and hooks.

If you want to keep that two-plane downswing, you are going to have to get your swing plane more "upright", and work the club more UP ("in front of your body") and less "around" you in the backswing.

But---once again---such mixing of elements is pretty common...and straightforward to fix as long as you add/subtract the right things.

To guide your choice....

One plane swings tend to be more consistent...but less powerful. (Think Hunter Mahan, Jason Dufner, and Matt Kuchar) They tend to encourage penetrating, drawing shot shapes. Hitting the ball high, or from left-to-right usually takes a bit of work.

Two plane swings tend to be more powerful...but less consistent. (Think Dustin Johnson, Phil Mickelson, and Bubba Watson) They tend to encourage high, fading shot shapes. Hitting the ball low, or from right-to-left takes more work.

But these are TENDENCIES...not absolutes.

[EagleThr33]

I think the videos in the first post are working again now...

Kelly, thanks a lot for you compliments and advice! Like you, I also played baseball in college, but then started golfing after college. I did play a little golf in my younger years, but between age ~10-22, I probably didn't play much more than 100 holes or so of golf. Mostly coming in the form of an occasional 9 hole round.

You really nailed a lot of the things I feel of my own swing. Your first point of swinging too flat and too much around my body is something I've felt fairly recently. I used to ALWAYS fight hitting anything from fade to slice. Through some trial and error, I came to the conclusion at the time that I was coming too much outside-in. I worked on trying to flatten my swing a little and focus on more inside-out. For quite a while I got things working a lot better. However, recently I felt I was overdoing it a little bit. Also, your point about arms being a little disconnected is another thing I had felt fairly recently. I had been starting to feel like I was getting a lot "looser" feel or that my arms were doing more in the swing than they should, but I didn't really know for sure or how to fix it. I also feel that I'm athletic and flexible enough that I can make a lot of improvements on my swing with out being limited by what my body is capable of doing.

Another point where you hit the nail on the head...inconsistency! I typically shoot around high 70s to low 80s, but it can really vary from one round to the next, and even front 9 to back 9. However, I seem to shoot a very similar score whether I'm playing the easiest course ever, or a really tough course. I played Pinehurst #2 in April from the farthest tees they had open, and shot an 87. I was very happy with that score! But I can go out to an incredibly easy course and shoot a 87 just as easy. Recently I shot a personal low total round of 74 (par 70) in my first individual tournament since probably 10 years old (which I originally agreed to play with another guy who asked me, thinking it was going to be a scramble). But I think the next time I out I shot an 89. I also had a round not that long ago where i shot 50 on the front, and then 3-putted the 18th for a 35 on the tougher back 9. I also play a bit of the "army golf", but I think I've learned to manage my swing faults enough that most (definitely not all) of the time I keep the lefts and rights from being too drastic. Pushes and pulls/hooks tend to kind of alternate being the common shot, depending on the day. And then there are the days I love, where it seems no matter how awful a swing might feel it seems like everything is dead online. So I know all about inconsistency, unfortunately!

Great information on two different types of swings also. Watching my swings, I can really pinpoint a lot of the things you mention. Not sure which direction I may try to go with my swing going forward, but I can see the differences and also identify with them easier with your examples of players using each type. I don't feel like generating power is a problem for me, so perhaps a one-plane swing that can lead to more consistency makes the most sense. I have played a couple rounds with a very successful, former college golf coach who took many of his teams to nationals, and he often comments on how he needs to work with me because my distance and power are a "gift" that he didn't often get to work with for a starter. Don't really know distances or swing speeds, but he convinced me that I definitely needed to try heavier X stiff shafts in driver and 3 wood, and I'm very glad he did from the results I've seen.

All in all, this is probably more swing advice than I've had total in my "golf life". I've always been a self taught, trial and error golfer, who just played by feel and figured out things I could do that would correct tendencies of the moment (whether they were the right way to correct things or not). Thanks again for all the comments!

[bacination]

Hey there...

These swings aren't as bad as you think.

If I look at all of them together only one thing is common in all of them: it is an armsy swing. Specifically, your arms are moving too much in relationship to the movement of your trunk. This causes disconnection between arms and trunk and inconistency.

[BrianMcG]

Pretty good swing. Since you come so far inside on your backswing as mentioned already your first part of your downswing the club is coming up and over to get back on plane. This is costing you a lot of distance.

Work on getting the club going straighter back and the first part of your downswing the club should feel like its falling back behind you For you it will feel like an exagerated figure 8 move with your club.

Here is a good example of what Im talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXN20x06M4k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[kellygreen]

No problem.

One more piece of advice. One former baseball player to another...GET FITTED. Your coach friend is almost certainly right about the fact that you'll need "tour-level" shafts (in terms of stiffness) to handle the speeds your swing can generate.

When I started playing in the mid-90s, fitting wasn't as widely available as it is today...and there weren't as many equipment options for high swingspeed amateurs to choose from.

As a result I wasted a number of years trying to play consistent golf with poorly fitted equipment.

Don't make that mistake. This game is hard enough as it is without unnecessarily handicapping yourself in that fashion.

Good luck.