+index players that can't break 78 in a tourney

[Springbok]

Actually, it is very possible for a 2 handicap to shoot in the 80's. Now I don't understand WHY my handicap is a 1.8, but it is. I post every score. See for yourselves. GHIN is 4030419

 

http://www.ghin.com/lookups/index.html

 

BTW: There is a 78 posted on a 74.9, 136 rated course (Disney Magnolia) that does not yet show there.

 

I don't know how the hell they come up with the 1.8 from those scores. I don't personally care about the actual GHIN number. I do however care about the actual score I post. If I don't shoot 77 or lower, I am very disappointed in my round. As you can see, I have been disappointed a lot lately.

 

Also, one thing to keep in mind. The is a HUGE, and I do mean HUGE leap between a 2 handicapper, and a scratch, and the same huge leap between a scratch and a +2. The lower you shoot, the more difficult it is to shoot lower.

[joesgonegolfing]

I think I just feel for my fellow low handicap golfers who when they shoot 75 and get butchered in the club house for not going low!

 

Here is my last 20 and I am currently a .7 and yes I have been laid up since the 23 of September. I just did not get to play enough golf this year bewteen teaching and back issues. Also switched home courses from a 138 slope to 132/135 courses.

 

Joe

 

# DATE SCORE C/R SLOPE TYPE DIFF # DATE SCORE C/R SLOPE TYPE DIFF

1. 09/23/2006 76 71.1 132 AI 4.2 14. 07/01/2006 71 71.1 132 AI +0.1

2. 09/17/2006 80 74.0 139 AI 4.9 15. 06/25/2006 76 72.0 131 AI 3.5

3. 08/17/2006 74 74.4 135 HI +0.3 16.06/18/2006 74 71.1 132 AI 2.5

4. 08/12/2006 80 74.4 135 HI 4.7 17. 06/11/2006 78 71.1 132 AI 5.9

5. 07/30/2006 79 71.1 132 AI 6.8 18. 06/10/2006 75 72.0 131 AI 2.6

6. 07/29/2006 78 74.4 135 HI 3 19.06/09/2006 72 71.1 132 AI 0.8

7. 07/26/2006 73 74.4 135 H +1.2 20. 06/04/2006 76 72.0 131 AI 3.5

8. 07/23/2006 80 74.4 135 HI 4.7

9. 07/22/2006 77 74.4 135 HI 2.2

10. 07/21/2006 73 72.5 131 HI 0.4

11. 07/13/2006 72 74.4 135 HI +2

12. 07/09/2006 74 71.1 132 AI 2.5

13. 07/02/2006 76 72.0 131 AI 3.5

[dmboak]

Go to a place like Rich Harvest links, post a 77 and still have a + Handicap...

[samm980]

Go to a place like Rich Harvest links, post a 77 and still have a + Handicap...

 

Derek you are full of fine points today!

[rony]

IMHO, The only handicaps in the golfing world that are legitimate, are those given to professional players on tour. They are monitored by the world everytime they play. Everybody else, and I mean everybody else; improves their lie, touch their ball on practice strokes on the green, ground their clubs in bunkers, etc. If most amateurs played strictly by the rules of the game, (myself included), they probably wouldn't break 95. Be completely honest. Is this not in fact true? But hey....we're amateurs. We don't earn our living playing this game. So....No Big Deal! If someone wants to tell people that they are a 3.0 when in fact they're more like a 14, then let em. They're not fooling anyone but themselves :drinks:

[joesgonegolfing]

IMHO, The only handicaps in the golfing world that are legitimate, are those given to professional players on tour. They are monitored by the world everytime they play. Everybody else, and I mean everybody else; improves their lie, touch their ball on practice strokes on the green, ground their clubs in bunkers, etc. If most amateurs played strictly by the rules of the game, (myself included), they probably wouldn't break 95. Be completely honest. Is this not in fact true? But hey....we're amateurs. We don't earn our living playing this game. So....No Big Deal! If someone wants to tell people that they are a 3.0 when in fact they're more like a 14, then let em. They're not fooling anyone but themselves :drinks:

 

 

Well I am sure a lot of that goes on, but in years past I played too many tourneys and money matches to get caught up in that kind behavior on the course during a round.

 

Basically, practice that way..play that way and when you need to play by the rules your toast.

 

To each his own, but I'd bet many of the serious players on this board would find your post insulting.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, but when I play, I don't play with guys that do that crap on the course. I am certainly not gambling with them.

 

Joe

:crazy:

[DOUGLY]

IMHO, The only handicaps in the golfing world that are legitimate, are those given to professional players on tour. They are monitored by the world everytime they play. Everybody else, and I mean everybody else; improves their lie, touch their ball on practice strokes on the green, ground their clubs in bunkers, etc. If most amateurs played strictly by the rules of the game, (myself included), they probably wouldn't break 95. Be completely honest. Is this not in fact true? But hey....we're amateurs. We don't earn our living playing this game. So....No Big Deal! If someone wants to tell people that they are a 3.0 when in fact they're more like a 14, then let em. They're not fooling anyone but themselves :drinks:

 

 

Well I am sure a lot of that goes on, but in years past I played too many tourneys and money matches to get caught up in that kind behavior on the course during a round.

 

Basically, practice that way..play that way and when you need to play by the rules your toast.

 

To each his own, but I'd bet many of the serious players on this board would find your post insulting.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, but when I play, I don't play with guys that do that crap on the course. I am certainly not gambling with them.

 

Joe

:crazy:

 

 

To Rony, your post is simply false.

Joesgonegolfing is spot on. If you play real tournaments and money games, none of that crap will be tolerated. If you see it, you have a responsibility to protect the field and report it.

That is why a legitimate 4 will toast a vanity scratch most days.

 

Oh, and to Joe. I misunderstood what you were saying in posting tournament scores. But I know people who don't ESC those, so it hit home. Common mistake.

[Steve_FLA]

IMHO, The only handicaps in the golfing world that are legitimate, are those given to professional players on tour. They are monitored by the world everytime they play. Everybody else, and I mean everybody else; improves their lie, touch their ball on practice strokes on the green, ground their clubs in bunkers, etc. If most amateurs played strictly by the rules of the game, (myself included), they probably wouldn't break 95. Be completely honest. Is this not in fact true? But hey....we're amateurs. We don't earn our living playing this game. So....No Big Deal! If someone wants to tell people that they are a 3.0 when in fact they're more like a 14, then let em. They're not fooling anyone but themselves :drinks:

 

I'm sure their are a percentage of golfers who do not play by the rules, but you are being a little to general in stating all of us do it. I don't do any of the above mentioned infractions and my circle of playing partners don't either. I will admit we lift/clean and place plug balls on the fairways. Which is an infraction I guess. But our feeling is if we are hitting fairways and the ball is plugging they should have a local rule for the day to lift/clean and place. I have never seen a pro have to play a shot from a plugged lie...never. We only have this problem after rain, but its pretty frustrating to hit a 275 yard drive and have it plug in the middle of the fairway.

 

-Steve

[Springbok]

When my group plays, we play USGA handicap scoring, and "Pro" rules. What does this mean? Well, I am a 2 handicap. That means that I make no more than a 2 over on any given hole. It is rare that I do make higher than +2 on a hole, but when I do, it goes down as a +2 on that hole.

 

Pro rules refers to the fact that Joe Public rarely fills divots, and rarely rakes bunkers. If you are in a foot print in a bunker, then lift, rake, replace. If you are in a divot that is unfilled, fill it, replace.

 

Grip length gimmies, everything else you putt.

 

That's it.

[sevenfourate]

IMHO, The only handicaps in the golfing world that are legitimate, are those given to professional players on tour. They are monitored by the world everytime they play. Everybody else, and I mean everybody else; improves their lie, touch their ball on practice strokes on the green, ground their clubs in bunkers, etc. If most amateurs played strictly by the rules of the game, (myself included), they probably wouldn't break 95. Be completely honest. Is this not in fact true? But hey....we're amateurs. We don't earn our living playing this game. So....No Big Deal! If someone wants to tell people that they are a 3.0 when in fact they're more like a 14, then let em. They're not fooling anyone but themselves :drinks:

 

With all due respect Sir,you are either speaking for yourself,the friends you play with or the golfers in your Country.In the UK you would be shamed,left to play on your own and more than likely banned from not only your home club,but every club in the County if you were caught doing any of the above.

[Simp]

IMHO, The only handicaps in the golfing world that are legitimate, are those given to professional players on tour. They are monitored by the world everytime they play. Everybody else, and I mean everybody else; improves their lie, touch their ball on practice strokes on the green, ground their clubs in bunkers, etc. If most amateurs played strictly by the rules of the game, (myself included), they probably wouldn't break 95. Be completely honest. Is this not in fact true? But hey....we're amateurs. We don't earn our living playing this game. So....No Big Deal! If someone wants to tell people that they are a 3.0 when in fact they're more like a 14, then let em. They're not fooling anyone but themselves :drinks:

 

With all due respect Sir,you are either speaking for yourself,the friends you play with or the golfers in your Country.In the UK you would be shamed,left to play on your own and more than likely banned from not only your home club,but every club in the County if you were caught doing any of the above.

 

 

He's right. I don't mind at all if someone says that they're a 3 handicap but they're really a 14. If it were the other way around...then we have problems. That's called sandbagging. What he described is someone that's destined to loose a bunch of money!

[Simp]

When my group plays, we play USGA handicap scoring, and "Pro" rules. What does this mean? Well, I am a 2 handicap. That means that I make no more than a 2 over on any given hole. It is rare that I do make higher than +2 on a hole, but when I do, it goes down as a +2 on that hole.

 

Pro rules refers to the fact that Joe Public rarely fills divots, and rarely rakes bunkers. If you are in a foot print in a bunker, then lift, rake, replace. If you are in a divot that is unfilled, fill it, replace.

 

Grip length gimmies, everything else you putt.

 

That's it.

 

If we're playing a money game and you make an 8 on a par 4 and you write down a 6...we're gonna have problems! In my opinion, this system only applies to those higher handicap players in order to speed up play. Nobody wants to watch a 30 handicap player hit 9 shots and he's still 150 yards from the green.

 

You're a good player playing to a 2 handicap...count all of your strokes!

Leave this "I can only take X number of strokes" crap to those that really need it. JMO, Simp

[Jer-Jer]

I think it's because people don't put in all their scores. They shoot 10 71's and put those in. But they don't put in their 76, 80-90 scores.

[drew123]

To me the handicap system is terrible. I post some of my scores every now and then just so I can be able to play in tournaments such as the MGA Open, Met Am, NYS Open, NYS Am, MGA Junior, The Ike, and the such. My handicap is a +2.7, but I only posted like 23 of my 100+ rounds this year. And before anybody says I lying I qualified for every tournament I listed above this past year. I don't see the real point of keeping a handicap because I refuse to play a handicaped money match. The high handicap getting a million strokes would beat me every time, it's stupid. I think a handicap should should your average score, not show what you should 25% of the time.

[joesgonegolfing]

To me the handicap system is terrible. I post some of my scores every now and then just so I can be able to play in tournaments such as the MGA Open, Met Am, NYS Open, NYS Am, MGA Junior, The Ike, and the such. My handicap is a +2.7, but I only posted like 23 of my 100+ rounds this year. And before anybody says I lying I qualified for every tournament I listed above this past year. I don't see the real point of keeping a handicap because I refuse to play a handicaped money match. The high handicap getting a million strokes would beat me every time, it's stupid. I think a handicap should should your average score, not show what you should 25% of the time.

 

 

 

While I may not agree with not posting all of your scores I do feel your pain on high handicap matches. iN one of my groups I rountinley have to play a Match Play Event and give up 16-17 strokes....In match play!!

 

I do think the HCP system needs reworked and as a low HCP the effect my scoring has on my HCP is minimal. When you are a High HCP on the move the system does help to keep track of your progress.

 

In my local group (44 guys) we don't use the HCP's from the clubhouse, but keep our own based on your play within the group...far better system. And I think its telling that most guys HCP's outside of the group are lower than when they play inside the group. It makes you wonder what are they posting?

 

I guess we have journeyed off the "Vanity HCP" aspect of this thread, but it was a good topic.

 

Joe

[Springbok]

When my group plays, we play USGA handicap scoring, and "Pro" rules. What does this mean? Well, I am a 2 handicap. That means that I make no more than a 2 over on any given hole. It is rare that I do make higher than +2 on a hole, but when I do, it goes down as a +2 on that hole.

 

Pro rules refers to the fact that Joe Public rarely fills divots, and rarely rakes bunkers. If you are in a foot print in a bunker, then lift, rake, replace. If you are in a divot that is unfilled, fill it, replace.

 

Grip length gimmies, everything else you putt.

 

That's it.

 

If we're playing a money game and you make an 8 on a par 4 and you write down a 6...we're gonna have problems! In my opinion, this system only applies to those higher handicap players in order to speed up play. Nobody wants to watch a 30 handicap player hit 9 shots and he's still 150 yards from the green.

 

You're a good player playing to a 2 handicap...count all of your strokes!

Leave this "I can only take X number of strokes" crap to those that really need it. JMO, Simp

 

 

Simp, if that is what you do, and you submit scores to GHIN where you are counting more than +2 on a hole (assuming you are a 9 or less handicap), then you are in fact the one cheating. It is called sandbagging. USGA REQUIRES (it is not optional) that you not count more than +2 on a hole. I am merely following rules. I don't play money games. I think any time you play for money, you take the fun out of the game (JMHO).

[Golfdog]

When my group plays, we play USGA handicap scoring, and "Pro" rules. What does this mean? Well, I am a 2 handicap. That means that I make no more than a 2 over on any given hole. It is rare that I do make higher than +2 on a hole, but when I do, it goes down as a +2 on that hole.

 

Pro rules refers to the fact that Joe Public rarely fills divots, and rarely rakes bunkers. If you are in a foot print in a bunker, then lift, rake, replace. If you are in a divot that is unfilled, fill it, replace.

 

Grip length gimmies, everything else you putt.

 

That's it.

 

Wow. Just wow. You fix your bad lies, then post those scores. That is unbelieveable. Nothing legal about that my friend.

 

You should be playing the ball as it lays--especially at your level.

[Jer-Jer]

I can definitely understand bunkers, I hate it when I am in a footprint. A rake mark is a big difference. But if you are in a divot in the fairway, you should just leave it as it is.

[Springbok]

I can definitely understand bunkers, I hate it when I am in a footprint. A rake mark is a big difference. But if you are in a divot in the fairway, you should just leave it as it is.

 

 

Jer-jer.... did you read what I said. We don't take it out. If it is unfilled, i.e. joe public never bothered to fill it, then you lift, fill, replace.

[Simp]

Simp, if that is what you do, and you submit scores to GHIN where you are counting more than +2 on a hole (assuming you are a 9 or less handicap), then you are in fact the one cheating. It is called sandbagging. USGA REQUIRES (it is not optional) that you not count more than +2 on a hole. I am merely following rules. I don't play money games. I think any time you play for money, you take the fun out of the game (JMHO).

 

So, every State Open, State Amateur or other tournament that I've played in, I've been cheating by counting all of my strokes?

[Simp]

 

Jer-jer.... did you read what I said. We don't take it out. If it is unfilled, i.e. joe public never bothered to fill it, then you lift, fill, replace.

 

That's called "Rub of the Green" my friend. There's only one set of rules to play to. It really doesn't make sense to shave strokes off of your score for the sake of appeasing the USGA on one hole, then pick your ball up, rake the trap and then place your ball on a perfect lie on the next hole. :drinks:

[Jer-Jer]

Ok so if you fill it in with a hunk of sand wouldn't that make it a harder shot?

[Springbok]

Alrighty guys. I will simply crawl back in my hole. Hell, I thought I played a pretty honest game.

 

No Simp, I play USGA and FSGA events, and I do NOT rake my lie or fill divots that are not filled. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I have raked a foot print out this year, and 0 times that I have filled a divot. That's appoximately 60 rounds of golf.

 

But apparently I am amoungst golfing angels here. Enjoy your rounds guys.

[joesgonegolfing]

Kind of shame this drifted off topic and a little nasty.

 

I think Springbok was upfront showed what he shot and discussed the rules he likes to play within his own group. Many groups adopt the same types of adjustments to the rules as it is not often you see a PGA pro playing from a footprint in the bunker, when it's wet they play lift clean and place.

 

Most of us acknowledge the worst rule in golf is the fairway divot.

 

We all have bigger issues with a guy who moves his ball out from under a bush or tells you he made 5 on a hole when 7 was count.

 

As to posting DOUGLY and I both understood what the other meant when it came to posting based on the ESC system versus what you shot and turned in at a Tourney. It seems pretty clear to me what each of you said...so lets be nice.

 

The topic was VANITY HANDICAPS. I posted my scores to maybe show those that just don't get the HCP system that you can be a plus and shoot a 77.

 

Lets all enjoy our rounds and posting before a good thread gets shut down.

 

Joe

[TourPro]

I can definitely understand bunkers, I hate it when I am in a footprint. A rake mark is a big difference. But if you are in a divot in the fairway, you should just leave it as it is.

 

 

Jer-jer.... did you read what I said. We don't take it out. If it is unfilled, i.e. joe public never bothered to fill it, then you lift, fill, replace.

 

I don't know why you are calling these "pro rules". We hit our balls out of fairway divots. Happens all the time. Even Tiger had to hit out of a divot at Medinah, as did Luke Donald. We don't get to lift, fill the divot an replace. If your playing it straight, neither should you.

[Stiff]

IMHO, The only handicaps in the golfing world that are legitimate, are those given to professional players on tour. They are monitored by the world everytime they play. Everybody else, and I mean everybody else; improves their lie, touch their ball on practice strokes on the green, ground their clubs in bunkers, etc. If most amateurs played strictly by the rules of the game, (myself included), they probably wouldn't break 95. Be completely honest. Is this not in fact true? But hey....we're amateurs. We don't earn our living playing this game. So....No Big Deal! If someone wants to tell people that they are a 3.0 when in fact they're more like a 14, then let em. They're not fooling anyone but themselves :drinks:

 

 

 

I disagree. The group of people I play with typically follow the rules and therefore I believe in their handicaps. I can assure you if someone was bending the rules they would not stay in the group.

[Subsonic]

The only thing I can control is myself. I don't worry about what others do. If they can look in the mirror, so be it. A round of golf will tell you a lot about a person.

[Golfdog]

Getting back to original post, it is not unusual for scratch players to shoot 80 in competition. I've done it a bunch of times, as have all of the top players in my area. It happens to everyone, even the pros. Some guys are never comfortable in tourneys, and put up big numbers all the time. If you haven't played tourney golf, it really is a different animal than recreational golf. Keep in mind that the scores people see in the newspaper are non-ESC scores. In our state Am, a kid from my club played 17 holes in +1. He had a 13 on the other hole. That chit happens.

 

When you play tourneys, you are willing to bare your game for everyone to see. If you shoot 92, that's what shows up in the paper. Personally, I have respect for anyone who is willing to tee it up in a tourney, regardless of any disparity between their tourney scores and their index.

[joesgonegolfing]

Getting back to original post, it is not unusual for scratch players to shoot 80 in competition. I've done it a bunch of times, as have all of the top players in my area. It happens to everyone, even the pros. Some guys are never comfortable in tourneys, and put up big numbers. If you haven't played tourney golf, it really is a different animal than recreational golf. Keep in mind that the scores people see in the newspaper are non-ESC scores. In our state Am, a kid from my club played 17 holes in +1. He had a 13 on the other hole. That chit happens.

 

Keep in mind that when you play tourneys, that you are willing to bare your game for everyone to see. If you shoot 92, that's what shows up in the paper. Personally, I have respect for anyone who is willing to tee it up in a tourney, regardless of any disparity between their tourney scores and their index.

 

 

Well said....Happy Holidays!

 

:drinks:

 

Joe

[sfdoddsy]

I hadn't realised there is such a disparity between USGA handicaps and playing practices and the rest of the world.

 

Here in Australia, if a member of a club, we also play by strict R&A rules. Only competition rounds where you have a marker and there is a CCR count for handicaping, and it is strictly play it as it lies with no gimmes of any sort.

 

Anyone hazard a guess what the handicap differential between a USGA handicap and an R&A (or similar) would be?

 

It's got to be three shots or more.