Thoughts on Chuck Quinton's Rotary Swing?

[zoots]

[quote name='Jpriley46' timestamp='1433703670' post='11706496']
[quote name='zoots' timestamp='1433703162' post='11706470']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355751142' post='6080203']
[quote name='inpresX' timestamp='1355715335' post='6079245']
I was reading one of his articles:

[url="http://www.rotaryswing.com/golf-instruction/golfequipment/golf-launch-monitor.php"]http://www.rotaryswi...nch-monitor.php[/url]

I thought it was interesting that he lists his stats right along with Tiger and Adam Scott. Later he comments on Bubba's swing:

"While Bubba's numbers are ideal for hitting the ball as far as humanly possible, he is hitting the equivalent of a "flyer" off his driver on every shot. Flyer's happen all the time from the rough on iron shots. It happens when grass gets trapped between the clubface and the ball and the spin is greatly reduced. This leads to shots that "knuckle" in the air and go much further than normal with obviously less control."

"For a long drive, this is perfect. Bubba is also much more at the mercy of the wind with such a tremendously high launch angle and ball flight, so this will also decrease his accuracy. All of these factors completely disregard his swing technique which can obviously also cause him to lose accuracy."

I kinda don't buy those comments. If you play in wind, less spin obviously gives you more control. And Bubba's swing technique is accurate enough that he is on the PGA tour.
[/quote]

Where he was ranked 135th in driving accuracy, and only hit about 58% of fairways. Fifty-eight percent where he is likely playing less-than-driver on many holes.

Quinton's right on this one. Spin is CONTROL. Which is why a football pass that doesn't spiral will have a difficult time reaching its intended target....and the knuckleball in baseball is so unpredictable that it is one of the most difficult pitches to throw consistently, catch or hit successfully.

Backspin on a golf ball (along with the dimples) provides the necessary lift that allows the ball to get into the air and travel the distance that it does. Sidespin provides the control necessary to curve the ball. That is why golf instructors have traditionally told players to tee off with 3 woods and 2-iron/5-woods if they have difficulty controlling their drivers. The greater loft on these clubs impart more backspin, and help to neutralize the impact of any sidepin from mis-hits. The shorter shafts also increase the likelihood of a square strike...which gives less sidespin.

Spin is only a problem if it is applied in an uncontrolled fashion, and in the wrong situations. Spin in windy conditions simply increases the lift force which causes balls to balloon into the wind, and lose their stability in crosswinds.

But the smart player looks to OPTIMIZE spin, not eliminate it. There is a point where you reduce spin so much that you are hitting (essentially) a knuckleball. A ball with so little spin that (like a wobbly football pass or a knuckleball pitch) the golfer has difficulty controlling the ball even in still conditions, and the ball has difficulty holding its line...even in still conditions.

Bubba Watson's spin rates are so low that they've essentially reached that point. While his high launch angle allows him to get a LOT more distance out of his drives than one would normally see in a player with a ball speed in the mid-180s....it also makes him a VERY wild driver of the ball on days when is timing is off. When he's liable to hit the ball off-the-planet.

The birdie he made on that last playoff hole in the Masters shows why he's so successful on tour. Like Mickelson, he's become a master of the recovery shot, so he's able to minimize (most days) the impact of his wild tee shots.
[/quote]




Who cares? Bubba would wipe Quinton any day of the week. That's what matters. Any instructor who disparages a multiple tour and major winners can spew as much golf jargon as they want. Quinton would kill to have Bubbas' talent, or any successful tour pro, for that matter.
[/quote]

In fairness, he isn't disparaging anyone. The whole rotaryswing process is based on biomechanic principles of movement. He is saying that this isn't a good way for the common golfer to try and swing. Professionals have the time to build in the compensations for biomechanic swing flaws.
[/quote]


If biomechanically incorrect means smashing the ball in the center of the face with a free unrestricted swing, that doesn't cause injury, and produce terrific results, I'll take it.

[MANthrax]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355751142' post='6080203']
[quote name='inpresX' timestamp='1355715335' post='6079245']
I was reading one of his articles:

[url="http://www.rotaryswing.com/golf-instruction/golfequipment/golf-launch-monitor.php"]http://www.rotaryswi...nch-monitor.php[/url]

I thought it was interesting that he lists his stats right along with Tiger and Adam Scott. Later he comments on Bubba's swing:

"While Bubba's numbers are ideal for hitting the ball as far as humanly possible, he is hitting the equivalent of a "flyer" off his driver on every shot. Flyer's happen all the time from the rough on iron shots. It happens when grass gets trapped between the clubface and the ball and the spin is greatly reduced. This leads to shots that "knuckle" in the air and go much further than normal with obviously less control."

"For a long drive, this is perfect. Bubba is also much more at the mercy of the wind with such a tremendously high launch angle and ball flight, so this will also decrease his accuracy. All of these factors completely disregard his swing technique which can obviously also cause him to lose accuracy."

I kinda don't buy those comments. If you play in wind, less spin obviously gives you more control. And Bubba's swing technique is accurate enough that he is on the PGA tour.
[/quote]

Where he was ranked 135th in driving accuracy, and only hit about 58% of fairways. Fifty-eight percent where he is likely playing less-than-driver on many holes.

Quinton's right on this one. Spin is CONTROL. Which is why a football pass that doesn't spiral will have a difficult time reaching its intended target....and the knuckleball in baseball is so unpredictable that it is one of the most difficult pitches to throw consistently, catch or hit successfully.

Backspin on a golf ball (along with the dimples) provides the necessary lift that allows the ball to get into the air and travel the distance that it does. Sidespin provides the control necessary to curve the ball. That is why golf instructors have traditionally told players to tee off with 3 woods and 2-iron/5-woods if they have difficulty controlling their drivers. The greater loft on these clubs impart more backspin, and help to neutralize the impact of any sidepin from mis-hits. The shorter shafts also increase the likelihood of a square strike...which gives less sidespin.

Spin is only a problem if it is applied in an uncontrolled fashion, and in the wrong situations. Spin in windy conditions simply increases the lift force which causes balls to balloon into the wind, and lose their stability in crosswinds.

But the smart player looks to OPTIMIZE spin, not eliminate it. There is a point where you reduce spin so much that you are hitting (essentially) a knuckleball. A ball with so little spin that (like a wobbly football pass or a knuckleball pitch) the golfer has difficulty controlling the ball even in still conditions, and the ball has difficulty holding its line...even in still conditions.

Bubba Watson's spin rates are so low that they've essentially reached that point. While his high launch angle allows him to get a LOT more distance out of his drives than one would normally see in a player with a ball speed in the mid-180s....it also makes him a VERY wild driver of the ball on days when is timing is off. When he's liable to hit the ball off-the-planet.

The birdie he made on that last playoff hole in the Masters shows why he's so successful on tour. Like Mickelson, he's become a master of the recovery shot, so he's able to minimize (most days) the impact of his wild tee shots.
[/quote]
Look whom leads driver accuracy and how many wins they have. 300/60 club is where you want to be. Ave 300 yard drive and 60% of fairways. Bomb and chip is the current game.
Footballs and baseball knuckleballs have nothing to do with low spin golf balls.
Backspin on a ball provides lift and more importantly reduces drag. That is why everybody wants less spin on driver . Higher lofted clubs with less spin. Low spinning ball will cut through the wind. Remember, spin reduces drag, but minimal spin to keep it from rising.
No such thing as “side spin”.
Knuckleball in golf will not go far because of the increased drag. Nothing to do with stability or holding line. Try hitting one of those no slice tees that cover the ball and launches a knuckle. Just doesn’t go that far. Not like you’re thinking.
Bubba has excellent trackman number and I believe the best smash factors number so don’t know what you’re talking about.

[jtafuri]

Saw this post and wanted to give some feedback.

I joined RST last week for $20. There are some good instructional videos and drills to try, not bad for only $20.
My only complaint thus far is the information overload. I think they have a five part video series on just the takeaway move. A litle overkill if you ask me. I dont think i will renew my subscription but i think for only $20 can get access to some good videos.

[Gamble Gamble]

[quote name='jtafuri' timestamp='1437256299' post='11974502']My only complaint thus far is the information overload. I think they have a five part video series on just the takeaway move. A litle overkill if you ask me. I dont think i will renew my subscription but i think for only $20 can get access to some good videos.[/quote]

Exactly this.

I joined the site for a year and it gives a great breakdown of each of the moves but it is information overload. Too many swing thoughts at one time makes Gamble Gamble sound like Jack Pearsall.

I recommend watching Monte's videos and/or iTeach's videos. Both have great content that do not get overly technical.

[Stampa]

I've been a "premium" member for a year now. I've done a lesson with them every 2-3 weeks. My handicap has from an 11 to an 8. My ball striking and scoring have improved. However, I still have pretty much the same swing flaws I did a year ago (early extension). The problem I have experienced is that they are a bit narrow in their approach (or at least my instructor is). They tell you pretty much the same stuff over and over again. When their suggestions don't work, it is up to me to figure out ways to actually make a proper swing. I agree that their philosophy is a bit technical at first, but once you get an overall sense of their "method" it is really not technical at all. All-in-all I have enjoyed the experience and I will be sticking with them. $20 a month for two lessons can't be beat. And most of the training they suggest does not require range time at all. I have enjoyed not having to beat balls all day, while still improving.

[Jpriley46]

[quote name='Stampa' timestamp='1437771974' post='12014430']
I've been a "premium" member for a year now. I've done a lesson with them every 2-3 weeks. My handicap has from an 11 to an 8. My ball striking and scoring have improved. However, I still have pretty much the same swing flaws I did a year ago (early extension). The problem I have experienced is that they are a bit narrow in their approach (or at least my instructor is). They tell you pretty much the same stuff over and over again. When their suggestions don't work, it is up to me to figure out ways to actually make a proper swing. I agree that their philosophy is a bit technical at first, but once you get an overall sense of their "method" it is really not technical at all. All-in-all I have enjoyed the experience and I will be sticking with them. $20 a month for two lessons can't be beat. And most of the training they suggest does not require range time at all. I have enjoyed not having to beat balls all day, while still improving.
[/quote]

For the same money go to mind 2 motion golf. Alison taught Chuck everything he knows. Her drills and teaching technique are much more clear. I feel your pain on early extension. Her version of the downswing will go a long way in fixing that; it did for me. Video is not the key; doing the drills in front of a mirror is how the brain learns real-time and connects the dots. Your brain can't learn precise movement from video of you from sometime in the past.

[montyjk01]

I have been working on the RST swing for a little while now. I believe that Chuck has developed an excellent product that will improve any golfer. However, I believe you must have some knowledge of the golf swing in order to grasp the movements that he talks about. Learning from watching videos is very difficult, but Chuck does as good as anyone possibly can in explaining the movements and what you should be feeling.

Furthermore, he allows up to 2 video lessons per month, free of charge, for the premium member (which is very inexpensive). Who can beat that? If you're willing to get worse before you get better, I would highly recommend learning this swing. If you're looking for quick fixes, go to your club professional.

[mojocracker]

I like his program at it's core. (Pun). He is way less technical and a lot cheaper than GolfTec with whom I spent way too much money. If you start with or stick with his "one drill" video, "The Dead Drill" you understand and should be able to execute what he is talking about. It makes sense to me and is helping me achieve more power and speed (at 67, I can really use it). But I do agree with those who say if you have severely limited core strength/flexibility you are going to be limited in applying Chuck's core swing which can be found by searching YT. "Last drill you will ever need, The Dead Drill".

[rcariddi]

I think the concepts are sound and when you find the right order of video, it really helps with the concepts. 

The website, however, is awful.  It's such a mess of instruction, other than the first few dead swing drills, the following a path of instruction is beyond non-intuitive. 

And if there is something I'm missing, like a progression of videos, then again, it's because the website is atrocious.

I'll keep sticking with it, b/c the concepts are great, but following the progression is a nightmare.

[Scottieboy10]

Revisiting this topic - Chuck has recently launched the "C4" program.  Wanted to hear from anyone who has completed any of the programs successfully as a member before - Axiom, Dead Drill, etc.   I'm sure if you had a data base of success rates for any instruction program they would be low due to lack of compliance, commitment, ect. - but want to hear from previous/current members as the instruction does seem intuitive.  Has anyone transformed their swing/game?  Seen marked improvement?

[Scottieboy10]

Anyone successfully complete any online program with game changing results?  Mind to motion, etc.?

[Drrussell]

On 1/7/2023 at 7:19 AM, Scottieboy10 said:

Anyone successfully complete any online program with game changing results?  Mind to motion, etc.?

I just joined the program. Will keep you posted. I went through several videos last night and could immediately see how some of his drills will help me become a better golfer. I am a 2-3 handicap and believe the details he has provided will be key to getting scratch or better. More importantly, I believe that the simplicity in his move will lead to a more consistent long-term swing. Time will tell. 

[Gamble Gamble]

On 7/20/2015 at 9:38 PM, Gamble Gamble said:

[quote name='jtafuri' timestamp='1437256299' post='11974502']My only complaint thus far is the information overload. I think they have a five part video series on just the takeaway move. A litle overkill if you ask me. I dont think i will renew my subscription but i think for only $20 can get access to some good videos.[/quote]

Exactly this.

I joined the site for a year and it gives a great breakdown of each of the moves but it is information overload. Too many swing thoughts at one time makes Gamble Gamble sound like Jack Pearsall.

I recommend watching Monte's videos and/or iTeach's videos. Both have great content that do not get overly technical.

 

 

Wow, 8 years have passed and i still 100% agree with my comment.    Monte's content is better.  Especially if you do not want to become a overwhelmingly technical golfer.   

 

I would add, unless you are getting online swing lessons from Rotary swing, you're better off watching Athletic Motion Golf's youtube channel.  Same level of specificity but with data and 3D models.  

 

Edit:  Chuck does have some great videos on youtube, and his site may have improved in the last few years.  

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Gamble Gamble

[Nels55]

I guess that the legal drama mentioned in this thread must be resolved by now?