The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim,

Great podcast! I was able to view most of it barring technical difficulties from using public WiFi. I wanted to participate but I couldn't find another way to ask questions without giving up access to twitter including the ability to tweet. I will create a personal twitter account if you have another one.

I took special attention to when you spoke about early release and how it is caused by throwing the wrists, right arm angle, or left arm off chest. In order to do any of these things, you need to first tense up that specific set of muscles (paraphrasing here) so the solution would be to keep your mind in feel channel to keep your muscles passive. For example, in order to not release your wrist c0ck too early, you would monitor your grip pressure to keep your wrists from tensing up. Wrists need to tense up first before it can actively throw away the angles. Please correct me if I got any of this wrong.

Are there other ways to release your angles too early while still keeping your wrists passive? Possibly accelerating too fast from the top before making a solid transition?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1449868526' post='12708736']
Hi Jim,

Great podcast! I was able to view most of it barring technical difficulties from using public WiFi. I wanted to participate but I couldn't find another way to ask questions without giving up access to twitter including the ability to tweet. I will create a personal twitter account if you have another one.

I took special attention to when you spoke about early release and how it is caused by throwing the wrists, right arm angle, or left arm off chest. In order to do any of these things, you need to first tense up that specific set of muscles (paraphrasing here) so the solution would be to keep your mind in feel channel to keep your muscles passive. For example, in order to not release your wrist c0ck too early, you would monitor your grip pressure to keep your wrists from tensing up. Wrists need to tense up first before it can actively throw away the angles. Please correct me if I got any of this wrong.

Are there other ways to release your angles too early while still keeping your wrists passive? Possibly accelerating too fast from the top before making a solid transition?
[/quote]

Thanks! It was fund doing this podcast with the new Blab platform. Yeah, a lot of folks had the same problem as far as logging in, and I am still learning all of the ins and outs of Blab. I am thinking of making this a once or twice a month event, a web seminar with live video interaction with students.

Yes, your understanding is correct on early release. Throwing the wrist c0ck and/or hinge angles away is an extremely common swing flaw for folks who are around 18 handicaps and higher, I know it gets no love here on wrx, but it does not matter - it is still a simple fact that millions of golfers struggle with this issue, and it is a stand alone flaw in most cases, ie NOT a result primarily of some other swing flaw. It is the perfect manifestation of the Hit Impulse.

You will tighten your grip pressure instinctively right before the wrist muscles activate to start the throw. So if you can inhibit that change in grip pressure, you cant throw.

Yes - over-acceleration of Pivot during Transition can also cause early release.

[Jim Waldron]

Here is the link to the GolfSmarter podcast with host Fred Greene that we did last week. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABTQ6IFGPo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qABTQ6IFGPo[/url]

We had some weird audio issue at the very last minute as Fred was closing the program, and a bit of video freeze at my end, but other than that it went pretty well. Ended up with not a lot of time on the ASI but some other golf swing issues that Fred was interested in talking about, and a lot on the mental side of making swing changes, awareness and focus at the end.

Enjoy....

[starsail85]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450134708' post='12720600']
Here is the link to the GolfSmarter podcast with host Fred Greene that we did last week. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABTQ6IFGPo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qABTQ6IFGPo[/url]

We had some weird audio issue at the very last minute as Fred was closing the program, and a bit of video freeze at my end, but other than that it went pretty well. Ended up with not a lot of time on the ASI but some other golf swing issues that Fred was interested in talking about, and a lot on the mental side of making swing changes, awareness and focus at the end.

Enjoy....
[/quote]

Enjoyed the podcast , a lot of the information is covered in your audio file on learning golf skills

Curious to hear your thoughts on what a player should be thinking of whilst playing a tournament is the goal to be unconsciously competent regarding producing a golf swing or is it ok to be aware of a singular or overall swing feel that you take into a shot from your practice swings

Also could you go into more depth about this 51% rule , as in once you start repeating a movement more often correctly than incorrectly is starts to become way easier ?

It seems mind boggling just how many quality reps are needed to completely overwrite a old dominant habit and replace it, let's say for example the outwards arm pressure with the right tricep in the golf swing, fairly easy to do with conscious control via keeping awareness on the actual physical arm pressure , but doesn't occur yet without thought as the old dominant habit is stronger than the new one . Kinda frustrating does this illustrate that there has not been enough high quality reps with well placed awareness throughout? During training that is....

I really like the point you make about grip pressure , so easy to overlook but critically important to function

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450184011' post='12722548']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450134708' post='12720600']
Here is the link to the GolfSmarter podcast with host Fred Greene that we did last week. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABTQ6IFGPo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qABTQ6IFGPo[/url]

We had some weird audio issue at the very last minute as Fred was closing the program, and a bit of video freeze at my end, but other than that it went pretty well. Ended up with not a lot of time on the ASI but some other golf swing issues that Fred was interested in talking about, and a lot on the mental side of making swing changes, awareness and focus at the end.

Enjoy....
[/quote]

Enjoyed the podcast , a lot of the information is covered in your audio file on learning golf skills

Curious to hear your thoughts on what a player should be thinking of whilst playing a tournament is the goal to be unconsciously competent regarding producing a golf swing or is it ok to be aware of a singular or overall swing feel that you take into a shot from your practice swings

Also could you go into more depth about this 51% rule , as in once you start repeating a movement more often correctly than incorrectly is starts to become way easier ?

It seems mind boggling just how many quality reps are needed to completely overwrite a old dominant habit and replace it, let's say for example the outwards arm pressure with the right tricep in the golf swing, fairly easy to do with conscious control via keeping awareness on the actual physical arm pressure , but doesn't occur yet without thought as the old dominant habit is stronger than the new one . Kinda frustrating does this illustrate that there has not been enough high quality reps with well placed awareness throughout? During training that is....

I really like the point you make about grip pressure , so easy to overlook but critically important to function
[/quote]

"What you should be thinking about" is what I call the Art of Shotmaking, and is a really Big Deal in golf performance. And there are no universal answers that will work for everyone - you have to go through that process of experimentation to discover what works for you. We have a whole day golf school devoted entirely to this topic called Rip It to the Target! The basic idea is that to maximize your chances of hitting a quality golf shot, certain rules have to be adhered to:1. a neutral to positive emotional state, such as confidence. 2. a clear and narrowly focused mind on a proven effective single focal point (no wandering mind) such as Target Picture, or grip pressure, or Tempo, for example. There are many proven effective focal points that golfers have used to perform well. 3. acting with a unified mind/body from first person perspective, ie NOT giving yourself a "how to do it" lesson, in which case there are "two of you" in your mind, your Inner Golf Teacher and the Student he is "coaching" - you need to act from a sense of unity, like a warrior going into battle. Second or even worse, Third Person perspective creates a weak mind/body connection and a tendency to flinch.4. a consistent, step-by-step routine that you go through, the same way every time.

Swing feels are commonly reported by great players, and are certainly a proven effective focal point, IF they are feels (not visual images or words) and If you are acting from first person.

Yes - in general, it usually takes more reps than we all would like to create a truly dominant habit. That is why it takes patience to make those kinds of swing changes. What can speed that process up is the Deep insight approach, when you truly have the light bulb moment, that lays the groundwork for the reps training to be faster and more efficient. Skipping over the Insight and going straight to the reps training is not a good idea. 51% concept just means there is a tipping point where it becomes noticeably easier to do the new move. And yes - high quality awareness in Feel channel is also a way to make faster progress. Most golfers will tend to let their mind wander when doing the reps, which is just a waste of time.

Grip Pressure is super important fundamental, certainly!

[starsail85]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450196046' post='12723316']
[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450184011' post='12722548']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450134708' post='12720600']
Here is the link to the GolfSmarter podcast with host Fred Greene that we did last week. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABTQ6IFGPo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qABTQ6IFGPo[/url]

We had some weird audio issue at the very last minute as Fred was closing the program, and a bit of video freeze at my end, but other than that it went pretty well. Ended up with not a lot of time on the ASI but some other golf swing issues that Fred was interested in talking about, and a lot on the mental side of making swing changes, awareness and focus at the end.

Enjoy....
[/quote]

Enjoyed the podcast , a lot of the information is covered in your audio file on learning golf skills

Curious to hear your thoughts on what a player should be thinking of whilst playing a tournament is the goal to be unconsciously competent regarding producing a golf swing or is it ok to be aware of a singular or overall swing feel that you take into a shot from your practice swings

Also could you go into more depth about this 51% rule , as in once you start repeating a movement more often correctly than incorrectly is starts to become way easier ?

It seems mind boggling just how many quality reps are needed to completely overwrite a old dominant habit and replace it, let's say for example the outwards arm pressure with the right tricep in the golf swing, fairly easy to do with conscious control via keeping awareness on the actual physical arm pressure , but doesn't occur yet without thought as the old dominant habit is stronger than the new one . Kinda frustrating does this illustrate that there has not been enough high quality reps with well placed awareness throughout? During training that is....

I really like the point you make about grip pressure , so easy to overlook but critically important to function
[/quote]

"What you should be thinking about" is what I call the Art of Shotmaking, and is a really Big Deal in golf performance. And there are no universal answers that will work for everyone - you have to go through that process of experimentation to discover what works for you. We have a whole day golf school devoted entirely to this topic called Rip It to the Target! The basic idea is that to maximize your chances of hitting a quality golf shot, certain rules have to be adhered to:1. a neutral to positive emotional state, such as confidence. 2. a clear and narrowly focused mind on a proven effective single focal point (no wandering mind) such as Target Picture, or grip pressure, or Tempo, for example. There are many proven effective focal points that golfers have used to perform well. 3. acting with a unified mind/body from first person perspective, ie NOT giving yourself a "how to do it" lesson, in which case there are "two of you" in your mind, your Inner Golf Teacher and the Student he is "coaching" - you need to act from a sense of unity, like a warrior going into battle. Second or even worse, Third Person perspective creates a weak mind/body connection and a tendency to flinch.4. a consistent, step-by-step routine that you go through, the same way every time.

Swing feels are commonly reported by great players, and are certainly a proven effective focal point, IF they are feels (not visual images or words) and If you are acting from first person.

Yes - in general, it usually takes more reps than we all would like to create a truly dominant habit. That is why it takes patience to make those kinds of swing changes. What can speed that process up is the Deep insight approach, when you truly have the light bulb moment, that lays the groundwork for the reps training to be faster and more efficient. Skipping over the Insight and going straight to the reps training is not a good idea. 51% concept just means there is a tipping point where it becomes noticeably easier to do the new move. And yes - high quality awareness in Feel channel is also a way to make faster progress. Most golfers will tend to let their mind wander when doing the reps, which is just a waste of time.

Grip Pressure is super important fundamental, certainly!
[/quote]

Thanks

Deep insight is a difficult concept for me to get my head around, mainly because it seems to me like there wouldn't be a lightbulb moment on many swing changes

The grip pressure point makes perfect sense you can't hit from the top or be overcome from hit impulse at p6 if you retain original pressure . I understand it and believe in the idea etc

Some things let's say stopping right leg straightening , how would I get this deep insight lightbulb moment on a move like this? Is the lightbulb moment just when you clearly and suddenly understand the move you are trying to produce and suddenly have a tangible feel? I know you have mentioned that you need to have an open and inquiring mind to learn best and not provide resistance to the move you are trying to produce, this makes sense and makes the player more receptive to instruction

How would one obtain deep insight on various swing changes ?

Perhaps my understanding of the term is incorrect but is it like a 100 percent trust in the necessity of the swing change and the importance of the correct move?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450198028' post='12723462']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450196046' post='12723316']
[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450184011' post='12722548']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450134708' post='12720600']
Here is the link to the GolfSmarter podcast with host Fred Greene that we did last week. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABTQ6IFGPo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qABTQ6IFGPo[/url]

We had some weird audio issue at the very last minute as Fred was closing the program, and a bit of video freeze at my end, but other than that it went pretty well. Ended up with not a lot of time on the ASI but some other golf swing issues that Fred was interested in talking about, and a lot on the mental side of making swing changes, awareness and focus at the end.

Enjoy....
[/quote]

Enjoyed the podcast , a lot of the information is covered in your audio file on learning golf skills

Curious to hear your thoughts on what a player should be thinking of whilst playing a tournament is the goal to be unconsciously competent regarding producing a golf swing or is it ok to be aware of a singular or overall swing feel that you take into a shot from your practice swings

Also could you go into more depth about this 51% rule , as in once you start repeating a movement more often correctly than incorrectly is starts to become way easier ?

It seems mind boggling just how many quality reps are needed to completely overwrite a old dominant habit and replace it, let's say for example the outwards arm pressure with the right tricep in the golf swing, fairly easy to do with conscious control via keeping awareness on the actual physical arm pressure , but doesn't occur yet without thought as the old dominant habit is stronger than the new one . Kinda frustrating does this illustrate that there has not been enough high quality reps with well placed awareness throughout? During training that is....

I really like the point you make about grip pressure , so easy to overlook but critically important to function
[/quote]

"What you should be thinking about" is what I call the Art of Shotmaking, and is a really Big Deal in golf performance. And there are no universal answers that will work for everyone - you have to go through that process of experimentation to discover what works for you. We have a whole day golf school devoted entirely to this topic called Rip It to the Target! The basic idea is that to maximize your chances of hitting a quality golf shot, certain rules have to be adhered to:1. a neutral to positive emotional state, such as confidence. 2. a clear and narrowly focused mind on a proven effective single focal point (no wandering mind) such as Target Picture, or grip pressure, or Tempo, for example. There are many proven effective focal points that golfers have used to perform well. 3. acting with a unified mind/body from first person perspective, ie NOT giving yourself a "how to do it" lesson, in which case there are "two of you" in your mind, your Inner Golf Teacher and the Student he is "coaching" - you need to act from a sense of unity, like a warrior going into battle. Second or even worse, Third Person perspective creates a weak mind/body connection and a tendency to flinch.4. a consistent, step-by-step routine that you go through, the same way every time.

Swing feels are commonly reported by great players, and are certainly a proven effective focal point, IF they are feels (not visual images or words) and If you are acting from first person.

Yes - in general, it usually takes more reps than we all would like to create a truly dominant habit. That is why it takes patience to make those kinds of swing changes. What can speed that process up is the Deep insight approach, when you truly have the light bulb moment, that lays the groundwork for the reps training to be faster and more efficient. Skipping over the Insight and going straight to the reps training is not a good idea. 51% concept just means there is a tipping point where it becomes noticeably easier to do the new move. And yes - high quality awareness in Feel channel is also a way to make faster progress. Most golfers will tend to let their mind wander when doing the reps, which is just a waste of time.

Grip Pressure is super important fundamental, certainly!
[/quote]

Thanks

Deep insight is a difficult concept for me to get my head around, mainly because it seems to me like there wouldn't be a lightbulb moment on many swing changes

The grip pressure point makes perfect sense you can't hit from the top or be overcome from hit impulse at p6 if you retain original pressure . I understand it and believe in the idea etc

Some things let's say stopping right leg straightening , how would I get this deep insight lightbulb moment on a move like this? Is the lightbulb moment just when you clearly and suddenly understand the move you are trying to produce and suddenly have a tangible feel? I know you have mentioned that you need to have an open and inquiring mind to learn best and not provide resistance to the move you are trying to produce, this makes sense and makes the player more receptive to instruction

How would one obtain deep insight on various swing changes ?

Perhaps my understanding of the term is incorrect but is it like a 100 percent trust in the necessity of the swing change and the importance of the correct move?
[/quote]

The Insight is the end result of a dialogue between teacher and student, which is the essence of the learning process, in any field or skill area.

Now the intensity can vary from as little as a 15 watt night light to a massive supernova explosion of light. But - no one is going to put the practice time in, especially doing the slow mo mirror work, if they have not already achieved some level of mental understanding that the swing change makes sense on some level. You can think of the golf swing as a 3 dimensional jigsaw puzzle, and a lot of the light bulbs are about seeing through 2D Illusions and understanding how a body part moves relative to an adjacent body part, or how a body part motion influences the motion of the golf club, or how a certain body move creates a better impact condition, or more clubhead speed for more distance, etc.

Feel Channel awareness is often a part of this, but it is not necessary for the initial insight to occur. Later on to deepen that insight the feel can be very important, as long as it is backed up by objective feedback, so that you learn to train your Feel sense to become more accurate, ie to feel what is truly happening.

Deep Insight is not a choice - there is nothing you can to concretely to create it, other than keeping an open mind and asking your teacher lots of questions and just "pondering" your golf swing, which Ben Hogan was famous for doing, just sitting in his favorite chair at home and thinking about his swing and what needed to change for him to be able to strike it better.

My favorite teaching story is from one of my first years doing golf schools, in 1996, I had a student from Portland who at the time was a guy who loved golf but was a struggling 28 handicap. He took our ballstriking boot camp school and made a ton of improvement in this swing and scores fairly quickly, but the one thing he never "got" was how the wrists release on the forward swing. He understood intellectually that the wrists unc0ck perpendicular to the ground, but because the Wrist Illusion was so strong in his conscious and subconscious minds, he still struggled with a pretty big flip at impact. Two years after taking the school he is watching golf on tv, and "sees" Tigers wrists unc0cking down - instead of sideways - has a gigantic light bulb about it, jumps up out of his chair and makes the 5 minute drive to the range, and proceeds to hit the best golf shots of his life, 235 yard carry 3 woods off the deck. He quickly got down to a low singe digit handicap not long after that experience. Two years for that "seed" that was planted in the school to blossom, thats how it works. He pondered it for two years, preparing the ground, before the light bulb went off.

No - its not about trust that the swing change is correct, actually the opposite, its about clarity that the swing change is true and proper, the opposite of trust. No point in trying to implement a change you are not 100% clear about.

[starsail85]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450205187' post='12723986']
[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450198028' post='12723462']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450196046' post='12723316']
[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450184011' post='12722548']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450134708' post='12720600']
Here is the link to the GolfSmarter podcast with host Fred Greene that we did last week. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABTQ6IFGPo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qABTQ6IFGPo[/url]

We had some weird audio issue at the very last minute as Fred was closing the program, and a bit of video freeze at my end, but other than that it went pretty well. Ended up with not a lot of time on the ASI but some other golf swing issues that Fred was interested in talking about, and a lot on the mental side of making swing changes, awareness and focus at the end.

Enjoy....
[/quote]

Enjoyed the podcast , a lot of the information is covered in your audio file on learning golf skills

Curious to hear your thoughts on what a player should be thinking of whilst playing a tournament is the goal to be unconsciously competent regarding producing a golf swing or is it ok to be aware of a singular or overall swing feel that you take into a shot from your practice swings

Also could you go into more depth about this 51% rule , as in once you start repeating a movement more often correctly than incorrectly is starts to become way easier ?

It seems mind boggling just how many quality reps are needed to completely overwrite a old dominant habit and replace it, let's say for example the outwards arm pressure with the right tricep in the golf swing, fairly easy to do with conscious control via keeping awareness on the actual physical arm pressure , but doesn't occur yet without thought as the old dominant habit is stronger than the new one . Kinda frustrating does this illustrate that there has not been enough high quality reps with well placed awareness throughout? During training that is....

I really like the point you make about grip pressure , so easy to overlook but critically important to function
[/quote]

"What you should be thinking about" is what I call the Art of Shotmaking, and is a really Big Deal in golf performance. And there are no universal answers that will work for everyone - you have to go through that process of experimentation to discover what works for you. We have a whole day golf school devoted entirely to this topic called Rip It to the Target! The basic idea is that to maximize your chances of hitting a quality golf shot, certain rules have to be adhered to:1. a neutral to positive emotional state, such as confidence. 2. a clear and narrowly focused mind on a proven effective single focal point (no wandering mind) such as Target Picture, or grip pressure, or Tempo, for example. There are many proven effective focal points that golfers have used to perform well. 3. acting with a unified mind/body from first person perspective, ie NOT giving yourself a "how to do it" lesson, in which case there are "two of you" in your mind, your Inner Golf Teacher and the Student he is "coaching" - you need to act from a sense of unity, like a warrior going into battle. Second or even worse, Third Person perspective creates a weak mind/body connection and a tendency to flinch.4. a consistent, step-by-step routine that you go through, the same way every time.

Swing feels are commonly reported by great players, and are certainly a proven effective focal point, IF they are feels (not visual images or words) and If you are acting from first person.

Yes - in general, it usually takes more reps than we all would like to create a truly dominant habit. That is why it takes patience to make those kinds of swing changes. What can speed that process up is the Deep insight approach, when you truly have the light bulb moment, that lays the groundwork for the reps training to be faster and more efficient. Skipping over the Insight and going straight to the reps training is not a good idea. 51% concept just means there is a tipping point where it becomes noticeably easier to do the new move. And yes - high quality awareness in Feel channel is also a way to make faster progress. Most golfers will tend to let their mind wander when doing the reps, which is just a waste of time.

Grip Pressure is super important fundamental, certainly!
[/quote]

Thanks

Deep insight is a difficult concept for me to get my head around, mainly because it seems to me like there wouldn't be a lightbulb moment on many swing changes

The grip pressure point makes perfect sense you can't hit from the top or be overcome from hit impulse at p6 if you retain original pressure . I understand it and believe in the idea etc

Some things let's say stopping right leg straightening , how would I get this deep insight lightbulb moment on a move like this? Is the lightbulb moment just when you clearly and suddenly understand the move you are trying to produce and suddenly have a tangible feel? I know you have mentioned that you need to have an open and inquiring mind to learn best and not provide resistance to the move you are trying to produce, this makes sense and makes the player more receptive to instruction

How would one obtain deep insight on various swing changes ?

Perhaps my understanding of the term is incorrect but is it like a 100 percent trust in the necessity of the swing change and the importance of the correct move?
[/quote]

The Insight is the end result of a dialogue between teacher and student, which is the essence of the learning process, in any field or skill area.

Now the intensity can vary from as little as a 15 watt night light to a massive supernova explosion of light. But - no one is going to put the practice time in, especially doing the slow mo mirror work, if they have not already achieved some level of mental understanding that the swing change makes sense on some level. You can think of the golf swing as a 3 dimensional jigsaw puzzle, and a lot of the light bulbs are about seeing through 2D Illusions and understanding how a body part moves relative to an adjacent body part, or how a body part motion influences the motion of the golf club, or how a certain body move creates a better impact condition, or more clubhead speed for more distance, etc.

Feel Channel awareness is often a part of this, but it is not necessary for the initial insight to occur. Later on to deepen that insight the feel can be very important, as long as it is backed up by objective feedback, so that you learn to train your Feel sense to become more accurate, ie to feel what is truly happening.

Deep Insight is not a choice - there is nothing you can to concretely to create it, other than keeping an open mind and asking your teacher lots of questions and just "pondering" your golf swing, which Ben Hogan was famous for doing, just sitting in his favorite chair at home and thinking about his swing and what needed to change for him to be able to strike it better.

My favorite teaching story is from one of my first years doing golf schools, in 1996, I had a student from Portland who at the time was a guy who loved golf but was a struggling 28 handicap. He took our ballstriking boot camp school and made a ton of improvement in this swing and scores fairly quickly, but the one thing he never "got" was how the wrists release on the forward swing. He understood intellectually that the wrists unc0ck perpendicular to the ground, but because the Wrist Illusion was so strong in his conscious and subconscious minds, he still struggled with a pretty big flip at impact. Two years after taking the school he is watching golf on tv, and "sees" Tigers wrists unc0cking down - instead of sideways - has a gigantic light bulb about it, jumps up out of his chair and makes the 5 minute drive to the range, and proceeds to hit the best golf shots of his life, 235 yard carry 3 woods off the deck. He quickly got down to a low singe digit handicap not long after that experience. Two years for that "seed" that was planted in the school to blossom, thats how it works. He pondered it for two years, preparing the ground, before the light bulb went off.

No - its not about trust that the swing change is correct, actually the opposite, its about clarity that the swing change is true and proper, the opposite of trust. No point in trying to implement a change you are not 100% clear about.
[/quote]

Interesting stuff

So you can consciously understand and believe a part of the swing but have a different thought on it at the subconscious level

How does one figure out what the subconscious actually thinks ?

[Jim Waldron]

Your question is a very good one, and is really the whole crux of the issue in mastering any skill, especially a complex skill like the golf swing. Every golfer can relate to this issue. You know intellectually what you are doing wrong with your body and club motion, and you know intellectually what you should be doing, but when it comes time to make the shot, you go right back to doing it the wrong way, and their is a feeling of helplessness and frustration.

William James, the founder of American psychology, said at the turn of the last century "In a conflict between Will (conscious mind) and the Imagination (subconscious mind), Imagination always wins."

Freud said that the purpose of psychoanalysis was "to make the Unconscious conscious."

I think really good teachers have an intuitive ability to help their students access their unconscious beliefs, mental pictures, and concepts.

I ask a lot of questions when working with a new student, and that gives a picture of the student's subconscious Swing Map, or set of mental images, beliefs and swing concepts that the person holds.

[ofortuna]

In my case, I discovered that when I intend to hit the golf ball, my subconscious has determined that I need to slide my upper body forward in order to not hit behind the ball. No matter what I did, I couldn't get my upper body to stay back. However when I changed my intention of hitting ball first to not caring if I hit a foot behind the ball, it was very easy to keep my upper body back on the downswing.

So I would swing feeling like I was going to hit a foot behind the ball but was shocked that I mostly hit ball first. After repeating this a few times I taking the first steps towards reprogramming my subconscious.

Do these steps make sense?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1450232633' post='12725744']
In my case, I discovered that when I intend to hit the golf ball, my subconscious has determined that I need to slide my upper body forward in order to not hit behind the ball. No matter what I did, I couldn't get my upper body to stay back. However when I changed my intention of hitting ball first to not caring if I hit a foot behind the ball, it was very easy to keep my upper body back on the downswing.

So I would swing feeling like I was going to hit a foot behind the ball but was shocked that I mostly hit ball first. After repeating this a few times I taking the first steps towards reprogramming my subconscious.

Do these steps make sense?
[/quote]

Yes - your insight makes perfect sense. And this is how weird and strange the whole golf improvement process can sometimes be, a ton of paradoxes and intentions at conscious mind level sometimes creating the opposite extreme at the subconscious mind level, and then how your body behaves.

I like the computer analogy a lot: the notion that you are creating new "programs" to install into your "computer" (subconscious mind).

[starsail85]

Jim

Interested in how the spine angle changes to accommodate different clubs

I know that the driver is more upright and the wedge is more bent over that all makes sense but is this designed to create the same angle between the club and the right forearm at address? If so what is this angle ?

I have been noticing that I have been trying to achieve the same spine angle at impact with a driver as a wedge which now I think about it is pointless as it would require less of an angle between the arm and the club shaft at impact than a shorter club

Just looking for a few definites over the set up position / procedure in terms of arm and club alignments at address

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450299315' post='12728614']
Jim

Interested in how the spine angle changes to accommodate different clubs

I know that the driver is more upright and the wedge is more bent over that all makes sense but is this designed to create the same angle between the club and the right forearm at address? If so what is this angle ?

I have been noticing that I have been trying to achieve the same spine angle at impact with a driver as a wedge which now I think about it is pointless as it would require less of an angle between the arm and the club shaft at impact than a shorter club

Just looking for a few definites over the set up position / procedure in terms of arm and club alignments at address
[/quote]

The change in Spine Angle is just to accommodate the change in shaft length and lie angle differences between clubs, You want a mostly "level left wrist" with all clubs,ie not arched up and not pre-c0cked low hands and you also want to have the right amount of arm hang at setup, ie hands a bit farther from body with driver than a wedge. That way you are only making an adjustment to arm hang and spine angle and rightward tilt as far as body changes.

[starsail85]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450302804' post='12728828']
[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450299315' post='12728614']
Jim

Interested in how the spine angle changes to accommodate different clubs

I know that the driver is more upright and the wedge is more bent over that all makes sense but is this designed to create the same angle between the club and the right forearm at address? If so what is this angle ?

I have been noticing that I have been trying to achieve the same spine angle at impact with a driver as a wedge which now I think about it is pointless as it would require less of an angle between the arm and the club shaft at impact than a shorter club

Just looking for a few definites over the set up position / procedure in terms of arm and club alignments at address
[/quote]

The change in Spine Angle is just to accommodate the change in shaft length and lie angle differences between clubs, You want a mostly "level left wrist" with all clubs,ie not arched up and not pre-c0cked low hands and you also want to have the right amount of arm hang at setup, ie hands a bit farther from body with driver than a wedge. That way you are only making an adjustment to arm hang and spine angle and rightward tilt as far as body changes.
[/quote]

That's interesting Jim , so do you not advocate vertically hanging arms then?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450303865' post='12728884']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1450302804' post='12728828']
[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1450299315' post='12728614']
Jim

Interested in how the spine angle changes to accommodate different clubs

I know that the driver is more upright and the wedge is more bent over that all makes sense but is this designed to create the same angle between the club and the right forearm at address? If so what is this angle ?

I have been noticing that I have been trying to achieve the same spine angle at impact with a driver as a wedge which now I think about it is pointless as it would require less of an angle between the arm and the club shaft at impact than a shorter club

Just looking for a few definites over the set up position / procedure in terms of arm and club alignments at address
[/quote]

The change in Spine Angle is just to accommodate the change in shaft length and lie angle differences between clubs, You want a mostly "level left wrist" with all clubs,ie not arched up and not pre-c0cked low hands and you also want to have the right amount of arm hang at setup, ie hands a bit farther from body with driver than a wedge. That way you are only making an adjustment to arm hang and spine angle and rightward tilt as far as body changes.
[/quote]

That's interesting Jim , so do you not advocate vertically hanging arms then?
[/quote]

I teach three arm hang positions: 6 through LW, about one palm width from inside of left thigh to butt end of club; long irons, fairway woods and hybrids - about 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 palm widths, and driver 1 1/2 to 2 widths. And setting up with toe more off the ground as clubs get longer.

That equates to a lead upper arm that is mostly 90 degrees to the ground, for most folks, for the first arm hang position I listed.

[flopshot99]

What's the next set of videos and approx times sir

[4pillars]

[quote name='flopshot99' timestamp='1450604902' post='12742716']
What's the next set of videos and approx times sir
[/quote]

I can't see part D on the site. Will it be out before Xmas?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1450646044' post='12744330']
[quote name='flopshot99' timestamp='1450604902' post='12742716']
What's the next set of videos and approx times sir
[/quote]

I can't see part D on the site. Will it be out before Xmas?
[/quote]

We were hoping to get Part D out this week, and it still might happen, depends on our webmaster's workload this week. If he can't get to it in this shorter holiday work week, then the following week.

Module 3 editing started last week. Probably end of January to get that one up for download. Module Three is Advanced Arm Mechanics and starts where Module 2 on the Arm Swing Illusion leaves off: a lot of technical detail on both upper arm and forearm mechanics, for both backswing and forward swing, including Release mechanics, my Key Move/Back Up concept, more on Connection, etc.

Happy Holidays everyone!

[Jim Waldron]

Some food for thought for those of you contemplating a New Year's resolution to truly breakthrough to better golf.

These are some of the basic coaching principles that I have used for the past 25 years to help thousands of golfers breakthrough to better golf.

One of the really tough things for average golfers especially is knowing how to distinguish between what is really not very important at all, what is moderately important, and what is really very important.

1. a conscious mind that is free from over-thinking and over-effort, and has some degree of trust in the subconscious mind to create the body motion, which will create the club motion free of steering and of the hit impulse. Which does not mean that you don't need to work on your mechanics, it means that when you step on the first tee, it is too late to "give yourself a swing lesson " - one of Hogan's favorite sayings. When your conscious mind interferes by thinking too much or trying too hard - you flinch. A question I always ask new students - "Which would you rather have, your currently flawed swing with a flinch added on top of it, or that same flawed swing without a flinch?"

2. if you are truly commited to long term score improvement, and your handicap is right around 10 or higher, your best choice should be to work on your ballstriking skills. Hitting more greens and fairways will have a significant effect on your scores. If you lack the time, discipline or patience for long term swing changes, and would prefer to play golf instead of practice, then work on improving in just three key areas that will not take a whole lot of practice to get better. Short putts of two to six feet. Chip shots. Short hi traj pitches of 10-35 yards. If you own a home with a large yard, you can practice the chips and pitches in the yard, and the short putts on your living room carpet. No need to go to the range. If a small yard, you can still hit chips there, and putt inside. So from both a scoring standpoint (better chips and pitches that end up within 6 feet or less of the hole match up with short putt skills) and from a time efficiency standpoint (no need to travel to the range or course), this can be very effective.

3. If your ballstriking is good enough to shoot 85-100, and you have no interest, time, or patience for making technical swing changes, you can still make significant improvement in your long game by working on just the following foundation fundamentals,j and none of them require you to strike a ball, as long as you have someplace at home where you can swing at full speed:

A. grip position, grip pressure, hand/club unity. If your grip has either of the following elements, you can easily change to a better grip with just a few minutes a day of home practice: if either hand is rotated to an extreme weak of strong position relative to the clubface, you will likely have face angle control issues, which can create both starting direction and curvature issues, and can also affect your release in a bad way. If either hand is coming loose or changing position or the handle is slipping, you will also have face angle problems. You need to focus on keeping your hands working together as a unit with no change in finger pressure or handle slippage. Baby finger of left hand and right thumb pad losing contact with left thumb are two common issues. Having a fairly light overall pressure is something to strive for and with no changes during the swing. Most of my students have way too tight a pressure. Both of these "pressure" issues are mostly about feel awareness, ie not stuff to think about but stuff to be aware of.

B. Poor Setup - very common problem area. No point in working on your technical inswing flaws if your Setup is poor. Take a lesson focusing solely on just your Setup and get it right, like a pro.

C. Poor aim and alignment - very common flaw.

D. Balance - if you can learn to swing in rock-solid Balance from start to your finish, it will have a really positive effect on your swing and shot.

3. Tempo - learn to time your swing so that the elapsed time is the same from start to finish, around 1.5 seconds. You can buy digital metronomes online or in your local music store that you can set to beep at 1.5 second interval. Understand that all of your long game shots should ideally take this same exact time interval to complete. Use your driver swing as the baseline for all of the other clubs in your bag. A lot of mechanical errors can become less destructive when your tempo is spot on. Hit and Steering Impulses are also toned down in toxicity with good Tempo.

4. Vision. Practice focusing your gaze on a blade of grass about 2-3 inches in front of the ball (or any soft object you can use in the yard as a ball substitute like a rolled up sock) and keep your gaze there until you see a blur pass over your aiming point/line of sight, ie the blur of the clubhead. Only then rotate your head up to watch the imaginary ball flight. This helps you keep your head steady - a really important fundamenta.

Happy New Year everyone!

Jim

[flopshot99]

Happy holidays jim...keep vids coming..pretty awesome post.

[starsail85]

I have been playing around with the power grip and whilst I can't make any full swings at the minute due to weather and injury I can see how this is an improvement on my old grip. I was a short left thumb grip as per hogan recommendations in an effort to keep the swing more compact, but this grip feels like it allows a lot more wrist set. It also meshes the hands together a lot better, my right hand now sits nicely on top of the left thumb and unifies the grip. The old grip felt like the right hand didn't quite fit

I'm gonna try the non tapered/reduced taper grip as an experiment also

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='starsail85' timestamp='1451677600' post='12789118']
I have been playing around with the power grip and whilst I can't make any full swings at the minute due to weather and injury I can see how this is an improvement on my old grip. I was a short left thumb grip as per hogan recommendations in an effort to keep the swing more compact, but this grip feels like it allows a lot more wrist set. It also meshes the hands together a lot better, my right hand now sits nicely on top of the left thumb and unifies the grip. The old grip felt like the right hand didn't quite fit

I'm gonna try the non tapered/reduced taper grip as an experiment also
[/quote]

Power Grip is best choice for most players, for precisely the reasons you stated. More clubhead speed due to more effective range of motion in the wrists, and more hand unity. Non-tapered or nearly so are far superior in my view to standard tapered grips.

[Jim Waldron]

Module One Part D is up!!

Available to download here: [url="http://www.balancepointgolf.com/index.php/pro-shop/golf-videos"]http://www.balancepo...hop/golf-videos[/url]

The trailer for Part D is here: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEya3UtKkbc"]https://www.youtube....h?v=tEya3UtKkbc[/url]

Two hours and 15 minutes viewing time, so this is the longest video in Module One.

This video completes our Module One on the foundation fundamentals of the golf swing, and mastering the craft of ballstriking. There are four videos in Module One for a total viewing time of almost eight hours.

Part D topics include: drills and cures for the very common path flaw of "over the top (OTT), advanced Setup elements, steady head, vision in the golf swing (where to focus your gaze and where not to!), my Three Postural Braces for better stability and balance in the golf swing, proper grip pressure, "Connection" concept and drills, mini-swing ballstriking drill, swing plane drills, and several Swing Map and ballstriking drills. About half of the video is devoted to the Setup - including the Postural Braces - since there are many details that you need to get right about Setup to maximize your chances of performing a good body motion once the swing starts.

Happy New Year to all!

[rteach1]

Jim,

The download link did not work for me. I sent an e-mail on the contact page, but thought you might like to receive this information directly, in case there is a general issue.

rteach1

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='rteach1' timestamp='1451694962' post='12790090']
Jim,

The download link did not work for me. I sent an e-mail on the contact page, but thought you might like to receive this information directly, in case there is a general issue.

rteach1
[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up, R. In the meantime, best to order the HD version, as we have had no issues reported with folks using that option, ie choose HD instead of DVD, same price, just a larger file in the HD version. The e-commerce software system we are using did an update recently and had a bug in it, which happens occassionally. We do have a Plan B in place when that happens where we manually send the video link via Google Drive. I think fairly soon we will stop offering the DVD quality option, as internet speeds are increasing, and the download time difference between DVD quality and HD is not that huge in any case.

[span3636]

I have always had trouble bringing the club back inside. Maybe I will try this.

[starsail85]

Not sure if this has been covered in the earlier pages, but how big of a factor is speed of pivot on backswing to the push away move?

 

At slow training speeds is it more of an active arm powered push away and at full speed is the push away more from momentum?

 

If so I could see how a slow backswing speed could be a detrimental factor....

[Jim Waldron]

Not sure if this has been covered in the earlier pages, but how big of a factor is speed of pivot on backswing to the push away move?

 

At slow training speeds is it more of an active arm powered push away and at full speed is the push away more from momentum?

 

If so I could see how a slow backswing speed could be a detrimental factor....

 

Always a blend of pivot momentum and independent arm motion. The arm motion is tiny - about 4-6 inches for most folks, a bit more for tall golfers.

[starsail85]

Not sure if this has been covered in the earlier pages, but how big of a factor is speed of pivot on backswing to the push away move?

 

At slow training speeds is it more of an active arm powered push away and at full speed is the push away more from momentum?

 

If so I could see how a slow backswing speed could be a detrimental factor....

 

Always a blend of pivot momentum and independent arm motion. The arm motion is tiny - about 4-6 inches for most folks, a bit more for tall golfers.

 

Yes, it's all making sense now, the pushaway direction has always made sense to me, but I've done it by folding my arm too early . It's actually very easy to do once I've finally got it right, perfectly on plane backswing , without any real attempt at manipulating the wrists, it just happens.

 

I guess in my mind it's confirmed the ASI even more because i can't see the pushaway move watching video but I know it's happening

[Jim Waldron]

Not sure if this has been covered in the earlier pages, but how big of a factor is speed of pivot on backswing to the push away move?

 

At slow training speeds is it more of an active arm powered push away and at full speed is the push away more from momentum?

 

If so I could see how a slow backswing speed could be a detrimental factor....

 

Always a blend of pivot momentum and independent arm motion. The arm motion is tiny - about 4-6 inches for most folks, a bit more for tall golfers.

 

Yes, it's all making sense now, the pushaway direction has always made sense to me, but I've done it by folding my arm too early . It's actually very easy to do once I've finally got it right, perfectly on plane backswing , without any real attempt at manipulating the wrists, it just happens.

 

I guess in my mind it's confirmed the ASI even more because i can't see the pushaway move watching video but I know it's happening

 

Yes - you literally cannot "see it" ( unless from overhead camera view then it is clear as day in slow mo) which is why I call it a powerful optical illusion, a 2D illusion of the eyes and the mind. And keeping the right arm straight until hands pass waist high is key to the pushaway move. And if you blend that arm move with the proper Pivot (rotation and left side tilt) and with wrist action (blend of hinging and c0cking), the shaft tracks back perfectly on plane. Impossible to be stuck or too be too outside - avoids both extremes.