Putters vs Putting Cleeks

[ebeer]

I've been looking at some new putter options for my hickory play set. I had an obismal day on the greens yesterday, and it must be the putter....it couldn't possibly be me right? ha ha ha

 

I'm looking a few putters of personal interest to me. One is a putting cleek. I assume that a putting cleek is not as lofted as a standard cleek. However is it more lofted than a standard putter of that era? Any advantages to playing a putting cleek over a putter? Appreciate any thoughts.

[stixman]

I feel for your pain, brother!

I have no solutions, only observations in a stream of consciousness way.
Putters need loft to lift the ball out of the depression (I've got one of those) in the grass created by it's weight, typically these days about 3 or 4 degrees I'm told.
Fact.. hickory era, Bobby Jones putter, Calamity Jane, had 7 degrees of loft. Greens in the 1930s were not as finely prepared as they are today.
Fact... although putting cleeks were supposed to have more loft than general putters, standards and quality control meant that manufacturers batches varied so the terms were relatively meaningless. Also, most heads were forged and adjusting loft was easy.
Consequence...you were on your own in finding a putter which suited you on the greens you mostly played on, bit like today really.
My personal choice is a New Ray Mills alloy putter which has had the face filed to reduce the loft, which helps on quicker greens, but I still have bad days .
I have a Vickers putting cleek with 7 degrees of loft and a bottom weighted profile for early season bumpy greens with patchy growth. I believe it helps, and that's what counts (for me)

[Bella Woods]

ebeer:

I have a Hillerich & Bradsby Par XL hickory putter with 10 degrees loft that
I use as an "approach putter" (much like the putting cleek you mention I suppose).

Normally from the fringe of the green on a long putt/chip - my normal hickory putter
has about 6 or 7 degrees loft (Spalding HB).

Edit:

I would not want to use the approach putter on the shorter putts though because of
the loft - its almost like a "chipper"

[Bella Woods]

ebeer:

I checked out the putting cleeks (many - 6 or 7) listed in the Ralph Livingston Tom
Stewart book - between 7 and 15 degrees loft in various styles, most in the 10 to
12 degree range.

I am assuming other makers had putters in the same loft range and purpose (like
my H & B even though its not listed as a putting cleek/approach putter specifically
I don't think in their catalogs).

[ebeer]

Hey thanks for the info. I've not yet purchased the Livingston book. Do you happen to have any details on a Tom Stewart labeled EE Foord (I assume Ernest Foord). It has Putting Cleek written on the toe vertically, and Special under the EE Foord stamp. The face is dot punched. Thanks!

[Bella Woods]

Based on a little research - E.E. Foord was a customer of Tom Stewart.
He was the professional at Burnham & Berrow Golf Club(Somerset County in South
West England)during the period 1903-1917. The golf club has a website online.
So the club you reference is an old timer - complete with the dot punched face.

J. H. Taylor was the first head pro in 1891.

As far as the putting cleek - the cleek putting style was popular in those days,
it was said to give the player more options. On smoother greens the players hands
would be placed forward in the stroke to de-loft the club and get the
ball rolling smoothly, on bumpy/rough greens it would be held normally and the
extra loft would "raise the ball above the roughness".

Improved course conditions and turf management precipitated the demise of the
putting cleek.

I think Harry Vardon was a cleek style putter but I am not positive.

[majic]

Wow Bella you knocked it dead. If you look at all the pictures of the guys around 1900-1915 they all had an open stance and very hands forward type stroke allowing for the ball to get up and rolling and as the ball would impact a little higher in the face the "putting cleek" was made. Since they also were very handsy they could put from as far off the green as they wanted with this club. Very handy. I used a putting cleek - P A Vaile model by Gibson this year at Mid Pines and with their new grasses it worked well. Tad