Why Hogan's swing was so great.

[Dinosaur]

just testing the 75 post rule, no need to post anything at the present time unless I see that I can add something relevant, but its nice to know I can.

[Shaggie]

uhhuh

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1388873521' post='8398393']
Hogan was not the first to say it is all in the hands But some instructors will talk about body positions and upright or flat one plane stack and slide hip stall early lag left heel right eye over the pronation ground force kinetic vardons grip on a wool suit dominance and you hit it great for a week. see him later because he is the Pro and justify his phlliposy. But it is all about putting noone talks about it here and we all gotta make money right? I just like to figure out how to make it and what people do to get their gold
So I do not blame anyone for making a buck [quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1388859700' post='8397321']
[quote name='dodger' timestamp='1380725932' post='7942223']
Pretty interesting that in 2013 we are still breaking down Hogan's swing as if it holds a key for the rest of us. Probably why handicaps have not dropped despite science, technology... Hogan did not hit every green, was not a terrible putter according to those who played with him in the forties and fifties, and copying his swing has led more golfers to ruin than to greatness. The following is what we can take from Hogan. First, he approached golf in a single minded obsession that as he indicated was designed to make money and survive. Second, he was without question the best dressed golfer ever, he always looked like a professional. Finally, he knew he could be more successful with his mouth shut than open, which is a skill most of us never learn. One should never underestimate what a great athlete he was either. To play like he did after having massive orthopedic injuries is proof of extreme athleticism. The grip change, pronation and whatever else anyone talks about swingwise is fluff. He was a great golfer, one of the three best of all time. He would have won more if not hurt. However his swing holds no secret or key for the rest of us anymore than Nicklaus, Woods, Nelson, Snead or Jones. Take a great athlete, tell them to figure out a way to get a ball in the hole, throw in hunger and desire, and you can get a pretty good golfer. I have seen Monte Scheinblum hit golf balls on video. I appreciate he knows a ton of technique and is a great instructor. But, his talent comes from his being an athlete. He looks different. I played golf a couple times with a NFL hall of famer. He has a really strong grip because he has a bad hand from playing football. He does not hit driver because he cannot get it airborne. But, he shoots in the seventies and hits a four iron 250 yards. He is an athlete. All those of us who have never played a sport well and think we are going to learn some technique from video of a golfer fifteen years dead and be a two handicap are chasing a unicorn.We will never be a better golfer than our athleticism allows, regardless of technique, instruction, effort...
[/quote]

I can't decide whether I agree with you or not ;-) but it certainly has me thinking, as it was a new approach that is helping transform my own swing. If I may bore you for a second and recount my own mis-adventures...... hacking away as usual I became frustrated and wondered why I couldn't swing a golf club as effortlessly as I could throw a ball. I grew up playing cricket and generally being quite active so throwing a ball with power and accuracy is second nature to me. What I came to realise is that the my pivot and weight transfer was totally instinctual and automated prior to the snap of arm. Just great sequencing. This line of thinking got me focused on the pivot and sequencing in my golf swing and it has taken me on a fun journey. Focus being the operative word here as it took small shifts in it to quicklyunlock my latent athletic potential and start administering it to a golf club. Of course this got me wondering how easy (or easier) this game had the potential of being when approached in the right way mentally. But I also wondered about the relevance of my experience for those individuals who have no sporting base to draw upon....... for instance if you could never throw a ball well what chance do you have a swinging a golf club in a pleasing way? For those who can, they think throwing a ball is easy surely, now try doing it with your other hand............. ;-)
[/quote]
[/quote]

As a generalization teachers should stop focusing on creating a method, and instead focus on creating results. I will pay for one and not the other.

[tembolo1284]

Dinosaur that was funny.

[Shaggie]

The only method there is to swing a club properly is to have your hands move in a perfect as possible semi circle with the highest rate of speed being at impact and hands moving through semi circle
This is old stuff basic aeronautical rollercoaster stuff
Read hogans secret page 3

Think hand path not club head path
Just my 2 million dollars worth

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389028405' post='8408507']
Dinosaur that was funny.
[/quote]

uhhuh

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Dinosaur' timestamp='1389057248' post='8412079']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389028405' post='8408507']
Dinosaur that was funny.
[/quote]

uhhuh
[/quote]

Salami.

[BTP]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389046241' post='8410825']
The only method there is to swing a club properly is to have your hands move in a perfect as possible semi circle with the highest rate of speed being at impact and hands moving through semi circle
This is old stuff basic aeronautical rollercoaster stuff
Read hogans secret page 3

Think hand path not club head path
Just my 2 million dollars worth
[/quote]

Thanks for the attachment. Fun read and very helpful.

[Shaggie]

[quote name='BTP' timestamp='1389059155' post='8412315']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389046241' post='8410825']
The only method there is to swing a club properly is to have your hands move in a perfect as possible semi circle with the highest rate of speed being at impact and hands moving through semi circle
This is old stuff basic aeronautical rollercoaster stuff
Read hogans secret page 3

Think hand path not club head path
Just my 2 million dollars worth
[/quote]

Thanks for the attachment. Fun read and very helpful.
[/quote]
Thank you for the positive feedback
you are the first poster here to acknowledge it
Sometime you have to go back and reread some things just to confirm what was originally said
People try to guess Hogans secret when it is right there in black and white
He told us
His theory is not new

[BTP]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389059685' post='8412401']
[quote name='BTP' timestamp='1389059155' post='8412315']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389046241' post='8410825']
The only method there is to swing a club properly is to have your hands move in a perfect as possible semi circle with the highest rate of speed being at impact and hands moving through semi circle
This is old stuff basic aeronautical rollercoaster stuff
Read hogans secret page 3

Think hand path not club head path
Just my 2 million dollars worth
[/quote]

Thanks for the attachment. Fun read and very helpful.
[/quote]
Thank you for the positive feedback
you are the first poster here to acknowledge it
Sometime you have to go back and reread some things just to confirm what was originally said
People try to guess Hogans secret when it is right there in black and white
He told us
His theory is not new
[/quote]

Amen. I simply wanted to acknowledge it with my first post.
I went to the backyard net with a 4iron after reading the 3rd page and I literally was roping the ball with effortless power. I then proceeded to hit long iron after long iron, then on to fairway woods, and a 7iron all with the same success. I went back into the house and jokingly told my loved ones, "Change of plans - I'm going golf pro."
His athletic ability, coordination, and kinesthetic awareness and ability to weight shift very efficiently (never mind the tremendous hard work) allowed him to play at such a high level. The hands position was what he found to be his secret for his swing. I suppose that is too simple for people to understand though and kills conversation...

[tembolo1284]

What's going on here?

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389100047' post='8414437']
What's going on here?
[/quote]

Darned if I know, but its a short drive from NYC to Erie PA.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Dinosaur' timestamp='1389114563' post='8415819']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389100047' post='8414437']
What's going on here?
[/quote]

Darned if I know, but its a short drive from NYC to Erie PA.
[/quote]

It's a long drive in this cold.

[Shaggie]

Please read it all
especially page 3 when he talks about rolling his hands back and rolling the hands through and being so excited about this idea that is so old that it is new that he could not sleep or wait to hit balls the next day
I am always amused when I read stories about how Jack Fleck Aor anyone else won with his secret and Hogan saying "I dont know what it was but it was not the secret"
And remember it was his "secret" not his idea
And thats all I am going to say about that

[Dinosaur]

To the notion that Hogan turned his hands and rolled back on the BS, sort of laying off at the top is not unlike Lee Trevino's figure eight motion but on a different plane and not quite as pronounced. I do not have that keen of an eye, and the old videos of Hogan are a little hard to discern in detail without calling in Abby Shuto of NCIS to clean them up a bit and isolate all the frames. Trevino had a long sweeping figure eight, fairly parallel to the ground, while others did much of the same thing, but a lot tighter and on a more of an upright plane. The same thing could be achieved by "dropping" into the slot, which phrase in of itself provokes controversial dialogue. The more I think about chasing this Holy Grail of secret of secrets, the more I am convinced of the futility of it and in the end it is meaningless to any other person except that to whom it is attributed. In fact, having only recently achieved 75 posts that enable me to post here, I now have to ask my self, why? and why the need for a sub forum anyway, but alas, I am "new". Not so different than persons who do not ride motorcycles wonder what the allure is, the mystique of Harley Davidson for example. All pointless. (except to those who do).

[Shaggie]

[quote name='Dinosaur' timestamp='1389144980' post='8419135']
To the notion that Hogan turned his hands and rolled back on the BS, sort of laying off at the top is not unlike Lee Trevino's figure eight motion but on a different plane and not quite as pronounced. I do not have that keen of an eye, and the old videos of Hogan are a little hard to discern in detail without calling in Abby Shuto of NCIS to clean them up a bit and isolate all the frames. Trevino had a long sweeping figure eight, fairly parallel to the ground, while others did much of the same thing, but a lot tighter and on a more of an upright plane. The same thing could be achieved by "dropping" into the slot, which phrase in of itself provokes controversial dialogue. The more I think about chasing this Holy Grail of secret of secrets, the more I am convinced of the futility of it and in the end it is meaningless to any other person except that to whom it is attributed. In fact, having only recently achieved 75 posts that enable me to post here, I now have to ask my self, why? and why the need for a sub forum anyway, but alas, I am "new". Not so different than persons who do not ride motorcycles wonder what the allure is, the mystique of Harley Davidson for example. All pointless. (except to those who do).
[/quote]

I totally agree
When people can hide behind the the big curtain their true personality comes out
It is not fun to read
And I have been guilty of it also
Golf is played with a different set of rules
you call penalties on yourself and I cant think of any other sport that does that

Remember he said it was his secret not his idea
I

[Shaggie]

The only method there is to swing a club properly is to have your hands move in a perfect as possible semi circle with the highest rate of speed being at impact and hands moving through semi circle

This is old stuff basic aeronautical rollercoaster stuff

Read hogans secret page 3

 

Think hand path not club head path

Just my 2 million dollars worth

[Shaggie]

Here is Hogans secret. Life Magazine article again. If you watch video on recent thread about Hogan which has another video of Mac Ogrady

 

Hogan is mumbling at the end about exactly what he said in the article on not being able to sleep and wanting to get to golf course and try this thought

Which was roll forearms bac and roll through. Read the life article

Even Barkow paraphrases it wrong

[oscar@wrx]

Here is Hogans secret. Life Magazine article again. If you watch video on recent thread about Hogan which has another video of Mac Ogrady

 

Hogan is mumbling at the end about exactly what he said in the article on not being able to sleep and wanting to get to golf course and try this thought

Which was roll forearms bac and roll through. Read the life article

Even Barkow paraphrases it wrong

IMO, the most damaging of all Hogan "secrets". Should only be done if you also have Hogan's combo of very very quick backswing and inside handpath

[oscar@wrx]

I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

 

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

 

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

 

That is my 2 cents.

A really great description of the man's swing

[Harleyweedwhacks]

Hogan hit a fade. His miss was obviously right.

 

I'd also argue that Sam Snead was more of an athlete than Hogan. Snead could do things with his body at age 75 that Hogan couldn't dream of doing at age 35. Snead would consistently drive it over 300 in his prime, Hogan couldn't get it past 240.

 

I'd also say that the classic golf swing model is more athletic than the modern swing. Resisting the hip turn and twisting the spine isn't athletic, in fact not only is it not athletic, it's anatomically incorrect. The release of the leading heel is athletic, and just good footwork. In other sports we see this, especially in baseball, where batters tend to release the front foot during the windup, or even during ready position. In throwing a javelin the thrower uses his hips more than his upper body for power, and releases his front foot to allow for power and accuracy. Golfers of yesteryear allowed the leading heel to rise a bit on the backswing, because it's proper athletic motion. Hogan raised his heel a bit, so he wasn't restricting his hip turn. He might have not lifted it much, but it was there.

 

Whatever Monte is talking about with the rotating arms nonsense (I have no idea what the hell he's even talking about) is just another theory. All that matters are the fundamentals, basic grip, stance (foot flare, stance alignment), good spinal posture, proper shoulder and full hip turn, leading heel release, and hitting through the ball. The basics are all that matter. All this nonsense about forearm or general arm rotation, pronating the wrists, whatever, is all just extra stuff, mostly idiosyncrasies rather than fundamentals.