Junior Executive - LA/OC

[___scotto___]

I live in manhattan beach and believe the eventual buy in for pvgc/Virginia/rolling hills will all be too steep at $70k+ unless that may be negotiable. Any recommendations for a private club a little father out? I think I’d prefer go south or East rather than fight traffic over the hill to the valley. Hacienda seems appealing. Anyone have a similar experience or recommendations? Otherwise, I may do PVGC and figure I’ll have 7-8 years as a junior member until I have to bite the bullet and pay the full initiation.

[tw422]

I live in Manhattan Beach and went through the same exercise you're going through. Hacienda is a great course and the deal they were offering at the time was fantastic. Ultimately it was just too far for me to justify joining. However, Old Ranch is probably worth considering. The course is good (although not as good as VCC/PVGC/Rolling Hills) but the facilities and amenities are nice. All of the members I met were friendly and welcoming. They are offering good deals and it's a short drive down the 405. Unfortunately we are locked into an area where the choice of private golf is going to be $$$$$. Not much else to consider unless you are willing to go further south into OC.

[KParks]

Yeah, private golf options on the westside of LA are few or uber-$$$.

That being said I literally today just pulled the trigger on joining up at Mountaingate. Happy to give you more info over DM if you want. Obviously not all the way over the hill into the valley but still a trek from where you are down in MB (I live in the Palisades so much more convenient for me). As a corporate owned club, MG is much cheaper on the initiation with the caveat that it obviously isn't equity that you'll be able to get back some day (although I think the full membership is 50% transferable, the Junior Exec, AKA under 40, membership isn't transferable at all, although it credits against the increased initiation to a full membership when you turn 40).

[RRstein82]

South Bay is tough for private golf dude. As you noticed, the obvious option in PV are pricey. There's actually a lot of guys from MB at Wilshire, which is a great club. Think their junior membership is $40k, but not due up front. You said you don't want to drive up to the valley, which is fair, but you're limiting yourself from two solid options in El Cab and Lakeside.

[jsmith91]

@KParks How has your experience been at MG? I played it awhile back and remember I liked one of the nines way more than the other that I played. Wasnt in love with the range but it might be the best option for me. I live in the fairfax district so it is not too far.
@RRstein82 Do you know if El Cab or Lakeside have Junior programs? I have played El Cab and it's a great track with tough greens but have yet to play Lakeside. A friend of mine caddies there and thinks it would be the course for me. Also have some friends at wilshire and will check in there. But ideally will join somewhere this summer.

thanks

[KParks]

5 full months in (though lost nearly 3 to COVID) and I'm pretty happy (definitely happy with what you get for what you pay, which, relatively speaking isn't that much compared to other courses on the west side). I've got my favorites of the three 9s already (imo, South best, then North, Lake last, although South #9 is by far the worst single hole on the course). A few more pros/cons:

Almost everyone that I've met has been very friendly (I can only think of 2 old codgers that have been grumps, and I figure you are going to have at least someone like that everywhere). FWIW, being relatively young (36) I appreciate that there are a decent (although not huge) number of other younger members and they have all been super chill. We've got a bit of weird tee time system, which is then even more messed up right now because of COVID, but it works well enough, as a single I've never had a problem getting early weekend tee times (having a young kid at home, this is really the only time I can find time to play 18, I just squeeze in 9 hole rounds other times) even though I haven't found a regular game yet, I have been invited to some, just my schedule is pretty particular and early. Having the three 9s also makes it really easy to get out for a quick 9 holes before/after work as it doesn't mess with the tee sheet. Given the relatively low cost and low barriers to entry (you can pay, you get in basically), the course does have a lot of members and sees a lot of play so it is rarely empty, but I've never found a time that it is impossible to get out either (other than the first weekend back after COVID).The range is definitely the weakest area of the club. Decently sized (never have had a problem having a spot, even on tournament days) but we have to rotate between mats and grass based on something (I honestly haven't figured it out, maybe days of the week? ground conditions? whatever they feel like that day?) and the balls are limited flight. Short game area is smallish but works --> Mid range pitching area that also has a decent bunker, smaller chipping only green, and then an ok sized putting green. Also have a small putting green over by the other two nines as well (so you've got a putting green relatively close to each starting tee at least). Definitely among the weaker practice facilities compared to private and resort courses I've played around the country/world... but (sadly?) not actually that bad for Los Angeles. I mean Brentwood and Bel-Air also have tiny ranges with limited flight golf balls, and while I've gotten to hit off grass the couple of times I played Brentwood, I've also had to hit off of mats the couple of times I played Bel-Air (not sure again, how/if they rotate between grass and mats) and those are $100k+ initiation places (I think maybe even closer to $200k nowadays). They are just finishing a refresh of the clubhouse which is pretty nice (not going to knock your socks off probably, but definitely good). Food for breakfast/lunch is pretty good (although not near as good as Bel-Air, the food there is AWESOME), but haven't had a chance to try dinner yet (thanks COVID! Also traffic trying to get anywhere in LA in the evenings). Got the little free things that make it feel like a private club (free coffee, bagels, toaster, spreads and fruit you can just grab and go with in the mornings on weekends). Finally, would note that while it took them a couple of tries to figure it out, AmericanGolf did do right by the members during the COVID shutdown. During the "full" shutdown months (March, April and May I think? I'm honestly losing track, although we are in a more or less fully reopened golf state now with some social distancing measures) they charged us 80% of our dues BUT everything that we paid for dues during those shutdown months we get as credit to use on food, cart fees, merchandise, guest fees (basically anything except dues) going forward (no expiration). Also suspended all F&B minimums. Compared to what I've heard from the big equity clubs where they were just still charging full dues, no discounts, no credits or anything it is great. Obviously they are some downsides to being a corporate owned club, but with this at least they did well.

If you are interested in more info feel free to drop me a PM and if you are serious about joining and don't know somebody that is already a member let me know (we have a referral program we can use to get you a reduction in initiation).

[jsmith91]

@KParks Really appreciate you taking the time here! If 9 is the hole that comes back toward the range around the mountain I remember it being horrible lol.
All of that information is extremely helpful, I am looking to join somewhere later this summer, waiting on a bit more info and the options hinge on a few deals I am working on. I think it will probably come down to Mountaingate or Wilshire. Lakeside might be the aspiration spot but not sure how realistic that is. If I do choose MG I will certainly reach out. Again, really appreciate the insight and offer.

[KParks]

Yep, that is South #9! Hard dog leg left Par 5 around the side of the mountain, narrow fairway with a huge drop off (meaning if you go through the fairway at all it drops off into a bad spot where you have to play off of a very bad side hill lie for your second shot). From the blue tees it is made even worse because the tee shot is pretty heavy uphill and the tee box is left for an even more severe of a dog leg. Result is from the blues I think the only reasonable tee shot is a 180ish yd shot (with about a 200 yd max before you lose it over the hill). When the course if playing harder and faster it gets even worse... at least the rough is longer right now.

I don't usually play from our Gold (Championship/Tips) tees, but they actually make that hole MUCH better because although the hole is (of course) longer, you get to be much more elevated for the first shot and the tee box is on the right side so you have a much better angle. A ~225-250 yd draw (can go longer if you have good control on your draw) can actually put you in a good spot which makes the hole much more playable to my eye. Hole is still real bad for somebody that can't draw the ball from either tee though.

[jsmith91]

Haha that's it... I remember thinking I hit a perfect tee shot.... just to find myself near the bottom of that side hill. Maybe I'll figure out how to play it if I end up there.

[RRstein82]

@jsmith91 Sorry man, I know it's almost two months old but just saw your question. We (El Cab) do have a junior program, however given how reasonably priced full membership has been recently, I went with full equity (I was 36 when I joined, 38 now). Junior's do pay 60% of full dues, so that might be something to consider. For now, junior members have limited access on weekends (after 12 pm I think), so if you're a full 9-5'er that might limit your ability to play. I believe Lakeside has a junior rate in terms of initiation; basically I think it's ~$40k, and you have a number of years to pay it. $15k up front I think. Both are wonderful clubs for their own reasons. I definitely prefer El Cab's course, but Lakeside is great as well. If you have a family that would want to use the club, El Cab is the choice.
Happy to take you out for a round if you're interested.

[jsmith91]

@RRstein82 No worries at all. I do not have a family yet, so I am really just focused on the golf/membership as a fun place to be. And the offer is much appreciated, I played it a few years back but do not remember it too well, past needing to have your putting dialed lol. Last I heard something was going on with the grass there?

[RRstein82]

With no family, you might love Lakeside. One of the last true guy's club in Los Angeles.

So we're supposed to be doing a course restoration project. Was scheduled to start in September, but now it's looking like February. This would definitely be something to consider, as once it starts the course will be down for ~9 mos. That being said, we should be getting reciprocity at basically every club you'd want to play (aside from LACC and Riv), so that should soften the blow.

[Schley]

The Hillcrest renovation took almost a year as they started a month or two early. Saw the drone footage and looks great, big improvement. Lakeside just finished their renovation by Todd Eckenrode a couple years ago.

I really think El Cab is underrated. Only played once back in 2001, so curious what work they are doing and who is in charge?

[ButterCutter2]

hillcrest's renovation began July 2018, they didn't have their grand reopening until October/November of 2019.

worth noting on el cab: the club doesn't own the land it sits on. herman properties does, and the 99 year lease began in 1955. 2054 is quite a ways off but its worth noting.

[Schley]

It was supposed to start in Sept 2018 and they moved it up for some reason. It was open for member play in late August last year.

[RRstein82]

Yep. Comes up a lot (especially when the board goes to the membership to approve a massive course restoration plan). Like you said, it's a long way off, but it does need to be worked out. One thing to note is that the land is not, and likely will never be zoned for residential development. There's basically nothing they can put on it except a golf course.

[RRstein82]

I used to think HIillcrest's course was one of the worst private golf courses (if not golf courses in general) in LA. I would rather have played Rancho, if the pace of play wasn't fucking ridiculous.

They didn't just "renovate" the course, they basically built a whole new golf course, and it's amazing. Basically improved every hole, and flat out got rid of the worst ones (looking at you old No. 10...).

In terms of what El Cab is doing, we're ripping up all the grass and replacing it with a heat-resistant, less thirsty strain. The course is gorgeous from December to June, but once the Valley heat starts, it goes downhill real quick. Conditions are terribly by the end of August. Some of the greens will be re-worked to provide additional hole locations, some trees removed and some cart path's rerouted. Course will be the same (which is awesome, because it doesn't need to change). Project is being done by Robert Trent Jones, Jr. (RTJ Sr. did the original design and layout.)