Is scratch possible for everybody?

[ABgolfer2]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406299111' post='9782769']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406292433' post='9781939']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406260040' post='9780589']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406248811' post='9779359']
lol alright I'm done with this conversation. if you say that one's success in any particular endeavor is due to innate traits that you associate with that endeavor, then there's no real retort to that. You know what the most common trait I see between incredibly successful people and people that aren't successful? The first group works their *ss off, the second doesn't. That's probably a good place to start.
[/quote]
Sadly, you are only looking at one of many of the factors that can determine a high level of success. Hard work is certainly part of the equation. So is intelligence, innate ability, luck, personality self belief and self worth, to name but a few. You might want to re-examine those incredibly successful people you mention. You may find that they bring a lot more to the table than just plain old hard work, effort and determination.
[/quote]

Yeah and how are you going to control those things? Oh that's right, you can't. So let's isolate the things we can control and make sure those are maxed out before we cry ourselves to sleep that our golf DNA isn't the same as Tiger Woods.

How do you guys even get out of bed in the morning? I mean somewhere, there is someone out there with better DNA for getting out of bed in the morning than you, who can do so with less effort. Why do you even try?
[/quote]
Because it's always a brand new day out there, that's how. You need to work on your bedside manner.
[/quote]

He hasn't memorized that bit yet.

[ge0vis]

Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.

[Tcombs0914]

[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406301278' post='9783031']
Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.
[/quote]

IMHO it is easier to play the 75 rating courses shoot a couple over than an easier rated course say like your example a 71 and have to shoot 70. Me I can make par all day cause I dont miss fairways or greens but im streaky putter. If I putt well I can shoot 65 or so if not its right at about par so I am a +
As long as your straight off the tee just play the tips your handicap will drop

[hbear]

Provided you can hit a longer ball and hit greens with long irons and hybrids as well.

Higher rated courses are such because they ARE more difficult for the lower cap golfer.
Let's face it, not many guys can play courses with over 7000 yards of length. I don't care how straight you hit it, with longer approaches hitting 18 GIR is very difficult to do.

[hbear]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406292433' post='9781939']

Yeah and how are you going to control those things? Oh that's right, you can't. So let's isolate the things we can control and make sure those are maxed out before we cry ourselves to sleep that our golf DNA isn't the same as Tiger Woods.

How do you guys even get out of bed in the morning? I mean somewhere, there is someone out there with better DNA for getting out of bed in the morning than you, who can do so with less effort. Why do you even try?[/quote]

What does Tiger have to do with it? And what does getting out of bed have to do with it? Those comments are completely irrelevant and off topic.

That being said, a scratch golfer is in the TOP 1% of ALL golfers worldwide. Most of us are simply saying to strive for that top 1% is great! but it takes MUCH more than hard work to get there.

Top 1% of anything is very elite. You don't get to that status simply because of hard work. It is a pre-requisite but not the only factor.....simplifying things to suggest that's all that matters and those who can't get to that top 1% simply aren't working hard enough is flawed logic.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='ABgolfer2' timestamp='1406299390' post='9782795']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406299111' post='9782769']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406292433' post='9781939']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406260040' post='9780589']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406248811' post='9779359']
lol alright I'm done with this conversation. if you say that one's success in any particular endeavor is due to innate traits that you associate with that endeavor, then there's no real retort to that. You know what the most common trait I see between incredibly successful people and people that aren't successful? The first group works their *ss off, the second doesn't. That's probably a good place to start.
[/quote]
Sadly, you are only looking at one of many of the factors that can determine a high level of success. Hard work is certainly part of the equation. So is intelligence, innate ability, luck, personality self belief and self worth, to name but a few. You might want to re-examine those incredibly successful people you mention. You may find that they bring a lot more to the table than just plain old hard work, effort and determination.
[/quote]

Yeah and how are you going to control those things? Oh that's right, you can't. So let's isolate the things we can control and make sure those are maxed out before we cry ourselves to sleep that our golf DNA isn't the same as Tiger Woods.

How do you guys even get out of bed in the morning? I mean somewhere, there is someone out there with better DNA for getting out of bed in the morning than you, who can do so with less effort. Why do you even try?
[/quote]
Because it's always a brand new day out there, that's how. You need to work on your bedside manner.
[/quote]

He hasn't memorized that bit yet.
[/quote]

[size=4] [/size]

Would someone mind telling pinhigh that phrases such as "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve" and "You can be anything you want to be" are NOT meant to be taken LITERALLY and are merely inspirational in nature. [size=4] [/size]

[size=4]TIA[/size]
[size=4] [/size]


[size=4] [/size]

[Tcombs0914]

[quote name='hbear' timestamp='1406302073' post='9783155']
Provided you can hit a longer ball and hit greens with long irons and hybrids as well.

Higher rated courses are such because they ARE more difficult for the lower cap golfer.
Let's face it, not many guys can play courses with over 7000 yards of length. I don't care how straight you hit it, with longer approaches hitting 18 GIR is very difficult to do.
[/quote]

Very true but there are courses rated at or above 74 that are 6800 or so.
And to say they ARE more difficult that in your opinion I find them easier the further back I go. and again thats in my opinion

And 4 straight shots can equal par just matters how well you chip and putt

[gopherguts]

[quote name='hbear' timestamp='1406302516' post='9783201']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406292433' post='9781939']
Yeah and how are you going to control those things? Oh that's right, you can't. So let's isolate the things we can control and make sure those are maxed out before we cry ourselves to sleep that our golf DNA isn't the same as Tiger Woods.

How do you guys even get out of bed in the morning? I mean somewhere, there is someone out there with better DNA for getting out of bed in the morning than you, who can do so with less effort. Why do you even try?[/quote]

What does Tiger have to do with it? And what does getting out of bed have to do with it? Those comments are completely irrelevant and off topic.

That being said, a scratch golfer is in the TOP 1% of ALL golfers worldwide. Most of us are simply saying to strive for that top 1% is great! but it takes MUCH more than hard work to get there.

Top 1% of anything is very elite. You don't get to that status simply because of hard work. It is a pre-requisite but not the only factor.....simplifying things to suggest that's all that matters and those who can't get to that top 1% simply aren't working hard enough is flawed logic.
[/quote]

I believe it's referred to as "deflection" ? Or would that be "distraction" ? "Misdirection ?

All of the above ? [size=4] [/size]

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406299111' post='9782769']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406292433' post='9781939']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406260040' post='9780589']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406248811' post='9779359']
lol alright I'm done with this conversation. if you say that one's success in any particular endeavor is due to innate traits that you associate with that endeavor, then there's no real retort to that. You know what the most common trait I see between incredibly successful people and people that aren't successful? The first group works their *ss off, the second doesn't. That's probably a good place to start.
[/quote]
Sadly, you are only looking at one of many of the factors that can determine a high level of success. Hard work is certainly part of the equation. So is intelligence, innate ability, luck, personality self belief and self worth, to name but a few. You might want to re-examine those incredibly successful people you mention. You may find that they bring a lot more to the table than just plain old hard work, effort and determination.
[/quote]

Yeah and how are you going to control those things? Oh that's right, you can't. So let's isolate the things we can control and make sure those are maxed out before we cry ourselves to sleep that our golf DNA isn't the same as Tiger Woods.

How do you guys even get out of bed in the morning? I mean somewhere, there is someone out there with better DNA for getting out of bed in the morning than you, who can do so with less effort. Why do you even try?
[/quote]
Because it's always a brand new day out there, that's how. You need to work on your bedside manner.
[/quote]

don't forget the bacon.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1406212953' post='9775199']
[quote name='RoverRick' timestamp='1406176893' post='9773287']
I don't know about everyone. But 5 years ago as a 36 capper I decided I wanted to become a scratch player by the time I turned 50. On my 50th birthday, out of the last 20 rounds I was a 0.2 handicap. Now, i will admit that everyone of those rounds was played with the focus on lowering the handicap. The weather was perfect and it was all on the same course without pressure from bets, and distractions from 4 other people. It was mostly by myself or one other person.
[/quote]

Great story!

Yes, you worked HARD. But I read that and believe that you also have some natural ability, to get from basically beginner to scratch in 5 years, at your age. My guess is that you aren't a klutz, and that you're not stupid either (those folks do exist).

( edited for [color=#b22222][b]speeling[/b][/color] )
[/quote]

[size=4] [size=2] [/size][/size]



[size=4][size=2](You DID do that on purpose,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, [/size][/size][size=1] d[/size][size=1]idn't you ? [/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4])[/size]

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1406303071' post='9783275']
[size=4] [size=2] [/size][/size]



[size=4][size=2](You DID do that on purpose,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, [/size][/size][size=1] d[/size][size=1]idn't you ? [/size] [size=4])[/size]
[/quote]

[nbg352]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1406302768' post='9783239']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406299111' post='9782769']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406292433' post='9781939']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1406260040' post='9780589']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406248811' post='9779359']
lol alright I'm done with this conversation. if you say that one's success in any particular endeavor is due to innate traits that you associate with that endeavor, then there's no real retort to that. You know what the most common trait I see between incredibly successful people and people that aren't successful? The first group works their *ss off, the second doesn't. That's probably a good place to start.
[/quote]
Sadly, you are only looking at one of many of the factors that can determine a high level of success. Hard work is certainly part of the equation. So is intelligence, innate ability, luck, personality self belief and self worth, to name but a few. You might want to re-examine those incredibly successful people you mention. You may find that they bring a lot more to the table than just plain old hard work, effort and determination.
[/quote]

Yeah and how are you going to control those things? Oh that's right, you can't. So let's isolate the things we can control and make sure those are maxed out before we cry ourselves to sleep that our golf DNA isn't the same as Tiger Woods.

How do you guys even get out of bed in the morning? I mean somewhere, there is someone out there with better DNA for getting out of bed in the morning than you, who can do so with less effort. Why do you even try?
[/quote]
Because it's always a brand new day out there, that's how. You need to work on your bedside manner.
[/quote]

don't forget the bacon.
[/quote]
Geez, yeah! Someone with no get up DNA at all would be at the breakfast table in a heartbeat, once he smelled the bacon.....

[hbear]

[quote name='Tcombs0914' timestamp='1406302715' post='9783233'][quote name='hbear' timestamp='1406302073' post='9783155']
Provided you can hit a longer ball and hit greens with long irons and hybrids as well.

Higher rated courses are such because they ARE more difficult for the lower cap golfer.
Let's face it, not many guys can play courses with over 7000 yards of length. I don't care how straight you hit it, with longer approaches hitting 18 GIR is very difficult to do.
[/quote]

Very true but there are courses rated at or above 74 that are 6800 or so.
And to say they ARE more difficult that in your opinion I find them easier the further back I go. and again thats in my opinion

And 4 straight shots can equal par just matters how well you chip and putt[/quote]

Fair enough, they ARE more difficult for the theoretical scratch player they use to rate the course.
That being said the individual player is best to determine which is in fact more difficult.

E.g. Further back might not allow a player to cut the corner on a dog leg anymore....forcing them to hit 4i instead of the 9i they would hit from an up tee. Or the extra length might force the ball to land into an upslope on the fairway instead of the downslope,or bring trouble into play that the player used to just bomb over. On the other hand the extra length might negate the need to work the ball off the tee (no longer worries about hitting through the fairway) or put the tee ball farther back so not to bring trouble into play.

So yes it depends on course design and player characteristics. The USGA still has to rate a course based on their definition of a scratch player and how that player hits the ball.

If done correctly it shouldn't matter what tees you play, the rating should adjust your score accordingly. We however know there are exceptions to this.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406248811' post='9779359']
lol alright I'm done with this conversation. if you say that one's success in any particular endeavor is due to innate traits that you associate with that endeavor, then there's no real retort to that. You know what the most common trait I see between incredibly successful people and people that aren't successful? The first group works their *ss off, the second doesn't. That's probably a good place to start.
[/quote]

I agree with the importance of basic "work" ethic, and will add "ability". But, what glaringly lacks in your statement regarding successful people is, reasoning and good judgment; without those work ethic and ability has to rely upon luck, and luck just doesn't cut it.

[Nuggets]

Well I spent 9 hours today doing this........and today has been like the rest of the week weather wise and by that I mean perfect. No wind and a dry heat of between 23-29 degrees C

 

 

 

 

So given that this keeps me busy thats 9 hours of potential practice time gone :D thusly no scratch

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got it all back together then sheared an inlet manifold bolt.........thought I'd be smart and see if it'd survive with only one bolt there so I filled it with water and no.......it leaked big time! Into my oil too so thats an oil change I need to do now as well :censored2:

 

 

 

 

 

[ge0vis]

[quote name='Tcombs0914' timestamp='1406301550' post='9783077']
[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406301278' post='9783031']
Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.
[/quote]

IMHO it is easier to play the 75 rating courses shoot a couple over than an easier rated course say like your example a 71 and have to shoot 70. Me I can make par all day cause I dont miss fairways or greens but im streaky putter. If I putt well I can shoot 65 or so if not its right at about par so I am a +
As long as your straight off the tee just play the tips your handicap will drop
[/quote]

how old are you! Im only asking because i know lots of old guys who dont hit far but straight everytime and they shoot close to par.

[Tcombs0914]

[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406343243' post='9787949']
[quote name='Tcombs0914' timestamp='1406301550' post='9783077']
[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406301278' post='9783031']
Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.
[/quote]

IMHO it is easier to play the 75 rating courses shoot a couple over than an easier rated course say like your example a 71 and have to shoot 70. Me I can make par all day cause I dont miss fairways or greens but im streaky putter. If I putt well I can shoot 65 or so if not its right at about par so I am a +
As long as your straight off the tee just play the tips your handicap will drop
[/quote]

how old are you! Im only asking because i know lots of old guys who dont hit far but straight everytime and they shoot close to par.
[/quote]

Im 30
This question is hard for me since it took me a season to drop from a 15 to a 1 then I have been a scratch and + ever since

The club I am at the Dye course rates at a 76 from the tips most guys hate it except for the really good players, old guys and women since we can avoid the rough and water

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Tcombs0914' timestamp='1406301550' post='9783077']
[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406301278' post='9783031']
Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.
[/quote]

IMHO it is easier to play the 75 rating courses shoot a couple over than an easier rated course say like your example a 71 and have to shoot 70. Me I can make par all day cause I dont miss fairways or greens but im streaky putter. If I putt well I can shoot 65 or so if not its right at about par so I am a +
As long as your straight off the tee just play the tips your handicap will drop
[/quote]

When I read this I had to agree! Though, I am not a "+", or probably as long as you are off the tee, I prefer higher rated courses as well. They not only help me concentrate, but like you, I find the fairway most of time. Add, being a good striker of long irons, and a scratch short game inside of 60yds I "impress myself". I must admit though, my driver is only worth 245-260, so when I play back tee's of longish courses, this ole man works his azzz off. Then I go play 6400yds and fight being mentally lazy. I figure I might have another year or so, before lost driver distance has me staying under 6600yds.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1406400611' post='9790831']
[quote name='Tcombs0914' timestamp='1406301550' post='9783077']
[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406301278' post='9783031']
Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.
[/quote]

IMHO it is easier to play the 75 rating courses shoot a couple over than an easier rated course say like your example a 71 and have to shoot 70. Me I can make par all day cause I dont miss fairways or greens but im streaky putter. If I putt well I can shoot 65 or so if not its right at about par so I am a +
As long as your straight off the tee just play the tips your handicap will drop
[/quote]

When I read this I had to agree! Though, I am not a "+", or probably as long as you are off the tee, I prefer higher rated courses as well. They not only help me concentrate, but like you, I find the fairway most of time. Add, being a good striker of long irons, and a scratch short game inside of 60yds I "impress myself". I must admit though, my driver is only worth 245-260, so when I play back tee's of longish courses, this ole man works his azzz off. Then I go play 6400yds and fight being mentally lazy. I figure I might have another year or so, before lost driver distance has me staying under 6600yds.
[/quote]

Not to mention most of these 7100 yd courses that are rated 75+ are the ones with extremely wide fairways that tend to be pretty penal for missing the fairway, but actually hitting it isn't difficult. I don't think I've ever played a course rated over 73, that doesn't have huge fairways. I'm sure they're out there, but for my experience, those longer courses generally have very generous fairways. I'll take the highest ratings possible all day, it's just going to make my game look better and better. I just played a tournament at a 7100 yd course and there were 0 par 4s where I had anything more than a GW in.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406400827' post='9790861']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1406400611' post='9790831']
[quote name='Tcombs0914' timestamp='1406301550' post='9783077']
[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406301278' post='9783031']
Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.
[/quote]

IMHO it is easier to play the 75 rating courses shoot a couple over than an easier rated course say like your example a 71 and have to shoot 70. Me I can make par all day cause I dont miss fairways or greens but im streaky putter. If I putt well I can shoot 65 or so if not its right at about par so I am a +
As long as your straight off the tee just play the tips your handicap will drop
[/quote]

When I read this I had to agree! Though, I am not a "+", or probably as long as you are off the tee, I prefer higher rated courses as well. They not only help me concentrate, but like you, I find the fairway most of time. Add, being a good striker of long irons, and a scratch short game inside of 60yds I "impress myself". I must admit though, my driver is only worth 245-260, so when I play back tee's of longish courses, this ole man works his azzz off. Then I go play 6400yds and fight being mentally lazy. I figure I might have another year or so, before lost driver distance has me staying under 6600yds.
[/quote]

Not to mention most of these 7100 yd courses that are rated 75+ are the ones with extremely wide fairways that tend to be pretty penal for missing the fairway, but actually hitting it isn't difficult. I don't think I've ever played a course rated over 73, that doesn't have huge fairways. I'm sure they're out there, but for my experience, those longer courses generally have very generous fairways. I'll take the highest ratings possible all day, it's just going to make my game look better and better. I just played a tournament at a 7100 yd course and there were 0 par 4s where I had anything more than a GW in.
[/quote]

Yep, but those wide fairways, least that I encounter, require carry distance to reach, and of course, accuracy. You must hit the big dog pretty nice, for GW leave. I have no idea what that game is like, other than watching a few buddies. I don't have problems with Par 4's under 440. However, there's a course I frequent where the longest Par 4 is 465. I hit driver and 3 or 4 iron, depending on wind. What I like about higher rated courses is they usually play fast, giving me extra yardage on run out.

[esketores]

I'm late to the party and have not perused all the responses. Easy answer... No.

Been playing for multiple decades. Some serious. Most not so serious. (The not so serious is much more fun)

Regardless of what our Constitution says; not all men are created equal.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Tcombs0914' timestamp='1406301550' post='9783077']
[quote name='ge0vis' timestamp='1406301278' post='9783031']
Does everyone realize how to get to scratch and how difficult it is? Lets say you are a great player and you can shoot par at an easy course 20 rounds in a row. The USGA rating of that course and the slope of that course still wouldnt allow you to be a scratch golfer. I play at a course thats an USGA 71.1 and a slope of 118, and if i had a miracle 20 rounds of shooting par at that course my handicapp would still be .8 (not scratch)!!! Many golfers probably think they are a 10 handicap or a 12 handicap but in reality are a close to 15 - 20+ handicap. The mental ability and discipline to be scratch is very difficult. Kinda like sticking to a diet, if you are a person who starts a diet and breaks it within a week or couple weeks (like me) then you probably dont have the mental discipline to be a scratch golfer.
[/quote]
[size=5][b]As long as your straight off the tee just play the tips your handicap will drop[/b][/size]
[/quote]

[size=4]That may just be the silliest thing I've read here.

Distance is THE number one factor for "resistance to scoring" (as I've heard it described in the past).

The USGA states [b][i]"[color=#000000]For all golfers, regardless of ability, yardage is the most significant factor to overcome."[/color][/i][/b]

[color=#000000]They have crunched millions of numbers and put FAR more hours into figuring how best to calculate handicaps, course ratings and slope rating than you have lived,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, yet you know better,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,[/color]

[color=#000000]Just play further back and your handicap will drop[/color][/size][color=#000000][size=3][size=4],,,,,, Sheesh,,,,,,,[/size] [/size][/color]

[glcoach]

As a long time HS and college golf coach, I just looked up the scores for the most recent 5A HS state championship in Utah. Given the hyperbole of some of the posts, I half expected to see a 59. There was one 69 and one 70. There were a ton of scores in the 80's and a lot in the mid to upper 70's. Just like most high school state championships around the country. I see a lot of junior golfers that LOOK like they have game and TALK like they have game and throw up a lot of 77's. Getting better than that requires time and effort and in the current iPhone culture, I don't see it out of too many, the ones that do, you can spot pretty quick.

I think anyone with previous athletic success, with a good grasp of touch and eye hand coordination can be scratch. I think ANYONE that doesn't have a medical condition can shoot in the 80's, all of this is, of course, predicated upon putting in the required work to get there.

I do agree that most scratch or better players were around scratch, or had the skills to get there within 3-4 years of playing. The big thing is chipping and putting, especially putting, if someone putts well naturally, there is a good chance they will have the ability to be pretty good.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1406438241' post='9793625']
As a long time HS and college golf coach, I just looked up the scores for the most recent 5A HS state championship in Utah. Given the hyperbole of some of the posts, I half expected to see a 59. There was one 69 and one 70. There were a ton of scores in the 80's and a lot in the mid to upper 70's. Just like most high school state championships around the country. I see a lot of junior golfers that LOOK like they have game and TALK like they have game and throw up a lot of 77's. Getting better than that requires time and effort and in the current iPhone culture, I don't see it out of too many, the ones that do, you can spot pretty quick.

I think anyone with previous athletic success, with a good grasp of touch and eye hand coordination can be scratch. I think ANYONE that doesn't have a medical condition can shoot in the 80's, all of this is, of course, predicated upon putting in the required work to get there.

I do agree that most scratch or better players were around scratch, or had the skills to get there within 3-4 years of playing. The big thing is chipping and putting, especially putting, if someone putts well naturally, there is a good chance they will have the ability to be pretty good.
[/quote]

If you're a coach, how in the world are you trying to compare tournament scores to someone's handicap? You realize someone doesn't have to average anything close to the rating in tournaments to be a scratch, and I'd say it's highly unusual if they do.

[glcoach]

I totally realize all of that. But a team full of supposed +2's or better shouldn't be barely breaking 300 in team comp.

This is a great reason why no coaches look at handicap, strictly tournament scores.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1406478333' post='9795133']
I totally realize all of that. But a team full of supposed +2's or better shouldn't be barely breaking 300 in team comp.

This is a great reason why no coaches look at handicap, strictly tournament scores.
[/quote]

Have you seen the courses state championships are typically on? At my state, kids that are +3s shoot 75 75 75 and win it all(one of my friends literally did this). The courses they are on are stupid tough. Those are still -1 differentials, 3 rounds in a row, in state championship conditions. It's not like they are held on random munis. The rating for our state's championship is 76.1. When you factor in tournament conditions and then the magnitude of the tournament, shooting 300 as a team is pretty darn good..

Edit: The teams that win average like 310ish/round on a course rated 76.1, so you can figure out the caliber of players from that. That's a total differential of +5 for 4 players, each round. When you factor in tournament golf and the fact that it's a state tournament, it's pretty easy to see that those kids are pretty damn good... If your average for scores you keep is 1 over the rating in tournament conditions, those 4 dudes are definitely on the + side more often than not. Not to mention these championships are almost always held in poor conditions, due to things like cold, rain and wind, especially for more northern states.

[hbear]

And what all the above has to do with EVERYBODY being able to play to scratch is beyond me.....

[poizster]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1406491837' post='9796241']
[quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1406478333' post='9795133']
I totally realize all of that. But a team full of supposed +2's or better shouldn't be barely breaking 300 in team comp.

This is a great reason why no coaches look at handicap, strictly tournament scores.
[/quote]

Have you seen the courses state championships are typically on? At my state, kids that are +3s shoot 75 75 75 and win it all(one of my friends literally did this). The courses they are on are stupid tough. Those are still -1 differentials, 3 rounds in a row, in state championship conditions. It's not like they are held on random munis. The rating for our state's championship is 76.1. When you factor in tournament conditions and then the magnitude of the tournament, shooting 300 as a team is pretty darn good..

Edit: The teams that win average like 310ish/round on a course rated 76.1, so you can figure out the caliber of players from that. That's a total differential of +5 for 4 players, each round. When you factor in tournament golf and the fact that it's a state tournament, it's pretty easy to see that those kids are pretty damn good... If your average for scores you keep is 1 over the rating in tournament conditions, those 4 dudes are definitely on the + side more often than not. Not to mention these championships are almost always held in poor conditions, due to things like cold, rain and wind, especially for more northern states.
[/quote]

I agree with what you're saying about state tournaments but for normal tournaments and matches High School players typically play local munis, sometimes private clubs from the mens white tees which are typically rated about 1-2 strokes under par per 9 holes. I remember typically playing on courses that were like 3,150 yards, rated 34.8 and par was 36. I remember my scoring average my senior year was something like 34.5. In relation to par, for the year I was like -15 but still had like a 0.4 handicap. That's just my expierence growing up in Washington State, I'm sure it's different around the country.

[glcoach]

I have seen the courses. Most state associations play state championships at 6500 yards.

The Utah championship I posted earlier, where you said all the players were was played at a shade under 6600. No HS association in their right mind would play a state championship on a 7300 yard behemoth

Look, I coach in the Southeast. I watched Brian Harman shoot 69 to win a state championship. I watched Russell Henley do the same...They were special. Most really good HS players are not scratch, much less this mythical team of 10 plus 3 handicaps, that would do really well at the NCAA D2 level. I've seen really good NAIA teams with legit 3 handicaps in the lineup

I just think you're exaggerating a bit, or there are a lot of vanity caps at the HS level out west. Congrats on being a great player.

[glcoach]

[quote name='hbear' timestamp='1406494601' post='9796485']And what all the above has to do with EVERYBODY being able to play to scratch is beyond me.....[/quote]

It doesn't. I should have never responded. I forgot that this is the internet, where facts are best left unspoken.