Going From JDM Back to USDM...?

[Bigmean]

Mbbg, you are technically correct, however I think JDM is synonymous with certain quality aspects that profit margin based oem companies here.

Technically, my irons are not JDM, but I consider them to qualify as they are made and feel different than what is commonly available here. I think that drawing a technical line in the sand for "JDM" is fine, but really you could sum it up by saying anyone interested in JDM is just interested in a better forged club.

To the point made on snobbery earlier. That would be fine if in fact my Miuras felt like anything else I have played here, and they don't. Neither do my Vegas.

[MBBG]

There really isn't a line in the sand to be drawn-- a product either is JDM, or isn't.

I am addressing the larger problem of people thinking anything made in Japan or by a Japanese company is JDM, or the even larger problem of people (most of whom have no experience with JDM) castigating the rest of us who have used and enjoy JDM products for a variety of factors.

People can't understand that I buy nice things because[b] I [/b]like the way they look, feel or perform, not because I am looking to impress them. No one around my immediate area knows a damn thing about JDM or that it even exists. Everyone I play with thinks my ONOFF Forged are Callaway knock offs, and I let them go on thinking it. If they did know what I have spent for my clubs that I have or have had, they'd think I was a raving lunatic. I do it for my own personal enjoyment. Nor do I care when someone on here tells me they don't feel any difference or think the JDM club they swung somewhere was anything special. Golf equipment is a deeply personal thing.

But why do people come to the JDM forum to tell us we are all stupid for liking the clubs and have been brainwashed into thinking they're something they're not? Or saying it's for vanity purposes, or whatever? There is a whole host of people here on this board that think JDM is a synonym for "highly priced golf equipment that isn't actually anything special but people are brainwashed into buying". When that simply isn't the truth. Geotech is JDM, is quality, and is dirt cheap. I am trying to stress the fact that those of us who choose it do so because we sense a tangible difference in the JDM products.

[Bigmean]

I guess I was agreeing with that because like I said my Miuras and Vegas have a discernible difference to me, what I was saying is that when you say that the discernible differences people like and then segmenting it even further by needing it to fulfill the criteria of a japanese economic policy for domestic goods.

Basically, if someone says they prefer JDM clubs and get mizuno or vega, technically that is incorrect, but everyone knows what they mean and what they are looking for. You say you don't care, but you do care enough to "qualify" this difference here. It is like calling all soda coke, people do that, if they serve Pepsi, then they will say but it will be fine and understood as the person wants a cola. Everyone knows what they mean.

As far as the bashing goes, that is just what some people do to feel good about themselves. At the end of the day, regardless of intended market, japan makes the most appealing selection of golf clubs period. Call it JDM even if it is mizuno or miura export, say it is not JDM because it is not(I am not arguing the definition with you, just the way it is used and conceived by a lot of people) whatever. You are still talking about golf clubs that flat out offer something of value to those that play them over whatever you can get at your local Edwin watts.

[MBBG]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think people need to know what JDM really means and really is, because it helps to delineate some of the arguments around here. By using the term JDM like one would use Coke to describe all cola, it leads to misunderstandings and controversy that can easily be avoided.

I am also trying to stress that the term JDM doesn't mean a club is magical, super expensive, obscure, etc. It's just a term that describes where it was intended to be sold. It just so happens that equipment intended for sale in Japan has a level of quality and appearance, feel and performance that appeals to a certain subset of golfers.

It just so happens that some of the more boutique JDM manufacturers go a long ways to ensure there is something "special" about the materials or process that go into their clubs--things like forged titanium cup faces on woods, for example, that weren't even available in the USDM market. (Forged still aren't) Or designing irons that had classic looks and killer feel with S20C steel from Endo, or the pure softness of Kyoei forgings. It is clear more Japanese companies place an emphasis on classic looks, simplicity, and incredible feel, whereas US companies are more tech/distance driven and flashy. No slots, no sliding weights, no garish colors.

This is how JDM came to be used the way it is today--people raved about these clubs when coming from US gear, so fans of US gear ridiculed JDM for being elitist and overpriced and nothing special.

[Bigmean]

[quote name='MBBG' timestamp='1416344792' post='10468355']

It just so happens that some of the more boutique JDM manufacturers go a long ways to ensure there is something "special" about the materials or process that go into their clubs--things like forged titanium cup faces on woods, for example, that weren't even available in the USDM market. (Forged still aren't) Or designing irons that had classic looks and killer feel with S20C steel from Endo, or the pure softness of Kyoei forgings. It is clear more Japanese companies place an emphasis on classic looks, simplicity, and incredible feel, whereas US companies are more tech/distance driven and flashy. No slots, no sliding weights, no garish colors.

This is how JDM came to be used the way it is today--people raved about these clubs when coming from US gear, so fans of US gear ridiculed JDM for being elitist and overpriced and nothing special.
[/quote]

This is a great summation as to why JDM AND Japanese made boutique clubs are so appealing to some, and dismissed by others.

[Soloman1]

Yes, a lot of people misunderstand the JDM term and MBBG is right about that.

I would add that there is a segment of JDM golf clubs that are garish and wild colors. And slots, sliding weights and emblems on club originated in Japan and were copied later in the USDM.

Probably the JDM segment that appeals most to people outside Japan is the classic clubs of JDM. I've seen them all and hit them all for over 20 years of living in Japan and being in the golf business. There's a world if difference in tolerances and finish, but that's true of all products and service in Japan. It's night and day.

If you have a problem with any product in Japan, even years after the warranty has expired, the manufacturer will replace or fix the product. And do it with a smile and apology for the trouble they've caused you.

Here's an example of something the average consumer isn't aware of. Not all steel shafts in a production run are the same quality. Steel golf shafts are tested and segregated by quality after the curing process, the shafts in the center of the ovens are more evenly cured. It's like sorting fruit. The best shafts go to club manufacturers for tour players, the next level are bought mostly by Japanese manufacturers at the highest price, and the remaining quality shafts go down in price with the quality. US companies buy the cheapest shafts. Japanese companies buy the most expensive shafts.

In the US, the customer is king. In Japan, the customer is God. God trumps king.

The irons I've got in my bag now are great. So great that I feel like I'm cheating when I use them. But I doubt you can find them in any store in the US...

[phizzy30]

I've gamed or tried almost every JDM and USA forged irons throughout the years. Currently have the vdc-01's in my bag. The difference in JDM and USA is feel. Japanese foundries IMO are far superior to the Chinese ones that the US companies use to forge their irons. Much softer feel on pured shots. Would going back to USA from JDM be a downgrade? I would say yes, because you would be playing clicky irons, but that's JMO.