Iron shaft flex question

[LaymanM]

Question for you guys! I have a driver swing speed of 100-103 mph. 7 iron averages between 83 and 86 mph on trackman sessions. I had been playing stiff shafts in driver, fairway, hybrids and irons.

 

I recently purchased Hogan Apex Plus irons with the Apex 3 steel shaft, which is a regular flex.

 

Mizuno shaft optimizer had me in KBS Tour 115 S, XP 115 s300 or Nippon GH 1150 stiff.

 

Why do I hit the regular flex apex 3 so well? I am carrying 7 iron 160 yards. Nice penetrating flight and very tight dispersion. The apex 3 feels very easy to swing and I am not ballooning the ball.

 

What gives? Is it because I have a smooth tempo? Why does Mizuno shaft optimizer peg me for a stiffer shaft?

 

Thanks

[LaymanM]

Really? No one??

[Buzzkill]

IMO you fall in between stiff and regular based on your numbers.

[LaymanM]

[quote name='Buzzkill' timestamp='1441941794' post='12297542']
IMO you fall in between stiff and regular based on your numbers.
[/quote]

Interesting, that's good to know. Never heard that before

[Stuart_G]

There is no standard for flex nor is there really any hard and fast association between club head speed and flex (or even the full bend profile). There are some generalizations about what type of bend profile might fit a particular individual with certain swing speeds AND certain swing types (e.g. early vs late release, aggressive vs smooth transition) but they are only rough guidelines and this is the source for some of the recommendations that comes out of the optimizer. Going outside of those will not automatically result in more or less accuracy or consistency or dispersion for the large majority of amateurs UNLESS the player is sensitive to the feel of the loading and unloading of the shaft AND the player has certain expectations for what they think it should feel like. In that case, "feel" will trump any other aspect of trying to fit the flex/bend profile to the player.

Also, the bend profile is only part of the shaft fitting process, and for most it's not even the most important aspect. Shaft weight is generally more important when it comes to consistency and accuracy (dispersion) and even club head speed. When you say your dispersion was better with those particular set, without knowing all the specifics of the set against which you are comparing the results to, there is no way to know what is actually causing the results to be better. Different shaft bend profile, different shaft weight, different swing weight, possibly even different lengths.

[LaymanM]

I did have a set of Hogan Apex Plus, same iron length and lie with apex 4 shafts.

Comparing those to same iron with Apex 3. I get more distance and height. Dispersion is very close. Feel is much better as well.

To me it is very interesting. I have typically played stiff shafts. S300 and Ping zz-lite. Never felt they were harsh or anything. Having gone through some fittings, hitting a ton of different shafts and Mizuno swing optimizer I was surprised I liked these shafts so well.

I can say this, feel is very important to me and builds more confidence.

[physics&golf101]

So, if you like the feel and are hitting them well, why do you care about the flex designation?

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

[LaymanM]

[quote name='physics&golf101' timestamp='1442002446' post='12300830']
So, if you like the feel and are hitting them well, why do you care about the flex designation?

If it's not broke, don't fix it.
[/quote]

I don't care what the shaft designation is, ie stiff, regular, extra stiff.

Curious to know what it is about this shaft that I like so much. I am interested in equipment. I think understanding this helps my knowledge of swing and future equipment needs.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

if you are playing a shaft weight/flex BELOW your needs it will feel smooth, it will feel light, you are going to feel powerful with it. it's similar to when dudes hit somebody's irons with a graphite in them when they themselves play steel. they will feel like He-man and perceive them as being VERY playable.

[LaymanM]

[quote name='Kenny Lee Puckett' timestamp='1442011970' post='12301566']
if you are playing a shaft weight/flex BELOW your needs it will feel smooth, it will feel light, you are going to feel powerful with it. it's similar to when dudes hit somebody's irons with a graphite in them when they themselves play steel. they will feel like He-man and perceive them as being VERY playable.
[/quote]

Is VERY playable a bad thing? Can't tell if you think this is good or bad.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

[quote name='LaymanM' timestamp='1442017931' post='12301900']
[quote name='Kenny Lee Puckett' timestamp='1442011970' post='12301566']
if you are playing a shaft weight/flex BELOW your needs it will feel smooth, it will feel light, you are going to feel powerful with it. it's similar to when dudes hit somebody's irons with a graphite in them when they themselves play steel. they will feel like He-man and perceive them as being VERY playable.
[/quote]

Is VERY playable a bad thing? Can't tell if you think this is good or bad.
[/quote]my opinion is irrelevant. it's the side effects of swinging a softer shaft you are asking about.

[kingotheworldma]

[quote name='LaymanM' timestamp='1441888272' post='12292446']
Question for you guys! I have a driver swing speed of 100-103 mph. 7 iron averages between 83 and 86 mph on trackman sessions. I had been playing stiff shafts in driver, fairway, hybrids and irons.

I recently purchased Hogan Apex Plus irons with the Apex 3 steel shaft, which is a regular flex.

Mizuno shaft optimizer had me in KBS Tour 115 S, XP 115 s300 or Nippon GH 1150 stiff.

Why do I hit the regular flex apex 3 so well? I am carrying 7 iron 160 yards. Nice penetrating flight and very tight dispersion. The apex 3 feels very easy to swing and I am not ballooning the ball.

What gives? Is it because I have a smooth tempo? Why does Mizuno shaft optimizer peg me for a stiffer shaft?

Thanks
[/quote]

Isnt the shaft stiffness base on how you load the club? That smooth tempo may be the reason or were you trying to make good swings and not trying to hit that far away hilltop par 5 swing?

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='kingotheworldma' timestamp='1444078455' post='12414222']
Isnt the shaft stiffness base on how you load the club? That smooth tempo may be the reason or were you trying to make good swings and not trying to hit that far away hilltop par 5 swing?
[/quote]

A small distinction but one that can be important. Stiffness itself isn't based on how the club is loaded but yes, how a particular stiffness or bend profile translates to feel will depend a lot on the swing mechanics. For some people (not everyone), a different feel can result in changes to the swing - sometimes for good, sometimes for the worse. And yes, folks with smoother transitions can generally handle softer shafts better than those with more aggressive transitions.

[Ol_Pardner]

Interesting discussion. Came across it while visiting from the Classic Golf site. I have been playing one form or another of the Apex shaft for 35+ yrs. The lightweight steel shaft, the one that most are familiar with is actually stiffer than most people realize. The basic characteristics of the Apex shaft are a softer tip added to a shaft that is stiffer towards the butt or grip end of the club, stiffer than TT-DGs and others. The softer tip increases workability. According to another Classic golfer, who knew some Hogan sales reps, these guys said that the Apex 3, thought of as medium by most, was actually closer to the DG R500 than the R300, because of the stiffer end. Same with the Apex 4&5: Apex 4, closer to the S400, and the Apex 5, between X400 and X500. (Hogan played the Apex 5 until he gave up the game in his late 70s or early 80s.) Bernhard Langer plays the same set of Apex shafts in his irons that he had as a Hogan staff member years ago. In fact he plays his Hogan long irons (groove rule does not apply to clubs with less than 26* of loft), and Adams installs his mid- thr. short iron heads on his Apex shafts.