Inside Out Shank

[dlynch]

13 months ago I was playing at my local club hitting a 9 iron into a par four. Out of the blue: pure 100% shank. Didn't think much about it then the next time I played two more shanks, over the next few months I then progressed to shanking up to 80% of all irons shots and the ones I dont shank are weak heal hits that have zero ball compression and go nowhere.

 

I am 31 years old and playing since I was 10. I was a very low handicapper and competetive player in my teens and played on the college team for four years. I didn't play much after college (travel, work etc) but started playing a lot again about 3 years ago and got back down to 3 and was enjoying golf more than ever. Then this. I honestly are so so close to quiting, its so demoralising not being able to get the ball on the green, in simple terms I cannot play the game right now. If you cant hit an iron you cant play golf.

 

I have had a few lessons and have hit thousands of balls trying to fix the issue.

 

I know I have the inside out shanks. My lower body is racing ahead of my upper on the downswing causing my hands to get closer to the ball. As my lower body is racing ahead I leave my weight on my right side, do a reverse C and then flip my hands out, shank and finish with a very low follow through.

As much as I try to fix this I just seem not to be able.

 

Has anybody gone through this? Sometimes I find a slot where I hit a good iron shot and it feels so nice but the shank comes back. The two teachers I have worked with say my back swing in fine its the move down but I can help but feel there is something on my backswing that is causing my downswing as when I start from the top of a completed backswing I hit it pretty good.

 

Any help would be so appreciated.

 

David

[aminian.1]

I am in EXACTLY the same situation, and I have tried EVERYTHING to fix it. My inside-out shank is at its worst when I get a little tired. I haven't found a truly great fix, but here's a quick one that's gotten me back in the game:

 

1. Set up with the ball off the toe of the club, as though you were going to strike an imaginary ball that's about 2-3 inches closer to you than the real one; 2. Make your normal swing at that imaginary ball (CONCENTRATE: do not focus on the real ball, only on the imaginary one).

 

I know it sounds kind of silly, and it might ingrain bad mechanics, but if you hit your shank as reliably as I do it'll at least get you hitting the ball solidly again. It takes some practice to get used to swinging at something that isn't there, but give it time. I've been using this technique in combination with a stack and tilt swing and the results have actually been quite amazing. Best of luck.

[dlynch]

Aminian, many thanks for that. I kinda thought before about trying an imaginary ball type method so I defo will this weekend.

 

Also the S&T thing interests me too as by definition it takes out the need for the weight transfer back so in then there is no problem having to transfer it back to the left.

 

did you try just S&T on its own without the imagainary ball? If so, how did you get in ?

 

How long have you had the shanks? How bad does it get?

[Pole_Position]

OK, I'm not an instructor but it sounds like I have similar swing dynamics as you and have struggled through and researched this problem in the past.

 

First off, the way I look at it a shank is caused because you are lagging the shank (instead of the sweetspot) into the ball...doesn't matter if you swing inside-out, outside-in, are standing too close to the ball, have the clubface open or closed at impact, etc....your body THINKS the shank of the club is the sweetspot. View the excellent video in this thread http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthr...highlight=shank for an explanation.

 

That being said, it doesn't explain why YOU are "lagging the shank" into the ball. I believe you may indirectly be right when you say there is a problem with your backswing, but let's start with your transition or the position you're in when you start your downswing.

 

There are countless ways to get the club to the top of your swing so that you are in a proper (on-plane) position; the backswing is (relatively) slow enough that it is fairly easy to make any corrections for faulty backswing mechanics before starting your downswing. If you are out of position (off-plane) to start your downswing, however, you have very little time to make the necessary corrections to get into a proper (on-plane) position at impact.

 

I'm GUESSING that if you were to look at the top of your backswing from down-the-line you will find that your shaft is crossing the line (pointing right of target for a righty). If this is not true, then ignore what I'm about to say and move on. If it is true, then this will often lead to being too steep (off-plane) to start your downswing (if you were to stop your swing when your hands were shoulder-high in the downswing and drew a line from the shaft it would point well inside of the ball when viewed from behind). Your body "knows" the shaft is too steep at this point and compensates by flattening the shaft out (dropping the clubhead well behind your body or below plane when viewed from behind). It's this action, when severe enough, that lines up the hosel and sweetspot in relation to the ball.

 

Since the club is now below plane (coming from the inside) your body must "create" room for it by stopping the core rotation and thrusting the hips towards the target. Since the core rotation has stopped, the body must now "sling" the arms out in front. Finally, since the clubhead is coming from well inside the body must "flip" the clubhead closed. Lots of things to sequence correctly in the milliseconds it took to perform the downswing, none of which is consciously controllable (unless you're maybe Tiger Woods).

 

So IF you are severely crossing the line at the top and/or getting severely steep in transition how do you fix it?

 

Start with the setup: make sure you have enough initial spine tilt away from the target; make sure your weight is distributed correctly (pay particular attention to the weight being too much in the heels, a common compensation that people make when shanking); make sure you are not standing too FAR from the ball (another common compensation, to start moving further and further from the ball which leads to a flatter and flatter backswing, see below).

 

Look at your backswing: are you bringing it back too far inside? This will often lead to crossing the line at the top and a steep transition (if you don't come over-the-top to correct). Do you have a flying right elbow and/or is the right elbow flexed significantly more than 90* at the top? Is your left wrist significantly cupped at the top? Finally, are you rotating your forearms enough?

 

If I hit the nail on the head with any of this stuff then let me know and I can give you some corrective measures that have helped me out.

 

:aggressive:

 

Mike

[XYB34A]

you are leaning forward slightly on the down swing, which moves the club maybe a half inch or so away from u. so the hosel is what hits the ball. if u hit a draw every time and have trouble hitting a fade or a cut shot. then this is it. i had film taken of me when i started this last august. i was rolling forward on the balls of my feet and my heels had no weight.

[mikpga]

Are we assuming a shank off the hosel or the toe?

[g8a_golf]

do what aminian.1 said. i have a swing in which i come from the inside as well and if i start to get tired towards the end of the round, i start hitting the ball off the heel and to offset that, i play the ball off of the toe in my stance and take a normal swing. hosel rockets are hard to stomach, but i'd rather hit it off the hosel than the toe because this proves that you are making the right move towards the ball coming from the inside, you just have to learn how to control your downswing to stop the hosel-rockets.

 

play it off the toe like zach johnsosn and see what happens.

[aminian.1]

I did try S&T without setting up off the toe, but the shanks stayed with. Got into S&T after hearing about it on this forum, and found that the core idea of keeping weight on my left foot was pretty easy to implement and highly effective.

 

I developed the shanks early this season, but they've come and gone in past seasons as well. It's kind of a day-to-day thing. Sometimes they're there, and sometimes they're not. When they are there, they're incredibly consistent, so I usually just head to the range before a round to see what's going on that particular day. If I find that I am in fact shanking, I just accept it and set up off the toe during my round.

[smittysbar]

Man oh man, I have struggled over the past few years with these, almost quit. This year I did a few thing that helped.

 

1. My right arm was breaking down (I am a lefty)

2. I get real wristy especially on the takeaway, I come way inside when I do this. which leads to the club face coming wide open in the back swing then the club looses its feel and I lead with the hosel.

3. keep your head down, down, down.

4. stay aggressive with your shot, follow through

 

Now I start my swing making sure my arm does not break down. quite my hands and wrists. and feel my my club rolling through the impact zone.

 

One of the things I bet for sure that you are doing is getting real wristy on the take away, opening the face open then coming down through with it open. Look at your divot next time, it will be a tin wide open divot. try this, if it sounds familiar. Works for me.

[dlynch]

Sincere thanks for the advice guys.

 

yes they are defo hosel shanks and yes when I shank the divot is a very very thin divot (almost like a knife) and it is pointing way way right.

 

Another question, in some ways could setting up off the toe not cause you to come more from the inside as you reach for the ball? Will try on Saturday and see how I get on

 

 

Am going to Ireland to play for a month in 3 weeks so somehow have to get my game in order

[Pole_Position]

Sincere thanks for the advice guys.

 

yes they are defo hosel shanks and yes when I shank the divot is a very very thin divot (almost like a knife) and it is pointing way way right.

 

Another question, in some ways could setting up off the toe not cause you to come more from the inside as you reach for the ball? Will try on Saturday and see how I get on

 

 

Am going to Ireland to play for a month in 3 weeks so somehow have to get my game in order

 

I believe the thin divot is usually caused by the clubhead twisting around the ball in a closing direction at the hosel contact point, causing the leading edge to be narrow when it contacts the ground and get narrower as the divot progresses (not because the face is wide open...usually :aggressive: ). Divot usually looks like a thin wedge tapering to the right.

 

 

[dlynch]

Cool picture in a scary kinda way.

 

Yes I think my club face is closing at impact when I shank as when I dont shank all my misses are left.

 

what do do? Keep trying I guess

[mikpga]

I would experiment with swinging what feels like over the top...

 

Hit intentional cut shots as well...

[g8a_golf]

is that a picture of darren clarke's hosel rocket?

[hayam]

Mike is correct.

 

few things .

 

The lie angle may be too upright for you or your hand position is too high for you and your hand arrive lower than that lie angle

 

Your swinging too much inside out . thus underplane. try to swing less inside out divot should be point 5-10 deg to the right at the most. maybe you shifted too much, maybe your hanging back too much.

 

 

You should setup ball slightly towards the toe when grounded and when its raised it center of the club. thats impact position.

[dlynch]

I think my lower body races ahead in downswing and I do a slight reverse C,leave my weight on right side, and flip my hands and sh**K.

 

I have amd am trying to hit cuts shots so as to train myself to not come from inside but I just feel that whatever I am downg on the backswing, I am putting myself in a position where I cant even intentionally hit slightly accross the line to produce cuts shots. Thats why I think it it something am doing on my back swing or in my set up/posture.

 

Paradox is that when I used to be a decent player I always played a slight cut shot and I might have caused all this by trying to become a drawer about 24 months ago.

[ricknoberts]

I battled this same problem from the age of about 17 until I was 23. No matter what I tried, I would always get a vicious case of the shanks every summer, which then led to me quitting for the remainder of the year.

 

It never really clicked until I hit some balls on a Vector that felt pure but were going WAYYYY left. I had a shut face, was coming way inside, and was rolling my hands over through impact.

 

I finally got over it by feeling like I'm swinging over the top, which in reality was down the target line.

 

Try and hit some balls while trying to go over the top and hold your finish like a cut shot.

 

Also, make sure that you are properly rotating the clubface on the takeaway, and not just pushing it straight back. Don't lay it off, but make sure that it follows the turning of your arms.

[tji]

A problem I know only too well.. A recurring case of the hosel rockets caused me to give up golf for almost five years.

 

At its worst, I could do it with any iron. But, as I started improving it mostly happened with mid to long irons ( 6i being the worst). Now, I can go months without a shank, although occasionally one creeps in. But, now when it happens I am not filled with dread about hitting my next iron (a sure way to make it worse), I feel confident I can control it.

 

The two things I work on to control this are:

 

- Keep my lead shoulder in. When I would get hosel contact, it would often feel like I was rotating open.

 

- Don't flip at it. Especially with short irons, when I got wristy it caused problems. (looking at the video link posted above, this could even be what he was talking about.. leading with the hosel - then flipping to try and close the face)

 

Due to the difficult nature of diagnosing this flaw, I'm not 100% confident that these were the root causes. But, they did help me to control it.

[spearfish]

been there done that...

I know your pain.

 

A very simple drill if I get the shanks:

 

line up to hit your ball, then close your stance and hit a shot without any lower body movement.. Keep doing this till you hit it good, then gradually open up your stance to normal position.

[aminian.1]

Happy to report that I worked out my shank over the past few days, after reading the material on "early extension." As it turns out, I'd been rotating my hips too early- ahead of my hands on the downswing. Therefore, as my hands would come through, my right hip/thigh was occupying the area where my hands were supposed to be, thereby forcing my hands and the club outwardly, toward the ball. By simply delaying my hip rotation I've been able to make the necessary correction.

 

Cheers

[spearfish]

From my experience i'd be more inclined to say it's a hip "sway" across the line of your ball.

When the hips slide, the hands will want to come to their correct place at impact, but since your hips are past the ball, the club isn't getting a chance to square up at the right place, instead it's about 1-3 inches ahead of where it should be.. you'll either hit a square cut, shank or a huge slice..

[tji]

Viewing Darren Clarke's famous shank on YouTube led to some more videos that are either sickening or hilarious.. maybe both. There are also a few good instructional videos trying to help cure the laterals.

 

I love this guy's reaction:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X3Z5GpmX27U

 

This one is just funny:

 

 

 

 

All this reading and viewing shank stuff (looking for info for a friend who has a bad case) is getting me worried. Last year, I was consoling a guy I got placed with telling him of my past troubles with the hosel.. Sure enough, next shot, on a par 5 with water on the right - 120 yards to the green and CLANK...plunk. But, my next shot was pure.