Not another One........Ah ha Moments

[Exactice808]

OK gang..... need some help here.....been here a while post quite a bit..... Golf has dropped significantly since my second one was born (3month old and a 2 1/2 yr old).... golf as I know it is on pause. That being said it does not stop me from reading and learning and exploring things nor practicing @ home in front of the TV while watching the kids.

 

Any ways through my recent journey of fixing my stuck fly right elbow in my down swing. I had an Ah ha moment last night as my family is away so I had a chance to go to the range.

 

 

Here is the questions - Is "consciously" hitting down on the ball a potential root of all evil.

 

Ok revelation to this, if the swing works on an ellipse fulcrum whatever. We initiate the back swing hit the top and then start the down swing, there is 2 options,

 

As Monte likes to share, "natural" lag where things fall, and then fall into place naturally, lag is then created, the swing bottoms out and a strike is pure.

 

Option 2 is the other thoughts of being conscious of lag while its not spoken to artificially create lag, when ever your are conscious of it to me it cause more problems. You create lag, try to release it at the ball and you either get a good strike or slightly fat or thin etc.

 

 

With that above, when I trike to strike down on the ball, its almost like having to aim at that specific point, the leading edge has to be perfect or it could be thin or fat etc etc.

 

 

NOW what happened last night was instead of trying to hit down on the ball, I literally tried to scoop/hit up on the ball Not a flip move, a move to shift my ellipse or strike up on the ball, it felt like everything was lagging so far behind, that the only way to hit the ball without digging 2ft deep was to rotate my shoulders towards the sky opening everything up at impact. This was the opposite feeling, where hitting down it feels l am driving my shoulders down towards the ball at impact.

 

The benefits that I seem to find and this was especially true for the driver, was that I never had fear of exposing the leading edge to digging. I cant verify but it did feel like I swallowed the club much more than trying to hit down on it traditionally. Secondly, when I try to hit down on the ball, it seems like my swing feels more like an oval rather than a circle, When I hit down its not round its so sharp hit down towards the impact point, Where the feeling I have now, is that the swing/club actually has a "flatter" arc of travel at impact, rather than a sharp steep point.

 

 

Any ways.... it took half a basket to get used to.... but once I got the rhythm of it, it felt really really really good!

 

 

Is this just a growing pain? another dumb ah ha moment, am I on to something?

[Exactice808]

Quick additional point

 

 

 

the Wide red circle is what I feel is the correct swing,

 

 

The Narrow/oval shape is what it feels like when I hit down on the ball.

 

 

You can artificially hit down on the ball as it changes the natural shape of circle, of course this goes hand in hand trying to "scoop" the ball as well,

 

 

But I feel like when I get "Steep" to try to hit down on the ball, it develops all kinds of bad habits?? Over the top, digging, chunking, forward weight shift, spine angles are off etc?

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Not an instructor, so I'm sure to be corrected by one, but this topic came up last night at a lesson.

 

What my instructor just told me is to think of the circle that is your swing as a movable thing. You can move it up in your stance or back in your stance depending upon your weight distribution when the club bottoms out on a natural swing. He said "Hitting down on the ball is a really bad thing." The narrow ellipse you drew is likely the worst thing you can attempt to do, it would take some impeccable timing and sequencing.

 

Your swing should naturally hit down on the ball at the bottom of the natural swing arc just past the ball.

 

I'm really not sure the wide swing arc is what you actually do, or what you feel you are doing? My guess is it's actually closer to something in between?

 

So, hitting down at the ball is a bad thing, swinging in a natural arc where the bottom of the swing arc is just past the ball is better. It seemed to work for me when I complained about my thin shots yesterday, and he corrected it by correcting my swing philosophy.

[Exactice808]

Not an instructor, so I'm sure to be corrected by one, but this topic came up last night at a lesson.

 

What my instructor just told me is to think of the circle that is your swing as a movable thing. You can move it up in your stance or back in your stance depending upon your weight distribution when the club bottoms out on a natural swing. He said "Hitting down on the ball is a really bad thing." The narrow ellipse you drew is likely the worst thing you can attempt to do, it would take some impeccable timing and sequencing.

 

Your swing should naturally hit down on the ball at the bottom of the natural swing arc just past the ball.

 

I'm really not sure the wide swing arc is what you actually do, or what you feel you are doing? My guess is it's actually closer to something in between?

 

So, hitting down at the ball is a bad thing, swinging in a natural arc where the bottom of the swing arc is just past the ball is better. It seemed to work for me when I complained about my thin shots yesterday, and he corrected it by correcting my swing philosophy.

 

 

Pretty much my thoughts! Yes the Circle can shift up and down, forward and back but for whatever reason I was not swinging in a circle, I was swinging in Oval, The reason why I think I was was because I was trying to hit down, I was trying to deloft the club, I was trying to get "Lag" or artificial lag.

 

More so when hitting down I was trying to hit that pin point spot behind the ball, rather, when the club reaches the bottom of the arc....it does flatten out, its not a "sharp" point at impact....it "Sweeps" rather than "Strikes"???

 

Just a swing thought "aha" moment I wanted to share.

[golfie1]

Your hands should be moving upwards prior to impact. Perhaps this is what you feel.

[Exactice808]

Your hands should be moving upwards prior to impact. Perhaps this is what you feel.

 

That is my misunderstanding, My hands are going down at the ball @ impact.... you are correct, it should be going Upwards right? That is the "correct" feeling?

[royourboat]

Your hands should be moving upwards prior to impact. Perhaps this is what you feel.

 

Although I strongly agree with aforementioned point... I think what you're describing is simply the fault of holding lag, how narrow it makes you and the contrary, how sequencing properly creates lag and maintains maximum width.

[Jim Waldron]

My philosophy on this issue, based on over 25 years of teaching experience, is not to ever focus on "swing thoughts" about the Release and Impact. Only exception would be a student who suffered from poor Release due to a poor mental picture, ie mainly higher handicaps. And I am talking about using that kind of mental intent while swinging at normal tempo and hitting golf balls.

 

If the swing segments previous to Release are solid, as are grip, grip pressure, Setup, aim, and Balance - then what that guy needs to learn how to do is to Pivot Thrust properly and let the energy forces created from the P thrust create the proper arm/hand and club motion.

 

Folks sometimes end up with a bad case of full swing yips from focusing too much on "doing something" during Release.

 

"Hitting down" as a conscious mental intent is just an exagerration drill for folks who suffer from scoop impulse.

 

LOTS and LOTs of stuff happening in a good golf swing are the effects of prior causes, and often times "hidden" root causes.

 

One of the Big Keys to a good Release and Impact in terms of the whole "Lag" controversy, is just to understand the concept of "doing nothing" to hold onto the lag and also "doing nothing" to make the lag release.

[Exactice808]

My philosophy on this issue, based on over 25 years of teaching experience, is not to ever focus on "swing thoughts" about the Release and Impact. Only exception would be a student who suffered from poor Release due to a poor mental picture, ie mainly higher handicaps. And I am talking about using that kind of mental intent while swinging at normal tempo and hitting golf balls.

 

If the swing segments previous to Release are solid, as are grip, grip pressure, Setup, aim, and Balance - then what that guy needs to learn how to do is to Pivot Thrust properly and let the energy forces created from the P thrust create the proper arm/hand and club motion.

 

Folks sometimes end up with a bad case of full swing yips from focusing too much on "doing something" during Release.

 

"Hitting down" as a conscious mental intent is just an exagerration drill for folks who suffer from scoop impulse.

 

LOTS and LOTs of stuff happening in a good golf swing are the effects of prior causes, and often times "hidden" root causes.

 

One of the Big Keys to a good Release and Impact in terms of the whole "Lag" controversy, is just to understand the concept of "doing nothing" to hold onto the lag and also "doing nothing" to make the lag release.

 

Actually you bring on an additional point!....... While I understand your point about swing thoughts.....I will say this, Prior to yesterdays range session, I had many swing thoughts. once piece take away, proper wrist set, elbow tucked in on the down swing, rotating hips, flat left wrist @ impact etc etc...... I cant say I was conscious of ever thought up to this point but I know they popped in there.

 

 

Yesterday on the range, the only feeling I was thinking was, scooping or that sensation or like the previous poster was saying the feeling of the hands going up instead of down @ impact.

 

 

Oddly, while doing so, NO other swing thoughts came into play, I didnt care about my back swing, elbow, wrist @ impact, lag etc..... everything just seem to fall into place....... It was a really weird Eye opener.

 

I dont think I am explaining it properly. but I am going to say personally again.... man all the things I used to think were all wrong....

 

Here are 2 really weird swing up to this point, I will try to get a video of the new swing tomorrow

 

2014 - 30hdcp

 

2014 - 18 hdcap

 

2016 - 13 hdcp

 

 

when I review all these things, the things I fight are early extension, fly right elbow.... Again in my mind, all due to me trying to get on top of the ball getting steep and or hitting down. Ill say this during, 2014-2016 I was not a bad iron striker at all..... but I know I was not quality good either.

 

 

Again a video tonight to see if I am on to something.

[WinKiePie]

Sounds like the goddess of golf smiled upon you last night. But be careful.. she's been known to give us mortals just a little taste of heaven before taking it away just as swiftly as well.. :blush2: