Downswing trigger

[ChrisM84]

What is your swing thought to unleash the fury?

When I'm playing I just like to stand over the ball with a mental image of my target and go.

But at the range, I like to have a swing thought that helps me get in a good impact position.

From the top of my back swing, I think "compress" and it gets me solid contact, most of the time. :good:

I also like to think of those close ups of impact on the swingvisions of the ball getting squeezed on the club face.

What thought helps you make solid contact?

[JeffMann]

I am a strong believer in the correct sequencing of body movements - hips before shoulders, so that the hips lead the shoulder turn throughout the downswing. Therefore, my downswing trigger thought is to turn the mid-torso (navel area) towards the target as fast as possible at the start of the downswing.

 

If one only thinks of compressing the ball, this doesn't promote correct sequencing. In this next photo-diagram of a golfer performing an "upper body dive" movement due to incorrect hip-shoulder sequencing (shoulders moving first while the lower body remains static), it is readily possible that he may effectively compress the ball well - but it is likely to result in a pulled shot.

 

 

Jeff.

[TEConnor]

When I'm playing I just like to stand over the ball with a mental image of my target and go.

 

But at the range, I like to have a swing thought that helps me get in a good impact position.

 

From the top of my back swing, I think "compress" and it gets me solid contact, most of the time. :good:

 

I also like to think of those close ups of impact on the swingvisions of the ball getting squeezed on the club face.

 

What thought helps you make solid contact?

 

As long as you're not like my buddy who frequently says to himself during his backswing: "pinch the ball...Mike!" It's laugh out loud funny, cause he says it through clenched teeth, with "Mike" punctuating the top of his backswing. He rarely, if ever, hits one well using his "conversation swing" as we like to call it.

 

Tim

[Medici999]

if i turn my navel to quickly or most of the time it just makes me come over the top, any ideas why jeffman?

[juststeve]

To swing as Jeff suggests requires a good deal of flexibility that many of us lack. You must be able to create and maintain a lot of separation between the hips and shoulders to lead the swing with rapid hip rotation. If you aren't sufficiently flexible rotation of the hips leads to rotation of the shoulders and an over the top move. You already know that. Therefore, work on flexibility if you want to do it Jeff's way.

 

I am not and have never been a particularly flexible guy. I am thick and muscular through the torso. Therefore from the top my downswing key is to allow my arms to fall as my weight shifts from the inside of the right foot to the left foot. From there I can rotate and swing through the ball. This prevents the over the top move and allows me to strike the ball from inside the line.

 

Steve

[Medici999]

i have a tpi fitness handicap of 4, so its quite low. i am able to seperate my shoulders from my hips quite well but i still come over the top.

[juststeve]

If its not a fitness issue I would still recommend that you get your weight to the left side before you rotate your hips aggressively. Doing that will get the club slotted. I feel this move mostly in my feet, some describe it as a leftward bump of the hips. Hogan himself said he began his downswing by rotating his hips as fast as he could, but he added that there was enough lateral motion to get his weight to the left. No matter what method is being used I've never seen a person strike the ball well standing on his back foot.

 

Steve

[EnglishBob]

My mantra as I practice on the range is 'Swing Easy", same thought as I get over the ball on the course, however, once on the course over the ball the commencement of my down swing always changes the mantra to "DIE WHITE SPHEROID!" usually followed by a horrible miss-hit. :good:

[press007]

When ever I start swinging poorly, I have learned that I start my upper body a tic before my lower and this sets up all kinds of problems. So key to me is to get connected with the feeling of my lower body starting first just a millisecond before the backswing ends. I develop this feeling by totally relaxing and making slow half swings, as the club gets to it end of the swing I need to feel my body starting the motion a millisecond before the backswing ends, that is the feeling I want to reproduce in the swing.

 

I find that if I start with the lower body first, "just before the backswing ends" it guarantees full coil and cocking of my wrists and hitting from the inside, so this is key to me. If things get really bad I need to get in touch with what part of the lower body starts this motion, sometimes its the left hip or sometimes its the left knee...Jim

[JeffMann]

juststeve wrote -: "You must be able to create and maintain a lot of separation between the hips and shoulders to lead the swing with rapid hip rotation."

 

I disagree. I now use Chuck Quinton's rotary swing style, and he encourages a golfer to minimise seperation between the hips and shoulders during the backswing. In fact, one must allow the hips to rotate back about 30-45 degrees during the backswing, and there should be a feeling of the shoulders and hips moving together in the backswing in a rotary manner, with no attempt to aggressively restrict the hip turn.

 

Medici 999

 

If turning the navel towards the target moves your shoulders around OTT, then you are not performing the maneuver correctly. When one turns the navel towards the target at the start of the downswing, the first sensation should be a feeling of replanting weight on the left foot as the hips square. In other words, there has to be a small left-lateral shift of the pelvis before the lower body rotates leftwards (left hip clearing action) - and during this hips shift period, one should have a distinct feeling of a right torso side-bending feeling (a feeling that the right shoulder is dropping down towards the RSP line towards the ball). If one doesn't get that "feeling" then you are probably not performing the maneuver correctly. If one simply rotates the lower torso - without that right torso side-bending action - then the hips will spin around and that will cause the shoulders to spin around in an OTT manner.

 

The following swing video will demonstrate why a hip shift must precede the hip rotation (left hip clearing action).

 

 

Two key points in that video. 1) Note how the right buttocks stays back temporarily at the start of the downswing, as the hips slide left-laterally. 2) One must keep the head back, which prevents the body lurching around OTT. Keeping the head back is a critical element that allows the right torso side-bending maneuver to be correctly executed.

 

Jeff.

[press007]

juststeve wrote -: "You must be able to create and maintain a lot of separation between the hips and shoulders to lead the swing with rapid hip rotation."

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I disagree. I now use Chuck Quinton's rotary swing style, and he encourages a golfer to minimise seperation between the hips and shoulders during the backswing. In fact, one must allow the hips to rotate back about 30-45 degrees during the backswing, and there should be a feeling of the shoulders and hips moving together in the backswing in a rotary manner, with no attempt to aggressively restrict the hip turn.

 

Medici 999

 

 

Jeff.

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I`m having some problem with this discription of Quintons theory [ I dont know his teachings]......You say that hips turn 30 to 45 degrees and you say that the feeling of the hips and shoulders moving together is important....

 

Heres my problem with that discription........First if you move your hips to 30 to 45 degrees [which I happen to agree with] and have the feeling that the shoulders and hips are moving together in the back swing, that isn`t what happens because we all know the shoulders turn approx. 90 degrees, that happens to be at least twice as much as the hips. If your discription is correct then the shoulders only turn 30 to 45 degrees like the hips. That just doesn`t work. Theres something wrong?.........Jim

[JeffMann]

Jim

 

I didn't mean to imply that the hips turned around at the same speed and to the same angular degree as the shoulders. The hips only turn about 30-45 degrees while the shoulders turn about 90 degrees in a rotary-style swing. However, a rotary swing style allows for a better "connection" between the upper and lower torso, so that they can rotate in a more unitary manner in the downswing.

 

Look at the following two swing videos. Tiger Woods restricts his hip turn much more than Phil Mickelson. They are both great golfers, but Phil Mickelson has a more rotary style swing.

 

Tiger Woods

 

 

Some interesting observations. Note that Tiger squares his hips and replants weight on his left foot before his right buttocks leaves the tush line (during the subsequent hip rotary move - left hip clearing action).

 

Note that Phil starts the downswing with a shoulder rotation move and relatively passive hips in that first swing example and that causes him to come slightly OTT - the out-to-in swingpath producing a slice action. However, in the third swing sequence (slo-mo when he is wearing a blue shirt) he starts the downswing with the hips, and that drops his right shoulder more downwards thus causing him to come more from the inside, which encourages a more in-to-out swing action and allows for a draw.

 

Jeff.

[Medici999]

thanks jeffman

[press007]

Jeff, I have some knowledge of the rotary swing because I use to swing similar to what John Redmond [who was Azingers teacher] teaches and he teaches rotary, centrifical force swing that is very hip centered. Actually when I was swinging in this manner I felt far less stress and was far better connected because the underlying idea behind the swing is rotation and not separation.

 

The rotational swing is a very classic swing used by just about everyone in past history. In fact I have been toying with the idea of going back because I have some issues that are effecting the way I can swing and my days with a more tense, resisting swing are numbered. I remember fondly the " no tension days" with that swing.

I do agree with you discription of Tigers and Phils differences. In my sitituation I `m moving toward Phils swing.

 

Quinton, I am not familar with, does he have a internet site or a book, I may be intrested in seeing what he has to say. Thanks Jim

[ChrisM84]

JeffMann,

 

I see where you are coming from. But when a golfer has that correct sequencing down, I think it's time for the mechanical thoughts to leave the mind during the swing. Thinking of compressing the ball works for me.

[JeffMann]

Press007

 

Chuck Quinton's website

 

Jeff.

[press007]

Press007

 

Chuck Quinton's website

 

Jeff.

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Thanks Jeff, I`ll do a little fishing

[leekgolf]

When I'm playing I just like to stand over the ball with a mental image of my target and go.

 

But at the range, I like to have a swing thought that helps me get in a good impact position.

 

From the top of my back swing, I think "compress" and it gets me solid contact, most of the time. :good:

 

I also like to think of those close ups of impact on the swingvisions of the ball getting squeezed on the club face.

 

What thought helps you make solid contact?

 

 

Huh? I don't have time to think about the transition. I don't know how I could think about this and actually perform without loosing the dynamic properties needed to make a good swing.

 

My body just fires and the arms, then hands, then club follow.

[leekgolf]

if i turn my navel to quickly or most of the time it just makes me come over the top, any ideas why jeffman?

 

In any athletic activity, like throwing a football, a baseball, hitting a baseball, tennis shot etc. the feet lead, the rest follows in sequence. Shift to left foot, then hips turn, then shoulders, arms, hands, club....

[eugd]

what about palyers like a Trever Immelman that stays stacked over the lower body more and keeping his lower body quiet and restricting his lower body rotation?

[Medici999]

im still struggling like mad with these, feeling as though on my downswing my right shoulder is coming out and just jumping towards the ball and i cant seem to keep it back. any tips appreciated.

[TEConnor]

im still struggling like mad with these, feeling as though on my downswing my right shoulder is coming out and just jumping towards the ball and i cant seem to keep it back. any tips appreciated.

 

Medici999,

 

It's a bit like skipping a rock across a pond. If your right shoulder is too far "over the top" then you'll dunk right down into the water.

 

Tim

[pocketfulladoubles]

I come over the top if I get a little quick at the top. I think of my arms as going dead, or limp at the top and fall just a split second before I rotate my hips and shoulders. I don't even feel my arms, I just sort of connect to the ball at some point and think about the follow through. If I get weird on the course, it is because I have forgotten this tempo and feel, and need to get the dead arms feel back, with the ever so short delay at the top. In fact, my hips actually fire just a split second before my arms are all the way back.

[yoonie]

I just think "hips", but I've spent a lot of time practicing the movement so it's pretty well ingrained. I used to think "bump my hips towards the target", which worked pretty well till it became more natural.

 

It's very important to have some degree of lateral slide to start your downswing to allow your arms to approach the ball from the inside. With pure rotation, the right hip will be in the way, and you'll be forced over the top. Hogan's drill is a little misleading, mainly because he had such a big slide in his swing naturally that he needed to FEEL as if he was just rotating.

[rosskoss]

My swing thought is to hold my shoulders and my arms back for just a second at the top. I don't of course pause for an actual second but the swing thought lets me get my hips cleared out of the way and increases my lag coming down because I'm trying to hold my hands back while everything else rotates.

[birdie_man]

LEFT SHOULDER UP. (from the top or after a little Float Load....i.e. "drop the club from the top")

 

This is my favourite thing ever just because I think it's perfect.

 

And on a good path also, BTW.

 

(that is to say- Trace A Straight Plane Line in the downswing)