Silly question regarding driver loft and spin

[akao1029]

This may be a silly question...possibly dumb but oh well. I was curious about driver loft and spin. Now I understand that when adjusting loft on a driver, it will increase or decrease spin as well as open or close the face at address. My question is, if I turn a 10.5* head and loft down to say 9*. Would that 10.5* degree head now have the same spin characteristic like a 9* head in the same model? And vice versa? I would think so but figured I'd ask and get a for sure answer.

[Howard_Jones]

Not a dumb question at all, but here is quite a lot....

For DRIVERS the ruler of spin is Vertical gear effects who vary A LOT, all depending on impact position on the face and the heads COG vs impact, so to answer your question we need to take this to a Robot and lab conditions where we can isolate it and make sure impact position and everything else is the same, the only difference is delivered loft....

Then its easy to answer, a 80 mph club speed player will generate 208 rpm of spin for each degree of loft, and spin follows club speed, so if club speed is 100, or 25% higher, spin will also be 25% higher or 270 rpm for each 1* of loft change...

So, on the paper, adding loft is adding launch (1: 0.84) and we add spin at the same time, while real life we might see a drop in spin if we improve impact location vs where it normally was.https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/909991/diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting/p1

[Howard_Jones]

..and about hosels with options for LOFT, is not really Loft directly, but via face angle, so more loft = more closed, but we have to square it back up to fully convert face angle change to become a loft change, if we dont, we only changed face angle, NOT loft, so we are NOT suppose to just let the face be closed, but we have to hoover the club and grip it with a square face angle, THEN we are ready to play the higher or lower loft we got.

[akao1029]

 

Thank you for the explanations Howard...you are a wealth of knowledge. So in regards to spin from adjusting loft, if everything being equal i.e. brand, make, shaft, robot swinging. A 10.5* head turned to play 9* would spin the same as a standard 9* and vice versa 9* head turned into a 10.5* would spin as a standard 10.5*?

And with the adjustable loft sleeve...I'll use myself as an example. Currently I have a 10.5* head that I've turned down to lower the loft to 9*. So essentially at address the club face is sitting/looks open. So I basically need to make sure to get the club head square before impact or essentially I would just be hitting a 10.5* driver with an open face? Hopefully that made sense and I understood you correctly?

[Howard_Jones]

#1 - YES - Loft is loft, the ball has no clue where it came from so it cant react all depending on if it was more static loft or added dynamic loft from shaft bending...,.its still Loft at impact (Sum Dynamic loft) that matters.

We really have 2 options here (3 actually)

#1 - We adjust the hosel up or down of our own choice, square the face back, grip it and rip it.

#2 - We adjust the hosel, lets say open to get lower loft. You can now use option #1 (square it up now), OR close it up during the swing (good for players with to active wrists who fights a hook)

#3 - We want BOTH a more open face angle (or closed) AND a change of loft (higher or lower), then we can open er close it MORE than we need for loft change, and only square up whats needed to convert face angle to loft, and leave the rest of it as open or closed if we fight a hook or slice....

To understand option #3 il give you one example. a 10.5 head we want to become 9.5*, but we also want some forgiveness or keep the left side / hooks out of play, and we want a fade, not a draw...

If lie is 60* it takes 1.5* on face angle to become 1.0* loft (squared back), so we open this head on face angle to 3.0*, and square op only half, so we leave it 1.5* open, now with 9.5* of loft

[akao1029]

Again, thanks for the explanation and help Howard. It all makes a little more sense haha

[cristphoto]

So if I adjust loft on my driver (TM M4) would it be a good idea to re-install the grip for the "new" square? I always use the logo on my grip as an alignment aid. Or is it such a small amount of change that it really wouldn't show.

[KMeloney]

Just change the loft and see for yourself. It takes 20 seconds. The grip position change will be noticeable with even one click in loft change. It's only a matter of how much you care about your grip being aligned.

[Howard_Jones]

Its a VERY GOOD question you ask here, so lets try to "visualize it"...

If we compare a old fashion analog clock with a compass we have a relationship 1:6 (60 minutes vs 360 degrees)

That means 1 minute on a analog clock is 6* on a compass or protractor, so its silly hard to judge if our face angle is 1*closed - Neutral or 1* open, its only 1/3 of a minute on the clock from one end to the other here...

BUT....if LOFT CHANGE is what you want, be it up or down, adjusting the hosel is only "half the job", the rest is when you "square back" face angle to where you came from. That means DONT look at your grip, but make it your habit to look at the face angle itself, It does not matter that we want be angle to SEE if its 1* closed - Neutral or 1* Open, you will be familiar with "how its suppose to LOOK", and thats the position you shall manually square it back to before you place your hands on the grip.

And yes, if thats a permanent adjustment, and you play RIBBED grips, then i suggest you adjust the grip too, but if its only a alignment grip without a rib, let it be until you need a grip change anyway.

Here is how the M4 looks like 1* closed - Neutral or 1* Open...it takes a trained eye to see the difference, but we get used to how it should look (no matter actual face angle), so thats the "image" from our own memory we use when we say we square it back to where we came from after we made the hosel change.