If anybody tests positive, they should have their Tour card taken away

[hbear]

You seem to think because these athletes perform for money that you own them and they are entiteled to no privacy.

Thats ridiculous. I have no problem with random testing on the job and have worked before where they drug tested . But they did it when I was working. I did not have to be on some 24 hour call to there whim. If they had come to my home and tried to drug test me I would still be suing them.

 

Besides from what I understand it takes weeks to get this stuff out of their system so what is the emergency.

 

Somewhere somehow there has to be and end to this type of idiocy

 

Who said no privacy...it's not like testing labs are knocking down the door harassing athletes at 3:00am....or hunting them down to make them pee in a cup. Lets get real here.

 

Random unannounced drug testing AGAIN is done to protect the athlete (by ensuring the playing field is level). The reason unannounced testing is required is because MANY drugs are used during "off-season" training and such and not beneficial on competition day itself.

 

E.g. Most anabolic steroids are used during "build" phases in the off-season....that is where they are most effective. To help build/repair muscle during training. Once the body has become trained to a certain level, you can maintain it without the drug. So if an athlete goes off their cycle long enough before an event, they get the benefits, but still test clean. The only way to catch these cheats is via unannounced testing.

 

And for what it's worth....testing DOES NOT target specific athletes...testing is done in either a random fashion (lottery like based on start lists/rankings) or by placing (e.g. we are going to test the top 3 athletes). In no way can the testing target a specific player for x/y reason. E.g. Tiger is looking pretty buff...we are going to test him. Nope that doesn't fly and testing DOES get thrown out.

 

I don't see what the fuss is about, if an organisation has a poilicy in place, you can either a) abide by it, of b) don't and find yourself another job. I don't understand how playing golf for a living is somebody's right. It's not. Perhaps you can make an arguement about peeing in a cup to collect a social security cheque....but pro golf is FAR from that world, you cannot mix the two.

 

 

How is 6 months enough time to get clean?????????????????

 

If say a golfer takes Creatine, it will take 5-6 weeks to fully work into the system, then around a minimum of 18 months to pee clean.

 

Remember Linford Cristie the sprinter, another casualty of creatine.

 

You do understand that Creatine is LEGAL to use. HOWEVER because it is a supplement (food lables are lax) and can be tainted with illegal drugs, YOU the ATHLETE are responsible for what you take. All athletes know this, and told this, are aware of this.....so those that still play dumb cannot use the "I didn't know how it got there" excuse. It doesn't matter if you willingly or mistakenly taken an illegal drug....it's in your system and that's all that matters.

 

As well in regards to Linford's case, it was not Creatine that did him in....it was the fact he tested POSITIVE for NANDROLONE (an anabolic steroid) which IS NOT Creatine.

[Swingtheclub]

"The Tour will begin conducting random testing for performance-enhancing and recreational drugs on that date, although testing will not be limited to on-site at Tour events. A controversial aspect of the new policy warns players they can be tested anywhere, at any time, including in their homes."

 

I believe if they go to the wrong players house and demand a test , there will be a lawsuit and the player will win.

That seems like such and invasion of the players privacy and totally lame to begin with.

 

 

Ken

 

And why should golfers be given more latitude than any olympic level athlete??

This is what our olympians have to deal will all the time.

 

And the stance is simple.

Should you wish to participate in the sport and make the big $$$, you are subject to random testing.

If you don't like it, you do not HAVE to participate in the test (they will declare you positive for non compliance) and you do not HAVE to participate on tour. There are PLEANTY of other jobs out there you can do that will not subject you to random testing....

Athlete choice.

 

WADA (World Anti Doping Association) has a long list of things Athletes CAN and CAN'T take.

Should they need something for medical reasons...e.g. Inhaler, an MD can perscribe, and there needs to be documentation about it (Theraputic Use Exemptions).

 

The only part that is more difficult on the athlete is supplements, as most supplements are considered "food" and as such are not held to the same standard of labling/control as pharmacy type drugs.

A "muscle builder" shake can contain prohibited steriods...but not be disclosed on the lable.

http://www.cces.ca/forms/index.cfm?dsp=tem...=152&lang=e for more info.

 

As anything, as a high performance athlete, the onus is on YOU to be 100% sure what you are taking/eating is safe.

We teach our athletes that if you cannot be 100% sure....don't take it.

 

Honestly olympic athletes have been doing this for decades.....it really is not too much to ask.

 

You seem to think because these athletes perform for money that you own them and they are entiteled to no privacy.

Thats ridiculous. I have no problem with random testing on the job and have worked before where they drug tested . But they did it when I was working. I did not have to be on some 24 hour call to there whim. If they had come to my home and tried to drug test me I would still be suing them.

 

 

 

 

Ken, you seem quite sue happy today. If someone shows up at your house, knocks on your door and says they are here to administer a drug test, and you refuse to take it, they are simply going to get back in their car and drive away. So what exactly are you suing for? I don't think anyone from the drug testing lab is going to barge into your house and force you to pee in a cup.

 

 

So what happens if they refuse the test? I mean I am a PGA tour player and I am having a dinner party and the drug testers . Can you imagine the embarrassment. So I tell them to go away and the tour suspends. Lawsuit time.

 

I just think doing it outside their work enviorment is and invasion of privacy.

 

 

Let me make this very clear I am not against the drug testing nor that it is random and I do not know enough about these drugs to say if certain ones should or should not count. My argument is the players basically having to be available 24 hours a day seven days a week for testing not just at tournament sights.

[hbear]

So what happens if they refuse the test? I mean I am a PGA tour player and I am having a dinner party and the drug testers . Can you imagine the embarrassment. So I tell them to go away and the tour suspends. Lawsuit time.

 

I just think doing it outside their work enviorment is and invasion of privacy.

 

What embarassment? It's part of being an athlete. I'd think an on call physician that gets called back to work because some guy took too many viagra an now has an uncontrollable erection would be more embarassing. :tongue:

 

Regardless testers mainly come during "work hours/training hours" not on a Saturday night when you are hosting a dinner party.

 

Here's how it works.

a) An authorized DCO (Doping control officer) arrives at their training venue, home or work, etc., and presents athlete with an Athlete Selection Order (No Advance Notice Testing);

b) athletes are notified by telephone and are requested to report to a designated DCO and testing location as soon as possible (and no later than within twenty-four (24) hours of being notified (Advance Notice Testing).

 

Most often it is B (for individaul athletes, for teams seems to be more show up on site testing because they know the schedule better), as it is much easier to manage for the testing control officers.

But as I said, if it's A, it's normally during work/training hours as the DCO do also have better things to do on a Saturday night then to chase down an athlete to watch him/her pee in a cup.

 

And I believe if you just are unable to do your stuff right then and there (no advanced notice testing) you are given x hours to show up at a testing location when you are able to pee.

(I forget the timeline as I haven't presented the info session to our athletes for a couple years)

[Swingtheclub]

basicly we just have to disagree on this one my friend. I think its ludicrous that they even have the option to come to your house or demand you report some place.

 

I simply think the testing should be done at tournament sites I have no idea why they would even want the other options.

 

But I assure you if I was put in that position by any employer we would have to test its legality in our legal system. I also believe I would win, but thats just my opinion and a big step for me to expect judges to use common sense.

[DaveyH]

the aim of the ball is to get it in the hole in the least shots...

Steroids dont help that so that would be fairly pointless

i think they should be fined and issued a 2 year ban similar to athletics

until the substances effect wears off.

[hbear]

Fair enough, but since many performance enhancing drugs are used only during training phases and not during competition phases.....I don't see how else one would catch those cheaters.

[gregcindyh]

Look at Tigers head and arms, the hair growth is patchy to say the least, one of the most obviouse effects of a body producing way to many steroids. How can a man taking NO stimulants work out everyday for 3 hours without total muscle fatigue, especially on a day today basis.

I've been in the gym since 1978 and know exactly what people on steriods look like. If you think TW is on the sauce, you better check your sources. I stood right next to him on the first T at the Target in December, if he's on Roids then I'm blind. He is a well built person, but when you see him in person he looks thin, almost skinny. He might have a 29" waist?

I am his hieght and outway him by about 20lbs. My waist is 32". I took steroids about 18 years ago and started playing golf 10 years ago. I had to stop working out for bulk because I couldn't swing the club. His skin doesn't have a look it becomes on steroids, pimples on the shoulders and neck, sweat even when it's cool, swolen around the joints, must I go on? For you to say he is on the juice, I've been around it for a long time. I didn't see that AT ALL!

[JHoward2010]

Look at Tigers head and arms, the hair growth is patchy to say the least, one of the most obviouse effects of a body producing way to many steroids. How can a man taking NO stimulants work out everyday for 3 hours without total muscle fatigue, especially on a day today basis.

I've been in the gym since 1978 and know exactly what people on steriods look like. If you think TW is on the sauce, you better check your sources. I stood right next to him on the first T at the Target in December, if he's on Roids then I'm blind. He is a well built person, but when you see him in person he looks thin, almost skinny. He might have a 29" waist?

I am his hieght and outway him by about 20lbs. My waist is 32". I took steroids about 18 years ago and started playing golf 10 years ago. I had to stop working out for bulk because I couldn't swing the club. His skin doesn't have a look it becomes on steroids, pimples on the shoulders and neck, sweat even when it's cool, swolen around the joints, must I go on? For you to say he is on the juice, I've been around it for a long time. I didn't see that AT ALL!

 

You've got the right idea with Tiger. The reason is he so "ripped" isn't because he's on steroids...it's because he runs tons of miles each week and has almost zero body fat. Just about anybody will be "ripped" if they have as much body fat as he does.

 

I would be willing to bet there isn't a single golfer on the PGA or Euro Tour that is on steroids for the purpose of becoming stronger. Some, just like many of us, has surely taken some form of steroids at some time or another to combat an illness...but obeyed doctor's prescriptions and stopped once they healed. If people want to see how a person looks when they are "juiced," all you have to is tune in to the WWE.

[gregcindyh]

Look at Tigers head and arms, the hair growth is patchy to say the least, one of the most obviouse effects of a body producing way to many steroids. How can a man taking NO stimulants work out everyday for 3 hours without total muscle fatigue, especially on a day today basis.

I've been in the gym since 1978 and know exactly what people on steriods look like. If you think TW is on the sauce, you better check your sources. I stood right next to him on the first T at the Target in December, if he's on Roids then I'm blind. He is a well built person, but when you see him in person he looks thin, almost skinny. He might have a 29" waist?

I am his hieght and outway him by about 20lbs. My waist is 32". I took steroids about 18 years ago and started playing golf 10 years ago. I had to stop working out for bulk because I couldn't swing the club. His skin doesn't have a look it becomes on steroids, pimples on the shoulders and neck, sweat even when it's cool, swolen around the joints, must I go on? For you to say he is on the juice, I've been around it for a long time. I didn't see that AT ALL!

 

You've got the right idea with Tiger. The reason is he so "ripped" isn't because he's on steroids...it's because he runs tons of miles each week and has almost zero body fat. Just about anybody will be "ripped" if they have as much body fat as he does.

 

I would be willing to bet there isn't a single golfer on the PGA or Euro Tour that is on steroids for the purpose of becoming stronger. Some, just like many of us, has surely taken some form of steroids at some time or another to combat an illness...but obeyed doctor's prescriptions and stopped once they healed. If people want to see how a person looks when they are "juiced," all you have to is tune in to the WWE.

Also, to get more technical, the body can't produce steriods. Steriods are derived from the petuatary gland of humans, horses and other animals and synthetic chemicals. We have all seen men who have lost hair at early ages and patchy at that. I'm 50 and work around 2 hours 5 days a week and jog every other day I can't ride my bike 25 miles. So, to say you have to take roids to maintain a workout reegiment is silly. TW is young and has been on a routine for years. It really becomes a habit and then a lifestyle that can be had. I think were seeing the golfer becoming more like the athletes who train for more physically demanding sports like soccer, football, track etc... The results show on the golf course and the physique!

[stealthontour]

There is NO way Tiger is on any kind of steriod or illegal enhancing stimulant.... HE'S NOT THAT STUPID.... he's reputation and legacy as an individual and sports icon is too precious to risk anything like that. He is simply a very well tuned athelete, something that the sport of golf didn't have until the 90's apart from people like Nick Faldo and Gary Player who realised working out was a good thing for their careers early on...

 

Golf is a sport, and it has to jump into line with all other sports regarding drugs policy. Drugs aren't a problem in Golf like Athletics and Baseball, but if we say NO to testing and the testing policy then everyone outside of golf assumes that you have something to hide and do some kind of drugs (performance enhancing or recreational)

 

I think some people are getting carried away with the infringment on a person's life and privacy away from the golf course. Unfortunatley it's a simple fact of sport and drug testing that you have to ahere to the regulations of testing. Realistcally what will happen is onsite tournament testing and players will have to accept that they will recieve calls for random testing away from events, but they will be phoned first to ascertain their whereabouts and then be given a place to report to or meet a tester close to them.

 

It's simple... the tour has rules, if you want to play on tour stick to the rules....

[bmaas03]

Having someone show up at my door, cup in hand, would be a small price to pay for the cash that most of the PGA tour guys rake in.

If I was them, I'd drink water all day long so that when they showed up I could wizz on command and send them on their merry way whilst I go back to watching my $8000 flat screen TV on my $12,000 custom leather sofa in my $1.8 million house.

[Navyplayer]

I for one am grateful that the PGA has taken a hard line stance on the topic of Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDS).

 

For those of you that do not believe that certain “banned” substances can change the outcome of a golf tournament, then you are living in a world of ignorance.

 

Before you flame me… I’m not talking about your local hack, sandbagger, men’s club tournaments I’m talking about the PGA tour, were most if not all players of the sport are very close in their abilities to put the ball in the cup .

 

I raced road bikes for 15 years and have seen first hand the difference that certain drugs will allow the human body to do. If I told you, that you as a golfer in one day could walk 54 holes of golf, in a 100’ plus weather, over a hilly challenging course, and be ready to do it again over the next 2 days straight with energy to spare would you be interested in how?? How about if I told you, there is another way, though PEDS, that you could walk 54 holes of golf in one day, in a 100’ plus weather, over a hilly challenging course, and be ready to do it again over the next 20 days straight with energy to spare?? Would you have an advantage over the next player if your talents were very similar?

 

When folks talk PEDS they automatically think Steroids, there are all kinds of PEDS besides steroids and choosing one to be able to play better than the next guy during a golf match is very, easy. PEDS, along with talent, hard work and a great mind will enable a mediocre player to become above average, and a good player to be great. In a world were one or two strokes can be worth thousands of dollars in prizes, money, endorsement’s and the possibility of records that may be broken at any given tournament the lure of PED’s can be great.

 

 

Still not convinced? Clink on the link attached.

www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=9

[stealthontour]

I for one am grateful that the PGA has taken a hard line stance on the topic of Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDS).

 

For those of you that do not believe that certain “banned” substances can change the outcome of a golf tournament, then you are living in a world of ignorance.

 

Before you flame me… I’m not talking about your local hack, sandbagger, men’s club tournaments I’m talking about the PGA tour, were most if not all players of the sport are very close in their abilities to put the ball in the cup .

 

I raced road bikes for 15 years and have seen first hand the difference that certain drugs will allow the human body to do. If I told you, that you as a golfer in one day could walk 54 holes of golf, in a 100’ plus weather, over a hilly challenging course, and be ready to do it again over the next 2 days straight with energy to spare would you be interested in how?? How about if I told you, there is another way, though PEDS, that you could walk 54 holes of golf in one day, in a 100’ plus weather, over a hilly challenging course, and be ready to do it again over the next 20 days straight with energy to spare?? Would you have an advantage over the next player if your talents were very similar?

 

When folks talk PEDS they automatically think Steroids, there are all kinds of PEDS besides steroids and choosing one to be able to play better than the next guy during a golf match is very, easy. PEDS, along with talent, hard work and a great mind will enable a mediocre player to become above average, and a good player to be great. In a world were one or two strokes can be worth thousands of dollars in prizes, money, endorsement’s and the possibility of records that may be broken at any given tournament the lure of PED’s can be great.

 

 

Still not convinced? Clink on the link attached.

www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=9

 

That's one scary website forum.......

 

Mind you I supose to people who don't understand golf our site here could look a little odd when we start salivating over new clubs..... :tongue:

[krustyburger]

Look at Tigers head and arms, the hair growth is patchy to say the least, one of the most obviouse effects of a body producing way to many steroids. How can a man taking NO stimulants work out everyday for 3 hours without total muscle fatigue, especially on a day today basis.

I've been in the gym since 1978 and know exactly what people on steriods look like. If you think TW is on the sauce, you better check your sources. I stood right next to him on the first T at the Target in December, if he's on Roids then I'm blind. He is a well built person, but when you see him in person he looks thin, almost skinny. He might have a 29" waist?

I am his hieght and outway him by about 20lbs. My waist is 32". I took steroids about 18 years ago and started playing golf 10 years ago. I had to stop working out for bulk because I couldn't swing the club. His skin doesn't have a look it becomes on steroids, pimples on the shoulders and neck, sweat even when it's cool, swolen around the joints, must I go on? For you to say he is on the juice, I've been around it for a long time. I didn't see that AT ALL!

 

You've got the right idea with Tiger. The reason is he so "ripped" isn't because he's on steroids...it's because he runs tons of miles each week and has almost zero body fat. Just about anybody will be "ripped" if they have as much body fat as he does.

 

I would be willing to bet there isn't a single golfer on the PGA or Euro Tour that is on steroids for the purpose of becoming stronger. Some, just like many of us, has surely taken some form of steroids at some time or another to combat an illness...but obeyed doctor's prescriptions and stopped once they healed. If people want to see how a person looks when they are "juiced," all you have to is tune in to the WWE.

 

I think there is a lot of naivete when it comes to steroids. Does Floyd Landis look like he could be on the WWE? Or any other cyclist for that matter? You don't have to automatically bulk up like a pro wrestler when you use steroids. Used properly, you won't look like the hulk, and you won't necessarily get acne or swollen joints.

[JHoward2010]

Look at Tigers head and arms, the hair growth is patchy to say the least, one of the most obviouse effects of a body producing way to many steroids. How can a man taking NO stimulants work out everyday for 3 hours without total muscle fatigue, especially on a day today basis.

I've been in the gym since 1978 and know exactly what people on steriods look like. If you think TW is on the sauce, you better check your sources. I stood right next to him on the first T at the Target in December, if he's on Roids then I'm blind. He is a well built person, but when you see him in person he looks thin, almost skinny. He might have a 29" waist?

I am his hieght and outway him by about 20lbs. My waist is 32". I took steroids about 18 years ago and started playing golf 10 years ago. I had to stop working out for bulk because I couldn't swing the club. His skin doesn't have a look it becomes on steroids, pimples on the shoulders and neck, sweat even when it's cool, swolen around the joints, must I go on? For you to say he is on the juice, I've been around it for a long time. I didn't see that AT ALL!

 

You've got the right idea with Tiger. The reason is he so "ripped" isn't because he's on steroids...it's because he runs tons of miles each week and has almost zero body fat. Just about anybody will be "ripped" if they have as much body fat as he does.

 

I would be willing to bet there isn't a single golfer on the PGA or Euro Tour that is on steroids for the purpose of becoming stronger. Some, just like many of us, has surely taken some form of steroids at some time or another to combat an illness...but obeyed doctor's prescriptions and stopped once they healed. If people want to see how a person looks when they are "juiced," all you have to is tune in to the WWE.

 

I think there is a lot of naivete when it comes to steroids. Does Floyd Landis look like he could be on the WWE? Or any other cyclist for that matter? You don't have to automatically bulk up like a pro wrestler when you use steroids. Used properly, you won't look like the hulk, and you won't necessarily get acne or swollen joints.

 

Cyclist take a form of performance enhancer for endurance, right? I haven't ever watched bicycle race in my life, and I don't watch Sportscenter...so I have no idea who Floyd Landis is, heard the name but that's it. However, the topic of steriods in golf is to be able to hit the ball further, correct? If the goal is to hit it further with increased strength...then I would certainly expect to see the guys using it getting bigger, with more muscle mass. The WWE guys go to the extreme, so no...I wouldn't expect a golfer to look like that. However, I would definately expect to see a marked change in a player's body over the offseason or some other stretch of time.

 

So what are you saying? That the greatest golfer in the world, who won tons of amatuer tournaments as a skinny, little kid, and smoked the world's best as a 21 year old in Augusta...began taking some form of steroids in the last few years when he started to get bigger and "ripped???" Lots of guys get bigger, thicker, during their mid to late 20s. There is NO WAY Tiger would risk becoming the most hated man in all of sport by taking some form of illegal substance, just to gain a little more muscle. The guy's job is to work out, stay in top shape, and practice all the time. That's why he is the greatest ever...because he works harder than everybody else.

[krustyburger]

Look at Tigers head and arms, the hair growth is patchy to say the least, one of the most obviouse effects of a body producing way to many steroids. How can a man taking NO stimulants work out everyday for 3 hours without total muscle fatigue, especially on a day today basis.

I've been in the gym since 1978 and know exactly what people on steriods look like. If you think TW is on the sauce, you better check your sources. I stood right next to him on the first T at the Target in December, if he's on Roids then I'm blind. He is a well built person, but when you see him in person he looks thin, almost skinny. He might have a 29" waist?

I am his hieght and outway him by about 20lbs. My waist is 32". I took steroids about 18 years ago and started playing golf 10 years ago. I had to stop working out for bulk because I couldn't swing the club. His skin doesn't have a look it becomes on steroids, pimples on the shoulders and neck, sweat even when it's cool, swolen around the joints, must I go on? For you to say he is on the juice, I've been around it for a long time. I didn't see that AT ALL!

 

You've got the right idea with Tiger. The reason is he so "ripped" isn't because he's on steroids...it's because he runs tons of miles each week and has almost zero body fat. Just about anybody will be "ripped" if they have as much body fat as he does.

 

I would be willing to bet there isn't a single golfer on the PGA or Euro Tour that is on steroids for the purpose of becoming stronger. Some, just like many of us, has surely taken some form of steroids at some time or another to combat an illness...but obeyed doctor's prescriptions and stopped once they healed. If people want to see how a person looks when they are "juiced," all you have to is tune in to the WWE.

 

I think there is a lot of naivete when it comes to steroids. Does Floyd Landis look like he could be on the WWE? Or any other cyclist for that matter? You don't have to automatically bulk up like a pro wrestler when you use steroids. Used properly, you won't look like the hulk, and you won't necessarily get acne or swollen joints.

 

Cyclist take a form of performance enhancer for endurance, right? I haven't ever watched bicycle race in my life, and I don't watch Sportscenter...so I have no idea who Floyd Landis is, heard the name but that's it. However, the topic of steriods in golf is to be able to hit the ball further, correct? If the goal is to hit it further with increased strength...then I would certainly expect to see the guys using it getting bigger, with more muscle mass. The WWE guys go to the extreme, so no...I wouldn't expect a golfer to look like that. However, I would definately expect to see a marked change in a player's body over the offseason or some other stretch of time.

 

So what are you saying? That the greatest golfer in the world, who won tons of amatuer tournaments as a skinny, little kid, and smoked the world's best as a 21 year old in Augusta...began taking some form of steroids in the last few years when he started to get bigger and "ripped???" Lots of guys get bigger, thicker, during their mid to late 20s. There is NO WAY Tiger would risk becoming the most hated man in all of sport by taking some form of illegal substance, just to gain a little more muscle. The guy's job is to work out, stay in top shape, and practice all the time. That's why he is the greatest ever...because he works harder than everybody else.

I didn't say anything about Tiger. I don't think he uses any steroids or other enhancers. I was replying to those who think that anyone who uses steroids must look like a pro wrestler. Nothing could be further from the truth. Floyd Landis got his Tour de France title stripped because he tested positive for steroids (as did several others in this year's race). Landis is as thin as a rail, and weighs maybe 160 pounds soaking wet.

 

If someone uses steroids to help hit the ball 10-20 yards further, there isn't going to be that significant of a change in body mass. If Tiger can become more muscular naturally, why is it beyond the realm of believability that someone less motivated than Tiger might try for the same results with a little synthetic help?

 

This is the same argument that people used to make about baseball players. People would say "steroids don't help hand/eye coordination, so how would they help you hit a ball?" Now people say about golf "steroids won't help your short game, so why would anyone do it?" Well, the top baseball players already have great hand/eye coordination, they don't need help there. The steroids didn't help them hit the ball, they just helped them hit it farther. Same thing in golf. These guys already have a world class short game. But wouldn't hitting an 8-iron into a green be an advantage over hitting a 6-iron?

 

I'm not saying that anyone in golf is actually doing it, but with that much money on the line, there is bound to be someone that tries it eventually.

[gregcindyh]

Look at Tigers head and arms, the hair growth is patchy to say the least, one of the most obviouse effects of a body producing way to many steroids. How can a man taking NO stimulants work out everyday for 3 hours without total muscle fatigue, especially on a day today basis.

I've been in the gym since 1978 and know exactly what people on steriods look like. If you think TW is on the sauce, you better check your sources. I stood right next to him on the first T at the Target in December, if he's on Roids then I'm blind. He is a well built person, but when you see him in person he looks thin, almost skinny. He might have a 29" waist?

I am his hieght and outway him by about 20lbs. My waist is 32". I took steroids about 18 years ago and started playing golf 10 years ago. I had to stop working out for bulk because I couldn't swing the club. His skin doesn't have a look it becomes on steroids, pimples on the shoulders and neck, sweat even when it's cool, swolen around the joints, must I go on? For you to say he is on the juice, I've been around it for a long time. I didn't see that AT ALL!

 

You've got the right idea with Tiger. The reason is he so "ripped" isn't because he's on steroids...it's because he runs tons of miles each week and has almost zero body fat. Just about anybody will be "ripped" if they have as much body fat as he does.

 

I would be willing to bet there isn't a single golfer on the PGA or Euro Tour that is on steroids for the purpose of becoming stronger. Some, just like many of us, has surely taken some form of steroids at some time or another to combat an illness...but obeyed doctor's prescriptions and stopped once they healed. If people want to see how a person looks when they are "juiced," all you have to is tune in to the WWE.

 

I think there is a lot of naivete when it comes to steroids. Does Floyd Landis look like he could be on the WWE? Or any other cyclist for that matter? You don't have to automatically bulk up like a pro wrestler when you use steroids. Used properly, you won't look like the hulk, and you won't necessarily get acne or swollen joints.

 

Cyclist take a form of performance enhancer for endurance, right? I haven't ever watched bicycle race in my life, and I don't watch Sportscenter...so I have no idea who Floyd Landis is, heard the name but that's it. However, the topic of steriods in golf is to be able to hit the ball further, correct? If the goal is to hit it further with increased strength...then I would certainly expect to see the guys using it getting bigger, with more muscle mass. The WWE guys go to the extreme, so no...I wouldn't expect a golfer to look like that. However, I would definately expect to see a marked change in a player's body over the offseason or some other stretch of time.

 

So what are you saying? That the greatest golfer in the world, who won tons of amatuer tournaments as a skinny, little kid, and smoked the world's best as a 21 year old in Augusta...began taking some form of steroids in the last few years when he started to get bigger and "ripped???" Lots of guys get bigger, thicker, during their mid to late 20s. There is NO WAY Tiger would risk becoming the most hated man in all of sport by taking some form of illegal substance, just to gain a little more muscle. The guy's job is to work out, stay in top shape, and practice all the time. That's why he is the greatest ever...because he works harder than everybody else.

When it comes to golf, I really don't believe "PEDS" will help. If a person's diet and training is proper they will feel better than you realize. The reason I know is because I've been on both sides. I don't care how much you think you read or know until you've done it. I have. Do you think Daly takes "PEDS"? If he got his act together he might possibly be a threat to TW. He's way out of shape. But is blessed with gobbs of talent. It's not as much about the physique in golf as it is about talent and mind. TW and some others just happen to be blessed with both!

 

I'm not a professional golfer but have won a lot of loclal stuff. Which doesn't mean anything to most. I just know that talent like the top players is a gift and the ones who put the time and effort in reap! I'm not saying golfers don't take it, I sure there might be a few?

[krustyburger]

When it comes to golf, I really don't believe "PEDS" will help. If a person's diet and training is proper they will feel better than you realize. The reason I know is because I've been on both sides. I don't care how much you think you read or know until you've done it. I have. Do you think Daly takes "PEDS"? If he got his act together he might possibly be a threat to TW. He's way out of shape. But is blessed with gobbs of talent. It's not as much about the physique in golf as it is about talent and mind. TW and some others just happen to be blessed with both!

 

I'm not a professional golfer but have won a lot of loclal stuff. Which doesn't mean anything to most. I just know that talent like the top players is a gift and the ones who put the time and effort in reap! I'm not saying golfers don't take it, I sure there might be a few?

I agree, there is probably no more than a few players doing it, if any at all. But I think it's wrong to keep focusing on Tiger and the other top players. If anyone is doing it, it's going to be some journeyman player who is ranked low on the money list, and realizes that the difference between making a mid six-figure salary or having to take some club pro job for $40,000/year might be his lack of length. He may have a family to support and a mortgage to pay and might feel the pressure to do something. The top players don't need to.

 

And I don't want to sound judgemental. If I was 150th on the money list, and I thought I could move into the top 125 by juicing, and no one was testing, I might do it. I don't know if I would or not, but it's hard to say until you're in that position.

[bmaas03]

When it comes to golf, I really don't believe "PEDS" will help. If a person's diet and training is proper they will feel better than you realize. The reason I know is because I've been on both sides. I don't care how much you think you read or know until you've done it. I have. Do you think Daly takes "PEDS"? If he got his act together he might possibly be a threat to TW. He's way out of shape. But is blessed with gobbs of talent. It's not as much about the physique in golf as it is about talent and mind. TW and some others just happen to be blessed with both!

 

I'm not a professional golfer but have won a lot of loclal stuff. Which doesn't mean anything to most. I just know that talent like the top players is a gift and the ones who put the time and effort in reap! I'm not saying golfers don't take it, I sure there might be a few?

 

 

How is a golfer with "gobbs of talent" any different than any other professional athlete, though? Mark McGwire had gobs of talent. The NFL players that get busted with it have enough talent to become pro. Barry Bonds said that "the clear and the cream" didn't help him hit a baseball either, but he broke the single season home run record after he took them.

Athletes take steroids and they get better. These are some of the most fit people on the planet before they even think about steroids. And athletes in typical "power positions" such as lineman and power hitters aren't the only ones doing it. Several baseball pitchers have been busted, along with a host of 150 pound cyclists. All of these examples are people that already have special gifts. Taking steroids won't make you a professional athlete on their own, but they will make you perform better with the talents you already have.

 

This has been said before, but people have to get away from the idea that steroids are only used to make someone a muscle bound freak. "Performance Enhancing Drugs" is the thought that should go through anyone's mind. They are made to shred weight, make muscles recover more quickly, improve endurance, and a host of other things which would be beneficial for a golfer. Don't kid yourselves. A proactive stance with zero positive results is better than having a golfer's name show up in a congressional report because they wrote a check for HGH and an undercover agent caught them. Kudos to the PGA for being active and squashing rumors before they start by having a testing program.

[gregcindyh]

When it comes to golf, I really don't believe "PEDS" will help. If a person's diet and training is proper they will feel better than you realize. The reason I know is because I've been on both sides. I don't care how much you think you read or know until you've done it. I have. Do you think Daly takes "PEDS"? If he got his act together he might possibly be a threat to TW. He's way out of shape. But is blessed with gobbs of talent. It's not as much about the physique in golf as it is about talent and mind. TW and some others just happen to be blessed with both!

 

I'm not a professional golfer but have won a lot of loclal stuff. Which doesn't mean anything to most. I just know that talent like the top players is a gift and the ones who put the time and effort in reap! I'm not saying golfers don't take it, I sure there might be a few?

 

 

How is a golfer with "gobbs of talent" any different than any other professional athlete, though? Mark McGwire had gobs of talent. The NFL players that get busted with it have enough talent to become pro. Barry Bonds said that "the clear and the cream" didn't help him hit a baseball either, but he broke the single season home run record after he took them.

Athletes take steroids and they get better. These are some of the most fit people on the planet before they even think about steroids. And athletes in typical "power positions" such as lineman and power hitters aren't the only ones doing it. Several baseball pitchers have been busted, along with a host of 150 pound cyclists. All of these examples are people that already have special gifts. Taking steroids won't make you a professional athlete on their own, but they will make you perform better with the talents you already have.

 

This has been said before, but people have to get away from the idea that steroids are only used to make someone a muscle bound freak. "Performance Enhancing Drugs" is the thought that should go through anyone's mind. They are made to shred weight, make muscles recover more quickly, improve endurance, and a host of other things which would be beneficial for a golfer. Don't kid yourselves. A proactive stance with zero positive results is better than having a golfer's name show up in a congressional report because they wrote a check for HGH and an undercover agent caught them. Kudos to the PGA for being active and squashing rumors before they start by having a testing program.

Like I said, Until you have tried it all you can say is what you have heard or read. I tried, it didn't help. A proper diet and training will out last any "PEDS" and is more benficial to any athlete long term. And most golf careers are a lot longer than most of the major sports. I'm not against the testing program, never said I was.

 

Just stateing something I know more than what most people might think they know because they watched Barry Bonds and Big Mac. I have been around this arena with trianing athletes from High School to Collegiate level athletes to physical therapists and Dr's involved with sports medicine and phsycology for over 30 years. Do I claim to know everything, no that would be foolish! But, don't kid yourselves either, there is a lot more to be learned than what is read from articles!

[Night train]

I guess I don't understand why the PGA Tour couldn't have a tester in the locker room every week at each PGA Tour event. 5 or 10 players are selected randomly each week for a test, if you show up at the course and you're name is drawn that week..........you simply spend the 10 minutes (or less) required and that's it. Conduct them on Mon-Wed during Pro-ams and practice round days. It's not that big of a distraction. It's done this way at our place of work and it's no big deal..........2 people a month are randomly tested when they show up for work, no one ever knows who or what day. A certified tester runs the whole deal, collects and seals the samples and leaves.

 

I see no need for this to ever involve a test away from the course.

[hbear]

Like I said, Until you have tried it all you can say is what you have heard or read. I tried, it didn't help. A proper diet and training will out last any "PEDS" and is more benficial to any athlete long term. And most golf careers are a lot longer than most of the major sports. I'm not against the testing program, never said I was.

 

However, just because it did not work for YOU, does not mean it doesn't work.

That's like saying "I tried that claw putting grip, and trust me it doesn't help." Perhaps....but just ask Chris Dimarco if there is something to the claw grip (seeing how he was on the brink of his career before he found it).

 

There is AMPLE evidence that it helps in sports like baseball and such (which are not unsimilar to Golf if you think about it).

Again, just because it did not work for you...doesn't mean it doesn't work.

 

I guess I don't understand why the PGA Tour couldn't have a tester in the locker room every week at each PGA Tour event. 5 or 10 players are selected randomly each week for a test, if you show up at the course and you're name is drawn that week..........you simply spend the 10 minutes (or less) required and that's it. Conduct them on Mon-Wed during Pro-ams and practice round days. It's not that big of a distraction. It's done this way at our place of work and it's no big deal..........2 people a month are randomly tested when they show up for work, no one ever knows who or what day. A certified tester runs the whole deal, collects and seals the samples and leaves.

 

I see no need for this to ever involve a test away from the course.

 

Again, not ALL PEDS are taken DURING competition....many are actually used out of competition during training.

If testing is only to be conducted during competitions....how is the PGA going to catch or deter those cheaters???

[Tim Delgado]

Like I said, Until you have tried it all you can say is what you have heard or read. I tried, it didn't help. A proper diet and training will out last any "PEDS" and is more benficial to any athlete long term. And most golf careers are a lot longer than most of the major sports. I'm not against the testing program, never said I was.

 

However, just because it did not work for YOU, does not mean it doesn't work.

That's like saying "I tried that claw putting grip, and trust me it doesn't help." Perhaps....but just ask Chris Dimarco if there is something to the claw grip (seeing how he was on the brink of his career before he found it).

 

There is AMPLE evidence that it helps in sports like baseball and such (which are not unsimilar to Golf if you think about it).

Again, just because it did not work for you...doesn't mean it doesn't work.

 

I guess I don't understand why the PGA Tour couldn't have a tester in the locker room every week at each PGA Tour event. 5 or 10 players are selected randomly each week for a test, if you show up at the course and you're name is drawn that week..........you simply spend the 10 minutes (or less) required and that's it. Conduct them on Mon-Wed during Pro-ams and practice round days. It's not that big of a distraction. It's done this way at our place of work and it's no big deal..........2 people a month are randomly tested when they show up for work, no one ever knows who or what day. A certified tester runs the whole deal, collects and seals the samples and leaves.

 

I see no need for this to ever involve a test away from the course.

 

Again, not ALL PEDS are taken DURING competition....many are actually used out of competition during training.

If testing is only to be conducted during competitions....how is the PGA going to catch or deter those cheaters???

 

 

Sorry Greg, but HBear is right on this one.

 

PEDS work and work AMAZINGLY fast and well, simple as that. If they did not work for you it is only because you did not know what to take and how to take it. ANYONE can quickly hit the ball farther and recover from fatigue faster within WEEKS of starting a "program".

 

Tim