If anybody tests positive, they should have their Tour card taken away

[MuskieCy]

Here you go. Six months notice.

 

More than enough time to get clean.

 

http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2008/01/30...3405.txt?sPos=2 :tongue:

 

:ok:

[mat562]

I agree.

 

It's about time all these nasal decongestant-snorting pros were taken to task for their blatant cheating.

 

And I suspect with a certain player's recent form he's perhaps been imbibing a bit of cough syrup...

 

Hound these cheats out of the game I say; with a foolproof, 100% accurate testing program that can't be tricked by over the counter medicines that are taken legitimately and give no performance enhancement whatsoever, but give a positive reading nonetheless.

 

Nothing like over-engineering a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...

[vaca22]

LOL great post mat562.

 

I susupect if players are caught it will be because of some perscribed medicine or something like that. Shame on anyone who gets caught with something like HGH or anabolic steroids though...that would really break my heart.

[e-dog9]

Every sport ought to have two leagues. One for guys who juice, and one for guys who don't. Bet dollars to dog-nuts, that people would watch the roids tour before all others.

 

And yes I did just say DOG-NUTS!

[JHoward2010]

Every sport ought to have two leagues. One for guys who juice, and one for guys who don't. Bet dollars to dog-nuts, that people would watch the roids tour before all others.

 

And yes I did just say DOG-NUTS!

 

 

What does it matter what people would watch? This topic in our society is about good ethics and achieving through the process of hard work, not who takes the most drugs.

[PurePursuit]

I have to respectfully disagree with you mat, why wouldn't guys take HGH or other performance enhancing drugs in golf? I'm not speaking along the lines of strictly Steroids, but HGH can do some serious stuff to aid in the overall performance of ones body. Six months is plenty of time for them to clear it out of their system and golf is a game where everyone but tiger fluctuates so monitoring performance isn't a tall tell either.

[e-dog9]

Its not that simple. Yes, people want ethics, but they also want home runs, quarterback sacks and big blowouts. And they are willing to forgo some ethics and/or let themselves be blinded in order to see the modern carnival of professional sports.

[JHoward2010]

Its not that simple. Yes, people want ethics, but they also want home runs, quarterback sacks and big blowouts. And they are willing to forgo some ethics and/or let them selves be blinded in order to see the modern carnival of professional sports.

 

 

Just because there is a segment of the population that wants to see something doesn't make it correct or that it should be allowed. Roughly 2,000 years ago people wanted to see gladiators fight to the death and watch Christians get ate by lions...guess since that's what the people wanted it should have never been stopped. :tongue:

 

There would still be home runs, sacks, and blowouts without artificial enhancement. Although, I don't understand how steroids has any affect on sacks or blowouts...if the OL and DL both use, then their performance will be enhanced at the same rate, and the numbers of sacks would not increase or decrease. In regards to blowouts...that would have no relation on steroids at all. In the early, drug free, days of college football there were real blowouts, scores like 112 - 2.

[PurePursuit]

LOL JHoward, I agree completely. Just because 10,000 people feel they should get free big screen HD TV's doesn't mean we should condone them going down to Best Buy and walking out with them. Its a little more complicated than you think e-dog.

[e-dog9]

LOL JHoward, I agree completely. Just because 10,000 people feel they should get free big screen HD TV's doesn't mean we should condone them going down to Best Buy and walking out with them. Its a little more complicated than you think e-dog.

 

That’s not remotely close to tight or apt analogy. Frankly, it makes no sense.

 

Furthermore, I did not say we should all condone this behavior. My earlier comment was a sarcastic and flippant illumination that people don't mind certain types of cheating all that much, so long as it leads to superior play, which in base ball it certainly has. No doubt it has in other sports as well.

[scubus]

Sorry to see testing being implemented...

 

:tongue:

[Golfdog]

Wait until the pot heads start getting tagged.

[poppyhillsguy]

Thank god the caddies won't be tested.

[irmogolfer04]

Wait until the pot heads start getting tagged.

 

according to an article in either golf week of golf world. If you are caught using recreation drugs I.E pot, crack etc... they probally will not let the positive test go public and just make the player go through some sort of counseling/rehab....

[Night train]

I read an article on golf.com that was sort of surprising..........after a meeting between Finchem/staff and tour members, many players were shocked at what could cause a dirty test. Things like 3 treatments of Vicks vapo rub!

 

I'm all for a drug free tour.........but this sounds like they might have jumped off the deep end.

[stealthontour]

There should be a cut and dry list of banned stuff....ALL players should have to sign something to say they've read and understand it (must be simple text for certain members of the tour...)

 

Then there should be the STANDARD 2 YEARS ban that the World Doping Agency demands of all sports.... Simple, then nobody will even go near the banned substances....or they are stupid if they do.... Harsh, but all sport needs to get real and stick to these rules. If rolemodels can be world beating taking drugs it sets bad examples to kids....

 

The MLB is a laughing stock, to everyone outside of the USA see's Bond's record as a joke, and the joke is on all the fans who think it's a legitimate record....

 

Kerion Fallon, a champion jockey and probably the best in the business at the moment just got banned for 18months for 'recreational' drug use.... Nobody should be exempt....

[scubus]

Unless the substance is performance enhancing, it should not be tested for, and unless there is a 100% reliable test and athletes are 100% tested, nothing should be tested for without some meaningful suspicion before the test is done.

 

Before anyone asks, I don't do drugs, I have never done drugs, I rarely drink and I never considered for a moment performance enhancing substances when I was competing and I don't approve of drugs or performance enhancing substances.

 

Flame away if you must...

[Swingtheclub]

I will not get into the pro's and cons of performance enhancing drugs.

 

I just hope the tour sticks to the present instead of chasing ghost like baseball

 

The statement I found interesting from the link was this

 

"The Tour will begin conducting random testing for performance-enhancing and recreational drugs on that date, although testing will not be limited to on-site at Tour events. A controversial aspect of the new policy warns players they can be tested anywhere, at any time, including in their homes."

 

I believe if they go to the wrong players house and demand a test , there will be a lawsuit and the player will win.

That seems like such and invasion of the players privacy and totally lame to begin with.

 

 

Ken

[stealthontour]

Athletes are on call 24/7 for 'random' drug testing and when they are called they tell them where they are and the drug testing is done within a 1hr drive of wherever they are.... and if you miss 2 tests you get banned as if you failed.... harsh, but it's a zero tolerance policy

[mat562]

The problem is many of the banned substances are contained within legitimate pharmaceutical products.

 

A player can ingest or absorb a banned substance quite easily when taking an over the counter cough remedy, decongestant or muscle rub. Yes, they can sign to say they understand what items are on the prohibited list, but quite easily and unknowingly use those substances legitimately when they use common everyday preparations.

 

It's at best extremely difficult, and in many cases almost impossible to completely avoid many of the supposedly performance-enhancing substances, and in the event of a positive test a player would face sanctions which could include the loss of his livelihood.

 

There are also issues with prescription medication for existing or developing medical conditions.

 

I would have no problem with testing for illegal 'lifestyle' drugs, but when the system starts to include hormones, analgesics and steroids there is a very real danger of innocent people being penalised for unknowingly taking banned substances for perfectly legitimate reasons.

 

The whole testing issue is fraught with danger and, in my opinion, is totally unecessary for the sport of professional golf since there is extremely limited evidence to suggest that a problem of illicit drug use exists. I think golf has taken a bit of a 'everyone else is doing it, so we'll do it too' attitude rather than looking objectively and dispassionately at the issue and making a decision based on a real need for a testing programme.

 

It's disappointing; albeit not as disapointing as it'll be when innocent players start to get walloped with suspensions for using that nasal spray.

[stealthontour]

The problem is many of the banned substances are contained within legitimate pharmaceutical products.

 

A player can ingest or absorb a banned substance quite easily when taking an over the counter cough remedy, decongestant or muscle rub. Yes, they can sign to say they understand what items are on the prohibited list, but quite easily and unknowingly use those substances legitimately when they use common everyday preparations.

 

It's at best extremely difficult, and in many cases almost impossible to completely avoid many of the supposedly performance-enhancing substances, and in the event of a positive test a player would face sanctions which could include the loss of his livelihood.

 

There are also issues with prescription medication for existing or developing medical conditions.

 

I would have no problem with testing for illegal 'lifestyle' drugs, but when the system starts to include hormones, analgesics and steroids there is a very real danger of innocent people being penalised for unknowingly taking banned substances for perfectly legitimate reasons.

 

The whole testing issue is fraught with danger and, in my opinion, is totally unecessary for the sport of professional golf since there is extremely limited evidence to suggest that a problem of illicit drug use exists. I think golf has taken a bit of a 'everyone else is doing it, so we'll do it too' attitude rather than looking objectively and dispassionately at the issue and making a decision based on a real need for a testing programme.

 

It's disappointing; albeit not as disapointing as it'll be when innocent players start to get walloped with suspensions for using that nasal spray.

 

100% agree, but a list would provide all the 'over the counter' medicines that are ok, and all the ones that are not... and any player needing medication for health reasons would need to make sure his doctor is prescribing him something that won't get him banned, or if not the medicine needs to be approved by the tour beforehand..... It's unfair in alot of ways but it's a necasary evil to keep the sport 'clean'....

 

Golf is unique in the fact we don't cheat, and so many players call penalties on themselves and are ultra honest....etc, etc... it would be foolish to let something like not having a drug policy drag the sport into the dirt

[drew123]

they aren't going to have blood test are they? I didn't think you could test for HGH without a blood test?

[bmaas03]

I don't think there is an accurate test for HGH right now anyway, is there?

Steroids and many other performance enhancers can be detected, but there are still many that cannot.

[gregcindyh]

I'm trying to see how Steriods can help in golf. Maybe for endurance? I literally lost 35lbs of muscle just so I could have a decent golf swing. I was so tight and bound up I could hardly hit the ball. I'm now more limber and hit the ball farther. If it's for distance, how are they going to test guys like CH lll and Camillio? These guys are twigs and hit the ball a mile. When I was on the "juice" I had no patience and no feel. I don't think steriods will help for the feel? If someone is on "Roids", their just stupid!

[Redman]

I will agree with the post about us turning our heads to performance enhancing when things were going great. Lets not think for a second that baseball as well as us as fans knew da*n good and well that steriods were rampant. We all turned our heads and forgot about it until one day the media really started blowing this thing up. Now baseball is trying to get out looking like the good guy by penalizing all everyone they can. And it is a joke in my opinion. Should the guys have been using it? Ethically, no. But it was not illegal and just like every other sports supplement that is made people were going to use it (HGH).

 

And the other problem with this is that there is no test to find HGH in someone's system. Baseball has already made that clear. Maybe at some point there will be, but until then there isnt't and to have things show up like Vick's Nasal Spray and get in trouble is a PURE JOKE! Just my 2 cents!!

[Newman]

I don't think there is an accurate test for HGH right now anyway, is there?

Steroids and many other performance enhancers can be detected, but there are still many that cannot.

 

WADA has an accurate test for HGH.

 

I'd be interested to know if beta-blockers are on the list.

[hbear]

"The Tour will begin conducting random testing for performance-enhancing and recreational drugs on that date, although testing will not be limited to on-site at Tour events. A controversial aspect of the new policy warns players they can be tested anywhere, at any time, including in their homes."

 

I believe if they go to the wrong players house and demand a test , there will be a lawsuit and the player will win.

That seems like such and invasion of the players privacy and totally lame to begin with.

 

 

Ken

 

And why should golfers be given more latitude than any olympic level athlete??

This is what our olympians have to deal will all the time.

 

And the stance is simple.

Should you wish to participate in the sport and make the big $$$, you are subject to random testing.

If you don't like it, you do not HAVE to participate in the test (they will declare you positive for non compliance) and you do not HAVE to participate on tour. There are PLEANTY of other jobs out there you can do that will not subject you to random testing....

Athlete choice.

 

WADA (World Anti Doping Association) has a long list of things Athletes CAN and CAN'T take.

Should they need something for medical reasons...e.g. Inhaler, an MD can perscribe, and there needs to be documentation about it (Theraputic Use Exemptions).

 

The only part that is more difficult on the athlete is supplements, as most supplements are considered "food" and as such are not held to the same standard of labling/control as pharmacy type drugs.

A "muscle builder" shake can contain prohibited steriods...but not be disclosed on the lable.

http://www.cces.ca/forms/index.cfm?dsp=tem...=152&lang=e for more info.

 

As anything, as a high performance athlete, the onus is on YOU to be 100% sure what you are taking/eating is safe.

We teach our athletes that if you cannot be 100% sure....don't take it.

 

Honestly olympic athletes have been doing this for decades.....it really is not too much to ask.

[hbear]

I don't think there is an accurate test for HGH right now anyway, is there?

Steroids and many other performance enhancers can be detected, but there are still many that cannot.

 

WADA has an accurate test for HGH.

 

I'd be interested to know if beta-blockers are on the list.

 

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/dynamic.ch2?pageCategory.id=627

 

And yes the problem with current testing methods is that it is reactionary...

e.g. you can only test for substances you know about.

 

Has been well documented with the USTF (track) that certain athletes did infact have "designer" performance enhancers produced only for them by unscrupoulous 3rd parties that yielded an undetecable drug which = clean test.

 

However that being said, a drug testing policy is still valid and important and really in place to protect the athlete.

[fsarfino]

Unless the substance is performance enhancing, it should not be tested for, and unless there is a 100% reliable test and athletes are 100% tested, nothing should be tested for without some meaningful suspicion before the test is done.

 

Before anyone asks, I don't do drugs, I have never done drugs, I rarely drink and I never considered for a moment performance enhancing substances when I was competing and I don't approve of drugs or performance enhancing substances.

 

Flame away if you must...

 

 

Question I have is why are they even testing for recreational drugs anyway? This would have no effect on your playing ability anyways and who really cares what these guys are doing when they get off the course. As far as testing for performance enhancing drugs test all you want.

[smokesplaygolf]

exactly. if there allowed to go to the bar after the round and grab a couple drinks they should be able to go home and smoke a joint.