Standing Up and Not Rotating My Hips

[radiman]

I have been dealing with low back issues for years now.  This last 12 months I have seen a significant improvement after starting a consistent weight lifting regimen.  My core and back are stronger than they've ever been.  Coupled with that, I have been getting regular full body massages (dating a massage therapist and it has it's perks).  

 

My swing speed has jumped pretty significantly.  After dealing with back issues for as long as I had, I had to absolutely crush it to get over 175 ball speed.  Now my cruising speed is around 178-182 depending on the day.  

 

That's all well and good.  Body is feeling great.  Speed is up.  Should be thanking baby Jesus for giving me a bit of my youth back.  But, I am still seeing either a restriction.  Or, an old movement that I cannot seem to shake.  I just struggle to rotate my hips through impact.  My lower body doesn't feel nearly as engaged as it should be.  Almost like it's just along for the ride and reacting to the swing vs driving it.  Don't get me wrong, I can play ok this way.  But, I am not seeing the consistency I would like.  

 

I feel like I am in a good position at the top of my backswing.  Decent rotation into my right hip.  But from that point it feels like I just struggle to get my lower body to do anything I want it to.  
 

 

My hips start moving in instead of rotating.  And I feel like my head moves away from the ball to give myself room to swing.  My tendency is to get too shallow (which isn't a surprise considering my body isn't rotating).  
 

 

Culminating in an impact position where I have no forward tilt and my hips are barely rotated past square.  Right shoulder is down and if my timing is off, I can struggle with the two way miss (block right or hook out of play).  
 

 

 

I have tried feels that maintain that forward tilt.  But, it always makes me feel super off balanced.  Again, like my lower body isn't engaging or something.  When I tilt forward, my lower body isn't able to maintain my balance.  Also, that extra forward tilt puts a ton of pressure on my low back.  

 

I have been messing with different feels and such and no matter what I try, as soon as I step up to the ball, all of the feels and reps I have been working on just goes out the window.  It's hard to commit to an action plan without knowing that I am taking the right step.  I would rather limp around the course this way vs changing something to my detriment.  

 

Any guidance on where I should focus my efforts at this point?

Edited May 21 by radiman

[MonteScheinblum]

Need a face on, looks like you’re stuck on right side.

 

Two things obvious from this angle.  You’re too close to the  ball and you’re right tilting way too early causing your pelvis to thrust.  That shuts off rotation.  What’s your AOA?

 

Also, back won’t stay healthy swinging 120 and doing this.

Edited May 21 by MonteScheinblum

[radiman]

9 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Need a face on, looks like you’re stuck on right side.

 

Two things obvious from this angle.  You’re too close to the  ball and you’re right tilting way too early causing your pelvis to thrust.  That shuts off rotation.  What’s your AOA?

AoA can be egregious. As high as +7 this winter with a driver. And coming in to out at a similar number. The full swing sim at my apartment doesn’t give me reliable club data. I’ve been working on that a bit but not sure if it’s yielded much since I haven’t been able to get on a reliable LM in a while. I can say I don’t look to be right timing as much now as I was then. But without actually data it’s hard to say. 
 

I’ve tried moving away from the ball at address. Results weren’t great. Felt even more off balanced. But I suppose if I’m right tilting as early as I am, ball position alone won’t change much. 
 

Actually something I’ve relied on when things get rough is a tip you posted years and years ago. Right elbow to my belt buckle. It seems to help tame things a little bit. 

[radiman]

49 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Need a face on, looks like you’re stuck on right side.

 

Two things obvious from this angle.  You’re too close to the  ball and you’re right tilting way too early causing your pelvis to thrust.  That shuts off rotation.  What’s your AOA?

 

Also, back won’t stay healthy swinging 120 and doing this.

Ew lol.  When you put the angles up like that it really hammers it home.  You're right on the back.  Definitely putting a lot more pressure on it.  

I will see if the simulator is open tonight to see if I can get some face on video.  Not a ton of space, but at least will show me a little more.  

[Jugs]

Hitting down on a fairway wood makes living a lot easier. 

[Cwebb]

Are you working on your hip mobility/flexibility in a stretching program, in addition to your resistance training and massage?  Really a must for maintaining a body that can try to do the things you're wanting....and it will help your lower back as well

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, radiman said:

AoA can be egregious. As high as +7 this winter with a driver. And coming in to out at a similar number. The full swing sim at my apartment doesn’t give me reliable club data. I’ve been working on that a bit but not sure if it’s yielded much since I haven’t been able to get on a reliable LM in a while. I can say I don’t look to be right timing as much now as I was then. But without actually data it’s hard to say. 
 

I’ve tried moving away from the ball at address. Results weren’t great. Felt even more off balanced. But I suppose if I’m right tilting as early as I am, ball position alone won’t change much. 
 

Actually something I’ve relied on when things get rough is a tip you posted years and years ago. Right elbow to my belt buckle. It seems to help tame things a little bit. 

That’s actually not the right feel for what’s going on here.  
 

As far as standing father away.  You need to give your body weeks and even months to adapt to a setup change . 
 

You can’t hit a small bucket and say this doesn’t work.  See Rory’s recent comment that it took him 2 months (?) to adapt to a small grip change.

 

standing that close and hitting up 7, you don’t even have a Lloyd Christmas chance of rotating more.

 

The likely prescription after seeing face won will be stand father, get left way earlier, stay in left tilt longer. 
 

Do that, don’t stray, compare this video to one you take on Christmas and you’ll be happy all around.

[Oostiesalbacore]

I have low back issues but what helps me move my hips through the swing is really stretching my hip flexors. Whenever those get tight, I can’t turn at all. A good feel for me has been trying to imagine my left butt cheek is attached to the inside of my right elbow by a string. The feel is using my left cheek to pull the elbow. 

[radiman]

4 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s actually not the right feel for what’s going on here.  
 

As far as standing father away.  You need to give your body weeks and even months to adapt to a setup change . 
 

You can’t hit a small bucket and say this doesn’t work.  See Rory’s recent comment that it took him 2 months (?) to adapt to a small grip change.

 

standing that close and hitting up 7, you don’t even have a Lloyd Christmas chance of rotating more.

 

The likely prescription after seeing face won will be stand father, get left way earlier, stay in left tilt longer. 
 

Do that, don’t stray, compare this video to one you take on Christmas and you’ll be happy all around.

Appreciate it Monte.  I should have gotten more serious about addressing this in the off season not when the weather just started getting warmer.  Thankfully, my complex has the sim.  So, I should have plenty of opportunity to grind away.  

[radiman]

9 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

Are you working on your hip mobility/flexibility in a stretching program, in addition to your resistance training and massage?  Really a must for maintaining a body that can try to do the things you're wanting....and it will help your lower back as well

I am! Well, starting too!  I found them to get pretty tight once I started trying to add some muscle.  I go to a chiro that has a pretty nice rehab/soft tissue program.  So, I have been going a couple of times a week there and am incorporating that into my daily routine.  

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

stay in left tilt longer

 

That'll be the weirdest one for you, but the most important.

[bcflyguy1]

51 minutes ago, radiman said:

I am! Well, starting too!  

 

Most low back issues are actually a manifestation of lack of hip mobility; know this from personal, painful experience. You'll be glad you put in the work to fix this.

[Mike_C]

5 minutes ago, bcflyguy1 said:

Most low back issues are actually a manifestation of lack of hip mobility; know this from personal, painful experience. You'll be glad you put in the work to fix this.

I would add tight hamstrings to the equation too....

[radiman]

Just now, Mike_C said:

I would add tight hamstrings to the equation too....

I agree 100% Those have been a work in progress for a good bit.  Thoracic spine and hips are my focus at the moment.  My GF gave me the run down on what I need addressed haha.  Dating a massage therapist has been an eye opening experience for my body mechanics. 

[MonteScheinblum]

All the physical stuff doesn’t help you improve your swing.  It helps you compensate and protects your body against poor movements.

 

 

[Nard_S]

The arms come down but the shoulders should rotate around. Right side is crashing into left wall because shoulder is going underneath sternum and not around it. 

 

The only way to do that, is to separate lead from body sooner. Shoulder/upper arm too pinned for too long, free that up (drop em), then shoulder can rotate better on it's own plane, one grounded closer spine angle. Use mirror, go to top, drop hands as far down without moving body. How  lead shoulder moves away and down is what I'm referring too.

 

One cannot stay in left tilt longer without doing this either. Hips are not the big faulty issue here, but how hips work is a big issue when rotating within plane of spine. That's a different discussion.

 

I used to swing exactly like this.

[radiman]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

All the physical stuff doesn’t help you improve your swing.  It helps you compensate and protects your body against poor movements.

 

 

That's a good point.  Hopefully it will keep me fresh so I can work on the grind.  

[AC in TX]

3 hours ago, Oostiesalbacore said:

I have low back issues but what helps me move my hips through the swing is really stretching my hip flexors. Whenever those get tight, I can’t turn at all. A good feel for me has been trying to imagine my left butt cheek is attached to the inside of my right elbow by a string. The feel is using my left cheek to pull the elbow. 

I like this - and hopefully that string does not get crossedup with the one tied with a fish hook from the bill of my cap to my nether regions ...

[Valtiel]

This is very similar to a less severe version of what @connor_g9 has been dealing with, his thread here is relevant and supports what Monte said re: stuck on the right side:



Up to the top and in transition this is all right side movement while your left side is comparatively quiet. Specifically the amount your right leg moves *before* we see any meaningful movement from the left in that third frame. When your first move down from the top is a big right side push then you're already stuck at the speeds you're talking about. The straight up posture and right side bend at impact is a compensation for this. Check out what Connor was working on in that thread along with the knowledge that the primary goal is to get of your back leg much sooner and use the front leg for rotation.

[Nard_S]

So you guys are saying if pivot shift set properly and early enough, all the planes fall into place? Interesting, never thought of that way. Does make sense.

[596]

Can't rotate the left hip back if you have no weight on it.

[radiman]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

This is very similar to a less severe version of what @connor_g9 has been dealing with, his thread here is relevant and supports what Monte said re: stuck on the right side:



Up to the top and in transition this is all right side movement while your left side is comparatively quiet. Specifically the amount your right leg moves *before* we see any meaningful movement from the left in that third frame. When your first move down from the top is a big right side push then you're already stuck at the speeds you're talking about. The straight up posture and right side bend at impact is a compensation for this. Check out what Connor was working on in that thread along with the knowledge that the primary goal is to get of your back leg much sooner and use the front leg for rotation.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing it! I’ll check it out tonight. 

[radiman]

So, the simulator was open again last night so I went to work on a few things. Recorded the session to check back on after. Trying to setup a little further away from the ball and trying drills and feels I remember to help get to my left side. 
 

Two drills seemed to be the best. One was waving the club head over the ball back and forth letting my weight shift start the change in direction each time. Back and forth 4-5 times than back a little further and through the ball. 
 

The other that seemed easier to feel was to bring my feet close together and as I make the backswing step to the left. 

 

I haven’t checked that other thread yet. But hopefully will have some time today to go through it. 
 

 

 

 

[KMeloney]

20 hours ago, radiman said:

I’ve tried moving away from the ball at address. Results weren’t great. Felt even more off balanced. But I suppose if I’m right tilting as early as I am, ball position alone won’t change much.

 

Adding to the idea that you're too close to the ball, it looks like the closeness in part CAUSES you to drop your right shoulder, extend, and get steep. Otherwise, if your right shoulder moved down and around, you'd move the path of the club head out beyond the ball and miss or heel the ball. If you've tried moving farther from the ball, but put the same moves on the ball, then yes, the results wouldn't be great.

 

I'm no instructor, but that new iron-swing video looks really good.

[radiman]

1 minute ago, KMeloney said:

If you've tried moving farther from the ball, but put the same moves on the ball, then yes, the results wouldn't be great.

 

This is exactly it.  I moved away from the ball without changing any of my mechanics or intent.  So, my hips would move even more forward and I would toe the ever living crap out of it.  But, as Monte said, it's going to take time.  And, I will keep at it.  

 

It's really hard to maintain my spine angle through impact.  I wonder if part of it is my build. Really long legs, short torso, and short arms.  Could be wrong.  But, with that build, it seems like it would be hard to maintain a lot of hinge in my hips.  Will just continue with the suggestions mentioned here and see where I can get.

[Mike_C]

14 hours ago, 596 said:

Can't rotate the left hip back if you have no weight on it.

You can't do what Monte calls the Powershift  doing this.  In effect, you have to move to the left sometime during  the backswing.   I notice that you are not lifting your left heel at all on the backswing. One drill I like is sometimes I just take practice swings or hits balls at the range, and I lift my heel going back and make a point of putting it down firmly before the top of my backswing.   However, I do have a bad habit of "pushing  off" from my left heel, not from the front of my foot.  This can cause the left hip to go back only as opposed to back and up and doesn't really use ground forces effectively.

 

When I do this in the right sequence, it literally feels like it whips my upper body around faster and effortlessly, with no urge to push off of my right side. 

[GungHoGolf]

Your setup is still too close to the ball, with hip joints behind ankles instead of above them… looks like you’re back on your heels. So hips have nowhere to go except towards ball, and you already don’t have any space there because the ball is too close.

 

Here’s you vs Adam Scott with reference lines on tush, hip joints, and front of shoulder. Look how much more room he has to rotate vs standing up and dropping the right shoulder:

 

 

Could try feeling more pressure in balls of your feet at setup, more ankle flexion (so knees get closer to the ball), and more upper body forward tilt.

 

This is easy to practice at home. Set up with your back to a wall, and your heels only 2-3” from the wall, with your cheeks just lightly touching the wall. It will likely feel massively different to you - like you can’t go more forward without losing balance. If you choke down on the club, you can work on a slow motion pivot from there, feeling right cheek firmly back into wall then sliding forward in transition, then left cheek back to meet it early in the downswing.

 

Here’s a good wall drill on proper hip movement and shift from Monte:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CseNygvrDC_/?igsh=MnN5MGlhNTJ1dmdv

Edited May 22 by GungHoGolf

[Nard_S]

3 hours ago, radiman said:

So, the simulator was open again last night so I went to work on a few things. Recorded the session to check back on after. Trying to setup a little further away from the ball and trying drills and feels I remember to help get to my left side. 
 

Two drills seemed to be the best. One was waving the club head over the ball back and forth letting my weight shift start the change in direction each time. Back and forth 4-5 times than back a little further and through the ball. 
 

The other that seemed easier to feel was to bring my feet close together and as I make the backswing step to the left. 

 

I haven’t checked that other thread yet. But hopefully will have some time today to go through it. 
 

 

 

 

I think it looks better and advice on posture is quite good but it's act I of a V act play, it's a good starting point. Good luck.

[radiman]

19 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

I think it looks better and advice on posture is quite good but it's act I of a V act play, it's a good starting point. Good luck.

Rome wasn't built in a day haha.  Plus, I am going to have to play real golf through this process.  But, definitely working on getting in a better posture yet.  

[golferdude54]

18 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

Your setup is still too close to the ball, with hip joints behind ankles instead of above them… looks like you’re back on your heels. So hips have nowhere to go except towards ball, and you already don’t have any space there because the ball is too close.

 

Here’s you vs Adam Scott with reference lines on tush, hip joints, and front of shoulder. Look how much more room he has to rotate vs standing up and dropping the right shoulder:

 

 

Could try feeling more pressure in balls of your feet at setup, more ankle flexion (so knees get closer to the ball), and more upper body forward tilt.

 

This is easy to practice at home. Set up with your back to a wall, and your heels only 2-3” from the wall, with your cheeks just lightly touching the wall. It will likely feel massively different to you - like you can’t go more forward without losing balance. If you choke down on the club, you can work on a slow motion pivot from there, feeling right cheek firmly back into wall then sliding forward in transition, then left cheek back to meet it early in the downswing.

 

Here’s a good wall drill on proper hip movement and shift from Monte:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CseNygvrDC_/?igsh=MnN5MGlhNTJ1dmdv

 

Adam Scott was actually a bit too bent over in that video example, that was taken in 2014 which wasn't his best season in ball striking statistically, his best year was 2016 especially during the WGC Cadillac.

 

A better posture example is this from Tiger in 2006. This was from his best day of his best season in strokes gained approach shots ever.