Hitting drivers off heel. Pull hook, push slices

[SangChan99]

Any tips? Main miss is off to the right and constantly hitting drivers off the heel . Ty!

[Ca3l]

Definitely not qualified to give swing advice, so take this for what it’s worth (not much), but one thing that stands out to me is how much steeper you are at impact vs at address — look at where your hands are (and your shaft angle) at address and then again at impact. Hands are much higher and further from your body (so it’s not surprising to me that you have a tendency to hit the heel it if you don’t make that kind of downturn wrist action compensation like you’ve managed to do in the linked clip).

 

Hopefully someone else chimes in here, but you might have success watching some YouTube videos about “shallowing the club” and working on that more “in-to-out” swing path.

[Valtiel]

Great swing, lots of good stuff here. The main thing that jumps out to me is whats going on with your right arm/elbow in the backswing and the downswing. It's flying quite a bit and getting stuck behind you coming down:



Going back that right elbow flies out and disconnects from the body quite a bit, which also pushes the club path across the line a la Shane Lowry or Fred Couples. Not a huge problem by itself, but it requires one of a few types of moves/compensations in transition, either a big move to get that right elbow back in front of you (Couples)



Or a big shallowing/layoff reroute to get the club back in plane early (Lowry)



Unfortunately you don't really do either of these:



You're split between the two examples above and are stuck in a bit of no-mans land as a result. You re-route the club a *bit* to get away from the across the line position you got into, but not much, which puts you more in the Couples camp, however you don't make any move to get that right arm back in front of you, if anything it actually drops straight down which is a problem:



Looking at it side by side with Tiger we can see the difference in right elbow position. Tiger is very connected here and will require fairly minimal effort to get his right elbow in front of his right hip approaching impact (one of the basic fundamental target positions). He is more connected at the top of the backswing and makes a stronger move in towards the ball with it while the hands work down. You are more DISconnected at the top and your first move down maintains that disconnection. All this means you're forced to compensate later in the downswing which leads to strike and/or face control problems.

Since you aren't innately performing the types of compensations for your top of the backswing position, I think we can consider said position to be a flaw that needs to be corrected. Judging by the rest of your swing you're a pretty good player, so i'd recommend getting in front of a mirror or anything you can see your reflection in while making a swing. Position that to your right (from address position) so you can look back and see your backswing. Get up to the top with your elbow flying out like it's doing right now and stop, then feel what it feels like to bring that elbow in closer to your body, similar to Tiger above. Then mimic that internal shoulder rotation move we see Tiger doing that steepens your forearm angle (more vertical) and brings your elbow more in front of your body. Understanding these moves and what you need to feel to make them happen is then something you can take into fuller swings on the range. Rehearsing them in front of the mirror is good too if you have the space. 

Here is a reference for internal vs. external shoulder rotation:
 

 

[SangChan99]

23 hours ago, Ca3l said:

Definitely not qualified to give swing advice, so take this for what it’s worth (not much), but one thing that stands out to me is how much steeper you are at impact vs at address — look at where your hands are (and your shaft angle) at address and then again at impact. Hands are much higher and further from your body (so it’s not surprising to me that you have a tendency to hit the heel it if you don’t make that kind of downturn wrist action compensation like you’ve managed to do in the linked clip).

 

Hopefully someone else chimes in here, but you might have success watching some YouTube videos about “shallowing the club” and working on that more “in-to-out” swing path.

Awesome thank you appreciate the feedback!

[SangChan99]

17 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Great swing, lots of good stuff here. The main thing that jumps out to me is whats going on with your right arm/elbow in the backswing and the downswing. It's flying quite a bit and getting stuck behind you coming down:



Going back that right elbow flies out and disconnects from the body quite a bit, which also pushes the club path across the line a la Shane Lowry or Fred Couples. Not a huge problem by itself, but it requires one of a few types of moves/compensations in transition, either a big move to get that right elbow back in front of you (Couples)



Or a big shallowing/layoff reroute to get the club back in plane early (Lowry)



Unfortunately you don't really do either of these:



You're split between the two examples above and are stuck in a bit of no-mans land as a result. You re-route the club a *bit* to get away from the across the line position you got into, but not much, which puts you more in the Couples camp, however you don't make any move to get that right arm back in front of you, if anything it actually drops straight down which is a problem:



Looking at it side by side with Tiger we can see the difference in right elbow position. Tiger is very connected here and will require fairly minimal effort to get his right elbow in front of his right hip approaching impact (one of the basic fundamental target positions). He is more connected at the top of the backswing and makes a stronger move in towards the ball with it while the hands work down. You are more DISconnected at the top and your first move down maintains that disconnection. All this means you're forced to compensate later in the downswing which leads to strike and/or face control problems.

Since you aren't innately performing the types of compensations for your top of the backswing position, I think we can consider said position to be a flaw that needs to be corrected. Judging by the rest of your swing you're a pretty good player, so i'd recommend getting in front of a mirror or anything you can see your reflection in while making a swing. Position that to your right (from address position) so you can look back and see your backswing. Get up to the top with your elbow flying out like it's doing right now and stop, then feel what it feels like to bring that elbow in closer to your body, similar to Tiger above. Then mimic that internal shoulder rotation move we see Tiger doing that steepens your forearm angle (more vertical) and brings your elbow more in front of your body. Understanding these moves and what you need to feel to make them happen is then something you can take into fuller swings on the range. Rehearsing them in front of the mirror is good too if you have the space. 

Here is a reference for internal vs. external shoulder rotation:
 

 

Awesome, thanks for the ideas and advice. Will try this out!!!

[SangChan99]

On 9/17/2022 at 7:50 PM, Valtiel said:

Great swing, lots of good stuff here. The main thing that jumps out to me is whats going on with your right arm/elbow in the backswing and the downswing. It's flying quite a bit and getting stuck behind you coming down:



Going back that right elbow flies out and disconnects from the body quite a bit, which also pushes the club path across the line a la Shane Lowry or Fred Couples. Not a huge problem by itself, but it requires one of a few types of moves/compensations in transition, either a big move to get that right elbow back in front of you (Couples)



Or a big shallowing/layoff reroute to get the club back in plane early (Lowry)



Unfortunately you don't really do either of these:



You're split between the two examples above and are stuck in a bit of no-mans land as a result. You re-route the club a *bit* to get away from the across the line position you got into, but not much, which puts you more in the Couples camp, however you don't make any move to get that right arm back in front of you, if anything it actually drops straight down which is a problem:



Looking at it side by side with Tiger we can see the difference in right elbow position. Tiger is very connected here and will require fairly minimal effort to get his right elbow in front of his right hip approaching impact (one of the basic fundamental target positions). He is more connected at the top of the backswing and makes a stronger move in towards the ball with it while the hands work down. You are more DISconnected at the top and your first move down maintains that disconnection. All this means you're forced to compensate later in the downswing which leads to strike and/or face control problems.

Since you aren't innately performing the types of compensations for your top of the backswing position, I think we can consider said position to be a flaw that needs to be corrected. Judging by the rest of your swing you're a pretty good player, so i'd recommend getting in front of a mirror or anything you can see your reflection in while making a swing. Position that to your right (from address position) so you can look back and see your backswing. Get up to the top with your elbow flying out like it's doing right now and stop, then feel what it feels like to bring that elbow in closer to your body, similar to Tiger above. Then mimic that internal shoulder rotation move we see Tiger doing that steepens your forearm angle (more vertical) and brings your elbow more in front of your body. Understanding these moves and what you need to feel to make them happen is then something you can take into fuller swings on the range. Rehearsing them in front of the mirror is good too if you have the space. 

Here is a reference for internal vs. external shoulder rotation:
 

 

wanted to give you an update. Went to the range and had the feeling of getting more across the line, but as a reaction I felt like I was able to shallow out way easier during transition with the position I have at the top, idk maybe a more unconventional route but it feels awesome!!

[SangChan99]

On 9/17/2022 at 7:50 PM, Valtiel said:

Great swing, lots of good stuff here. The main thing that jumps out to me is whats going on with your right arm/elbow in the backswing and the downswing. It's flying quite a bit and getting stuck behind you coming down:



Going back that right elbow flies out and disconnects from the body quite a bit, which also pushes the club path across the line a la Shane Lowry or Fred Couples. Not a huge problem by itself, but it requires one of a few types of moves/compensations in transition, either a big move to get that right elbow back in front of you (Couples)



Or a big shallowing/layoff reroute to get the club back in plane early (Lowry)



Unfortunately you don't really do either of these:



You're split between the two examples above and are stuck in a bit of no-mans land as a result. You re-route the club a *bit* to get away from the across the line position you got into, but not much, which puts you more in the Couples camp, however you don't make any move to get that right arm back in front of you, if anything it actually drops straight down which is a problem:



Looking at it side by side with Tiger we can see the difference in right elbow position. Tiger is very connected here and will require fairly minimal effort to get his right elbow in front of his right hip approaching impact (one of the basic fundamental target positions). He is more connected at the top of the backswing and makes a stronger move in towards the ball with it while the hands work down. You are more DISconnected at the top and your first move down maintains that disconnection. All this means you're forced to compensate later in the downswing which leads to strike and/or face control problems.

Since you aren't innately performing the types of compensations for your top of the backswing position, I think we can consider said position to be a flaw that needs to be corrected. Judging by the rest of your swing you're a pretty good player, so i'd recommend getting in front of a mirror or anything you can see your reflection in while making a swing. Position that to your right (from address position) so you can look back and see your backswing. Get up to the top with your elbow flying out like it's doing right now and stop, then feel what it feels like to bring that elbow in closer to your body, similar to Tiger above. Then mimic that internal shoulder rotation move we see Tiger doing that steepens your forearm angle (more vertical) and brings your elbow more in front of your body. Understanding these moves and what you need to feel to make them happen is then something you can take into fuller swings on the range. Rehearsing them in front of the mirror is good too if you have the space. 

Here is a reference for internal vs. external shoulder rotation:
 

 

 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, SangChan99 said:

wanted to give you an update. Went to the range and had the feeling of getting more across the line, but as a reaction I felt like I was able to shallow out way easier during transition with the position I have at the top, idk maybe a more unconventional route but it feels awesome!!

Interesting, there is definitely something to be said for slightly overdoing one thing to act as a cue to get you to compensate in an equal and opposite way *towards* what you should be doing. Tiger talked about sometimes closing the face slightly when hitting a cut to really drive home the need to deliver the face slightly open. If this feels good then i'd go with it for now, but just be warned that this could be a bandaid with only temporary effect:



The first video and the follow up are basically interchangeable in terms of positions in the downswing, but you shallowing a little more aggressively in response to being more across the line so that is probably helping a bit. I'd still like to see what would happen if you accomplished the same (or more) shallowing by really pulling the right elbow in during transition, like the Couples gif in my first post, just to see what happens and how that feels.

[SangChan99]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:03 AM, Valtiel said:

Interesting, there is definitely something to be said for slightly overdoing one thing to act as a cue to get you to compensate in an equal and opposite way *towards* what you should be doing. Tiger talked about sometimes closing the face slightly when hitting a cut to really drive home the need to deliver the face slightly open. If this feels good then i'd go with it for now, but just be warned that this could be a bandaid with only temporary effect:



The first video and the follow up are basically interchangeable in terms of positions in the downswing, but you shallowing a little more aggressively in response to being more across the line so that is probably helping a bit. I'd still like to see what would happen if you accomplished the same (or more) shallowing by really pulling the right elbow in during transition, like the Couples gif in my first post, just to see what happens and how that feels.

Thank you so much for this. Going to try it again and really ingrain getting the elbow in as the first move down. Will keep you updated!!!

[SangChan99]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:03 AM, Valtiel said:

Interesting, there is definitely something to be said for slightly overdoing one thing to act as a cue to get you to compensate in an equal and opposite way *towards* what you should be doing. Tiger talked about sometimes closing the face slightly when hitting a cut to really drive home the need to deliver the face slightly open. If this feels good then i'd go with it for now, but just be warned that this could be a bandaid with only temporary effect:



The first video and the follow up are basically interchangeable in terms of positions in the downswing, but you shallowing a little more aggressively in response to being more across the line so that is probably helping a bit. I'd still like to see what would happen if you accomplished the same (or more) shallowing by really pulling the right elbow in during transition, like the Couples gif in my first post, just to see what happens and how that feels.

Attempted to just keep the trail arm more connected today in the backswing. Might be a work in progress to get everything in sync coming down. Thanks!!