SAM Puttlab Analysis and Recommendations

[elderado953]

Hi all,

 

I recently went through a club fitting for the first time, and had some really interesting results on SAM Puttlab (Attached). I am self taught, play to a 2, have never had my swing analyzed before, and have used the same Newport 2 my entire golfing career. My assessment is that my putting is worse than average for a 2 handicap: lag putting is OK but misses on short putts are almost always right.

 

The SAM analysis (attached) shows that I am extremely SBST with very little face rotation. My fitter explained that a face balanced mallet would be in theory recommended for my stroke type, but suggested that I aimed it and stroked it pretty well with my Newport 2 and there was no need to change. We tried a handful of face balanced and slight toe hang putters with different head shapes. I didn’t like the aesthetic of the mallets (LAB Mezz, Toulon Daytona, EVNroll ER11, etc) but some of the low toe hang double wide/square type blades (Toulon Chicago, Bettinardi Queen B 15) were appealing to me. I also tried an old Ping Karsten TR Anser 5 (face balanced blade) and the aesthetic of the long plumbers neck really threw me off.
 

Curious if any of my golf sickos on WRX can explain how I would benefit from switching to a specific type of putter? For example, is my stroke path and rotation a perfect fit to try a face balanced mallet? Or am I overthinking this and should just rely on what feels and looks good? Thanks!

 

Sam Puttlab Results.pdf

[BogeyTime13]

So the common thought is that missing right means you have too much toe hang (extra weight in the toe to keep it open for people that have an arc). So a face balanced (or more face balanced) putter will have less weight in the toe and not leave the club face open, hence correcting the right miss.

[Jeff58]

Your swing has a very low closure rate. The face angle starts slightly open and stays that way. From a fitting perspective, you’re very easy. You just have a bit too much toe weight / toe hang.

 

I’m almost the same as you, but I tend to compensate when using a high toe hang model, particularly one with a thinner grip. For me the solution has not been a face balanced model, rather a slight toe hang one. To me, a completely face balanced model looses the feel of angle, if that makes sense.

 

One thing that SAM lab promotes that makes little sense, at least to me, is that better players tend to use thinner grips. A better outlook IMO is that models that expect a significant degree of face rotation are often better off with thin grips, which promotes or allows that to happen. More face-balanced models normally may work well with thicker grips, as rotation isn’t a positive attribute here.

 

Near-face balanced models are currently very popular. A classic of the type is the Spider X flow neck.

[elderado953]

Awesome information, thanks for the feedback guys! It makes a lot of sense that the extra weight in the toe is encouraging the blade to stay slightly open.

 

Much like Jeff58, the fully face balanced putter feels strange to me - similar to swinging a full club with really low swing weight. I feel like I don’t know where the head is facing. The Betti Queen B 15 and Toulon Chicago that I tried both seemed to have maybe 15-30 degrees of toe hang and felt very nice. I’ll explore in the slight toe hang range.

 

I also use a thin grip (Ping PP58) and have my entire life. Interesting to hear that you enjoy a thicker grip for putters with less toe hang. To me the thicker grips feel like I lose all feel and distance control. Like everything, it is probably just something that will take some time and practice to get used to. Also the trade off of a couple fewer tap in two putts in exchange for making more inside 10 feet is something I would sign up for!

[Pym]

I have the same feeling with face balanced and also have a straight stroke.  If I can’t feel where the toe is it’s sort of like having a club with almost zero swing weight and it also makes speed control very difficult. The face balanced Odyssey 5k Rossie is one putter where I didn’t have that issue. Maybe it’s because the weight is still towards the front of the putter and extreme on each end of the head, idk, but with that putter I could feel the head really well. 
 

Puttlab also has “square” putter shape in its options in addition to “blade” and “mallet”. What exactly does it mean by square? 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Pym
Pressed save too soon accidentally

[EKB]

I too did a fitting and it was suggested a face-balanced putter fit best with my stroke, though my miss tends to be left (I'm RH).  That said, I'm not sure my set up and having the right lie and loft aren't more important for me than the toe hang as I've had my best putting days with either a SC Circa or NP2 

[elderado953]

1 hour ago, Pym said:

I have the same feeling with face balanced and also have a straight stroke.  If I can’t feel where the toe is it’s sort of like having a club with almost zero swing weight and it also makes speed control very difficult. The face balanced Odyssey 5k Rossie is one putter where I didn’t have that issue. Maybe it’s because the weight is still towards the front of the putter and extreme on each end of the head, idk, but with that putter I could feel the head really well. 
 

Puttlab also has “square” putter shape in its options in addition to “blade” and “mallet”. What exactly does it mean by square? 

I assumed “square” was referring to a thicker blade or a more angular mallet - something like a doublewide or squareback. Maybe it was confirmation bias from Puttlab recommending that putter head or the fact that I have always used a traditional blade, but of the dozen or so putters I tried the 2 wide blade models were my favorite. 

[elderado953]

46 minutes ago, EKB said:

I too did a fitting and it was suggested a face-balanced putter fit best with my stroke, though my miss tends to be left (I'm RH).  That said, I'm not sure my set up and having the right lie and loft aren't more important for me than the toe hang as I've had my best putting days with either a SC Circa or NP2 

Yep, putting is wicked personal and I’ve always known it boils down to 1) confidence and 2) repeatable stroke. Figured since I had never tried anything other than my Newport 2 it would be worth getting some data and trying to optimize 2), which in turn could build 1). 🙂

[EKB]

I once played with a guy (about your same HC) who said, "I've dated a lot of putters but never married one"

[elderado953]

3 hours ago, EKB said:

I once played with a guy (about your same HC) who said, "I've dated a lot of putters but never married one"

I married the first one I ever met. Raised a houseful of beautiful birdies and even a couple trophies. Now a mid-life crisis has me speed dating replacements based on degrees of toe hang 😂

[5hort5tuff]

I cant understand why you would struggle with a Long Neck blade.  It's the same to look down on, but it has the toe hang you need. 

 

I generally use a putter with very minimal toe hang, call it 20 or 25* toe hang, but if you bit a FB Mallet in my hands, it feels horrible. 

[mstuewe]

Is it possible you are a good putter and don’t know it?  What’s your strokes gained putting relative to tour?  Maybe your putting is fine.

Edited March 29, 2023 by mstuewe

[mjo23]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:25 AM, elderado953 said:

Curious if any of my golf sickos on WRX can explain how I would benefit from switching to a specific type of putter? For example, is my stroke path and rotation a perfect fit to try a face balanced mallet? Or am I overthinking this and should just rely on what feels and looks good? Thanks!

Don’t take SAM’s suggestions too seriously. Your stroke looks quite good, go for what feels/looks good to you. The idea that SBST strokes are only suitable for face-balanced putters is false (same with the idea that arcing strokes are only suitable for toe-hang putters)

 

And I’m not saying that you shouldn’t go face-balanced or near face-balanced; just don’t take SAM’s suggestions as gospel. I’ve had 2 SAM fittings, and I received 2 different suggestions

Edited March 30, 2023 by mjo23

[elderado953]

17 hours ago, 5hort5tuff said:

I cant understand why you would struggle with a Long Neck blade.  It's the same to look down on, but it has the toe hang you need. 

 

I generally use a putter with very minimal toe hang, call it 20 or 25* toe hang, but if you bit a FB Mallet in my hands, it feels horrible. 

Yep, I was thinking the same thing that I would get along well with the same shape and hosel. Looking down at it just felt like the head was really far away due to the long neck, which I know isn’t the case as it was 35” just like my gamer. Also it felt like I couldn’t feel the face, which is probably due to a face balanced putter feeling foreign - I’d never felt a putter without toe hang before.

[elderado953]

16 hours ago, mstuewe said:

Is it possible you are a good putter and don’t know it?  What’s your strokes gained putting relative to tour?  Maybe your putting is fine.

Could be! I’m not really 100% sure as the stats I keep are pretty rudimentary. But I’m hitting 77% of greens and averaging 34.5 putts. I’m not sure of my proximity or other data that could influence the putting #s, just a feeling that I want to make more putts inside 10 feet and searching for a way to do it!

[elderado953]

14 hours ago, mjo23 said:

Don’t take SAM’s suggestions too seriously. Your stroke looks quite good, go for what feels/looks good to you. The idea that SBST strokes are only suitable for face-balanced putters is false (same with the idea that arcing strokes are only suitable for toe-hang putters)

 

And I’m not saying that you shouldn’t go face-balanced or near face-balanced; just don’t take SAM’s suggestions as gospel. I’ve had 2 SAM fittings, and I received 2 different suggestions

Yep, I hear you barking on that. I’m in the mood to experiment and just wanted to gather some info and target specific types of putters to try rather than just grabbing random sticks off the shelf to try.

[mjo23]

1 hour ago, elderado953 said:

Yep, I hear you barking on that. I’m in the mood to experiment and just wanted to gather some info and target specific types of putters to try rather than just grabbing random sticks off the shelf to try.

Yeah, and don’t get me wrong, SAM is phenomenal tech and a very valuable tool. I’m just referring to the baseline suggestion when I say it shouldn’t be taken too seriously, it’s definitely an amazing tool to analyze your stroke and compare stroke/roll characteristics against other putter models

[mstuewe]

7 hours ago, elderado953 said:

Could be! I’m not really 100% sure as the stats I keep are pretty rudimentary. But I’m hitting 77% of greens and averaging 34.5 putts. I’m not sure of my proximity or other data that could influence the putting #s, just a feeling that I want to make more putts inside 10 feet and searching for a way to do it!

 

77% of greens would put you #1 on the pga tour.

 

34.5 putts per round is 1.9 per hole, which isn’t great but considering how many greens you hit, your proximity is probably very large.  

 

I think you should start with better stats.  Get strokes gained but also identify if you are consistently long, short, left, right in your misses.  You might need speed control or better alignment rather than a new putter.

[Unteachable]

8 hours ago, elderado953 said:

Yep, I hear you barking on that. I’m in the mood to experiment and just wanted to gather some info and target specific types of putters to try rather than just grabbing random sticks off the shelf to try.

i had similar SAM recommendations as you and it took me 6 putters over 8-9 months to find one i liked.  I ended up with a phantom x 5 which has a single bend shaft and probably 15 degrees toe hang.  It took all the other experiments to figure out i needed a sightline on top, something on the firmer side (hated anything deep milled or with inserts), and then the right weight and grip.

 

I really love the look of double wide blades but could not find one that felt good to me. 

 

stick with it and dont stop until you find something that you can aim right, feels good and results in lower # of putts.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Unteachable

[elderado953]

3 hours ago, Unteachable said:

i had similar SAM recommendations as you and it took me 6 putters over 8-9 months to find one i liked.  I ended up with a phantom x 5 which has a single bend shaft and probably 15 degrees toe hang.  It took all the other experiments to figure out i needed a sightline on top, something on the firmer side (hated anything deep milled or with inserts), and then the right weight and grip.

 

I really love the look of double wide blades but could not find one that felt good to me. 

 

stick with it and dont stop until you find something that you can aim right, feels good and results in lower # of putts.

Awesome, thanks for the words of wisdom! Interesting that you say that, I love the look of the double wide blades too. I got my hands on a Sub70 wide blade that has no alignment lines and looks awesome. The double bend just looks unattractive to me. I’m exploring getting a long plumbers neck conversion in it.

 

I also like the wingback/fang/#7 style. Tried the Phantom X 5 and actually liked it a lot as well. I’m also looking for an used Odyssey #7 CH like the one Xander uses. Exciting times on the greens!

Edited March 31, 2023 by elderado953

[elderado953]

2 hours ago, mstuewe said:

 

77% of greens would put you #1 on the pga tour.

 

34.5 putts per round is 1.9 per hole, which isn’t great but considering how many greens you hit, your proximity is probably very large.  

 

I think you should start with better stats.  Get strokes gained but also identify if you are consistently long, short, left, right in your misses.  You might need speed control or better alignment rather than a new putter.

Scheffy boy better keep his eyes on the rear view mirror then, I’m a GIR machine! To be fair 90% of my rounds are early morning nines at the local 6300 yard track where I can just let the driver loose. 
 

I do track my misses as well off the tee and on approach. The main point of the Puttlab fitting was just trying to see if I could better optimize my equipment. Similar to how an iron fitting shows us the loft/lie/flex/etc we need.