very high handicapper here, what do i need to change in my swing to improve? gotten ALOT worse

[hacker113]

Quick backstory, started taking the game seriously a little over 2 years ago. Got a package of lessons as a beginner and improved very quickly initially. shot my best score of 92 only 2 months after lessons and shot in the 90's a few more times after that. I was very reliable with the driver  hit my irons fairly straight, and solid around the greens, if i could putt at this time i easily wouldve broke 85. But I remember having to taking a couple weeks off in the fall of 21 and got the chipping yips and driver yips and still havent recovered from them. I had a nasty duck hook with the driver and woods for almost a year until i thought i "figured something out" and ended up with a nasty push slice. Now I have a HUGE two way miss with driver and with irons I either hit a few inches behind it or hit a huge block 20+ yards right even with a wedge and sometimes pulls. I havent broken a hundred in almost 2 years and currently usually shoot 115-120 (and thats being pretty generous).

 

Really looking for some feedback since I cant get lessons currently

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by hacker113

[slytown]

The swing looks pretty damn good. Only thing is that you have a lot of face rotation at the bottom. Could you post a face on video of better quality? We need to see your lateral movement.

 

My advice is to work on squaring the face with your body rotation, not your wrists. You can achieve this by working on unfolding the arms as a release, but not turning the hands over as much. Your wrists will natural do good things from a good path and sequence. You don't need to twist or turn them.

[hacker113]

41 minutes ago, slytown said:

The swing looks pretty damn good. Only thing is that you have a lot of face rotation at the bottom. Could you post a face on video of better quality? We need to see your lateral movement.

 

My advice is to work on squaring the face with your body rotation, not your wrists. You can achieve this by working on unfolding the arms as a release, but not turning the hands over as much. Your wrists will natural do good things from a good path and sequence. You don't need to twist or turn them.

Yeah i noticed that too, makes sense with my severe two way miss. Btw do I have any EE?

[slytown]

28 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

Yeah i noticed that too, makes sense with my severe two way miss. Btw do I have any EE?

 

No, you don't. You butt stays back and your head stays down through impact. You just manipulate the face a little too much with your wrists. You could do the back to target, arms release drill. Remember, you don't need to drop the right shoulder to shallow the club. The club will naturally shallow from a good path and sequence. This drill will help with that. Don't listen to Chris talk about over the top or EE. You don't do that. I just think the drill will help you release the club without turning the wrists.

 

P.S. I find it hard to believe you don't break 100 with that swing.

 

 

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Hate to say this, but rather than asking internet forums, you might be better off taking a few lessons with a teaching pro.

[jholz]

 

This don't look quite right.

 

 

Leading to this.

 

Hopefully others will offer more.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

Hate to say this, but rather than asking internet forums, you might be better off taking a few lessons with a teaching pro.

Concur.  Lots of speed.  Left hip is turning to ball in backswing, which isn't great.  You get back on your left side very quickly, which is good.

 

I don't think you're very far away, frankly.  As hard as that may be to believe.  You likely will get worse for a bit after you implement whatever changes your instructor gives you, so be mentally prepared for that.  

 

I get the "nobody lives near me," lament.  Have you tried video lessons?  Also, the gurus here would probably also like working with a face on video too.

[Ironzol24]

1 hour ago, jholz said:

 

This don't look quite right.

 

 

Leading to this.

 

Hopefully others will offer more.

Honestly just looks like a somewhat inside takeaway with late wrist hinge and then in order to square the face there is a little bit of stalling and the hands passing through the ball. Maybe watch some slow-mo videos of Xander Schauffele and see if you can learn to let your hands and arms work more vertically in the backswing and then being a little bit shallower to the ball so you can turn through it! 

 

I definitely agree that you are closer than the 2 way miss and awful shots would have you inclined to thinking 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Ironzol24

[hacker113]

8 hours ago, Ironzol24 said:

Honestly just looks like a somewhat inside takeaway with late wrist hinge and then in order to square the face there is a little bit of stalling and the hands passing through the ball. Maybe watch some slow-mo videos of Xander Schauffele and see if you can learn to let your hands and arms work more vertically in the backswing and then being a little bit shallower to the ball so you can turn through it! 

 

I definitely agree that you are closer than the 2 way miss and awful shots would have you inclined to thinking 

Hmm thats interesting. I stall and flip but dont early extend, I thought those 2 were mutually exclusive no?

Edited May 18, 2023 by hacker113

[Valtiel]

11 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

Hmm thats interesting. I stall and flip but dont early extend, I thought those 2 were mutually exclusive no?

No, improper sequencing is usually the culprit which is usually but not always paired with early extension. In your case it looks like your extremely flat backswing and equally late wrist hinge gets your right side (shoulder/elbow) stuck behind you:



It isn't until all the way at the top of the backswing that you actually set your right wrist at all, and you're generally swinging far more around your body like a baseball swing. Notice the difference in relationship between the right shoulder, elbow, and forearm. Tiger's arms are working far more "up" like virtually all pros where your are working around and back. Your right forearm if still almost parallel to the ground at P3 whereas Tiger's is far more vertical. Swinging flat/around like this encourages way too much external right shoulder rotation which puts you in a "stuck" position at the top, along with requiring a pretty significant reroute to get the club working down correctly from the top. All of this takes time, time you don't have if you fire your hips "correctly" which then leads to your arms getting stuck behind you. A face on view would likely show this more clearly, but either way you'll want to work on getting the club and your arms working much more vertical with correct timing on your wrist set. The below video is a helpful start, particularly the section from 9:30 onwards:
 

 

[hacker113]

35 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

No, improper sequencing is usually the culprit which is usually but not always paired with early extension. In your case it looks like your extremely flat backswing and equally late wrist hinge gets your right side (shoulder/elbow) stuck behind you:



It isn't until all the way at the top of the backswing that you actually set your right wrist at all, and you're generally swinging far more around your body like a baseball swing. Notice the difference in relationship between the right shoulder, elbow, and forearm. Tiger's arms are working far more "up" like virtually all pros where your are working around and back. Your right forearm if still almost parallel to the ground at P3 whereas Tiger's is far more vertical. Swinging flat/around like this encourages way too much external right shoulder rotation which puts you in a "stuck" position at the top, along with requiring a pretty significant reroute to get the club working down correctly from the top. All of this takes time, time you don't have if you fire your hips "correctly" which then leads to your arms getting stuck behind you. A face on view would likely show this more clearly, but either way you'll want to work on getting the club and your arms working much more vertical with correct timing on your wrist set. The below video is a helpful start, particularly the section from 9:30 onwards:
 

 

Wow, now I really see my left hip working toward the ball like someone here mentioned earlier. Are there any positives in my swing I shouldn't change or would you completely remodel it?

 

 

and yes I was a former baseball player as you can tell

Edited May 18, 2023 by hacker113

[Valtiel]

27 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

Wow, now I really see my left hip working toward the ball like someone here mentioned earlier. Are there any positives in my swing I shouldn't change or would you completely remodel it?

 

 

and yes I was a former baseball player as you can tell

That little shift towards the ball that you see in those gifs is actually quite slight and you do a really good job of rotating/pivoting to create the types of forces you want, so a lot of the lower body stuff is solid. Your setup could use a tweak I think:



You appear to be leaning back with your butt stuck out a little too far. If you were on a pressure mat we'd probably see you favoring your heels here when you should be more 50/50 or 60/40 favoring the balls of your feet slightly. A slight shift towards the ball during the backswing es expected as your brain will try to balance this out.

[hacker113]

22 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

That little shift towards the ball that you see in those gifs is actually quite slight and you do a really good job of rotating/pivoting to create the types of forces you want, so a lot of the lower body stuff is solid. Your setup could use a tweak I think:



You appear to be leaning back with your butt stuck out a little too far. If you were on a pressure mat we'd probably see you favoring your heels here when you should be more 50/50 or 60/40 favoring the balls of your feet slightly. A slight shift towards the ball during the backswing es expected as your brain will try to balance this out.

Makes sense, when I was playing even worse than I was now at the end of last year my weight was more toward my toes and my left hip didn't work out. As a result, my whole body lifted a noticeable amount during the backswing and my shaft was steep coming down and I had a TON of EE. Maybe I do this because of a lack of mobility in my hips? 

This was when my swing was absolute dog**** as you can tell, I was heeling/hoseling every club and had to take a break for a couple months 

Edited May 18, 2023 by hacker113

[Valtiel]

26 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

Makes sense, when I was playing even worse than I was now at the end of last year my weight was more toward my toes and my left hip didn't work out. As a result, my whole body lifted a noticeable amount during the backswing and my shaft was steep coming down and I had a TON of EE. Maybe I do this because of a lack of mobility in my hips? 

 

This was when my swing was absolute dog**** as you can tell, I was heeling/hoseling every club and had to take a break for a couple months 

Yeah I can see why, but it's definitely not a mobility issue based on how you're moving now (which is better).



You were trying to clear your left side without any shift into it at all, like a pitcher trying to throw off his back foot. You have to actually shift your pressure into your lead side in order to produce the correct "hip back" rotation movement, otherwise this move is about as far as you move your lead hip before the trail hip takes over:



Which swings you out towards the ball and throws your path out. I made a post about this recently as it's a concept that is both talked about a ton but very poorly understood. The cliff notes being that you need pressure on the hip you want to move, and that when you're supposed to stop your shift back in the backswing and shift back towards your lead leg is rarely done correctly or in time.

[hacker113]

23 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Yeah I can see why, but it's definitely not a mobility issue based on how you're moving now (which is better).



You were trying to clear your left side without any shift into it at all, like a pitcher trying to throw off his back foot. You have to actually shift your pressure into your lead side in order to produce the correct "hip back" rotation movement, otherwise this move is about as far as you move your lead hip before the trail hip takes over:



Which swings you out towards the ball and throws your path out. I made a post about this recently as it's a concept that is both talked about a ton but very poorly understood. The cliff notes being that you need pressure on the hip you want to move, and that when you're supposed to stop your shift back in the backswing and shift back towards your lead leg is rarely done correctly or in time.

Unfortunately I don't have any videos of my swing  when I was playing my best shooting in the low-mid 90s, all I remember was my backswing was shorter

[slytown]

10 hours ago, Valtiel said:

That little shift towards the ball that you see in those gifs is actually quite slight and you do a really good job of rotating/pivoting to create the types of forces you want, so a lot of the lower body stuff is solid. Your setup could use a tweak I think:



You appear to be leaning back with your butt stuck out a little too far. If you were on a pressure mat we'd probably see you favoring your heels here when you should be more 50/50 or 60/40 favoring the balls of your feet slightly. A slight shift towards the ball during the backswing es expected as your brain will try to balance this out.

I concur. You have a swing similar to a lot of LPGA players. They get very flat and deep because they are short, so they have difficulty working the club down. This forces the club steep in teansition and a hip stall, but not always EE. You can have deep hips and no EE and still be using your wrists and forearms to rotate the face. Its sometimes called a classic release because a lot of veterans like Seve were less athletic and used their hands a lot. The equipment back then also facilitated this type of handsy release. This move creates more speed but its hard to control.

 

Again, work on getting the hands down sooner, with back to target, and then turning through. You basically need tk release the club earlier so the face is more square at P6. And again, u have a good swing already. You really improved. You can just make it more consistent with a proper early release and late turn.