Bird netting relief

[syenkoc]

Delete

Edited October 11, 2023 by syenkoc

[Mr. Bean]

A bird net is an immovable obstruction . Thus you get a free relief if that net interferes with your stance, the area of you intended swing or the actual stroke at your ball.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Mr. Bean

[davep043]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

A bird net is an immovable obstruction . Thus you get a free relief if that net interferes with your stance, the area of you intended swing or the actual stroke at your ball.

I agree that this is the most likely scenario, but it seems possible that the netting could be moveable.  In that case, the player could remove the netting and replace the ball at its original position, without penalty.  Either way, free relief is appropriate.

[Mr. Bean]

38 minutes ago, davep043 said:

I agree that this is the most likely scenario, but it seems possible that the netting could be moveable.  In that case, the player could remove the netting and replace the ball at its original position, without penalty.  Either way, free relief is appropriate.

 

From the Rules of Golf pow that is correct but from the bird catching view it is a no no.

[dabs]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:11 AM, Mr. Bean said:

A bird net is an immovable obstruction . Thus you get a free relief if that net interferes with your stance, the area of you intended swing or the actual stroke at your ball.

 

 

 

Mr. Bean - What do you mean why area of your intended swing?

 

If the immovable obstruction is blocking your shot path to the hole, can you move your ball to the side for relief? So you have an unobstructed line towards the flag?? 

 

Or is there only relief if the object interferes with your stance and swing?

[Newby]

5 hours ago, dabs said:

Mr. Bean - What do you mean why area of your intended swing?

 

If the immovable obstruction is blocking your shot path to the hole, can you move your ball to the side for relief? So you have an unobstructed line towards the flag?? 

 

Or is there only relief if the object interferes with your stance and swing?

16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)

Interference exists when any one of these is true:

The player’s ball touches or is in or on an immovable obstruction

 

An immovable obstruction physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing,

Your intended swing is the path your club would take when you swing to hit the ball. Not practice swings

 

 

No. Only when the ball is on the putting green, an immovable obstruction on or off the putting green intervenes on the line of play.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Newby

[betarhoalphadelta]

Is the question of a movable vs immovable obstruction one of physics, or one of course intent? 

 

I.e. the bird netting is probably physically movable, and quite with ease. But assuming the grounds crew doesn't want people messing with the netting they've placed, would that make a physically movable obstruction immovable because doing so would disrupt the grounds crew's work? 

 

(Obv this should have been handled by marking it GUR if the grounds crew doesn't want anyone playing from the area, but it seems they didn't do that.)

 

[davep043]

31 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

I.e. the bird netting is probably physically movable, and quite with ease. But assuming the grounds crew doesn't want people messing with the netting they've placed, would that make a physically movable obstruction immovable because doing so would disrupt the grounds crew's work?

The Committee may define the netting as Immoveable, but unless that is done, the distinction between Moveable and Immoveable is based on whether it "can be moved with reasonable effort and without damaging the obstruction or the course"  That's the criteria in the Definitions.

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 minute ago, davep043 said:

The Committee may define the netting as Immoveable, but unless that is done, the distinction between Moveable and Immoveable is based on whether it "can be moved with reasonable effort and without damaging the obstruction or the course"  That's the criteria in the Definitions.

Got it. So absent any communication from the course, a golfer should treat it as a movable obstruction, even if he or she believes the grounds crew wouldn't want it moved. Makes sense to not put the onus on the golfer to define that something obviously movable should be treated as immovable, potentially violating a rule. 

 

That said, I would likely do the same thing as OP if not in a formally sanctioned competition. Sounds like an oversight of the grounds crew to not mark it GUR. 

 

 

[davep043]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Got it. So absent any communication from the course, a golfer should treat it as a movable obstruction, even if he or she believes the grounds crew wouldn't want it moved. Makes sense to not put the onus on the golfer to define that something obviously movable should be treated as immovable, potentially violating a rule. 

 

That said, I would likely do the same thing as OP if not in a formally sanctioned competition. Sounds like an oversight of the grounds crew to not mark it GUR. 

In a casual round, I'd probably treat it as GUR.  In a proper competition, I'd try to get some clarification before making a decision.  That might be a quick call to the pro shop, or find a Rules Official.  I might even play two balls and get a decision later.

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

can be moved with reasonable effort and without damaging the obstruction or the course"

Wouldn’t you be damaging the course if you played off the newly seeded area?  

[davep043]

4 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Wouldn’t you be damaging the course if you played off the newly seeded area?  

That phrase relates to defining whether an Obstruction is Moveable or not, it has nothing to do with making a stroke.  Simply removing the netting probably doesn't case any new damage.  Every time you take a divot you damage the course, playing from this area isn't any different.  If the Committee/Management doesn't want you to play from there, its their job to make their intentions clear.