Side bend vs. tilt - help/advice needed

[Theaveragegolfer]

Looking for some advice on achieving side bend in my downswing. I've been working on my swing for quite a while with an online coach and there's some really good changes and my swing is looking a lot better, however, one thing that continually crops up that I haven't been able to nail is getting side bend to get down to the ball as opposed to tilt / secondary axis tilt. Whilst I know there are some small flaws in my swing (I'm quite shut at the top) and I come a bit inside with the takeaway (although not disconnected), I'm fairly confident that there's nothing majorly stopping me from achieving side bend. In terms of the secondary axis tilt I have, I have none at set-up, none at the top of my backswing and then it starts in the downswing, it's not from the hips sliding though, it's the upper body 'hanging back'.

 

For context I've tried the following drill and whilst some have helped me at least feel side bend as soon as I take this to the downswing this immediately translates to a secondary axis tilt no matter how hard I try which is incredibly very frustrating. What I can't discern from online videos is whether this hanging back is because I'm not shifting weight properly as my legs look to be doing the right motion just not the upper body.

 

- Feeling like my shirt buttons are on top of my belt buckle throughout the swing

- Keeping the gap between the shoulder and hands the same and getting the club down

- Split grip drill

- The alignment stick in the belt loops + alignment stick in shoulder drill - this helps me feel side bend but can't translate to swing

- Dragging an alignment stick along the floor - this helps me feel it but can't translate to swing

- Feeling like the left leg is bent while rotating - leads me to spinning out or bumping hips too much

 

Any advice or success stories would be greatly appreciated!

[ProV1Killa]

Without seeing your swing it is hard to offer advice.  First thing I would check is your alignment.  If your feet or shoulders are setup closed to target it is almost impossible to get the trail shoulder down without another compensation, swaying, early extension etc.   Then I would look at fundamental setup, shoulders level horizontally with irons etc.  

 

One drill that helps me if I start having an issue getting my trail side down and through is swinging on a downslope and concentrating on keeping the club head moving parallel to the slope.  If your setup and posture are correct gravity forces you down and through in balance. If you have setup flaws gravity wants to put you on your backside.

[Theaveragegolfer]

My clubhead was actually very closed at address, I've rectified that now. Do you think this would have any impact?

 

I'm pretty sure rest of set up is okay, had plenty of online lessons and whilst there's been a few flaws in set up over the course of the lessons they're rectified now. 

 

Thats an interesting feeling and it makes sense, I've seen coaches use a downhill Matt to teach before. Whenever I feel like I've kind of felt it it does feel like I'm staying down for longer in the same way you would on a downhill shot.

[getitdaily]

If your butt comes "off the wall" - moves toward the ball at all then you'll have a hard time side bending in the downswing. If your butt doesn't move toward the ball in the downswing then you can exaggerate these feelings to help...

 

1. Consciously press the chest down toward the ground as you turn

2. Exaggerate feeling your right shoulder move toward the ground between p4 and p5.

[Chunkitgood]

What is “tilt/secondary axis” tilt?  How is it different from side bend?

 

This interests me in that what can be called either side bend or shoulder tilt is exactly what most people lack in their swing, those words being used in reference to the golfer’s body.

 

I looked it up and secondary axis tilt seems to be tilt with respect to the target.

 

Curious as to what the secondary axis is and for that matter what is the primary axis.  I personally believe the golf swing involves rotation in all three planes in which the body can move (frontal, sagittal, and transverse) but when I talk about it people look at me like I am crazy.

 

Further I believe side bend or tilt in the frontal plane (part of rotation of the torso around an axis located in the upper torso) is a necessarily connected and interrelated joint action of the hips (which sway or thrust) and the shoulders (which tilt).

 

[getitdaily]

I've always understood secondary tilt to be the body tilted away from the target as the downswing gets from about p5 to impact.

[virtuoso]

Hard to know until we see a swing video. Presumably you have some vids from your online coaching?

[ShawLF]

15 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

What is “tilt/secondary axis” tilt?  How is it different from side bend?

 

Side bend is bending or curving of the thoracic spine. Tilt is tilting sideways at the waist. Both happen to some degree in the swing. In the backswing, if you only tilted (and didn't bend) your head would move to the right excessively. If you add left side bend and put your back into extension, your head will stay centered.

Edited September 5, 2023 by ShawLF

[ShawLF]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:21 AM, Theaveragegolfer said:

Looking for some advice on achieving side bend in my downswing.

First, if your instructor is differentiating bend and tilt, you've got a good one. 

 

Onto your question about drills.

 

1) you may beed to build some muscle awareness and flexibility/pliability in this area. A good exercise is to hold a club or rod across your shoulders and make a move like you're rowing a kayak in reverse. When doing this, you can tighten up your legs, glutes, and abs and hold all of that straight up without movement. You want to focus on your ribcage. When I do this I can passively force air into and out of my lungs without breathing because the ribs are expanding and contracting on either side of your thoracic spine.

 

2) one drill to help sync up rotation, bend and extension is to take a club across your shoulders with the grip end extending past your shoulder to your left. Now go into 7i posture with your head against a wall. Go into your backswing and don't allow the grip to hit the wall - you'll need to add lead side bend to do this. Then do the same on the right side, except have the grip plus a bit of the shaft extended. You want about 15 degrees more side bend on the downswing. 

 

3) the next drill incorporates the transition and keeping your butt back like @getitdaily mentioned. Set up with your heels about 8-12" from a wall, and place two alignment sticks parallel to the wall, one 3' from the wall (backswing) and another 4' from the wall (backswing). Take a rod across your shoulders (not your chest, but shoulders). A rod that is 5' long works well. Make a backswing movement where the left end of the rod points to the outside alignment stick - and while doing this get your right glute against the wall at the top. In transition, change from left to right side bend and get both your left and right glutes against the wall. In the downswing trace the right side of the rod along the inside alignment stick, and keep your left glute against the wall.

 

Some general body mechanics to think about. When you're adding hip depth, it should come from your lower abs pulling you down vs. using your hip flexors/quads to pull your thigh up. Getting to active with the hip flexors/quads will cause your knees to bend and you'll lose hip depth and deactivate the glutes which is the opposite of what you want.

 

 

 

 

[Dufferonius]

This is the drill that did it for me:

 

 

[ShawLF]

this was in my youtube feed just now as well.