Shaft Tip Prep

[Coppertop1880]

Picked up a set of Steel Fiber shafts and took the lazy way out and paid for tip prep (purchased through GolfWorks). The shafts are for a set of Ping ISI irons that do not have ferrules.

I noted the irons being used and when I recieved them, the area sanded looked a bit larger than I'm used to. Dry fitting the shafts, the sanding extends maybe half an inch above the hosel, as if they took into consideration the irons had ferrules.

 

So here's the $20 question. If I use these shafts with the ISI irons and have sanded areas exposed, will that impact the durability of the shafts? Really don't want to try to match a ferrule up with the ISI heads and I'm concerned that extending the epoxy over the sanded area will look like crap. I'd save the shafts for another set of irons, but all I have are Ping's that do not use ferrules.

 

Any words of wisdom?

[chisag]

53 minutes ago, Coppertop1880 said:

Picked up a set of Steel Fiber shafts and took the lazy way out and paid for tip prep (purchased through GolfWorks). The shafts are for a set of Ping ISI irons that do not have ferrules.

I noted the irons being used and when I recieved them, the area sanded looked a bit larger than I'm used to. Dry fitting the shafts, the sanding extends maybe half an inch above the hosel, as if they took into consideration the irons had ferrules.

 

So here's the $20 question. If I use these shafts with the ISI irons and have sanded areas exposed, will that impact the durability of the shafts? Really don't want to try to match a ferrule up with the ISI heads and I'm concerned that extending the epoxy over the sanded area will look like crap. I'd save the shafts for another set of irons, but all I have are Ping's that do not use ferrules.

 

Any words of wisdom?

 

 

... Wow, you are between a rock and a hard place. Ferrules can easily slip if the shaft isn't abraded just above the hosel on Steelfibers with clear coat so sanding gives them something to adhere to. 

... Back when I was on staff with Tommy Armour, I put ferrules on my 845's because I didn't like the look of no ferrules. Worked out well for me so that is the only option I can think of. 

Edited March 16 by chisag

[st1800e]

29 minutes ago, chisag said:

am guessing you didn't tell Golfsmith which irons you were installing them into? 

 

50 minutes ago, Coppertop1880 said:

I noted the irons being used

@Coppertop1880, I’d recommend you take it up with Golfworks.  Seems to be their error.   

[zip7111]

If you specified the iron heads, and Golfworks over-prepped them I would ask for a new set.  You spent way too much money on a set of shafts to have to settle for looking at tip prep above the hosels.

[Coppertop1880]

41 minutes ago, zip7111 said:

If you specified the iron heads, and Golfworks over-prepped them I would ask for a new set.  You spent way too much money on a set of shafts to have to settle for looking at tip prep above the hosels.

 

Yep. That's my approach. Leaving everything be until I reach out to them on Monday. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I agree with the sentiments here. They screwed up and should fix it. 

 

Shouldn't compromise on trying to fit a ferrule or live with raw shaft peaking out from the hosel.

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, Coppertop1880 said:

Picked up a set of Steel Fiber shafts and took the lazy way out and paid for tip prep (purchased through GolfWorks). The shafts are for a set of Ping ISI irons that do not have ferrules.

 

Were they const weight taper tip or parallel single length blanks? 

 

If they were taper tip shafts version - steelfibers are already pre-prepped coming out of the factory ~1.5"   There really wasn't any need for golfworks to do anything to them and the prepped section would probably be showing  regardless of what golfworks might have done.

 

What's the bore depth on the irons?   If a full 1/2" of prep is showing - that seems like more than I'd expect from a set of Pings.  1/4" of prep showing is more what I might normally expect if the tips were prepped a full 1.5".   Are you sure the hosels got cleaned out completely?  Or you're getting full insertion depth with the shaft?   Ping's do have a very atypical hosel taper shape.  Steel shafts actually need to be rammed into the hosel to get full insertion and graphite shafts tend to need a bit of extra shaping beyond the typical taper to get all the way down.

 

 

14 hours ago, Coppertop1880 said:

So here's the $20 question. If I use these shafts with the ISI irons and have sanded areas exposed, will that impact the durability of the shafts?

 

Not at all.  It's 100% aesthetic.   But the quality of the glue joint could be compromised if you're not getting full insertion of the shaft into the hosel.

 

Edited March 17 by Stuart_G

[AmateurAmateur]

Agree with Stuart. Have only ever seen pre-prepped shafts in the True Temper warehouse whenever I’m there, so golfworks charging you for it is strange, however I have noticed that the factory prepping is higher than what I’d do myself. Usually a non issue as I always use a ferrule but if you don’t use a ferrule I can see why it’s an issue. 

[Coppertop1880]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Were they const weight taper tip or parallel single length blanks? 

 

If they were taper tip shafts version - steelfibers are already pre-prepped coming out of the factory ~1.5"   There really wasn't any need for golfworks to do anything to them and the prepped section would probably be showing  regardless of what golfworks might have done.

 

What's the bore depth on the irons?   If a full 1/2" of prep is showing - that seems like more than I'd expect from a set of Pings.  1/4" of prep showing is more what I might normally expect if the tips were prepped a full 1.5".   Are you sure the hosels got cleaned out completely?  Or you're getting full insertion depth with the shaft?   Ping's do have a very atypical hosel taper shape.  Steel shafts actually need to be rammed into the hosel to get full insertion and graphite shafts tend to need a bit of extra shaping beyond the typical taper to get all the way down.

 

 

They are tapered tip. If they came from the factory prepped, then I have another question for Golfworks. 

Bore depth is 1" and yes, I'm seating the shaft fulling into the hosel. 

 

Whatever the outcome, lesson learned. Don't take shortcuts and do the work yourself when you can.

Should have just prepped the tips myself. 

[st1800e]

10 minutes ago, Coppertop1880 said:

 

They are tapered tip. If they came from the factory prepped, then I have another question for Golfworks. 

Bore depth is 1" and yes, I'm seating the shaft fulling into the hosel. 

 

Whatever the outcome, lesson learned. Don't take shortcuts and do the work yourself when you can.

Should have just prepped the tips myself. 

First I’ve never used any steelifiber shafts.  Having said that and based on the comments:

 

Since these are taper tip, as stated they come from the factory pre prepped.  Don’t know what the length of the pre prep is, but other taper shafts I’ve had and seen have maybe ~ 3/4 “ prep.  Either the SF comes with more prep than that or maybe GW did additional prep at your request, and didn’t see or ignored your note indicating these were for ISI irons.  If the former then I don’t see a fix, other than returning them and find a different shaft.   If the latter then GW should make this good with a replacement set of shafts without additional prep.  

Either way I’d take it up with GW.  

 

Does anyone know the length of the prep on SF from the factory? 
 

p.s.  Maybe you know this , installing shafts in ISI requires pounding the shaft in as there’s a reduced diameter at the bottom of the hosel , this locks the shaft in, but that will only get you about 3/16” additional insertion.  

[Stuart_G]

 

13 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Don’t know what the length of the pre prep is,

 

Does anyone know the length of the prep on SF from the factory?

 

 

1.5"  (just double checked on a blank in the basement).

 

38 minutes ago, Coppertop1880 said:

Whatever the outcome, lesson learned. Don't take shortcuts and do the work yourself when you can.

Should have just prepped the tips myself. 

 

It wouldn't have made any difference (other than avoiding the added cost).   There is nothing golfworks could have done (or not done) to avoid the problem.

 

Only real way to avoid the prep showing with these shafts in this case (1" hosel depth and no ferrule) would be to tip 1/2" and then soft step to compensate for the tipping.   That also means manually reshaping the tip - not difficult but it can be a bit time consuming.

Edited March 17 by Stuart_G

[st1800e]

Just now, Stuart_G said:

Only real way to avoid the prep showing with these shafts in this case (1" hosel depth and no ferrule)  would be to tip 1/2" and then soft step to compensate for the tipping.

Would the additional tipping of the shaft then fully insert in the hosel?  Having recently shafted a set of ISI’s I’m thinking not.  And if not, would any additional prep to make them fit compromise the steel layer in the tip?  

[Stuart_G]

1 minute ago, st1800e said:

Would the additional tipping of the shaft then fully insert in the hosel?  Having recently shafted a set of ISI’s I’m thinking not.

 

I added a bit more to my post.

 

6 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

   That also means manually reshaping the tip - not difficult but it can be a bit time consuming.

 

If done properly, that's actually a benefit with Pings since you can get a much better fit when manually shaped because of the non-standard hosel taper shape.  The original "standard" taper is actually a pretty poor fit in Ping hosels.  The few times I've worked with ping irons, I'll do that manual shaping anyways.

 

 

2 minutes ago, st1800e said:

would any additional prep to make them fit compromise the steel layer in the tip?  

 

No, not at all.  There are a lot of misconceptions about the steel mesh in those shafts.  Too many people get (unnecessarily) overcautious about that steel mesh.   The steel mesh is not really structural - it's all about weight distribution, not strength.  It moves more weight to the outside radius of the shaft wall.   If all they wanted was strength, they would have stuck with just using graphite.   Plus, anything inside the hosel is effectively reinforced by being glued to the steel hosel anyways.

[st1800e]

6 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

If done properly, that's actually a benefit with Pings since you can get a much better fit when manually shaped because of the non-standard hosel taper shape.  The original "standard" taper is actually a pretty poor fit in Ping hosels.  The few times I've worked with ping irons, I'll do that manual shaping anyways.

Not sure your of your references to the ping hosels, the isi hosel is not the more recent “too big bore”. The  ISI and some other pings pre big bore require pounding in the shaft to lock it in, a design feature.  Narrowing the tip to avoid having to pound it in would seem to be avoiding the design feature. 
Or have I missed your point altogether? 

[Stuart_G]

19 hours ago, st1800e said:

Not sure your of your references to the ping hosels, the isi hosel is not the more recent “too big bore”. The  ISI and some other pings pre big bore require pounding in the shaft to lock it in, a design feature.  Narrowing the tip to avoid having to pound it in would seem to be avoiding the design feature. 
Or have I missed your point altogether? 

 

I've no experience with the ISI's.  The first Ping heads I worked with were the i5's.

 

But to the question of "avoiding the design feature" - Epoxy is much better today then it used to be and graphite behaves very different from steel under compression.   The interference fit is not needed nor does it provide any advantage at all.   The better the shape of the tip matches the shape of the hosel, the stronger the glue joint will be.

 

Based on the practices of all the other OEM's - personally I'd question whether it ever provided any benefit.   Karsten had a lot of "unique" ideas over his career - and while many of them were good and progressive - that doesn't mean all of them had any real merit behind them.

 

Edited March 18 by Stuart_G

[Coppertop1880]

Just to offer an update to things, I called GolfWorks this morning. Explained that the prepping was a half-inch too much. 

They asked if the shafts were for the Ping ISI irons and I said that was correct. Then I was told that the extra prepping was for a ferrule.

 

I explained that the ISI irons did not have ferrules and was put on hold while they consulted someone in tech services. 

A few minutes later they said they would send me a return label and get the correct shafts out to me. They explained the person doing the prepping simply sanded out the space for a ferrule without being familiar with ISI irons.

 

GolfWorks did confirm that the steelfiber shafts they receive are not prepped by the manufacturer/supplier. Not sure if that's standard or unique to GolfWorks.

 

Sucks that I've got to wait another week to get replacement shafts but nice to see GolfWorks making things right. I'm also glad to have a couple of backup sets of irons that I can take to the course while I wait.

 

As always, I appreciate the insight.

[Stuart_G]

6 minutes ago, Coppertop1880 said:

GolfWorks did confirm that the steelfiber shafts they receive are not prepped by the manufacturer/supplier. Not sure if that's standard or unique to GolfWorks.

 

That's very interesting - especially considering that all the steelfiber shafts that I got factory prepped came from golfworks.  And no golfworks themselves didn't do the prep work.   So if they have access to unprepped steelfibers, they are not selling them as part of a normal order when no prep is requested.

 

Edited March 18 by Stuart_G

[Coppertop1880]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

That's very interesting - especially considering that all the steelfiber shafts that I got factory prepped came from golfworks.  And no golfworks themselves didn't do the prep work.   So if they have access to unprepped steelfibers, they are not selling them as part of a normal order when no prep is requested.

 

May be a difference in .370 and .355 shafts.

Just dropped off the return shafts at FedEx so we'll know if they told me correctly in a week to ten days.

[Stuart_G]

4 minutes ago, Coppertop1880 said:

May be a difference in .370 and .355 shafts.

Just dropped off the return shafts at FedEx so we'll know if they told me correctly in a week to ten days.

 

I thought you said it was taper tip you ordered?   That's the type I was referring to in my experiences as well.  

 

Now they might have been talking about parallel tip shafts when they said the ones they got were not factory prepped.   There is no point doing factory pre-prep on a single length blank that will most likely need to be tip trimmed.  Just make sure the ones you get as a replacement really are taper tip (CW) shafts.

 

Edited March 18 by Stuart_G

[Coppertop1880]

22 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I thought you said it was taper tip you ordered?   That's the type I was referring to in my experiences as well.  

 

Now they might have been talking about parallel tip shafts when they said the ones they got were not factory prepped.   There is no point doing factory pre-prep on a single length blank that will most likely need to be tip trimmed.  Just make sure the ones you get as a replacement really are taper tip (CW) shafts.

 

I did.

.355 tapered tips.

 

Whatever the case is, I can only share what I was told. If what I get is different, I'll be shipping them back for a refund and return to the UST Recoil shafts. Got a new set of ISI irons and went with steel fiber this time to try something different and possibly stronger than the Recoil. Hind sight being 50/50, might not have tried switching.

[Coppertop1880]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:50 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

That's very interesting - especially considering that all the steelfiber shafts that I got factory prepped came from golfworks.  And no golfworks themselves didn't do the prep work.   So if they have access to unprepped steelfibers, they are not selling them as part of a normal order when no prep is requested.

 

 

Ends up you are right. Steel Fiber shafts do come prepped from the factory at a 1.5" length. After not seeing a shipping notice on the replacement shafts, I called GolfWorks. It took two days worth of calls to have someone admit that they didn't prep the tips and that is how the factory ships them. 

 

They had no answer for me when I asked why this wasn't listed on the website or why did they charge me for tip prep beyond apologies for the inconvenience. They did say that someone was supposed to have called me but couldn't explain why that didn't happen. They also couldn't explain why all this wasn't pointed out when I first called to return the shafts. The whole exchange makes me think GolfWorks is staffed with a bunch of idiots who have no clue about golf or club building.

 

No offers to make things right beyond exchanging the shafts with UST Mamiya Darts. I don't them not to prep the shafts and get them shipped today. Not sure if they are going to refund me the prepping service fees but at this point, I don't care. Just not sure I will do business with GolfWorks anytime soon. Any recommendations on an alternative?

 

Appreciate the insights.