Lost ball and/or ball out of bounds

[KevCarter]

OK, how would you guys rewrite the 2 rules, lost ball and OB? Let's start with lost ball. What would be fair and save time? Using the 4 shot penalty idea, where do you drop? Do you really feel a lost ball should warrant a 4 shot penalty?

 

Kevin

[xan_user]

OK, how would you guys rewrite the 2 rules, lost ball and OB? Let's start with lost ball. What would be fair and save time? Using the 4 shot penalty idea, where do you drop? Do you really feel a lost ball should warrant a 4 shot penalty?

 

Kevin

 

3 strokes?

 

Drop is same as water hazard rule but one extra stroke for failing to play a provisional.

 

 

****************

 

 

Do you think if pros had to find their own balls in tourneys, without help of a team of spotters and spectators this rule would remain unchanged?

 

Maybe any different rules should only be for rounds played without the benefit of spotters.

[KevCarter]

OK, how would you guys rewrite the 2 rules, lost ball and OB? Let's start with lost ball. What would be fair and save time? Using the 4 shot penalty idea, where do you drop? Do you really feel a lost ball should warrant a 4 shot penalty?

 

Kevin

 

3 strokes?

 

Drop is same as water hazard rule but one extra stroke for failing to play a provisional.

 

 

****************

 

 

Do you think if pros had to find their own balls in tourneys, without help of a team of spotters and spectators this rule would remain unchanged?

 

Maybe any different rules should only be for rounds played without the benefit of spotters.

 

How do you determine where to drop it? There are no lines as there are with hazards to determine where to drop from. You need to define how to pick a spot and what your options for dropping are. Do you think golfers are going to appreciate a 3 shot penalty?

 

Kevin

[xan_user]

OK, how would you guys rewrite the 2 rules, lost ball and OB? Let's start with lost ball. What would be fair and save time? Using the 4 shot penalty idea, where do you drop? Do you really feel a lost ball should warrant a 4 shot penalty?

 

Kevin

 

3 strokes?

 

Drop is same as water hazard rule but one extra stroke for failing to play a provisional.

 

 

****************

 

 

Do you think if pros had to find their own balls in tourneys, without help of a team of spotters and spectators this rule would remain unchanged?

 

Maybe any different rules should only be for rounds played without the benefit of spotters.

 

How do you determine where to drop it? There are no lines as there are with hazards to determine where to drop from. You need to define how to pick a spot and what your options for dropping are. Do you think golfers are going to appreciate a 3 shot penalty?

 

Kevin

 

I think any thing less than 3 strokes might encourage abuse.

 

Not looking to eliminate the provisional, I just would like to see a rule added that helps speed up play when a ball is lost or unidentifiable and unplayable.

 

Drop would be along the line of ball flight where last seen.

[KevCarter]

I think any thing less than 3 strokes might encourage abuse.

 

Not looking to eliminate the provisional, I just would like to see a rule added that helps speed up play when a ball is lost or unidentifiable and unplayable.

 

Drop would be along the line of ball flight where last seen.

 

I just spent 10 minutes writing a condescending answer, Instead, I'll just let your idea stand on it's own.

 

I post on this rules forum in an attempt to better learn the rules through the questions of others, and hopefully help others along the way. I should not have let myself get into a debate over opinion as to whether a rule is right or wrong. All it does is confuse everybody further.

 

Back to my original answer, please see rule 27.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

[golfortennis]

Either I've not played enough courses with marshals doing their jobs, or have not been caught in a slow play situation often enough, but if there are seriously courses where the marshals flip out about provisionals, that is ridiculous. I suppose you can't really police the difference between provisionals(someone ostensibly playing by the rules), and mulligans(the complete opposite), but still.

 

If they're that worried about slow play, get rid of the carts and the beer first.

[777twist]

I just spent 10 minutes writing a condescending answer, Instead, I'll just let your idea stand on it's own.

 

I post on this rules forum in an attempt to better learn the rules through the questions of others, and hopefully help others along the way. I should not have let myself get into a debate over opinion as to whether a rule is right or wrong. All it does is confuse everybody further.

 

Back to my original answer, please see rule 27.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

 

 

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem! hehe Just, kidding.

 

But seriously, you say it's easy to follow the rule...the only way it's easy is to hit provisionals anytime you can't see your ball...which could be 1/2 your shots of the day. And that will no doubt slow play, I can hit lots of shots quickly, but it's finding all those shots. Like yesterday, I hit one that was heading toward the road, so I hit a provisional, and that one sure as hell went to the road, so I hit again...perfect, straight down the middle. But I go look for my first ball and provisionals (mind you, I'm playing by myself), I find my first ball in play, but I don't have a shot at the green, so I'm going to bail out, but I don't remember what ball my 2nd provisional was, so I have to go pick that up first, otherwise, I might end up playing the wrong ball. I also wanted to find my 1st provisional (the one that went to the road for sure) but I coulnd't find it. Then I saw some guys on the tee, so I gave up on my 1st provisional, picked up my 2nd and hit my layup with my original ball. Now, if I was in a foursome and even 1/2 the group had to do this on every hole, man-oh-man...that would be some serious time.

 

Basically, I'm going under this... I'm hitting provisionals virtually anytime I think my ball will be hard to find or if I can't see it. For those times when my ball plugs deep into the ground and I can't find it...I just don't know Kevin says serious breach occurs with the 4 stroke penalty, but I also 99% of the time can't go back to the tee because my courses always have tons of people on them.

 

As your (Kevin) "where do you drop" ...well, there are very few hazards on my muni courses that are marked well. OB is actually the only thing that is marked. As for LOST balls, how is it any different than "guessing where you ball goes into a water hazard."

 

My personal thought is this...

 

You hit OB, but your ball is hittable... then take the LOST/OB stroke, and add one for the distance penalty. Because I don't know about you all, but there are plenty of times when these courses have the OB stakes in a way where it's like "why, there is plent of room beyond the stakes?" As for LOST balls, then you just play it like the ground in that area is a hazard and swallowed your ball...so drop in that area. But if you need to drop you take another stroke for a total of 3 penalties. If that's not enough, then I'm fine with 3 and 4 strokes.

 

But my point, there should be rules that govern these situations and should be fair to everyone, not just tournament players. Or, maybe the rules of golf should take out SLOW PLAY and not allow local course to set a slow play rule...actually, that would fix everything!

[777twist]

BTW, I'm very new to golf like I said, and the US Open was the first tournament I have ever watched. And that course didn't seem like it had one OB. Everything, even Rocco's shot way off line was still somehow playable. And beyond that, these "Pro's" had all kinds of drop zones. How fair is that? Granted, they have to play with grandstands and camera stuff on the course...but hello, they can see those, if they hit into them, to me, that should be too bad so sad. IT'S A HUGE GRANDSTAND! How did you not see it. But they get a free drop. Now, we are playing with a small group with no audience and we lose a ball (some times just off the fairway in deep rough) and we are screwed for the rest of the day because supposedly there is no rule that govern's this without going back and hitting again.

 

There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. I think the LOST/OB rule's spirit is not being applied.

[KevCarter]

I just spent 10 minutes writing a condescending answer, Instead, I'll just let your idea stand on it's own.

 

I post on this rules forum in an attempt to better learn the rules through the questions of others, and hopefully help others along the way. I should not have let myself get into a debate over opinion as to whether a rule is right or wrong. All it does is confuse everybody further.

 

Back to my original answer, please see rule 27.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

 

 

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem! hehe Just, kidding.

 

But seriously, you say it's easy to follow the rule...the only way it's easy is to hit provisionals anytime you can't see your ball...which could be 1/2 your shots of the day. And that will no doubt slow play, I can hit lots of shots quickly, but it's finding all those shots. Like yesterday, I hit one that was heading toward the road, so I hit a provisional, and that one sure as hell went to the road, so I hit again...perfect, straight down the middle. But I go look for my first ball and provisionals (mind you, I'm playing by myself), I find my first ball in play, but I don't have a shot at the green, so I'm going to bail out, but I don't remember what ball my 2nd provisional was, so I have to go pick that up first, otherwise, I might end up playing the wrong ball. I also wanted to find my 1st provisional (the one that went to the road for sure) but I coulnd't find it. Then I saw some guys on the tee, so I gave up on my 1st provisional, picked up my 2nd and hit my layup with my original ball. Now, if I was in a foursome and even 1/2 the group had to do this on every hole, man-oh-man...that would be some serious time.

 

Basically, I'm going under this... I'm hitting provisionals virtually anytime I think my ball will be hard to find or if I can't see it. For those times when my ball plugs deep into the ground and I can't find it...I just don't know Kevin says serious breach occurs with the 4 stroke penalty, but I also 99% of the time can't go back to the tee because my courses always have tons of people on them.

 

As your (Kevin) "where do you drop" ...well, there are very few hazards on my muni courses that are marked well. OB is actually the only thing that is marked. As for LOST balls, how is it any different than "guessing where you ball goes into a water hazard."

 

My personal thought is this...

 

You hit OB, but your ball is hittable... then take the LOST/OB stroke, and add one for the distance penalty. Because I don't know about you all, but there are plenty of times when these courses have the OB stakes in a way where it's like "why, there is plent of room beyond the stakes?" As for LOST balls, then you just play it like the ground in that area is a hazard and swallowed your ball...so drop in that area. But if you need to drop you take another stroke for a total of 3 penalties. If that's not enough, then I'm fine with 3 and 4 strokes.

 

But my point, there should be rules that govern these situations and should be fair to everyone, not just tournament players. Or, maybe the rules of golf should take out SLOW PLAY and not allow local course to set a slow play rule...actually, that would fix everything!

 

 

777, Good luck with that.

[Blues Golfer]

Whoa there, pardner. :man_in_love:

 

I'm not making this up, this is in the Official Rules of Golf, not something I dreamed up.

 

Either you take stroke and distance, slow play be darned

 

OR you take an X,

 

OR you follow the stroke and distance AND wrong place, take your strokes and suffer,

 

OR you DQ for not playing by the rules.

 

Doing what you propose is a penalty for you, and if I agree to let you, a penalty for me.

 

This discussion was about following the rules, not playing Calvinball :clapping:

 

 

I know what you are saying, but many of the rules in the rules of golf involve "INTENT" and it's my personal belief that the rules at least with regards to OB in a casual round is unfair. My intent is to compromise and come up with something that would be fair for those of us not fortunate enough to have fore caddies or a bunch of people watching our shots throughout the fairway. I mean, is it really fair for these "pros" to have those advantages and we weekend golfers don't. We are penalized for not having a bunch of people around watching our balls.

 

I do agree, that if we aren't playing exactly by the rules all our scores should have an asterix. But no one can tell me that it's fair to say we HAVE TO GO BACK AND HIT AGAIN holding up the group behind us (who will no doubt pressure you for the rest of the round, if they don't just call player assistant) or taking a 4 stroke penalty everytime we end up with a LOST ball (I say LOST, since OB most likely will be easier for most of us to see and we would hit provisionals).

 

It's about equity, and this rule just benefits the Pro's way too much and creates what one person said as bloated scores that ESC will eleminate anyway. Personally, I think the USGA has to look at this rule and make some sort of change.

 

And let me say something about the "safety" aspect these OB markers are supposed to create. I personally think they make it less safe. Like there is this one hole that a buddy of mine hits at least 2 provisionals each time he plays it...sometimes 3 or ...whoa! even 4. And each time he does that his ball is heading toward the street where a car or person could get hit. So although they may think OB helps keep things safe, I think it really has the opposite affect.

 

But until things are changed, I will make sure to tell everyone my score is always with an asterix. Which from 99 percent of the people I have ever played with can say the same. I mean, come on, at least I'm taking some extra penalties, most just drop and take the one stroke!

 

Twist

Twist, do you know how many sub-80 rounds I've watched disintegrate in the airwake of a screaming tee shot that I watched, almost through tears, go out of bounds? The home course I grew up on STARTED with a 420 yard par 4, with 14 feet of rough on the left, and OB at the 15th foot. And I play a natural draw. It was probably the toughest starting hole in the state. Countless rounds were killed ON THE FIRST SWING.

 

Unfair? It's worse than unfair. It's a form of sadism.

 

It is the ultimate penalty. I can think of no penalty in sports as severe. You can be standing on the 18 tee and go from 70 to 74 in the time it takes for the ball to hit the ground. And then you have to hit a second one into play.

 

I play with strangers all the time...rarely does someone actually play a provisional. It's more common for people to just take a mulligan. I don't care. Play the game how you want.

 

My reason for playing by the book is simple. I shot 78 on a course I've never seen before, just two weeks ago. On the front nine, I hit a second shot out of bounds from the fairway, going for a par five in two. I took my drop, and ended the hole with a 15 foot putt to save bogey.

 

Eat that, Hades.

[gdeep]

Although I agree with those who say you can't pick and choose the rules you play by. But in a casual round, the argument is probably moot. Since you're probably making double bogey or worse, the handicap computer is going to adjust your score accordingly.

[777twist]

Unfair? It's worse than unfair. It's a form of sadism.

 

It is the ultimate penalty. I can think of no penalty in sports as severe. You can be standing on the 18 tee and go from 70 to 74 in the time it takes for the ball to hit the ground. And then you have to hit a second one into play.

 

I play with strangers all the time...rarely does someone actually play a provisional. It's more common for people to just take a mulligan. I don't care. Play the game how you want.

 

 

I don't have a problem with the penalty in and of itself... it's the fact that it's probably the only rule in the book that is practically impossible to stay true to on the course unless you are playing in a tournament. Sure if I see my ball heading toward the OB stakes, I will hit a provisional, but what about those times you end up in the deep rough and know your ball is in bounds, but can't find it???

 

Like, this one time, I totally came under the ball and popped it straight up in the air about 40 yards and it came down just left of the fairway. Well, when I got over their, it was very wet and none of the four of us could find the ball. Now, I actually could have gone back and hit again in this instance as it wasn't that far. But the group behind us was carting over and it would have meant my group to clear the way as well. My point is, there is just no rule to account for non-tournament play. And all this provisional stuff adds time. And that is the only rule you can apply to a LOST/OB ball...you have to hit a provisional. There was talk of a 4 stroke penalty, but even that as I think Kev pointed out could be serious breach of the rules.

 

Why the USGA can't modify the rule so us playing on the weekend at full golf courses can't do so without having to slow up play.

 

I made a suggestion before, but it can be modified to be worse... But I still think it's a step in the right direction. The idea of any rule is to be fair and equitable...even though there are some pompous people who don't think the rules should change (although they change all the time).

 

My modified suggestion:

 

Hit the ball OB, but it's playable: 1 stroke for Lost/OB, 2 strokes for distance = 3 penalty strokes.

 

Hit the ball OB or LOST requiring drop: 1 stroke for Lost/OB, 2 strokes for distance, and 1 stroke for having to drop = 4 penalty strokes.

 

The only contentious issue could be the "area of the lost ball" and where to drop. But my thought would be to drop within two club lengths of the nearest OB marker, hazard marker or what would be considered the defining line of the hole.

 

Now, this really doesn't alter the way the Pro's would play this...they are still going to go back to where they last hit and hit again if they can't find their original ball. But for us weekend golfers who don't have those advantages, it allows us to score our round accurately and should help speed up play.

 

Now if I walk 200 yards to my ball and can't find it...I don't have to waste the time walking back and hitting again...I can just take the 4 stroke penalty and know I'm playing proper golf by the rules.