"advance clubs" for the "not-so-advance" player?

[hermes]

what do ya think?

what up fellow golfers! so i was in the shop and i overheard a sales guy telling one of the customers that they would benefit more in buying more advance clubs (i beleive harder to hit clubs as oppose to game improvements clubs). it got me scratching my head and thinking and rethinking..........is this true?

just want to know what everyone's though on this is.

should the higher handicap player buy more advance or harder to hit clubs as oppose to very forgiving game improvement clubs? is this why he said.... "that way, the player would know how to swing from a more advance set then g.i. set and in return, player would know how to swing correctly? " WHAT!! :cheesy:

holla! let me know if im not making any sense!

[dtwainright]

I will agree with that one...but that's just my .02 cents....That's the way I decided to go about learning to strike the ball better.

 

My irons aren't true blades but they are not g.i. clubs either. They have taught me to focus on my swing rather than just hitting at the ball. I have definitely improved since getting them and I couldn't go back to irons with a thick top line and more offset.

 

I am also getting more distance and better ball flight from these irons because I hit the ball that much better…now, I didn’t say I hit the ball well all the time…but I get better feedback (ie: “feel”) from my clubs so I know when I miss hit a ball.

 

Good luck in your search!

Regards,

Tyler

[HeadonaStick]

Some people believe that if you have more difficult to hit clubs you will improve more quickly.

 

I disagree to a degree.

 

You have to have proper instruction, or you will simply hit any club incorrectly - at least with game improvement clubs you will enjoy the game more.

 

If you are learning a proper swing, you may get more feedback from player's clubs which might decrease the amount of time it takes you to groove a good swing. If you are practicing a proper swing to begin with.

 

I am of the opinion that if I strike the ball poorly I don't need the added insult of feeling like I'm hanging onto a beehive - I can tell it was a poor strike by looking at the ball flight, and I can usually tell exactly what I did wrong too.

 

Finally, remember that every swing is different, and some of the best players in the world play with cavity backs and hybrids. Not all swings respond well to blades, and some very good, repeatable swings need low centers of gravity etc. to reach their full potential.

 

I say get some instruction and buy what works for you based on suggestions from a pro who understands your swing.

 

Just my humble opinion though. Take it for what its worth. :cheesy:

[gjones77]

I'd have to say yes and no...

 

Reason being, there are those golfers who actively WANT to get better, so using more player based equipment may help since it's a bit more punishing on mishits and will help to force you to swing better and make better contact.

 

Now, the reason I say no is that there are guys that really don't care if they get better or not, the usual weekend golfer who just plays for fun, they would be better off with game improvement type of equipment since they have no intentions of making the US Open or anything, they just want to have a good time with their buiddies.

 

So I feel that it's not really good for everyone to go and try and play a 13* tour spoon V-Steel 3 wood, on the other hand not everyone wants to play a 17* 3 wood...

 

As always, with golf, it's a very person to person decision

[hayam]

If you want some Advanced design , yet is a game improvement, Try Golfworks M-45...

 

That is an amazing design. Looks like player,, but very forgiving. I personally use them when my swing is off . The price is fantastic too.

 

Actually MX=23 u have is a very good design too. I know a couple of single handicapper who uses them in my club.

 

I think it differs from people to people, if less forgiving means better swing. Some works well with shovels . But as a general guide. How much time you have to play golf? The less time, the more forgiving set will benifit your score. Thats how i think.

 

Also, there is just preference... Some are great with shovels, some just cant stand it ... Its also how you approach the game. Thats why there is such thing as a forgiving "players" iron.

 

Edit : btw,, i think that the best game improvement is go to a great clubfitter an get fitted. period

[Huskypride28]

This has been and will be debated about for years. I think it all depends on your game. If you are just a weekend hacker (20+ hcp) playing with your buddies for fun, then GI's will be better suited for you. No need to make it any harder than it is. However, if you are a 15-20 hcp and are seriously working hard at your game by taking lessons and practicing, then a player's iron could be beneficial. Having advanced clubs would force you to make the right swing and strike the ball the way it should be, but be prepared to get frustrated. I'ts kind of the 1 step backwards to go 2 steps forward approach. Your game will suffer for a while but with the proper instruction, hitting an advanced club will force you to strike the ball properly and your game will ultimately improve. Instruction is the key though. Simply buying a set of player's irons and whacking away at them won't get you any better. Most likely your ball striking won't be accurate which will only decrease your confidence and add more frustration.

[hermes]

oh.....by all means i'm not looking to totally change my set........although i might look into changing irons before the season starts here (not gettin' rid of the 23s anytime soon......but my main concern was purchasing a less forgiving set of irons for the higher handicapper so the higher handicapper can improve on their swing and game. even for the weekend hackers........they would love to enjoy the game and be able to play with the big bois one day.

[abewley]

i would say... yes.. only if the person could get instruction and practice the instruction ALL THE TIME.

 

I believe if you are a patient person and one who doens't get easily frustrated, blades are the best way to learn the game from the start.

 

people who rarely practice.. stick with GI irons.

 

however... it is my opinion that irons play a single part of the game of golf....

 

drivers, wedges and putters are where the better scoring comes from. I would start working like crazy with my sandwedge first and fore most. once the sw is being struck very well. Then and only then will a person be able to strike the ball with the irons properly...

 

the irons are to get to the green. period. so might as well make that part easy as possible... and the best way to do that is to hit them straight.. and the best way to do that is with GI irons.

 

the mx-23's are a great iron and until you get good enuff with those.. i wouldn't worry about and "players" club.

 

I live and die on the course with my driver... If i am able to get the ball in a playable position off tee then i have a 75% of making par. if i miss a green i know my wedge play will get me somewhat close. for me a two put is just the same as a wedge and a one put.

 

so for me again, get a forgiving driver.. forgiving irons... a very good set of wedges and a great putter .... and practice the short game and the driver.

[hermes]

abewley, thanks for the great advise......i wish i would have gone over and talked with the customer after the sales guy left.........i wanted to tell him something.....

 

but again, thanks for the advice and for the confidence in my current setup. i agree, irons are only part of the game......i beleive too many peoole overlook the drivers, wedges, and the single most used club in da bag, the putter.

 

holla!

[Gxgolfer]

Basically recapping everyone else,

 

There are Blades and then there are Cavity Backs. Alot of pros still use CBs and with todays designs, they don't lose much if any workability. Lessons to groove a swing and equipment that fits for your time, money and budget. Golf is hard enough, it supposed to fun. :) :cheesy:

[Konklifer]

Abewley is right. I'm sure we've all played with many golfers of varying skill levels. If you can't put it in the fairway off the tee or chip and putt to save a par here or there it won't matter what irons are in your bag.

[hermes]

ditto that guys.......i know i know....and i appreciate all comments.....but let;s just say that you have a choice of say the nike pro combo tour, tm rac lt and the x18ps.....i know there are many others, but i'm just using these as an example...... for real, most higher handicapper would not think twice about getting either set unless that player want to improve their game with frustration first, correct? in that case, all swings, workability, etc will take into consideration and will be accounted for and the player would learn from that experience and move on.

 

PEOPLE LEARN FROM EXPERIENCE.......but i dont know if i would hold that against golf equipment!

 

holla!

[HeadonaStick]

ditto that guys.......i know i know....and i appreciate all comments.....but let;s just say that you have a choice of say the nike pro combo tour, tm rac lt and the x18ps.....i know there are many others, but i'm just using these as an example...... for real, most higher handicapper would not think twice about getting either set unless that player want to improve their game with frustration first, correct? in that case, all swings, workability, etc will take into consideration and will be accounted for and the player would learn from that experience and move on.

 

PEOPLE LEARN FROM EXPERIENCE.......but i dont know if i would hold that against golf equipment!

 

holla!

I'm not sure. The player would first have to hit each of the sets - for example, the RAC LT's would tend to hit lower than the Cally's for example, so even a low handicapper may have difficulty with the RAC's if he/she tends to hit a low shot anyway.

 

And a higher handicapper might have good luck with the same set of RAC's.

 

The clubs have to fit your swing regardless - get fitted by someone who knows your swing! No two are the same (and be wary of any teacher who has a one size fits all system.) Then you can focus on making certain aspects of your game better. Sure, you may be frustrated at first, but don't compound the problems by buying a set that will never be suited to your game.

 

I don't know what others think, but the advantage to a player's club is that you can manufacture shots - and this is a waste until you can generate a straight shot (or a repeatable shot more accurately.) I feel that a true player's club works against that. For the average player, straight is enough of an issue and is all they want or need to enjoy the game. For the player seeking to get better, you still have to start at the beginning...

[hermes]

ditto that guys.......i know i know....and i appreciate all comments.....but let;s just say that you have a choice of say the nike pro combo tour, tm rac lt and the x18ps.....i know there are many others, but i'm just using these as an example...... for real, most higher handicapper would not think twice about getting either set unless that player want to improve their game with frustration first, correct? in that case, all swings, workability, etc will take into consideration and will be accounted for and the player would learn from that experience and move on.

 

PEOPLE LEARN FROM EXPERIENCE.......but i dont know if i would hold that against golf equipment!

 

holla!

I'm not sure. The player would first have to hit each of the sets - for example, the RAC LT's would tend to hit lower than the Cally's for example, so even a low handicapper may have difficulty with the RAC's if he/she tends to hit a low shot anyway.

 

And a higher handicapper might have good luck with the same set of RAC's.

 

The clubs have to fit your swing regardless - get fitted by someone who knows your swing! No two are the same (and be wary of any teacher who has a one size fits all system.) Then you can focus on making certain aspects of your game better. Sure, you may be frustrated at first, but don't compound the problems by buying a set that will never be suited to your game.

 

I don't know what others think, but the advantage to a player's club is that you can manufacture shots - and this is a waste until you can generate a straight shot (or a repeatable shot more accurately.) I feel that a true player's club works against that. For the average player, straight is enough of an issue and is all they want or need to enjoy the game. For the player seeking to get better, you still have to start at the beginning...

 

speechless.....i actually forgot what i was going to say!........i'm at work and i just answer the phone after i hit the reply button........so i forgot........maybe it will come to me later!

 

but holla!

[abewley]

the answer is rac lt...

 

 

pc tour are too much club... the callys... well no... i can't stand their irons with the exception of the x tours...

[millercg]

I'd have to say yes and no...

 

Reason being, there are those golfers who actively WANT to get better, so using more player based equipment may help since it's a bit more punishing on mishits and will help to force you to swing better and make better contact.

 

Now, the reason I say no is that there are guys that really don't care if they get better or not, the usual weekend golfer who just plays for fun, they would be better off with game improvement type of equipment since they have no intentions of making the US Open or anything, they just want to have a good time with their buiddies.

 

So I feel that it's not really good for everyone to go and try and play a 13* tour spoon V-Steel 3 wood, on the other hand not everyone wants to play a 17* 3 wood...

 

As always, with golf, it's a very person to person decision

 

I agree with you on this... If you're a high handicapper, and are taking lessons, and/or putting in the time on the range and the course to improve, I think the "advanced" clubs are good to have. I found that hitting more of a player's iron at the range helps me hit my G.I. irons on the course even more. If you're not planning on putting in the practice time, most players then benefit from G.I. clubs.

 

:cheesy:

[acraft]

I say he is correct. I started playing golf at 12 with a set of Wilson Staff Progressives. and after that i felt i could hit anything. The problem is with the oversized clubs golfers do not get the feel for miss hits. Go with a players club not a blade maybe but a taylormade lt or call x tour something like that and you will become better instead of playing a sling shot or something like that. just my .03 cents

[rockstar571]

i personally started out with a set of macgreggor vip blades that are older than me. i improved very quickly by necessity (if you've ever hit one you know what i mean) and now every spring i pull out the old mac's and play them for a couple weeks just to get myself into shape.

[hermes]

so there's a mix review on this.........most would think that a players club or more advance club set would help you play the game better, but with that, it comes with frustration. from here, once you learn to correct your swing, etc, the gi club sets with forgivness would be cake to hit and play!

 

keep the post and comments coming guys.....i'm enjoying this.

[RagingAardvark]

Hmm, interesting. I just bought a set of GI irons and a driver. Now yes, I do hit them a little better, but it's not like it's night and day compared to my old set. I can also tell I have been improving with them.

 

However, I also bust out my non-GI 3W and 5W and use those to make sure I'm swinging right. IFI'm falling back into my old habits, those babies slice all over the place.

 

Given my last 2 rounds, the big issue for me isn't my irons or even my driver really, but my short game. Stupid shots dropped from close in.

[hukilau]

I'll reply with some personal experience.

 

By brother-in-law and I (we're great friends) started playing regularly about 5 years ago. We were both weekend hackers - around 20hcps. We started getting more competitive and sought out some new equipment - but neither of us were going to go the route of lessons, we liked the challenge of figuring out swings on our own (I know, I know, it would be faster with lessons, but I like the challenge).

 

Anyway, he states that he's going to do this tradtionally. He goes out and buys a Louisville golf driver (they make classic persimmon clubs) and a set of Cleveland TA1 irons. I go out and buy a TM Firesole driver (what a piece of crap, but easier to hit than persimmon) and Cleveland TA5 irons. I also kept upgrading my equipment - especially the drivers - every year.

 

After 4 years of playing, he's quit golf out of frustration :cheesy: , and I'm down to a 12 hcp.

 

Just one person's experience.

[hermes]

awesome story and experience man..........so you saying that if you get irons to match your skill level, you will eventually lower your hdcp and enjoy the game more. no frustration?

[Noncenx]

If I understand what you were saying initially, it sounds like a salesman was working on increasing the sale, not on what was best for that person.

 

I fit in where many of the others have commented on. When I began about 14 mths ago I had a 15 yr old set of Spaulding clubs, driver thru PW and trying to hit with them was the most frustrating I had ever done. I held off buying a new set thinking I would was just blaming the club. That I was making the mistakes not the club. One afternoon I was in my local shop just looking and got to talking with the owner and telling him why I wasn't ready to buy. He steered me towards a game improvement set, Mizuno MX-17s, and they have made all the difference in the world.

 

They were easier for me to hit which made the game more enjoyable. It made me want to go out more often to play, practice or just swing them in the backyard. I went from 100+ to mid-low 80's in 9 mths with them. But now I'm asking myself do I need to upgrade to continue improving. I want to be able to work my shots and by defination a game improvement iron wants to restrict those tendencies and wants to help you straighten out your shots. I'm looking hard at a set of MP-60s.

 

Do I now regret my decision to get a G.I. set, no way. Because I think if I went with something I could not hit well and enjoy the game I probably would have eventually let it go. My feeling is to buy what you need for now and 6-12 mths down the road. Then if you improve enough to warrant it, get the better set and sell the old one.

[hermes]

If I understand what you were saying initially, it sounds like a salesman was working on increasing the sale, not on what was best for that person.

 

I fit in where many of the others have commented on. When I began about 14 mths ago I had a 15 yr old set of Spaulding clubs, driver thru PW and trying to hit with them was the most frustrating I had ever done. I held off buying a new set thinking I would was just blaming the club. That I was making the mistakes not the club. One afternoon I was in my local shop just looking and got to talking with the owner and telling him why I wasn't ready to buy. He steered me towards a game improvement set, Mizuno MX-17s, and they have made all the difference in the world.

 

They were easier for me to hit which made the game more enjoyable. It made me want to go out more often to play, practice or just swing them in the backyard. I went from 100+ to mid-low 80's in 9 mths with them. But now I'm asking myself do I need to upgrade to continue improving. I want to be able to work my shots and by defination a game improvement iron wants to restrict those tendencies and wants to help you straighten out your shots. I'm looking hard at a set of MP-60s.

 

Do I now regret my decision to get a G.I. set, no way. Because I think if I went with something I could not hit well and enjoy the game I probably would have eventually let it go. My feeling is to buy what you need for now and 6-12 mths down the road. Then if you improve enough to warrant it, get the better set and sell the old one.

 

dude....i feel for you man........see, i started midway through the summer of 2004........and i started playing and tinkering around with a set that was a hand-me-down off-brand (driver, 3 and 5 wood, and 4-pw all in graphite shaft fitted for a SENIOR). so i didn't give much though about buying new clubs.......and i dind't give much though about the set that i have right now..........ended the 2004 season with the hand-me-down set. i then entered the 2005 season with the same set while my friends were buying clubs....and obviously, since we're all beginers, they opt out for some "walmart" brand <--nothing wrong with that if you can hit it). so obviousely, they were hitting the ball better than i was and they seem to enjoy the game. i on the other hand was topping the ball almost all the time. drives couldn't go for sh*t. iron shots couldn't have been more than 10 or so feet off the ground and no where near the pin. so as you can tell, i was frustrated throughout the whole 2005 season and i kept on blaming my swing and approach and not the sticks. so i ended the 2005 season the same way i started it......same old set.

 

i researched more and more into buying golf equipment, right shaft flex, swing, club size, etc and i told myself "that's it.....i'm gonig into 2006 with a new set of sticks" so at the end of the season when everyone was hanging up their equipment and closing in on the season, i bought everything in my bag and my back-up bag. i demoed most of them at the shop (i live in the midwest and it's winter season so i really can't go out to the range) but i'm telling you that i will be ready for the 2006 and i can't wait to give my sticks the real world challenge.

 

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST........

[NGulhar]

Wow -- so let me get this right, Hermes...

 

You bought two bags worth of nice clubs and you haven't hit either on the golf course? No lessons, no experience on the course ... man kid... you should get a basic setup (better than the spalding though) and spend the money on lessons.

 

Forget about that Scotty and all that for now ...

[Grimace45]

I tend to agree to a point, starting out by playing a set of true blades and not practicing will not improve your game. I had played blades my entire life (started at age 5 with a set of MacGregors from the 60's) through high school and college. When I hit the real world and was only able to play on the weekends the blades came out of the bag and the X-12s went in. Over time I began to play more and came to compromise with the X16 pro series. I am not sure that I would have become a good player if I had started with true game improvement irons as a kid, but it was the range time that made me a good player not the clubs. Nothing aggrivates me more than having to play a tournament at my club with a guy that has a set of Mizuno or Titleist blades and has not seen the driving range in a few years. Just my thoughts.

[Amicus]

I was about to buy MP30s a couple of years ago when I ran into a state level amateur in the golf shop. He was buying some game improvement irons and made some comment about Mizunos like he couldn't afford to play them because he invested a lot of $$$ in traveling to tourneys and one bad shot and he might not have a place to play on the weekend. So, I reasoned, if he can't play 'em, I shouldn't either. I bought Cleveland TA7 Tours.

 

This Summer I am probably gonna buy MP60s. I have come to realize that I don't play at that level. In match play with my crew, I'm not gonna have to go home, just fork over $20. Hitting a forged club well is a sublime enjoyment and I want that sensation. I hope the feedback helps me improve as I think it will, but if I'm wrong, I am prepared to accept that and just enjoy the sweet sensation when I can produce it. I am sure I'll be practicing more.

[hermes]

Wow -- so let me get this right, Hermes...

 

You bought two bags worth of nice clubs and you haven't hit either on the golf course? No lessons, no experience on the course ... man kid... you should get a basic setup (better than the spalding though) and spend the money on lessons.

 

Forget about that Scotty and all that for now ...

 

hey......thanks for the compliments.........a friend of mine is the golf coach at a university and he's willing to teach me a few............holla back!

 

i know the course condition will be different from the launch monitor but i feel confident enough with these two set that the same expectations will be awesome on the course as it was on the monitor.......plus i've gone to test these on the monitor at different places soo many times that i feel confident these will hold up the same way on the course! if i'm not making any sense, i ask for your forgivness.......i was up with my sick kid last night and just rolled outta bed and into work!

 

hollla!

[gjones77]

Another issue not brought up is that GI irons tend to have a much lower CG and a high MOI, so if you're a fast/hard swing this could actually steal distance from you because at higher swing speeds you're imparting more backspin on the ball that will cause ballooning.

 

I myself have a pretty high swing speed that's increased in the alst year to 118mph, and I was originally using Adams Idea A1 Pro's and my shots were going high and I lost distance, so I switched to Rac LT2's, a player's cavity back with some forgiveness, but they're workable and my distances are repeatable and consistent from club to club, so they work for me.

 

Like everyone has covered in here, it's really a person to person decision on these things.

[pingman1]

consider PING i5's, get fitted, and you can play them forever. workable and forgiving.